Wild Wild Country - The most insane documentary I've ever seen

[Her Hero Is Gone]

Oh cool, there is a thread. I'm just starting episode 3 of this. So far can I just say that, as weird as the followers of that guru are, this is painting a picture of how entitled and judgemental this bunch of conservative white people are when their majority is threatened. One lady called them evil like twice, presumably for yelling and dancing naked... Not sure what crimes she thought they were committing besides having sex and dressing badly. Having to look at hippies is some unforgivable affront, I guess.

I'm interested to see what happens next now that the spark of violence is there. I was not expecting to find the rajneeshi side more sympathetic so far. I can sense Sheila is a piece of work, but those townspeople are coming off as real cretins.

 

[Deleted member 39214]

binge watched the whole show.... OMG what the fuck is up with America. How can you let some one amass so much power and influence that they can take over a whole town. I have to say this is some of the best TV ive watched in a long time. I asked my mum about it as she was a "hippie" around those times, she said yeah allot of her friends where into Bhagwan but she stayed clear of that shit.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

binge watched the whole show.... OMG what the fuck is up with America. How can you let some one amass so much power and influence that they can take over a whole town. I have to say this is some of the best TV ive watched in a long time. I asked my mum about it as she was a "hippie" around those times, she said yeah allot of her friends where into Bhagwan but she stayed clear of that shit.

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I think it's telling that the only cults that are allowed to persist in america are the ones that successfully amassed power before the modern age. American non-taxation of religion probably doesn't help the situation to this day. The whole bit where

Spoiler

they tried to bring homeless people in to sway the vote was transparently a dubiously legal power grab, and Oregon was well within their discretionary rights to deny those votes. Theres so much wrong about what happened with the homeless people that they kinda just gloss over. It makes their actions later seem a little more justified, when in reality they were pitching a fit about their questionably legal power grab not working out.

 

[Exis]

Ended up finishing all of this in a day, great work. I was kinda shocked I had not heard about this before.
I actually think the meditation regime that the guru made is not that bad, but really anytime anybody goes off to the mountains with a group of people to isolate themselves from the world it never ends up good.

 

[Rellodex]

I had no idea this was about Rajneesh Bhagwan and Rajneeshpuram.

I've never heard anyone in Oregon call him Osho.

Also: nobody really gives a shit about this guy. Sometimes people joke about everyone wearing purple.

 

[Moff]

never heard of this, which is interesting because Sheela apparently lives quite close to me.

Fantastic documentation either way, probably the best netflix original I have seen so far

 

[Her Hero Is Gone]

These people really have no self-awareness. This is a portrait of Trump voter reasoning. It's kind of unsettling. It even has chinless dudes talking about how they love America, clearly envisioning guns and small towns full of white Christians... And now they are talking about trying to make it difficult to vote too...

Oh wow ok that took a sudden turn!

Spoiler

I was totally shocked at the sedatives thing... Like wtf this is a crazy awful idea holy shit

 

[Capra]

Just finished. Excellent series.

Spoiler

Selective editing considered, it feels like most of the people involved here were sacks of shit. The Antelope townsfolk were a bunch of stuck-up white, Christian fucks who pitched a fit and incited a bombing over the unfathomable crime of... having to live next to a bunch of silly, sex-positive nudists. Sheela and the others in charge of the commune started a fucking salmonella outbreak, plotted to assassinate US officials, and drugged innocent homeless people that they brought in themselves in a transparent attempt to shift the polls in their favor. Bhagwan was an old fool who got off on seeing his face everywhere and put the people who had faith in him in jeopardy over his love of shiny things and drugs. The only people who feel remotely blameless here are the cult members and homeless just for sheer lack of control over their situation.

 

[malingenie]

The hero of this story is the white man in the end realizing that

Spoiler

the Christan youth group is just another cult but without the sex

 

[Wamb0wneD]

It's funny. I grew up in Germany and my first day in school ended with me getting seperated from everyone else in my class. Turns out the family my mother and I lived with in the same house were Bhagwan members and we didn't know about it when agreeing to share the rent with those people and the school thought we were members and didn't want me to influence other kids.
Shittiest first school day ever.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

Oh cool, there is a thread. I'm just starting episode 3 of this. So far can I just say that, as weird as the followers of that guru are, this is painting a picture of how entitled and judgemental this bunch of conservative white people are when their majority is threatened. One lady called them evil like twice, presumably for yelling and dancing naked... Not sure what crimes she thought they were committing besides having sex and dressing badly. Having to look at hippies is some unforgivable affront, I guess.

I'm interested to see what happens next now that the spark of violence is there. I was not expecting to find the rajneeshi side more sympathetic so far. I can sense Sheila is a piece of work, but those townspeople are coming off as real cretins.

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The documentary makes it quite clear just why the people were put off by the group. It started with the film of what goes on inside the group, and escalates with the group's actions toward the town in general.

