• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
One of the reasons I'm working as Social Media Manager now despite having years of and nothing but love for community management. It's literally one of the least appreciated positions in gaming, both by players and companies.

Also rarely well payed.

Man this sucks but feels so familiar :/

Of course, it is. While you cannot always give a core player base what they want you can interact with them and keep the loyal base largely on your side. There aren't many other games companies than (old) Blizzard who accrued as much goodwill and loyalty. Probably Valve back in the day too, when Gabe actually seemed to interact more with the community and do stuff on Reddit. Nowadays red tape drapes actually talking to your userbase and decisions from up top are all about business business business, not sometimes listening and considering.

But these are long-term goals at building and maintaining a healthy eco-system. It's hard work and requires constant input/effort. This whole industry is becoming short-term profit chasing and if any PR mistakes happen or something reaches boiling point with the community, just close a whole studio or shitcan an IP.

The gulf between player base/community and developer hasn't been larger than it is now. Outside of some indie titles, or smaller studios. Yes, we know, the fans can sometimes ask for things that can't materialize, or genuinely don't make financial sense, but there are many more productive ways to interact, debate and communicate.
 
Dec 20, 2017
368
Wow. Seems like whoever was picking limbs to chop of was incredibly out of touch. Good luck to Ythisens, but it sounds like he has quite the resume and a huge support network. I'm confident he will land on his feet.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
I pray he gets picked up by Bungie I feel like he'd be a great addition for them.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
Wow. Seems like whoever was picking limbs to chop of was incredibly out of touch. Good luck to Ythisens, but it sounds like he has quite the resume and a huge support network. I'm confident he will land on his feet.

When I've been involved in these before it's been incredibly impersonal in most cases. On the managerial side for a large Fortune 500 company, we'd be given appraisal sheets to evaluate our folks, then those would get rolled up to identify low performers. It was absolutely stupid because some managers would be honest while others would sandbag to protect their own. Even if everyone tried to be honest there was no way for us to all use exactly the same standards.

Eventually each manager who had affected people would either be given a number of people to eliminate, or sometimes the choice would be made for them. Sometimes we'd also find that a person 2+ levels up "massaged" the numbers to make them work out at a high level (location based, salary based, etc). I was director level so these people were VP level or so. So yeah, someone (in a different city) that had never met the person let alone know anything whatsoever about their performance or tasks would have the final say on their ratings and subsequent fate. It was horrible.

Of course a director/manager, etc could go to bat for someone and fight the good fight as well. But that was usually like pushing on a wall, and keep in mind that person is trying to dodge the ax at the same time.

Who knows how Activision/Bliz is doing it, but I am not surprised to see people affected that shouldn't be. In fact I'd be shocked if they weren't.
 
Last edited:

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,061
I've seen a few WoW refugees over in FFXIV and man, I can't even imagine losing what seems like one of the main community managers that had a direct line of communication with the player base in a time like this.

I honestly feel for everyone involved and this is just a mess
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
They were done top-down from corporate.

This is a pretty perfect example of what not to do with layoffs though- a CM is doing PR work for you that's important and necessary.
From what I've heard, corporate handed down the number of people to lay off.
Middle management made the decision of who to actually lay off.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,159
I honestly feel like a significant part of this forum have little idea how publicly traded companies work.

They don't, you're right.

But it's also in large part that people here just don't really support publicly traded companies that much. I personally am not a fan due to the nature of fiduciary interests and how counter it is to sustainable business practices. It's a huge contributor in my opinion to many if not most industry issues, wealth inequality and why while the "Economy" benefits or is healthy, it rarely translates to low or middle income health.

The reality is. Especially due to the importance/nature of earnings reports and such. That it's such a game that it creates so much instability at the expense of the workers and lay people. But who cares if maybe just maybe we can be millionaires too right!
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,159
Of course, it is. While you cannot always give a core player base what they want you can interact with them and keep the loyal base largely on your side. There aren't many other games companies than (old) Blizzard who accrued as much goodwill and loyalty. Probably Valve back in the day too, when Gabe actually seemed to interact more with the community and do stuff on Reddit. Nowadays red tape drapes actually talking to your userbase and decisions from up top are all about business business business, not sometimes listening and considering.

