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Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,041
What? Insomniac is one of the best devs in the world and their recent Ratchet is one of the best games of this gen. Weird call.
I have played Spyro 1-3, Ratchet 1-3, Ratchet Tools of Destruction and Sunset Overdrive, none of those have very good level design and the only on with good core mechanics from my pov is Sunset Overdrive. They make beautiful games that are very polished, but the main qualities of Banjo they haven't convinced me at all they could deliver.
 
Mar 11, 2019
549
Sony's games are also likely to be delayed. Even their past few releases (TLOU2, GOT, Days Gone, Dreams) also saw (multiple) delays and that was before the whole COVID situation. Working from home wreaks havoc on development schedule.
Yes, I suspect that may play a part in Sony focusing much more on third party deals, to try and differentiate their offering from MS as the "best place to play". With many of their major studios just having released their games in last few years, needing a few years to release their next gen game. Although spiderman morales will do wonders, as ratchet in attracting younger audience, and titles such as GT7 and demon souls probably for early 2021, able to attract people with different tastes.

I don't know if I completely agree on that take. Delaying Halo to 2021 doesn't change that much. Most of the people who are into gaming enough to be on reddit, resetera, listen to gaming podcasts etc. have already made up there mind regardless of what game is coming out for either first party. If they were buying for halo not getting for a few months isn't going to change much as its still coming. Then you have the majority of the more casual crowd who is probably not even aware Halo was coming out let alone delayed. They will get whatever console is more affordable, on sale, or whichever game drove them to upgrade be it call of duty, Madden, nba2k or whenever it comes out in 2021 Halo.
Yes is not like the XSX will suddenly sell 50% less, and indeed things like the cheap XSS will be very interesting to see how successful it is. But how big is this casual audiance not really knowing what they are getting into? I think by far the majority are fairly well informed, on top of that many of current PS4 owners have been more happy with PS then Xbox owners and if many saw reason to get the XSX at launch for Halo as the best place to play with the highest fidelity now being delayed without a clear date, gives them reason to switch being fed up with MS, as they where in doubt before. Or at least make the PS5 their first taste of a next gen experience over the XSX until MS improves their offering.

Neither console is going to be sold out for an entire year. The Switch and PS4 couldn't even do that.

The Wii was the only one that was consistently sold out for that long.
The PS4 was sold out in Europe for over a year in many places. I am fairly convinced the PS5 will do the same if the cheaper discless version is 450 or lower.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
I wonder if the Halo delay will accelerate Microsofts plans for other a announcements? I am guessing they did not want other games to clash with Halo but that area is wide open now.
 

Bloodforge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
944
Earth
If the hardware is ready there's not much point in the delay. There are warehouses full of them manufactured already. On both sides there isn't tons of incentive to buy day one, but you don't really have to. It's okay to buy a new console in the spring. Play Cyberpunk on your One X or whatever, not like the XSX enhancements will be available this year. All depends on what you are interested in.

I like having the latest and greatest and am very intrigued by the BC enhancements (hope it's not something lame like only 2 games get the frame rate doubling).
Hardware side MS has been ready, remember they original target was September. All delays are on software side. They are not going to let millions of console sit in a warehouse.

True with the warehouse situation, didn't even think of that.
 

Hawk269

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,051
Like i said in the other thread. MS delaying this game out of a new console launch to give it more time is only good news and a change in MS.
Old MS would have released it no matter what.
This!!!! 100% This!!!

My fear of Halo Infinite was that it would launch broken, buggy and technical issues. I did not mind how the game looked at reveal, but I could and agree that things could have been better. It is much smarter for MS/343i to delay the game to get it up to snuff and ensure when it does launch that it launches in the best possible state. What I would like to know is if Ray Tracing now will be in for when it does launch?
 

Vico

Member
Jan 3, 2018
6,388
Yeah, my biggest disappointment from the showcase might actually be the fact that the publishing team had almost nothing to show. I'm guessing with the amount invested in studios, they didn't think it was useful, but I always imagined the surprises would come from them.

After Flight Sim and Tell me Why, the only game they're supervising is As Dusk Falls, which definitely feels on the smaller side of the scale. I didn't expect any publishing game to be there at launch, to be shown at tbut I did think we'd have more from them in 2021.

A necessary choice given the state of the game and reactions to what was shown. Between building an engine, leads leaving and COVID, there's just been a compounding effect on Infinite's development. Many games, especially huge AAA games, really come together in the last months of development leading up to launch. The pandemic's thrown a massive wrench into all of that.

I think it's a blow to launch, no doubt. Infinite was a huge pillar behind the Series X, the big game Microsoft would center launch around. It's not the *only* selling point, but a big one. The decision to delay was no doubt a very, very difficult one to make. Having known people who had to get projects done in time for launch no matter the costs, it took some balls to call this by the studio, undoubtedly facing down a line of angry execs. Maybe however it is just a sign of the industry maturing, and not just deciding to break the team in order to launch at any cost...ultimately, it's for the best for the game and team.

