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Granadier

Member
Nov 4, 2018
1,605
There is also VRS which can give a nice performance boost. Machine learning upscaling and the gpu supports mesh shaders (which is a feature that gets rid of the index list for describing an object which makes the geometry processing fully parallelizable and thus the gpu can handle significantly higher poly counts)
Yes, very much this too. Thanks for bringing it up. I knew I'd forget something.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
Anyone have a mock up of a 360 edition?
That's my favorite design ever, someone convince Phill to make that a reality.
 

solis74

Member
Jun 11, 2018
43,538
The next generation leap of even having SSDs at all in both of these consoles, let alone custom designed I/O approaches that are more efficient for gaming workloads than anything in PCs currently due to the closed console system architectures, is the thing that makes it possible for game design to change. This quote below from one of the Xbox Series X system architects shows just how far they went looking at actual game profiling data (they had custom monitoring hardware in the Xbox One X silicon) to be sure that their end to end storage solution would meet the needs of how games actually run. And remember that the memory bandwidth difference (112 GB/s) between the two is far greater in terms of GB/s throughput as part of this pipeline than a several GB/s difference in drive decompression speed.

cool
 

MrDeveus

Member
Apr 26, 2019
833
Good Read

Powering Next-Generation Gaming Visuals with AMD RDNA 2 and DirectX 12 Ultimate

AMD has long been a strong supporter of next-generation, low-overhead graphics API technologies like Microsoft® DirectX® 12 that help take games to a whole new level. Therefore, we’re pleased to announce that in partnership with Microsoft we will provide full support for DirectX® 12 Ultimate in...

twitter.com

Radeon RX on Twitter

“We are pleased to announce that in partnership with Microsoft, @AMD will provide full support for the newly announced @DirectX12 Ultimate in our upcoming AMD RDNA 2 gaming architecture. Check out DXR raytracing running on AMD RDNA 2 Silicon in this demo.”

devblogs.microsoft.com

Announcing DirectX 12 Ultimate - DirectX Developer Blog

It is time for DirectX to evolve once again. From the team that has brought PC and Console gamers the latest in graphics innovation for nearly 25 years, we are beyond pleased to bring gamers DirectX 12 Ultimate, the culmination of the best graphics technology we’ve ever introduced in an...
 
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Scently

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,464
anexanhume Can't remember if it was you or DrKeo that was hoping Texture Space Shading would make it in these next-gen consoles in the speculation thread but it appears that it is supported. It is enabled by the use of the Sampler Feedback in DX12 Ult.
 

Scently

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,464
It was indeed me and, man, that's great news. Great news. TSS will be downright revolutionary for VR.

EDIT: TSS also works extremely well with RT.
Sorry yeah I remember now. It is you. Read it when going through what was revealed on DX12 Ult. Can you shed a bit more light on what its about? Curious to know the practical implications....
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,174
Somewhere South
Sorry yeah I remember now. It is you. Read it when going through what was revealed on DX12 Ult. Can you shed a bit more light on what its about? Curious to know the practical implications....

I'll quote myself from the the other thread:

It's pretty crazy, it's a fairly big change in real time rendering paradigm, moving away from shading in screen space and doing it in object space. You can read a pretty great primer here.

Big idea is that your shading isn't coupled to screen (and viewport) pixels anymore. You're now shading objects and storing the shades as textures. So, when you you're building your viewports, everything, all the geometry that shows in both only needs to be shaded once - and that will be the vast majority of stuff.

Since shading is decoupled from screen/viewport pixels, you can shade different objects at different rates - spatially and temporally. Say, everything that is far in the background can be shaded at lower resolution, or anything that is dark in color, or anything that is in your peripheric FoV - i.e. it can help with both VRS and foveated rendering. And, unlike VRS, since the shades are per object and persistent in memory, you can decide to shade some stuff at half, a quarter of the frequency only, reusing shades for the other frames.

It's pretty powerful. It has a higher initialization cost than normal rendering, but once you increase scene complexity a bit and make some use of optimization, it can get much, much cheaper.

It has several advantages beyond that, like much better efficiency working with micropolygons, better shader anti-aliasing and filtering, much better motion blur and depth of field.

