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Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation

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Iron Eddie

Iron Eddie

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Nov 25, 2019
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ILikeFeet said:
not saying it'll put Xbox into the grave, but it'll make RT support in the future more spotty because devs will have to build for both full rasterizing and rt and some might just not bother with it. when the baseline has rt, then we can see better optimization that will benefit everyone
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Why would they create a game for PS5 with RT and not Series X because of Lockhart? Isn't RT on Series X hardware based and that is how they got it working on old titles like Fusion Frenzy?

Any multiplat games that has RT for the PS5 will also have it on Series X. Anyone looking at Lockhart probably doesn't care about features like RT, just like anyone buying a $200-$300 GPU today, they will get to play the same games as those who have a 2080ti.
 
Betelgeuse

Betelgeuse

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Nov 2, 2017
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Walken said:
Why would they create a game for PS5 with RT and not Series X because of Lockhart? Isn't RT on Series X hardware based and that is how they got it working on old titles like Fusion Frenzy?

Any multiplat games that has RT for the PS5 will also have it on Series X. Anyone looking at Lockhart probably doesn't care about features like RT, just like anyone buying a $200-$300 GPU today, they will get to play the same games as those who have a 2080ti.
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They added HDR to Fusion Frenzy. Not RT.
 
Iron Eddie

Iron Eddie

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Nov 25, 2019
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Betelgeuse said:
They added HDR to Fusion Frenzy. Not RT.
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What about Minecraft and Gears 5?

ILikeFeet said:
I'm working off the rumor that lockhart support is mandatory (provided it comes out).

Gears 5 is using SSGI, which doesn't use RT hardware (for now)
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Either way i think we are getting ahead of ourselves. We will all just have to wait and see. I just don't see how a multiplat game that has RT on PS5 wouldn't on Series X.
 
ILikeFeet

ILikeFeet

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Walken said:
Why would they create a game for PS5 with RT and not Series X because of Lockhart? Isn't RT on Series X hardware based and that is how they got it working on old titles like Fusion Frenzy?

Any multiplat games that has RT for the PS5 will also have it on Series X. Anyone looking at Lockhart probably doesn't care about features like RT, just like anyone buying a $200-$300 GPU today, they will get to play the same games as those who have a 2080ti.
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I'm working off the rumor that lockhart support is mandatory (provided it comes out).

Walken said:
What about Minecraft and Gears 5?
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Gears 5 is using SSGI, which doesn't use RT hardware (for now)
 
Fisty

Fisty

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Oct 25, 2017
20,581
Walken said:
What about Minecraft and Gears 5?



Either way i think we are getting ahead of ourselves. We will all just have to wait and see. I just don't see how a multiplat game that has RT on PS5 wouldn't on Series X.
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No the problem would be that since they cant do RT as the solution for lighting or whatever on all SKUs, they dont do it on any of them instead of doing two separate systems. Basically if they cant do RT on all of them, they dont do it on any of them
 
Betelgeuse

Betelgeuse

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Nov 2, 2017
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Walken said:
What about Minecraft and Gears 5?
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Different situations. Development of the RT version of Minecraft is ongoing; it's specifically being built for RT. Gears' "RT" isn't HW-accelerated and I believe is provided by way of Unreal Engine 4.

Old games whose development has concluded won't see RT support unless developers themselves go back and rework the guts of the engine. I suspect that would prove a pretty serious task with little ROI, so I'm not expecting it outside of more full-blown remasters/remakes.

That's OK though. What MS is achieving without developer intervention is pretty amazing.
 
Fisty

Fisty

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Oct 25, 2017
20,581
Walken said:
Shall we have an avatar bet on that?
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... no? I'm just spitballing here, we dont even know if the Lockhart is real yet. RT isnt just some toggle on the menu for devs, it takes a lot of work and optimization ($)

Like I said, if a Lockhart GPU cant support specific RT features then devs might be stuck with extra work if they want to implement RT on top of whatever they can get working on Lockhart. That extra work is usually the first on the chopping block when finalizing a project's scope, and seeing the reality of how RT models tax the premium console is sobering when you think about the possibility of supporting a low-end unit too
 
pg2g

pg2g

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Dec 18, 2018
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Why are we talking like Lockhart doesn't have RT? I don't remember a single rumor that suggested that
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

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Oct 25, 2017
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ElNino said:
I have an older version of the current slim line of Marantz recievers.
https://www.us.marantz.com/en-US/shop/avreceivers/nr1510

I believe this one is a 5.2 capable receiver and there is another one which is 7.2. The might have different specs for inputs, but I haven't looked at the the new models to know exactly what the differences are.