But these are long-term goals at building and maintaining a healthy eco-system. It's hard work and requires constant input/effort. This whole industry is becoming short-term profit chasing and if any PR mistakes happen or something reaches boiling point with the community, just close a whole studio or shitcan an IP.

The gulf between player base/community and developer hasn't been larger than it is now. Outside of some indie titles, or smaller studios. Yes, we know, the fans can sometimes ask for things that can't materialize, or genuinely don't make financial sense, but there are many more productive ways to interact, debate and communicate.
You'll only see this continue as we push further and further into data science/analytic first mentalities. As someone in a related field. It actually deeply saddens me that we factor out anything of nuance that can't be accounted for by direct/hard numbers. When it's obviously holistic. In fact pretty much everything is. But holistic visions are rarely quantifiable in a way money hats want.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
They don't, you're right.

But it's also in large part that people here just don't really support publicly traded companies that much. I personally am not a fan due to the nature of fiduciary interests and how counter it is to sustainable business practices. It's a huge contributor in my opinion to many if not most industry issues, wealth inequality and why while the "Economy" benefits or is healthy, it rarely translates to low or middle income health.

The reality is. Especially due to the importance/nature of earnings reports and such. That it's such a game that it creates so much instability at the expense of the workers and lay people. But who cares if maybe just maybe we can be millionaires too right!
On the other hand, Era is always ragging on the stockholders while claiming they support the devs on the front line, but don't seem to realize that it's standard for mid-level positions in the industry to grant equity.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
You'll only see this continue as we push further and further into data science/analytic first mentalities. As someone in a related field. It actually deeply saddens me that we factor out anything of nuance that can't be accounted for by direct/hard numbers. When it's obviously holistic. In fact pretty much everything is. But holistic visions are rarely quantifiable in a way money hats want.
But this isn't actually true? Being data-informed is to create accountability for design decisions, and accountability is what creates efficiency and informs future good decisions.

Thorough developers will A/B test as much as they can specifically to understand the impact of individual decisions among the holistic vision, and ironically the community likes to give them shit for it because it's too "focus grouped", or my favorite idiotism, "they're using science/psychology"!

Also the idea that companies are chasing "short term profit" is... ridiculous? Generally people are referring to big companies like EA or Activision or Ubisoft who have been around for decades, so they most definitely have proven, long-term plans. And surprise, part of what lets them stay viable is their own holistic vision of company strategy, which should unsurprisingly include restructuring and reprioritizing resources.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
They don't, you're right.

But it's also in large part that people here just don't really support publicly traded companies that much. I personally am not a fan due to the nature of fiduciary interests and how counter it is to sustainable business practices. It's a huge contributor in my opinion to many if not most industry issues, wealth inequality and why while the "Economy" benefits or is healthy, it rarely translates to low or middle income health.

The reality is. Especially due to the importance/nature of earnings reports and such. That it's such a game that it creates so much instability at the expense of the workers and lay people. But who cares if maybe just maybe we can be millionaires too right!

Yeah I get that a significant part of the forum's user base would prefer to live in a Utopia, but that's a huge can of worms. Regardless, this is reality. You don't have to like it. (Edit: I mean you plural, not singling out just your post)

I just get frustrated b/c people often cry for polarized opposite positions.

-Want to support devs and ensure high quality games to play. Also want to buy from G2A or similar, or at very least Steam sales and Humble Bundles.
-Don't want to support companies they disagree with (whether due to a layoff, a CEO's politics, whatever). But also don't want (chosen) people to get laid off.

I also understand that many people are younger than I am, but eventually most will get to the point where they'd also like to see some investments produce returns so that they can retire someday.

