Giga boots recommended the collection. They didn't say, "I recommend the X games because they are great but skip the collections." No they recommended the collections. That means conditions and all they must not have felt it was severe enough to impact your enjoyment. Great games are ruined by technical issues, go talk to anyone who bought the pc version of Arkham Knight, no one was recommending that despite the game being good. You are trying to split hairs and it's bullshit my friend.It's almost like you can still recommend great games, despite subpar conditions for playing them.
The X Legacy Collection has undeniably great games (in the first collection), but it's also probably the worst way to experience them.
Except in the original video he did on X1 (And assuming his findings echo all the way through to X3 because he never revisits the SNES series past X1 in either video), he talks about how the 8 frame input latency is terrible, invites an unflattering comparison to Killzone 2, wonders if it's because this is a large scale emulation project that X1 is as bad as it is but then points to Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Edition and the original Mega Man X Anniversary Collection as examples that have about half of the input latency, before going on to recommend buying the Mega Man X Legacy Collection because he recognizes Capcom's brand of market research when he sees it and says hey, if you want Mega Man X9 to get the talent and budget it should, buy it anyway.Context wouldn't help their case because even the people who made those graphs, giga boots, still fully endorsed and recommended buying the X Legacy Collections. Convenient how that tidbit of info always gets left out. "Look at these bars though!!!"
Oh well then. Still stand by my original point that the graphs look worse than the games feel. We are running on assumptions at this point of what a random guy feels about X2 and X3 as well. This conversation has strayed far enough away from the original intent of the thread and I'm done talking about giga boots. If people want to shit on the X Legacy Collections at this point, have at it. I still fully recommend them. The controversy is overblown. Try them yourselves.
Just out of curiousity, have you played the X Collection games at all?
Nnnnnnope. I haven't seen a single preview that actually addressed the elephant in the room on this one and it's a hell of a hype killer.
Yeah, not buying this until I get confirmation that there's minimal or zero lag.
Ash from GameXplain said he did not notice any input lag, but he qualified that with saying that he's never been sensitive to it.
A few people on the Mega Man subreddit have gotten early copies and said they've played the DS version of ZX and the Collection version back to back and it felt identical.
No definitive, Digital Foundry style analysis yet, but early reports are very promising.
Hopefully they let you map to ZL and ZR, hate it when games force me to use L and R exclusively.
Like, play the game for 5 minutes and tell me which one is more comfortable.
Nope, not that I am aware of. That said, I do feel like it's an over reaction by some to write off the collections entirely because of some added input lag. It's something you really need hands on time with to properly judge it's impact. All I'll say is this, it's a situation of looking worse on paper than it actually is in practice. The games are fully playable, beatable and enjoyable. They are great collections. When they go on sale, give them a shot. Unless you already have, in that case sorry you couldn't enjoy them.
I already talked about this. It looks worse on paper than it actually is. The games are fine, those graphs don't give you an idea of what it feels like to play these games and I guarantee it's turned off more than a fair share who wouldn't even have noticed any input lag if they had just played the games. Instead people see this, they say "oh my gosh those bars are huge this must be a problem, not going to give it a chance now!" and never realize that they are skipping out on good collections.
Only played them at launch and never touched X1-X3 ever again. Can play them on Emulator or the SNES Classic.Just out of curiousity, have you played the X Collection games at all?
Another R dasher here. R is the way you go most of the time. I can see some case for having all movement on one hand and all weapons on another, but I find it easier to keep my L button charging while moving.
Thanks, it got a bit heated in here we went off topic quite a bit, but I think it's a fair take. I won't deny that there is some additional input lag, but I'm also not going to act like it hurt my experience in any meaningful way and I'm someone who grew up on the SNES trilogy which is supposedly so bad it's unplayable according to some. I can't even imagine how many newcomers have been scared off by the hyperbole surrounding these collections and that's what hurts me the most. The X Collections are a great way to relive these games and an excellent entry point in to the series. Only a minority of people will find fault with them but that hasn't stopped everyone else from being afraid to give them a chance. Talk about hurting the thing you claim to love.
Thanks a lot for your explanation Ash!I've been playing the collection for a few weeks now on Switch, you can find my GX preview here as well as a preview discussion with prolific Mega Man YouTuber ShadowRockZX here. With that said...
To set the record straight, I didn't say I'm not sensitive to input lag at all. I absolutely do perceive it when it's bad, such as when playing Smash Ultimate online with people who have bad connections, or when playing rhythm games or some retro games on an unfriendly 4K TV. That said, some people like to act as though the classic and X Legacy Collections were downright unplayable due to horrific input lag and I absolutely disagree with that, at least in my experience with my setup. I reviewed both collections highly (except for X Legacy Collection 2 because of the included games ranging from decent to ass) and I stand by what I said in my reviews about them being great ways to play MM 1-10 and X-X8 today, and on the whole it would seem folks largely agree with that assessment if other critic and player reviews are anything to go by.
Now, as for Zero/ZX Collection: if there is any input lag, it's so minor that it's virtually meaningless, both on my 1080p LED with a Pro Controller and on handheld mode. I don't have any equipment with which to test the actual latency Digital Foundry style, so I can't back this up with numbers or anything, but just like with the classic and X collections, I have played all of these games many times over the years as a hardcore Mega Man fan (with the exception of ZX and ZXA, which I've only played about three times each) and to me they play just as well as they always have. I haven't yet taken a death in this collection due to input lag or other control issues, and for as much time as I've spent with it now during the preview phase, I don't expect to.