BTW, I like your setup. It's "clean" while still looking very comfortable.
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thanks for the tip. and appreciate the compliment on the setup!
Yeah I love it


I am a bit concerned that having 2.5" on each side might not be super ideal from a cooling perspective due to the new nature of the air flow.

I am not worried at present because so much of it is shot out the back and sides on current gen. Do yall think it will be okay in this environment?

3i0me6Fl.jpg


also, funny observation

both consoles stacked up are only 4.5" tall, 1.5" shy of the future box

py7TFDKl.jpg
 
Iron Eddie

Iron Eddie

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Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Fisty said:
... no? I'm just spitballing here, we dont even know if the Lockhart is real yet. RT isnt just some toggle on the menu for devs, it takes a lot of work and optimization ($)

Like I said, if a Lockhart GPU cant support specific RT features then devs might be stuck with extra work if they want to implement RT on top of whatever they can get working on Lockhart. That extra work is usually the first on the chopping block when finalizing a project's scope, and seeing the reality of how RT models tax the premium console is sobering when you think about the possibility of supporting a low-end unit too
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There are obviously a lot of valid concerns if Lockhart does exist. Price is going to be the biggest reveal so it will be interesting so see who goes first but I don't expect Sony to announce that tomorrow.

I'm just excited to see new hardware, it feels like forever and I never even jumped on the current gen, went full on PC instead. I want to see a bigger jump into next gen and so far it looks like it will be.
 

Deleted member 56752

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May 15, 2019
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I was like dang that 3.8 ghz cpu slays My i79700k and then I did more research and was like oh. Yeah my bad I forgot. Still though, this cpu is a major upgrade
 
Bosch

Bosch

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May 15, 2019
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What I think is more incredible is the ability to set hdr on old games. This is amazing.
 

M3rcy

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Oct 27, 2017
702
JaseC said:
And similarly, the XSX's RAM pool is really the only place GPU data can be stored, as the SSD's max transfer rate of 4.8GBps is a fraction of what a PCI-E 3.0 16x slot can do.
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You did read about all the software + hardware engineering they did to address that exact thing, right?
 
GrrImAFridge

GrrImAFridge

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M3rcy said:
You did read about all the software + hardware engineering they did to address that exact thing, right?
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Yes, and it remains to be seen whether SFS will work as well as described across the board. If it does indeed reduce the GPU memory footprint by a factor of 2x/3x regardless of what is being rendered and how it is being rendered, then, sure, the faster 10GB tier can be viewed as 20GB/30GB in practice and the idea that any next-gen game will "spill over" into the slower tier becomes exceedingly unlikely.
 
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GameAddict411

GameAddict411

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Oct 26, 2017
8,649
nillapuddin said:
thanks for the tip. and appreciate the compliment on the setup!
Yeah I love it


I am a bit concerned that having 2.5" on each side might not be super ideal from a cooling perspective due to the new nature of the air flow.

I am not worried at present because so much of it is shot out the back and sides on current gen. Do yall think it will be okay in this environment?

3i0me6Fl.jpg


also, funny observation

both consoles stacked up are only 4.5" tall, 1.5" shy of the future box

py7TFDKl.jpg
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And then people complain about jet engine fans lol. Your current set up is just not suitable for any airflow. The XSX will suck air from one side and exhaust on the other. There is no where for the air to escape.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

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Oct 25, 2017
3,274
GameAddict411 said:
And then people complain about jet engine fans lol. Your current set up is just not suitable for any airflow. The XSX will suck air from one side and exhaust on the other. There is no where for the air to escape.
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... I'm literally asking in my post " Do yall think it will be okay in this environment? "

Because the air flow dynamics are super different. I understand that. So Im bringing it up.

I am 100% prepared to put it on the side of the entertainment center on my subwoofer or some other orientation so it isn't compromised

edit:

actually, did you even read my post at all?
" I am a bit concerned that having 2.5" on each side might not be super ideal from a cooling perspective due to the new nature of the air flow. " is the first damn thing I said
 
TheSentry42

TheSentry42

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Nov 2, 2017
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I don't mean to be a doofus, but after seeing all this info, is the Xbox Series X...

- Less powerful
- As powerful
- More powerful

... than most people were expecting?
 
褲蓋Calo

褲蓋Calo

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DopeyFish

DopeyFish

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Oct 25, 2017
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TheSentry42 said:
I don't mean to be a doofus, but after seeing all this info, is the Xbox Series X...

