DinkyDev

The Movie Critic
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Feb 5, 2021
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It was only about halfway done, but the script David Lynch wrote for the sequel to his 1984 adaptation of Frank Herbert's novel, Dune, was still better than Dune Messiah.
During the two years I spent putting together my book A Masterpiece in Disarray: David Lynch's Dune—An Oral History, I had no luck uncovering Lynch's script for Dune II, despite Frank Herbert telling Prevue magazine in December 1984 that he possessed a copy and was advising Lynch on it. "Now that we speak the same 'language,' it's much easier for both of us to make progress, especially with the screenplays," Herbert told the publication. Then, in July 2023, within the Frank Herbert archives at California State University, Fullerton, I came across a slim folder with a sticky note declaring "Dune Messiah script revisions," addressed to the second floor of VFX man Barry Nolan's office in Burbank where Lynch supervised the final effects shoots and editing on Dune.

Inside the folder lay the stuff of fans' dreams, never made public until now: 56 pages dated "January 2nd-through-9th, 1984," matching Lynch's "half a script" statement. Complete with penned annotations by Herbert, the Dune II script shows Lynch was still enthusiastic about the material, lending new significance to minor details in the '84 film. He also cracked a way to tell the complex story of Herbert's 1969 novel Dune Messiah, easily the least cinematic book in the series due to its emphasis on palace intrigue over action, along with the inner turmoil of a reluctant dictator (Paul Atreides) in place of a traditional hero's journey. It may ring of sacrilege to some, but Lynch's Dune II would have bested Herbert's book—and been one hell of a movie.

While writing this piece I reached out to Lynch for comment, since his Dune II script had never been discussed in detail publicly. He stated, through an assistant, that he "sort of remembers writing something but doesn't recall ever finishing it." As Dune is "a failure in his eyes and not a particular time that he likes to think of or talk about," he politely declined to speak to me.
www.wired.com

I Found David Lynch’s Lost 'Dune II' Script

It was only about halfway done, but the script David Lynch wrote for the sequel to his 1984 adaptation of Frank Herbert's novel, "Dune," was still better than "Dune Messiah."

May be paywalled for some... but you can always quickly select all and copy before it covers everything up for those that want to read what Lynch was writing :)
 

Jedi2016

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Oct 27, 2017
16,334
Neat. I like reading early versions of stuff, usually to see how it changed over production, but in this case as a "what could have been".
 

Ottaro

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Oct 25, 2017
3,572
It may ring of sacrilege to some, but Lynch's Dune II would have bested Herbert's book—and been one hell of a movie.
It's not sacrilege, it's just silly lol. It's literally half of an unfinished script. There's no arc, no conclusion, just an interesting opening. Impossible to make such a comparison.

I mean,
In Herbert's novel, and Denis Villeneuve's 2021 Dune, Paul is reluctant to kick off the holy war to end all holy wars. That's largely missing from Lynch's take.
Come on lol. That's partly what makes Lynch's Dune so boring, and the thought of carrying that same ethos over to Messiah? You're cookin up a cure for insomnia. It just sounds like a continuation of what the first Dune movie was: a visually interesting but narratively dull affair.

Spoilers for Messiah:
What would the point of the movie even be without Paul's torn soul? Just a standard plot about a dictator being betrayed?
In his novel, Herbert demonstrated unrest among the Fremen through conversation; in his script, Lynch laid out opposition to Paul's rule via a more cinematic form: a knife fight. An anonymous Fremen warrior challenges Paul to a duel, but Paul's partner Chani (who would have been played, like she was in Lynch's first film, by Sean Young) says he has to kill her first before getting a stab at Paul. Chani makes short work of this warrior, putting him on the ground with two kicks and a knife to the neck: "If I kill them … the word spreads that even the concubine of Paul kills the strongest of the challengers."
...but doesn't this happen in the book too? Like, almost word for word?

I still would have liked to have seen this just out of curiosity, but I'm not losing sleep over it or anything.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,334
I think that knife fight happens in the first book, doesnt it? So more like something abandoned and reused later than something new or original.

Heck, we might even get that scene in Villenueve's film.
 

anexanhume

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Oct 25, 2017
12,939
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That's a pretty incredible find, especially with Herbert's notes annotated right on the script. Lynch's film was pretty underwhelming when I watched it, but it did deserve a shot at a sequel IMO.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Lynch's Dune, much as I enjoy it for its 80s cheese, is dogshit compared to the book? And the author thinks a half-finished sequel is better than Dune Messiah? What a dumbass.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
63,155
People think it's cool to be a Maverick, it'll make you look dumb overall, but at least you can think to be "cool" with such an opinion.