Does that mean your mileage won't vary? No, we're all different, but I know very, very well how these games are supposed to feel and play and Zero/ZX Legacy Collection doesn't feel compromised at all in those respects.
TL;DR - Based on my preview time with the Zero/ZX Legacy Collection (a few weeks now), I'm confident in saying that any input lag in this collection, if it exists, is minimal at best and does not adversely affect the gameplay experience at least for my setup (which, again, is a high-end Samsung 1080p LED, not a 4K display). This also goes for handheld mode, and applies across every title. I know this won't convince the usual "Classic and X Legacy Collections are trash" crowd, but hopefully this helps reassure the rest of you at least a little.
D-D-D-Dealbreaker!!!!They don't, and as I noted in my preview and in my discussion with SRZX, this represents one of my few problems with the collection so far, but it's hardly unique as the X Legacy Collections didn't allow for mapping functions to ZL or ZR either. It's a shame and feels like it should be an easy thing to implement, but it didn't take me long to start feeling comfortable using L and R for these games (though yes, I would always prefer to use ZL and ZR).
The Classic ones didn't even have a platinum and both X Collections did. I'm guessing there will be one for the Zero/ZX Collection. Hoping there are S Rank completion trophies.I'm an R dasher all the god damn way
Do we know what the trophies/achievements are going to look like yet? It's a weird one because they're all long enough to have their own lists/platinums but I doubt Capcom will go for that sadly
X collection was like this, it was one of my only complaints about it.Hopefully they let you map to ZL and ZR, hate it when games force me to use L and R exclusively.
Like, play the game for 5 minutes and tell me which one is more comfortable.
Yeah the X Collection ones were weird as hell (and also X1-3 were abusable super quickly with passwords lol). It's gonna be brutal if they split one platinum over six longer games.The Classic ones didn't even have a platinum and both X Collections did. I'm guessing there will be one for the Zero/ZX Collection. Hoping there are S Rank completion trophies.
This is actually the correct take.It's almost like different people have different tolerance to input lag and one person's unplayable is another person's "I didn't feel anything."
We'd all do well to stop trying to dismiss the fact that the input lag in these games is factual and does exist, and also that some people don't mind and others do.
I think MMX1 is unplayable on switch. Somebody saying, "Nah, it's perfectly playable" isn't a counter to my opinion.
R stops being dash when there's a better offensive action to map on that side of the controller. Left side's for mobility. Right side's for shoot-slash-bang-bang.The hell is this L to dash nonsense? Everyone knows R is dash.
I've always done L. R feels so awkward.The hell is this L to dash nonsense? Everyone knows R is dash.
Exactly. Left for movement and right for action.This is actually the correct take.
R stops being dash when there's a better offensive action to map on that side of the controller. Left side's for mobility. Right side's for shoot-slash-bang-bang.
Why when you can use R to dash, B/A/X to jump, and Y/X/▢ to shoot?This is actually the correct take.
R stops being dash when there's a better offensive action to map on that side of the controller. Left side's for mobility. Right side's for shoot-slash-bang-bang.
They really don't want these to be challenging. Even Mega Man 11 had the 1 hour speedrun including menu's and Dr. Light's Challenge.Trophies are silly lol. One platinum, but you only really have to beat every game on non-casual difficulty with a few other misc things. Same as X.
Mega Man Zero/ZX Legacy Collection Trophies
1 Platinum • 3 Gold • 12 Silver • 22 Bronzepsnprofiles.com
I want my 100% S Rank with separate platinum for every game :(They really don't want these to be challenging. Even Mega Man 11 had the 1 hour speedrun including menu's and Dr. Light's Challenge.
To set the record straight, I didn't say I'm not sensitive to input lag at all. I absolutely do perceive it when it's bad, such as when playing Smash Ultimate online with people who have bad connections, or when playing rhythm games or some retro games on an unfriendly 4K TV. That said, some people like to act as though the classic and X Legacy Collections were downright unplayable due to horrific input lag and I absolutely disagree with that, at least in my experience with my setup. I reviewed both collections highly (except for X Legacy Collection 2 because of the included games ranging from decent to ass) and I stand by what I said in my reviews about them being great ways to play MM 1-10 and X-X8 today, and on the whole it would seem folks largely agree with that assessment if other critic and player reviews are anything to go by.
Now, as for Zero/ZX Collection: if there is any input lag, it's so minor that it's virtually meaningless, both on my 1080p LED with a Pro Controller and on handheld mode. I don't have any equipment with which to test the actual latency Digital Foundry style, so I can't back this up with numbers or anything, but just like with the classic and X collections, I have played all of these games many times over the years as a hardcore Mega Man fan (with the exception of ZX and ZXA, which I've only played about three times each) and to me they play just as well as they always have. I haven't yet taken a death in this collection due to input lag or other control issues, and for as much time as I've spent with it now during the preview phase, I don't expect to.
Does that mean your mileage won't vary? No, we're all different, but I know very, very well how these games are supposed to feel and play and Zero/ZX Legacy Collection doesn't feel compromised at all in those respects.
I appreciate all the work you've put in reviewing this game, and I want to trust your judgement, but there have been extensive tests of MMXLC1's input lag and it's significant. Whether you personally find it bad enough to ruin your gameplay experience is almost irrelevant, because you can reproduce the same results everyone else has, and then juxtapose it with the original ROMS/cartridges.
It's also not just about gameplay, it's about Capcom reselling people a subpar product. Input lag should not be worse than it was originally. There's literally no reason for it unless they're using absolutely terrible emulation software.
If you're seriously out here saying the MMXLC1 plays "just as well as it always has", that is literally and demonstrably impossible, so I really don't know how to process this.