- Less powerful
- As powerful
- More powerful

... than most people were expecting?
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well going into the announcement phase, it's more powerful than most peoples expectations as 8-10 TF was the generally expected performance

after this upcoming announcement where RT comes at no cost to raster, it probably ended up more powerful than the large majority of expectations.

the CPU alone is more powerful than pretty much everyones expectations.

it really is a monster console. it's pretty much a high end PC.
 
MajesticSoup

MajesticSoup

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Feb 22, 2019
1,935
TheSentry42 said:
I don't mean to be a doofus, but after seeing all this info, is the Xbox Series X...

- Less powerful
- As powerful
- More powerful

... than most people were expecting?
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Broke even the high end of people expectations. RDNA2 wasnt expected. Ray tracing was wishful thinking, NVME came out of no where. People were expecting 1070-1080 level non ray traced 2tb hdd consoles. Only thing that didnt blow people away was 16gb GDDR6.
 
GamerDude

GamerDude

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Oct 28, 2017
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I would bet that Series X will cost $500, Series S will cost $400. Possibly $350 depending on how much weaker it is.
 
ss_lemonade

ss_lemonade

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Oct 27, 2017
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MajesticSoup said:
Broke even the high end of people expectations. RDNA2 wasnt expected. Ray tracing was wishful thinking, NVME came out of no where. People were expecting 1070-1080 level non ray traced 2tb hdd consoles. Only thing that didnt blow people away was 16gb GDDR6.
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One X is pretty much at 1070 level. I expected better than 1080 Ti level (only because that is what I have lol) and this seems to deliver that and more with hardware RT support.
 
Horp

Horp

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Nov 16, 2017
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Cant watch the whole thing right now. Do they mention how loud the XSX is? The loudness of my PS4 (pro) is perhaps the nr 1 that keeps me from playing on it.
 
leng jai

leng jai

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Nov 2, 2017
15,163
MajesticSoup said:
Broke even the high end of people expectations. RDNA2 wasnt expected. Ray tracing was wishful thinking, NVME came out of no where. People were expecting 1070-1080 level non ray traced 2tb hdd consoles. Only thing that didnt blow people away was 16gb GDDR6.
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1070-1080 level never made sense because the 1X was almost a 1070 already. 2060 Super level would be the minimum you'd want out of a box that is meant to last 5-7 years.
 
FlintSpace

FlintSpace

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Oct 28, 2017
2,817
Ok so I watched the Ausin Evans handon vid about XSX and he says the resume function (amazing!) works in a way that it is saving stuff in the ssd. But these games were originally created for 2TF machines with much lesser memory than XSX. Can we expect this same snappy behavior at the end of next gen where games will be taking full advantage of every ounce of CPU and memory they got to offer. It's hard to think you can put every 4-5 heavy AAA game on resume functionality which is squeezing everything from the console.
 
TheNerdyOne

TheNerdyOne

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Oct 28, 2017
521
FlintSpace said:
Ok so I watched the Ausin Evans handon vid about XSX and he says the resume function (amazing!) works in a way that it is saving stuff in the ssd. But these games were originally created for 2TF machines with much lesser memory than XSX. Can we expect this same snappy behavior at the end of next gen where games will be taking full advantage of every ounce of CPU and memory they got to offer. It's hard to think you can put every 4-5 heavy AAA game on resume functionality which is squeezing everything from the console.
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yes, because its literally doing a savestate of everything in memory, so its dumping the whole 13.5GB, compressing it using their fancy hardware compression/decomrpession silicon, and saving it to the SSD, that process should take roughly 3 - 4 seconds, as should resuming said savestate, which is what we see (a total 5 - 8 second time for swapping) Makes no difference if its an xbox game, a 360 game, an xbox one game, or an XSX game. Its exactly how emulator savestates work, a full memory dump :) If we assume they allocate the same amount of ram for the emulator as the original machines had available, you could call it ~9GB for the xbox one games (x1x had about that available for games), vs 13.5 for XSX, so at most you could say fast resuming an XSX game would take an extra 1 - 2 seconds. Still snappy enough. Remember, the SSD on this thing can completely fill main memory in 5 seconds or less.
 

GhostofWar

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Apr 5, 2019
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tusharngf said:


time stamp


Moore law estimate the RAYTRACING performance of XSEX is roughly on par with 2080ti (almost 30% better).
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I don't follow how he goes from using a software based raytracing demo (rtx cards not using their hardware), adding the raster difference between a 5700 and the xsx to get 30% more peformance then we are 30% faster than 2080ti in hardware raytracing?
 
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