Lynch's film has a real weird style to it that did work well with some of the stuff going on in Dune. Even stuff like the blocky shields were an interesting way to visualize the concept from the novels. Not that everything about the film works, far from it.
 

Borman

Digital Games Curator at The Strong Museum
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Oct 26, 2017
854
The one thing I dislike about this is the "I found this" bit, as I'm sure the archivist played a larger part in it being findable.
 

orlock

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,286
saw this earlier; incredibly rad as a huge Lynch-head and a casual Dune (book, both movies, dont care about the shows). wish we could've seen a finished script, but theres a ton of classic weird Lynchian stuff that i miss seeing (more of the abjectly surreal and nightmarish mondo weirdo shit like the Scytale sing-along scene talked about in the article).
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,011
Mount Airy, MD
Lynch's film has a real weird style to it that did work well with some of the stuff going on in Dune. Even stuff like the blocky shields were an interesting way to visualize the concept from the novels. Not that everything about the film works, far from it.

It was my first "favorite movie" as a kid, so I'll forever have a soft spot for all its weirdness. If anything, elements of "proper" Dune feel weird to me because they're not like Lynch's version. Blasphemy, I know, but it was cemented in my mind for like a decade before I encountered the book.
 

HStallion

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Oct 25, 2017
63,155
It was my first "favorite movie" as a kid, so I'll forever have a soft spot for all its weirdness. If anything, elements of "proper" Dune feel weird to me because they're not like Lynch's version. Blasphemy, I know, but it was cemented in my mind for like a decade before I encountered the book.

I really like the new Dune film but I won't lie and say it does feel a bit sterile and "normal" for the setting. Some stuff I loved such as how the Sardaukar were adapted with the throat singing and all that.
 

CloudWolf

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Oct 26, 2017
15,909
Lynch's Dune is fucking weird and I kinda love it for that.

It's still the worst Lynch film, but it's not a bad movie at all, just a very rushed one.
 

Graefellsom

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,675
I really like the new Dune film but I won't lie and say it does feel a bit sterile and "normal" for the setting. Some stuff I loved such as how the Sardaukar were adapted with the throat singing and all that.

This is kinda where I'm at. I wouldn't argue that Lynch's Dune is a better as a film even if I prefer it but I think its aesthetic and weirdness is much more interesting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,457
idk I know people who think the old Dune film is leagues better than the newer one

Lynch's film has a real weird style to it that did work well with some of the stuff going on in Dune. Even stuff like the blocky shields were an interesting way to visualize the concept from the novels. Not that everything about the film works, far from it.

Lynch's Dune is fucking weird and I kinda love it for that.

It's still the worst Lynch film, but it's not a bad movie at all, just a very rushed one.

As someone born in the 90s I can match with Cloudwolf's take. After watching the new Dune, the old one does have really cheesy charm, what with Patrick Stewart and Sting hamming it up. It's far less intriguing than the Villeneuve version which is immediately obvious who how Lynch's version isn't allowed to linger on well... Anything. But it's a fun sci fi romp.

I might actually put Dune above Lost Highway in Lynch's filmography I won't lie.
 

Maledict

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Oct 25, 2017
4,213
Lynch's film completely and utterly missed one of the most fundamental narrative themes of the book. It turned a novel that specifically was anti-hero into a very standard white saviour story. I don't have particular faith that any sequel would fix that.
 

MadMod

Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,063
idk people have different tastes. My brother slept through the newest Dune movie.
I mean fatigue has nothing to do with the quality of a movie haha.

If I'm up at 6am go to the gym for 2 hours, go to work for 8 hours, then go to the gym again, then decide to watch 3 hours of Chernobyl and fall asleep, does that make Chernobyl bad?

But of course I do understand tastes. There is also just a standard of quality of movies that is universally understood. Otherwise what is the point of ever critiquing anything without standards haha.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,687
Some interesting bits I'm responding to.

Scytale's 12-year odyssey reanimating "dead Duncan Idaho" into the ghola named Hayt on the nightmarish Bene Tleilax world (mentioned by Paul in Dune) constitutes the entire opening 10 minutes of the script
The way this was described makes it sound like a Lynchian nightmare which is par for the course. It probably would have been really cool to see at least.

While the Dune II draft acknowledges that rainfall (Irulan asks Paul, "Are you never going to let it rain again?"), worms still run rampant
Haha, fuck the haters.