Also assuming them to be conservative just because they're white and from a small town is wildly inappropriate. Oregon swings blue, and the town was said to be a working class (in 1981, likely they would be Democratic) retirement type community. There's nothing to indicate that all people here had issues with the group solely over moral disagreements. Some of the early news footage of the townspeople and their attitude is fairly mild, but skeptical and somewhat welcoming even. It's not until later that they become more angry with the group for what it is that they do to the region.

 

[Lord Brady]

Netflix keeps winning with their original content and their documentaries. Wasn't expecting much of anything in March when I saw the Coming to Netflix list last month, but I got this doc, Take Your Pills, and On My Block, which were all exceptional.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I appreciate that the doc gave an even look at both sides of the conflict, and sure the townspeople were judgmental from the jump (I would be super judgemental too, but not about the sex part) but the fucking nutso cult are clearly the ones at fault and were incredibly shady from the start. C'mon guys.

All the cult members they interview seem like deeply disturbed people too (though some it doesn't become apparent until a few episodes in, like the Australian woman is one of the more chilling of the characters) as you would expect them to be to fall in so deep with this sort of thing.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Ultimately, the forced takeover of any town is a bad idea regardless of whether you were a cult or not. I think theres a lot of winner writing history here and hindsight on display, everything that happened early on is probably being exaggerated by knowing what happened later. This on top of potentially more reasonable people being bought out super colors what actually happened. Thinking the townsfolk bigoted when things were perfectly fine until the cult started rubbing their faces in it is a bit documentary slant at work.

Did I miss that? Was it explained why they had to take over Antelope instead of making their own city?

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Ultimately, the forced takeover of any town is a bad idea regardless of whether you were a cult or not. I think theres a lot of winner writing history here and hindsight on display, everything that happened early on is probably being exaggerated by knowing what happened later. This on top of potentially more reasonable people being bought out super colors what actually happened. Thinking the townsfolk bigoted when things were perfectly fine until the cult started rubbing their faces in it is a bit documentary slant at work.

Did I miss that? Was it explained why they had to take over Antelope instead of making their own city?

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Yeah, seems they couldn't start their own city. Would've been interesting to see how things played out if they could do that.

 

[Enduin]

Ultimately, the forced takeover of any town is a bad idea regardless of whether you were a cult or not. I think theres a lot of winner writing history here and hindsight on display, everything that happened early on is probably being exaggerated by knowing what happened later. This on top of potentially more reasonable people being bought out super colors what actually happened. Thinking the townsfolk bigoted when things were perfectly fine until the cult started rubbing their faces in it is a bit documentary slant at work.

Did I miss that? Was it explained why they had to take over Antelope instead of making their own city?

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The town/county ordinances barred them from setting up certain facilities in their community due to zoning laws. The people of Antelope did not want them to build a city. They seemed mostly fine with some hippie community setting up in the hills as long as they didn't disturb their sleepy, isolated small retirement town, but when they learned they wanted to build a legit city out there in conjunction with already present changes that they brought they opposed them and so the Rajneeshee took over the town to control the council and then eventually control the county to overturn those zoning laws and any further roadblocks that might come their way.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

zoning laws

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Ok, right, now I remember. That was poor planning on their part. Zoning laws are fairly impartial and a basic thing that they clearly knew about as they set things up, they had builders and lawyers on hand so it was no excuse. The first hostile action anyone took was trying to take over the town, and thats on the cult. They could have easily set up anywhere else and they had the money to do it.

Towards the end the cult lawyer got to be way too much, when he indirectly admits to knowing things were illegal and still turns a blind eye to it and says 'they don't have evidence' despite the mountain of stuff the prosecution had.

 

[Nacho]

binge watched the whole show.... OMG what the fuck is up with America. How can you let some one amass so much power and influence that they can take over a whole town. I have to say this is some of the best TV ive watched in a long time. I asked my mum about it as she was a "hippie" around those times, she said yeah allot of her friends where into Bhagwan but she stayed clear of that shit.

Click to shrink...

You'll be surprised to hear then that there are plenty of towns currently ' taken over' by groups in America to this very day.

 

[Moff]

Ok, right, now I remember. That was poor planning on their part. Zoning laws are fairly impartial and a basic thing that they clearly knew about as they set things up, they had builders and lawyers on hand so it was no excuse. The first hostile action anyone took was trying to take over the town, and thats on the cult. They could have easily set up anywhere else and they had the money to do it.

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I don't think that's how it was shown in the documentary, the people from Antilope wanted them gone long before the takeover and then they started looking for ways how they could get rid of them, I also think the zoning was just one of many of their attempts if I remember correctly.
I did not get the impression that the takover of the town was the first hostile action anyone took.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

I don't think that's how it was shown in the documentary, the people from Antilope wanted them gone long before the takeover and then they started looking for ways how they could get rid of them, I also think the zoning was just one of many of their attempts if I remember correctly.
I did not get the impression that the takover of the town was the first hostile action anyone took.