Also the idea that companies are chasing "short term profit" is... ridiculous? Generally people are referring to big companies like EA or Activision or Ubisoft who have been around for decades, so they most definitely have proven, long-term plans. And surprise, part of what lets them stay viable is their own holistic vision of company strategy, which should unsurprisingly include restructuring and reprioritizing resources.

I've definitely experienced the short-term gain phenomenon in my career and it was very damaging to my employer in the end. They were on a constant quest to make the next quarter's numbers, to the degree that they put damaging financial rewards in place for their sales teams.

They were constantly trying to pull future business into the current quarter, often using greater and greater discount levels as incentive. Eventually they gave away enough of the future that the whole house of cards came down. Of course the people who made these decisions were out the door, but not before they popped their golden parachutes. That's where the discussion breaks down though. For the sub 1% it feels like the leaders get rewarded for making bad decisions.

I'm sure a proper argument could be made that all of this was a symptom rather than a cause of the collapse. This was all just a last gasp to keep the stock price propped up as long as possible.
 
Last edited:

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,159
Yeah I get that a significant part of the forum's user base would prefer to live in a Utopia, but that's a huge can of worms. Regardless, this is reality. You don't have to like it. (Edit: I mean you plural, not singling out just your post)

I just get frustrated b/c people often cry for polarized opposite positions.

-Want to support devs and ensure high quality games to play. Also want to buy from G2A or similar, or at very least Steam sales and Humble Bundles.
-Don't want to support companies they disagree with (whether due to a layoff, a CEO's politics, whatever). But also don't want (chosen) people to get laid off.

I also understand that many people are younger than I am, but eventually most will get to the point where they'd also like to see some investments produce returns so that they can retire someday.



I've definitely experienced the short-term gain phenomenon in my career and it was very damaging to my employer in the end. They were on a constant quest to make the next quarter's numbers, to the degree that they put damaging financial rewards in place for their sales teams.

They were constantly trying to pull future business into the current quarter, often using greater and greater discount levels as incentive. Eventually they gave away enough of the future that the whole house of cards came down. Of course the people who made these decisions were out the door, but not before they popped their golden parachutes. That's where the discussion breaks down though. For the sub 1% it feels like the leaders get rewarded for making bad decisions.

I'm sure a proper argument could be made that all of this was a symptom rather than a cause of the collapse. This was all just a last gasp to keep the stock price propped up as long as possible.
Of course we all want to live in Utopia. And I get that reality often conflicts with what many of us here wish was. I'm just more speaking as to your second paragraph/response there as how I feel often about the prioritization of fiduciary interests. The reality is, profit sharing would be better than stock options for most of these people, because they aren't trading like many of the investors who are being rewarded. It's not active money management, they are getting stock options as middle tier employees. But generally they aren't managing those stocks. They're just sitting on them until later/retirement and hoping they grew enough and don't crash. I just think the model is broken personally. Businesses build around the model that is provided and that is trying to make your stocks as valuable as possible. Even if it means unsustainable growth and nasty decisions to boost quarterly projections/results at the expense of holistic thinking.

I know it's far more nuanced than that, it's just the way I feel.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,159
Profit-sharing is how you create people who only care about short-term gains.
Fair point. The difference being that workers aren't just going to leave their jobs because of a profitable quarter/return. In fact they're more likely to want to stay and work harder. I get what you're saying. But really that component isn't the biggest piece of this anyway. From a systemic standpoint there are issues which I think are and can be further exacerbated by the current progression of the industry models.

I know I'm doing the armchair general thing and I don't have exact answers. It just seems to me the current path will only continue to get worse. Especially as worker and consumer protections continue to dissolve and the way we work changes. Maybe it's just due to competition with the rising tide of other countries developing. But I feel there's a lot more at play than that. Or this system wouldn't be benefitting the top and continuing to consolidate wealth to the top.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,951
Terana
Tells you the direction Blizz is headed in. Not that this is something totally unique to them or videogames.

Sad shit to think these workers are considered expendable just so shareholders can get even more