Meanwhile, Paul holds a council meeting providing his now-teenage sister Alia (previously played by 7-year-old Alicia Witt) with a big entrance: "sexy, 17 and wears a very beautiful version of the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother robes." Lynch auditioned actress Jennifer Jason Leigh for the first Dune, making casting director Jane Jenkins earmark her for a "grown-up Alia.
But of course. lol

In terms of political blindness, the unfinished nature of the script leaves open just where the generally Libertarian-leaning Lynch stood with the politics of Dune. In Herbert's novel, and Denis Villeneuve's 2021 Dune, Paul is reluctant to kick off the holy war to end all holy wars. That's largely missing from Lynch's take.
I guess I never thought of Lynch as a centrist. Certainly Paul is a (Marvel) Hero in his version of the story at least.
 

nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,582
People think it's cool to be a Maverick, it'll make you look dumb overall, but at least you can think to be "cool" with such an opinion.
Let's call people dumb or dumbasses for having different opinions.
I think Dune itself is dull and boring young adult fiction and so are both of the movies, but at least Lynch's is fun to look at.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
63,155
I don't read young adult novels I just thought Dune was considered one because people are usually young when they get into it.

Its never been considered a YA novel even if it can be read by younger people. I'd not personally recommend as a YA novel knowing my own experience trying to read it at 12 and bouncing off of it hard.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,213
Gods no. Whilst many older sci-fi books have now been classified as YA, Dune is definitely not one of those. It's very firmly in the harder ends of sci-fi, and aimed at adult readers with a lot of its themes and narrative.
 

ArcticWolf

Member
Nov 29, 2022
792
Gods no. Whilst many older sci-fi books have now been classified as YA, Dune is definitely not one of those. It's very firmly in the harder ends of sci-fi, and aimed at adult readers with a lot of its themes and narrative.

Also before the 1970s the general "image" of science fiction was considered "vulgar fiction" in pulp mags for immature teens and creature feature films. I wouldn't be surprised if that stigma persists today that old sci fi is just immature ray gun battles and giant ants.

Harlan Ellison made that big rant against films basically only now in the 70s/80s thinking scifi was cool after basically mining out stories from the 40s and 50s.
 

ascagnel

Member
Mar 29, 2018
2,258
Lynch's Dune is fucking weird and I kinda love it for that.

It's still the worst Lynch film, but it's not a bad movie at all, just a very rushed one.
One of my favorite movie watching moments was when I realized that "good vs. bad" isn't the end-all, be-all of movies. Inventive vs. rote, boring vs interesting, depth, etc.

I wouldn't call all of Lynch's films "good", but they're all inventive, interesting, and have a ton of depth. Even when he made a Disney movie.
 

CloudWolf

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Oct 26, 2017
15,909
One of my favorite movie watching moments was when I realized that "good vs. bad" isn't the end-all, be-all of movies. Inventive vs. rote, boring vs interesting, depth, etc.

I wouldn't call all of Lynch's films "good", but they're all inventive, interesting, and have a ton of depth. Even when he made a Disney movie.
Honestly, The Straight Story is one of David Lynch's best films. I'm super excited for the 4K that got announced last week.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Gods no. Whilst many older sci-fi books have now been classified as YA, Dune is definitely not one of those. It's very firmly in the harder ends of sci-fi, and aimed at adult readers with a lot of its themes and narrative.

Yeah, Dune is NOT a YA series. And the last two books are essentially X-Rated...
 

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,572
USA
The one thing I dislike about this is the "I found this" bit, as I'm sure the archivist played a larger part in it being findable.
Lol yeah, I was thinking "Oh shit, what dusty abandoned basement box did they find this in?" only to read that it was archived at a University. Bro did not "find" anything.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
I don't know you you mean by this. Duncan's Beef-swelling defeating the magic vagina's of the sex witches is completely PG!

I know Frank Herbet lived through the free-love 60s, and by his own admission, took some psychedelics occasionally. But MAN, the last two books being all about sexual guerrilla warfare was...not something I expected.
 

The Quentulated Mox

Corrupted by Vengeance
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Jun 10, 2022
4,909
I find the '84 dune a more enjoyable watch than the (still excellent!) Villeneuve one. Exile me to the desert for being a contrarian
 

apocat

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Oct 27, 2017
10,241
Lynch's Dune is fucking weird and I kinda love it for that.

It's still the worst Lynch film, but it's not a bad movie at all, just a very rushed one.

Absolutely agree. Villeneuves film is better, but it doesn't have the off kilter charm that Lynch's had.

On a personal, subjective level I actually like Lynch's more.