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This would have been a while ago so it might have been different, but zoning laws aren't determined at the city level. That's why they were trying to take over the county. I'm basically proposing that if they hadn't tried to exert control over the city (or the county) nothing would have ever reached violence. The hotel bomb is what people cite as the big thing the non-cult side did to instigate, but that only happened because the cult engaged in an unnecessary hostile takeover of a town. The cult paints it as something that they were perfectly within their rights to do, but that doesn't give them the moral high ground. They created an embattled, unrepresented minority (the townspeople) where there was no need to.

 

[Fancy Clown]

This would have been a while ago so it might have been different, but zoning laws aren't determined at the city level. That's why they were trying to take over the county. I'm basically proposing that if they hadn't tried to exert control over the city (or the county) nothing would have ever reached violence. The hotel bomb is what people cite as the big thing the non-cult side did to instigate, but that only happened because the cult engaged in an unnecessary hostile takeover of a town. The cult paints it as something that they were perfectly within their rights to do, but that doesn't give them the moral high ground. They created an embattled, unrepresented minority (the townspeople) where there was no need to.

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Except wasn't the hotel bombing perpetrated by a dude who had ties to another cult? The townspeople had nothing to do with that. I think the Rajneesh would have found some excuse to arm up anyway even had that not happened.

 

[Enduin]

Zoning laws also can and cannot be enforced. They may be on the books already for years, but they can also be one of those things that no one cares to really enforce until someone starts bothering them, which I think was the case here. But that was more in response to the locals not liking the massive increase in traffic to their town than simply not liking these weird Rajneeshees. They likely would have tried to stop any group that upset their small town life by developing a city right next door.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Zoning laws also can and cannot be enforced. They may be on the books already for years, but they can also be one of those things that no one cares to really enforce until someone starts bothering them, which I think was the case here. But that was more in response to the locals not liking the massive increase in traffic to their town than simply not liking these weird Rajneeshees. They likely would have tried to stop any group that upset their small town life by developing a city right next door.

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Wasn't the zoning angle kicked off by the Nike dude whose problem was specifically with the Rajneesh, or am I misremembering?

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Right, but people are framing it like it justified the cult's actions going forward. The way I see it, regardless of who actually perpetrated the hotel bombing, it wouldn't have happened if the cult hadn't been already grabbing negative attention.

Contrast it with the youth camp that's there now. It's basically the equivalent of a cult, but they're not mounting an insurgency on the local town or county. They're not pretending to be residents when they're largely people from out of state there for extended visits.

 

[Capra]

The cult was grabbing negative attention mainly by virtue of being radically different rather than harmful. That was the angle the documentary seemed to be pushing at least.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

Crazy, never heard about any of this until now, will watch when I get a chance.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

The documentary has a VERY sympathetic angle on the cultists. They didn't have anything objective that showed the cult as grabbing negative attention prior the city council grab.

 

[Loxley]

Just finished the last episode. Putting aside the poisoning, eventual attempted murder and assassination plots, I think what ultimately led to the Rajneeshpuram's downfall was how aggressive and greedy they got. Sheela in particular's gleeful antagonism towards the residents of Antelope certainly didn't help the group gain any favor among the populace. She practically signed the group's death warrant the moment she openly proclaimed they want to take over the local, county, and state government and practically told people who don't like that to go fuck themselves. Were the residents judging the group without knowing a single thing about them? Absolutely. There was a lot of "I don't understand them so I don't trust them" kind of attitudes going around based on the interviews. It definitely played into the stereotype of the small-town white country folk who get scared by anyone who doesn't fit their mold of what is "normal" (ie white and Christian).

But when I think about it - if a religious group came into my small town and suddenly started buying up huge swaths of land and property within a span of months or a couple years, began taking over the local government, renamed the town/streets after their group or messiah, and even started taking over local businesses, yeah, I'd probably freak out a little too. Of course there is no excuse for the vandalism and bombing of the hotel - thankfully none one was killed. If Rajneeshpuram had been slower and more methodical with regards to integrating themselves into the community instead of literally taking it over within a span of a couple of years while Sheela gave the locals the finger every step of the way, there's a decent chance that the group would have had a slightly easier time being accepted. Of course, not poisoning the whole town probably would have helped to :P

I'm amazed that I had never ever heard of this story before, it was utterly fascinating.

 

[Ronabo]

This is the cult that poisoned a local salad bar right?

I remember seeing an episode of Forensic Files or something like that about that case.

 

[YaGaMi]

Can someone give a brief summary what the documentary is about without spoiling it.

 

[LionPride]

Can someone give a brief summary what the documentary is about without spoiling it.