For VR, the multiple viewports thing I mentioned means you can have VR with a very small hit to perf. For RT, you can shade everything that is mostly static once and free rays and shaders to work on other stuff.
 

Scently

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,464
I'll quote myself from the the other thread:



It has several advantages beyond that, like much better efficiency working with micropolygons, better shader anti-aliasing and filtering, much better motion blur and depth of field.

For VR, the multiple viewports thing I mentioned means you can have VR with a very small hit to perf. For RT, you can shade everything that is mostly static once and free rays and shaders to work on other stuff.
Oh yeah. Thanks. I remember the post. Seems like the upcoming generation isn't just about the power but the flexibility in using said power. Awesome stuff.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
I'll quote myself from the the other thread:



It has several advantages beyond that, like much better efficiency working with micropolygons, better shader anti-aliasing and filtering, much better motion blur and depth of field.

For VR, the multiple viewports thing I mentioned means you can have VR with a very small hit to perf. For RT, you can shade everything that is mostly static once and free rays and shaders to work on other stuff.
Awesome
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,174
Somewhere South
Oh yeah. Thanks. I remember the post. Seems like the upcoming generation isn't just about the power but the flexibility in using said power. Awesome stuff.

Yup, if you're doing things the traditional way, there's a lot more grunt to do that, but there's also the potential to adopt some radically new paradigms that will allow devs to push the limits. TSS is how rendering has been done in film with the REYES renderer, for instance. It's a more logical way of doing things, and now we have tech and grunt to pull it off in real time.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,256
they only ever show 3 out of the 4 sides of this thing, is the unseen side full of holes or something? horrible graffiti?
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
anexanhume Can't remember if it was you or DrKeo that was hoping Texture Space Shading would make it in these next-gen consoles in the speculation thread but it appears that it is supported. It is enabled by the use of the Sampler Feedback in DX12 Ult.

I don't think it's supported in Xsx. I read that dedicated silicon for TSS isn't much of a difference to doing it on the compute units.
 
Jun 10, 2018
1,060
OK, so I can do 120fps If I set the Series X to output 1080p? I only need HDMI 2.1 for 4k, VRR, and stuff like that?
Yes, you only need HDMI 2.1 for 4K @ 120fps. VRR does work over HDMI 2.0b, but many manufacturers don't support it. Xbox One already supports 1080p & 1440p @ 120hz, there just aren't any games that support 120fps on Xbox One (aside from Rainbow Six Siege which runs over 60fps when unlocking the frame rate).
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
The SSD is clearly worse than Sony's. And that's fine. I feel like the difference is really negligible. Honestly. Like loading up 4 seconds faster isn't enough for me. Both will enable big game design shifts and that's exciting
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,164
I wonder if people agree or think that there will be games on the PS5 not possible on the SX solely due to the faster SSD on the PS5.
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,657
The SSD is clearly worse than Sony's. And that's fine. I feel like the difference is really negligible. Honestly. Like loading up 4 seconds faster isn't enough for me. Both will enable big game design shifts and that's exciting

I wouldn't be surprised if the mid-gen refresh of the Series X improved on the SSD to be more on par with Sony's. So it's almost a moot point anyway.
 

Mad_Rhetoric

Banned
May 7, 2019
3,466
Yes, you only need HDMI 2.1 for 4K @ 120fps. VRR does work over HDMI 2.0b, but many manufacturers don't support it. Xbox One already supports 1080p & 1440p @ 120hz, there just aren't any games that support 120fps on Xbox One (aside from Rainbow Six Siege which runs over 60fps when unlocking the frame rate).

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
I wouldn't be surprised if the mid-gen refresh of the Series X improved on the SSD to be more on par with Sony's. So it's almost a moot point anyway.
Which again, points to devs. I don't think game design is going to radically change until year 2 or 3. Remember the PS4 sold 100 mil and we are heading into a recession
 

GING-SAMA

Banned
Jul 10, 2019
7,846
I wouldn't be surprised if the mid-gen refresh of the Series X improved on the SSD to be more on par with Sony's. So it's almost a moot point anyway.

With the Xbox velocity architecture, Microsoft gives the dev 100GB of game assets instantly.