At the same time, expect news about other Xbox stuff that's been going around recently to come a bit later too.

Thank you for the insights. We're definitely not going to see any Halo for a while that's for sure. I'm guessing the hardware announcements will still be in august, because later seems too late.
 

iareec

Banned
Jul 19, 2020
503
CHANGE MY MIND

Microsoft is like a rollercoaster, they can go up and down with amazing news and some disappointing ones.
I said a lot of times that I'm still undecided and I will give more chances for Xbox, but I hate the way they communicate with people. They (and insiders) build the hype and can't keep it up.
I hope there's some major news on August, but really tired of all this bullshit marketing.
 

Sampo

Member
Jan 23, 2019
163
With Infinite's delay, should we expect raytracing at launch on Series X now? Also I think it would be a cool move if a multiplayer beta was ready for the console launch. I want to emphasize these aren't demands, just thoughts. 343 must be under a lot of pressure right now, and I'm glad they're getting more time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,638
The World
CHANGE MY MIND

Microsoft is like a rollercoaster, they can go up and down with amazing news and some disappointing ones.
I said a lot of times that I'm still undecided and I will give more chances for Xbox, but I hate the way they communicate with people. They (and insiders) build the hype and can't keep it up.
I hope there's some major news on August, but really tired of all this bullshit marketing.

Ridiculous.

Delaying a game to give Studio more time to do what they want to do is always a good thing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
Posted this in the discord

I will be interested in how Phil and co pivot. IMO I think they should go super hard on gamepass day one stuff(as well as CP and destiny marketing). I don't think it's as drastic as others think. A bad rushed halo game would be worse
 

solis74

Member
Jun 11, 2018
43,045
I don't know if I completely agree on that take. Delaying Halo to 2021 doesn't change that much. Most of the people who are into gaming enough to be on reddit, resetera, listen to gaming podcasts etc. have already made up there mind regardless of what game is coming out for either first party. If they were buying for halo not getting for a few months isn't going to change much as its still coming. Then you have the majority of the more casual crowd who is probably not even aware Halo was coming out let alone delayed. They will get whatever console is more affordable, on sale, or whichever game drove them to upgrade be it call of duty, Madden, nba2k or whenever it comes out in 2021 Halo.

yeps agree
 

dotnetguy

Member
Jul 12, 2020
172
Delaying Halo sounds like the right decision. The alternative would have been punishing crunch for the team. We should all be grateful that will not be happening.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
CHANGE MY MIND

Microsoft is like a rollercoaster, they can go up and down with amazing news and some disappointing ones.
I said a lot of times that I'm still undecided and I will give more chances for Xbox, but I hate the way they communicate with people. They (and insiders) build the hype and can't keep it up.
I hope there's some major news on August, but really tired of all this bullshit marketing.

You did rather MS and Sony swap positions?
 

iareec

Banned
Jul 19, 2020
503
3jwu3ue30gg51.jpg
 

Parker Petrov

Member
Nov 1, 2017
452
Yes is not like the XSX will suddenly sell 50% less, and indeed things like the cheap XSS will be very interesting to see how successful it is. But how big is this casual audiance not really knowing what they are getting into? I think by far the majority are fairly well informed, on top of that many of current PS4 owners have been more happy with PS then Xbox owners and if many saw reason to get the XSX at launch for Halo as the best place to play with the highest fidelity now being delayed without a clear date, gives them reason to switch being fed up with MS, as they where in doubt before. Or at least make the PS5 their first taste of a next gen experience over the XSX until MS improves their offering.

I get what you're saying. However, the casual audience is Massive. There is tons of people who buy a PlayStation or Xbox and the only game they play is madden. The only game they play COD, or Nba2k, etc. Each year they just buy that game. Maybe something catches there eye and they dip into a different game like a gta or something. However, by and large, they play their specific game(s) and don't follow the industry at large. It seems like there is more people like us because we are all grouped together which creates an echo-chamber but more people are casual.

I think you are looking at this as Microsoft's goal is to convert people who are PlayStation gamers and make them Xbox gamers. That's not really Microsoft's strategy. As there is some cross over but between ps4 and Xbox sales you have 150 million console sales. You aren't going to get many more than that in a given generation. So it's a finite number. Those are all the people traditionally a game company could sell too. However, Microsoft's goal is to convert people in South Korea, Japan, and India, etc who traditionally only game on phones and PC's to xcloud and gamepass customers.

As the only way to convert a PlayStation gamer to an Xbox gamer is time. Nothing other than selling the console insanely cheap will get some of those people other than Microsoft just releasing good games. State of Decay 3 looked great that needs to come out and be great, Avowed needs to come out and be great, etc. When they start having these experiences where they feel like they are missing out on something then they will come over buy the console or they buy or build a gaming pc and play them on PC, or play them on their phone but that still gets into the ecosystem.