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.............................How tf do you spoil history

 

[YaGaMi]

I don't what to know want happens In detail

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Can someone give a brief summary what the documentary is about without spoiling it.

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It's about a new age cult that builds a city in Oregon and then goes to war with their neighbors. That's the blandest way to describe what actually happened.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Binged the first four episodes. Really enjoying it so far.

I go through waves of sympathy for both "sides". On one hand, xenophobia felt like a major factor, at least early on, for the locals. The show does a good job of showing the appeal of the community (rather than focusing on the leader himself, for better or worse) but then tempering it with the shitty, amoral decisions by the leadership.

Take the homeless recruitment. You really want that plan to work out but I just knew they weren't adequately prepared (no mention of any rehab or mental health facilities). And then it becomes apparent they were just being used...woof.

 

[Emergency & I]

Everyone should watch Paradise Lost.

 

[YaGaMi]

It's about a new age cult that builds a city in Oregon and then goes to war with their neighbors. That's the blandest way to describe what actually happened.

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Thanks for the heads up

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

Lol, all I kept quoting after episode 2 yesterday was "IMMORAL SEX!"

That's what they brought with them. That's what these uptight white folks feared the most was "IMMORAL SEX!".

 

[shaneo632]

.............................How tf do you spoil history

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Ehh, it's presented in a narrative-like format and is legitimately suspenseful. I can appreciate someone not wanting to know the details ahead of time.

 

[Nothus]

Watched the first two eps last night and found it pretty slow tbh. I mean I'll stick with it but that journo calling it the most insane doc he's ever seen?
Unless things pick up the pace later on that seems like hyperbole.

 

[sprsk]

On one hand, the people of Rajneesh were clearly dangerous, on the other hand, the politicians and people who were fighting them we're mostly gross conservatives and tried employing voter suppression to stop them.

It's hard to be sympathetic to either side in this documentary (Haven't finished yet)

 

[Wackamole]

Binged the first four episodes. Really enjoying it so far.

I go through waves of sympathy for both "sides". On one hand, xenophobia felt like a major factor, at least early on, for the locals. The show does a good job of showing the appeal of the community (rather than focusing on the leader himself, for better or worse) but then tempering it with the shitty, amoral decisions by the leadership.
.

Click to shrink...

Yeah the contrast between the conservative town and the commune is big and i could understand both sides to a large degree.
But that Sheela, wow.. she is one of the most badass women i've ever seen. But also really fucking scary in her determination.

I guess these idealistic communes only work when it's not too big and when there isn't that much money involved. People will be people.

Thanx for the heads up OP. This was really interesting to watch for many reasons.

Also: after all these years, the people who lived there still talk about it with so much love and passion.

 

[Landawng]

Man this is so fucking good. Binge watching this, on episode 5

I'm 37 years old and I hadn't heard of this at all. It's fucking mind blowing tbh

 

[MrNewVegas]

Right up my alley. Shocked I never heard of it before.

 

[Spartacris]

I urge anyone that watches this read some Osho. The man said some truly fascinating things. It will make you better understand why people followed him (not that I think anyone should for a cult around him), but it will give you a better understanding of why people felt magnetically attracted to him.

 

[pj-]

It was really a documentary about sheela. Not necessarily a bad thing but I would have liked more on Osho and day to day life on the ranch.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Yeah I agree. The first episode did a good job of hyping up Osho and giving SOME insight to his appeal, but you spend so much time with ex followers who are STILL appreciative and passionate, that I really wanted to see more of his direct appeal and not just what he created.

 

[Deleted member 17210]

There's a Forensic Files episode that focuses on the criminal parts of this. After seeing that, this recent documentary felt like it dragged on too long. It's still fascinating, though.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

On episode 5, I'm not a conspiracy theorist type, but anyone else think the hotel bombing could have been a false flag?

The speed and degree to which sheela ramped up, the fact that no followers were injured, and seeing some broader context on what the lady was capable of, makes me wonder if they ever found who was responsible.

EDIT: Looked it up, Wikipedia has it being accredited to an Islamist militant group, Jamaat ul-Fuqra. Interesting.

 

[eebster]

This is so good. Just finished Episode 2.
Is it bad that I feel completely sympathetic towards the cult? I have no prior knowledge about the story so I don't know what "bad" things they have done, if anything at all, but so far it's just a bunch of people trying to enjoy their lifestyles in peace.
I was going into this show expecting some sort of Jamestown scenario with a psychopathic leader and crazy followers but it's just a bunch of hippies. Although that Baghwan guy seems a bit dubios, but I guess that just goes with being a cult leade, and just generally worshipping a person is really offputting to me, but otherwise they're cool by me.

 

[HellforLeather]

Finished it this weekend and its truly bonkers shit. I do like how its presented from different points of view so it doesnt feel totally one-sided.