Microsoft have made software/Hardware magic out of this technology. that means that the Raw speed will be much more efficient in the architecture of the XSX thanks to the velocity architecture.


Just wait ... a lot more details will come on this
 

space_nut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,311
NJ
With the Xbox velocity architecture, Microsoft gives the dev 100GB of game assets instantly.

Microsoft have made software/Hardware magic out of this technology. that means that the Raw speed will be much more efficient in the architecture of the XSX thanks to the velocity architecture.


Just wait ... a lot more details will come on this

:)
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
With the Xbox velocity architecture, Microsoft gives the dev 100GB of game assets instantly.

Microsoft have made software/Hardware magic out of this technology. that means that the Raw speed will be much more efficient in the architecture of the XSX thanks to the velocity architecture.


Just wait ... a lot more details will come on this
Velocity Architecture is just a fancy name for a scratchpad cache that basically all SSDs do. There's a long list of cooler innovations in XSX IMO (DLI, multi-game suspend, Smart Delivery, auto HDR, enhanced boost mode, selectable SMT, ML, RT, VRS, etc.) I would be stunned if they didn't have a scratchpad with an SSD.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Velocity Architecture is just a fancy name for a scratchpad cache that basically all SSDs do. There's a long list of cooler innovations in XSX IMO (DLI, multi-game suspend, Smart Delivery, auto HDR, enhanced boost mode, selectable SMT, ML, RT, VRS, etc.) I would be stunned if they didn't have a scratchpad with an SSD.

See this is where I'm confused. Regardless as to whether all SSDs do it, isn't it a big deal? It can be used as an extension of the memory and reduce a lot of CPU workload needed normally for decompression. Allows the machine to render a lot more on the screen quickly.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
See this is where I'm confused. Regardless as to whether all SSDs do it, isn't it a big deal? It can be used as an extension of the memory and reduce a lot of CPU workload needed normally for decompression. Allows the machine to render a lot more on the screen quickly.
Yes, and both machines do it because it's one of the most obvious benefits of an SSD. It's not a differentiating factor like some of the other things I pointed out.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
Microsoft made a lot of fancy names for a tech which both consoles (and PC RDNA2) support.
They even talk about SSD like a memory extension a lot.
But this is a very old concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_memory
Virtual memory is new for gaming. On PC it's a fallback, on consoles it's going to be a tool.

www.resetera.com

PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST] OT

unless they are doing a universal launch. Jim Ryan of Sony has already hinted that they are. Plus, PlayStation Japan tweeted about a holiday 2020 launch. If that’s the case, they’ll have to start manufacturing well before June.
 
Sep 19, 2019
2,366
Hamburg- Germany
Virtual memory is new for gaming. On PC it's a fallback, on consoles it's going to be a tool.

www.resetera.com

PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST] OT

unless they are doing a universal launch. Jim Ryan of Sony has already hinted that they are. Plus, PlayStation Japan tweeted about a holiday 2020 launch. If that’s the case, they’ll have to start manufacturing well before June.

Great read, thank you !
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
Velocity Architecture is just a fancy name for a scratchpad cache that basically all SSDs do. There's a long list of cooler innovations in XSX IMO (DLI, multi-game suspend, Smart Delivery, auto HDR, enhanced boost mode, selectable SMT, ML, RT, VRS, etc.) I would be stunned if they didn't have a scratchpad with an SSD.

I get the impression that the Velocity Architecture might be a bit more than that.

www.pcworld.com

The backbone of the Xbox Series X’s ultra-fast storage technology is coming to Windows

Microsoft confirms that DirectStorage, part of the Xbox Series X Velocity Architecture, will arrive on Windows 10 gaming PCs in the future.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
I get the impression that the Velocity Architecture might be a bit more than that.

www.pcworld.com

The backbone of the Xbox Series X’s ultra-fast storage technology is coming to Windows

Microsoft confirms that DirectStorage, part of the Xbox Series X Velocity Architecture, will arrive on Windows 10 gaming PCs in the future.
It's an assemblage of hardware and software tricks. At its core, it's a NAND cache. Without that, everything else would be pretty lame on its own. They count on the orders of magnitude of bandwidth differential a SSD can deliver.