Microsoft selling a console is great, but it's not the only way they are successful. Where that is not the case for Sony. Sony has to sell the console to be successful.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
A necessary choice given the state of the game and reactions to what was shown. Between building an engine, leads leaving and COVID, there's just been a compounding effect on Infinite's development. Many games, especially huge AAA games, really come together in the last months of development leading up to launch. The pandemic's thrown a massive wrench into all of that.

I think it's a blow to launch, no doubt. Infinite was a huge pillar behind the Series X, the big game Microsoft would center launch around. It's not the *only* selling point, but a big one. The decision to delay was no doubt a very, very difficult one to make. Having known people who had to get projects done in time for launch no matter the costs, it took some balls to call this by the studio, undoubtedly facing down a line of angry execs. Maybe however it is just a sign of the industry maturing, and not just deciding to break the team in order to launch at any cost...ultimately, it's for the best for the game and team.

At the same time, expect news about other Xbox stuff that's been going around recently to come a bit later too.
Hmm interesting. I mean, it does fit everything Phil had been saying, and would be quite hypocritical if they had not. They repeatedly assured us all that Series X and Halo wouldn't be tied together if they needed to be. Phil repeatedly warned that software was harder than hardware. Phil said he would put the "safety and security" of the team first (in relation to the pandemic, but.. I think crunch counts too). In all those ways, it's OBVIOUS that the only right move was to delay.

And yet.. yes, this is massively surprising. Launch is such a hard deadline, that it's really hard to imagine people signing off on such a decision. It will be a massive blow to the narrative around the new console. What a difficult decision. Not just Halo itself, but likely all the Series X marketing that were going to make use of Halo now will have to reorient and maybe even change assets.

That said.. I do wonder if the pandemic is maybe one reason Xbox is willing to go along with this. They already said that selling consoles isn't necessarily the business model anymore. Especially in a year when demand may still ultimately end up being down (and especially if Congress doesn't end up figuring out a way to support people with cash in the middle of all of this). Selling games and subs and services is more the focus now. Halo Infinite launching with Series X would UNDOUBTEDLY have helped both (and still will), but a great game will accomplish the second well enough anyway, even if it's a year later.

I'm most curious how long the delay will be. Do they just go balls to the wall and push to next holiday?
 

PsyDec

Member
Jun 3, 2019
1,486
"In Chris Lee we trust" my bollocks, GING-SAMA.

Morgoth Bauglir was right. He's been right the whole time.

What a sad day for Xbox. Not the saddest for Halo, as they're giving it a chance to get better, but this is Xbox Series X marketing crumbling to pieces.
I mean it's bittersweet for sure, but with both PS5 and XSX having BC this time around launch titles don't seem to be as much of a big deal to me.
 

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,705
Thought it was worth bringing up this Phil interview from back in early April, just when the pandemic was getting started. Talk about COVID and potential delays starts around 3:40 and lasts 7 mins or so.



"I don't think we would hold the launch of the overall platform for any individual game"

I doubt a potential delay of Halo was off their radar back then. He said he mostly cared about the hardware, platform and systems being ready.
 

Deleted member 53021

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 3, 2019
367
Why can't say me people feel for the studios...over 300 people working on a huge AAA game must be chaotic...you have to give 343i a breathing space here
 
Jun 15, 2020
7,125
I like you!

Same here, I didn't even realize people hated the game until recently. For 4 player co-op with mates, all around that age, it was an awesome game. We played and completed that game a bunch of times.
Felt like every Xbox shooter there for awhile was positioned as "Microsoft's next Halo". And then the backlash was harder on them than it should have been, because obviously they couldn't live up to that.
 

PsyDec

Member
Jun 3, 2019
1,486


If this is a late 2021 game now, maybe they can phase out Xbox One completely? It would seem like a waste to keep trying to optimize for that console if this game is gonna come out next fall or something. If it was coming out in like March-April or something I'd understand, I guess.

That's interesting actually. It's was becoming more and more apparent that the cross-gen decision was almost entirely for Halo. It made sense because they wanted people in games pass across the PC, Xone and XSX. I guess it depends how it is selling by the time Halo is ready.

Having said that, I wager the things the team would want to do with the game would be more than just cranking the settings uk if they were given that power to play with, so I can't see them going with anything other than cross-gen.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
It wouldn't have cost MS crazy money to have a killer instinct and banjo sequel ready for launch, if investment started early enough.

Now we're getting marketing talking about 4 generations of BC games.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,655
I wish Halo 3 Anniversary was a thing. Would have been perfect to wait until Halo Infinite.

Anyway, I'm surprised that the Global Publishing Team hasn't anything like Ryse or another AA visual showcase for the Series X.
 
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