User Banned (1 week): ignoring the staff post
Bloomberg is still the shitier choice.I love Bernie but at this point, literally anyone - outside of maybe Bloomberg - would be a better choice.
Bloomberg is still the shitier choice.I love Bernie but at this point, literally anyone - outside of maybe Bloomberg - would be a better choice.
We on the "left" aren't telling anyone to do anything.
At worst some of us are simply going by the logic of "lets see what else drops before making judgement". You are sorely mistaken if you think we like Biden, or even want him. We need more details and more information before jumping to any conclusions. Let's listen to her and take her allegation seriously. Corroborate where/if we can, ask around where we can't and see if some more shoes drop and/or others come out.
At the end of the day, if this turns into he said/she said it is difficult to see this moving the needle. Irrespective of whether he did or did not do it getting action as drastic as "step down from the race" with just her word against his is incredibly difficult. It took numerous people and courage just to bring Weinstein to his knees. Hell look at R. Kelly; his disgusting behavior was an open secret and it took almost a decade after the initial accounts to finally land the killing blow. If you take a swing at someone like a presidential candidate...you best not miss.
This issue, spread over various threads, has exposed what progressives on this forum already knew:
Most of the membership here are rank and file moderate Democrats who lean in hard regarding identity politics but who also seem to fall into formation with neoliberalism, corporatism, imperialistic military intervention, etc.
Go to a real progressive space and you won't see people praising Hillary Clinton or hand-waiving away Obama's illegal and egregious use of drone strikes.
It is what it is.
We have a separate thread where you can make this point.Hate Biden, HATE HIM.
but if he is the presumptive nominee, any progressive American allowing Trump to continue as president for four more years is actively going to make life worse for most people in their own country, its neighbours and the world.
Liberals don't like being told that they aren't the most progressive ones in the room.This issue, spread over various threads, has exposed what progressives on this forum already knew:
Most of the membership here are rank and file moderate Democrats who lean in hard regarding identity politics but who also seem to fall into formation with neoliberalism, corporatism, imperialistic military intervention, etc.
Go to a real progressive space and you won't see people praising Hillary Clinton or hand-waiving away Obama's illegal and egregious use of drone strikes.
It is what it is.
Probably not and they probably won't until they absolutely have to. That is to say when it's on the cover of the Post, NY/LA Times. When Maddow or Lemon asks them about it in an interview and they can't simply get up and walk away.
They certainly had no problem drumming Franken out for less serious accusations.
Yes, a few years back the legal definition had changed from forced intercourse to any kind of forced penetration.
This issue, spread over various threads, has exposed what progressives on this forum already knew:
Most of the membership here are rank and file moderate Democrats who lean in hard regarding identity politics but who also seem to fall into formation with neoliberalism, corporatism, imperialistic military intervention, etc.
Go to a real progressive space and you won't see people praising Hillary Clinton or hand-waiving away Obama's illegal and egregious use of drone strikes.
It is what it is.
Okay, hope this doesn't count as a derail or something but what is the staff post these were ignoring?
Bottom of every page.Okay, hope this doesn't count as a derail or something but what is the staff post these were ignoring?
Oh, thought it meant an actual post, was wondering what post I'd missed that people were getting banned for.
Probably not and they probably won't until they absolutely have to. That is to say when it's on the cover of the Post, NY/LA Times. When Maddow or Lemon asks them about it in an interview and they can't simply get up and walk away.
I mean, once it gets past the primaries, it is functionally the same. It's the biggest flaw(of many) of First Past the Post voting systems. I don't want Biden out of just about all the Democratic candidates, but if he wins the primaries(I'm voting Sanders), and you keep from voting, you are effectively giving more power to the votes of the person whose political values are further from your own(assuming they aren't dealing with roughly the same issue with their voter base - which you know for a fact they aren't).This shit needs to stop. Not voting for someone is not giving their opponent a vote.
Howard Dean has, but it wasn't pretty
It was reported by Newsweek, Vox, Yahoo, Huffington post and other mainstream places. I'm assuming WaPo and NYT are just writing something bigger which is why we haven't heard from them..Howard Dean has, but it wasn't pretty
Not sure about anyone else, and I doubt any former candidates even want to touch this. All their heads will be in the sand until the news cycle has moved on, Trump has done something else egregious, or what have you. The story hasn't really gone anywhere past more leftist/progressive circles as far as I've seen.
Edit: Unless you mean newspaper endorsements, then I'm not sure.
"Unaware the definition had been updated"I am wrong. I was unaware that the definition had been updated. Disregard said post.
Lol you're an idiot and don't know what you're talking about. Everyone sees you trying to downplay this.Yes, a few years back the legal definition had changed from forced intercourse to any kind of forced penetration.
Howard Dean has, but it wasn't pretty
Not sure about anyone else, and I doubt any former candidates even want to touch this. All their heads will be in the sand until the news cycle has moved on, Trump has done something else egregious, or what have you. The story hasn't really gone anywhere past more leftist/progressive circles as far as I've seen.
Edit: Unless you mean newspaper endorsements, then I'm not sure.
I hope they're taking their time so it's not just another's regurgitation of what we already know, there's definitely more to the story than thisIt was reported by Newsweek, Vox, Yahoo, Huffington post and other mainstream places. I'm assuming WaPo and NYT are just writing something bigger which is why we haven't heard from them..
Hopefully
Who cares if they're posting a "regurgitation". I'd rather everyone do this than simply nothing, effectively silencing Reade.I hope they're taking their time so it's not just another's regurgitation of what we already know, there's definitely more to the story than this
Everytime we get a new publication, we learn more. Whether it be Vox or Newsweek.You know everyone in here berating the major news outlets for not throwing together an article in 24 hours is the exact issue with modern journalism.
This isn't Gawker. Let them do their job because it'll be much more effective when they can nail down details and corroborate statements, get others on record instead of just re-reporting what's already out there.
This whole 'some people are saying' or 'according to x outlet' is not independently fact-checking which is what we all ought to be demanding of media. Get the story right not fast when it's this big. Because if a couple of details are wrong it'll undo the impact and lead to people hand-waiving the story.
I can promise you the NYT/Wapo/CNN are not ignoring this in a willful act to protect Biden. This is a major story and if you are the journo that can nail this story it's career making.
Larger, influential papers with a diverse range of readers have a chance to either persuade or dissuade a large amount of people based on the amount and quality of evidence or vetting presented, and if we want anything to come from this it's going to take pressure from within the Democratic establishment. It would be more helpful if those types of papers present a stronger, thoroughly researched and vetted piece than very basic, "dismissible" claims. Otherwise you're going to get a lot more Howard Dean-types becoming attack dogs in defense of Biden, and the story won't catch. There are many people willing to give Biden the benefit of the doubt.Who cares if they're posting a "regurgitation". I'd rather everyone do this than simply nothing, effectively silencing Reade.
I think it should be thoroughly reported by those who have the ability to do more, but I also think it's an extremely bad look for no one on TV to be discussing what's already been reported from the victim herself/corroboration from her brother and friend who backed it up.Larger, influential papers with a diverse range of readers have a chance to either persuade or dissuade a large amount of people based on the amount and quality of evidence or vetting presented, and if we want anything to come from this it's going to take pressure from within the Democratic establishment then it would be more helpful if those types of papers present a stronger, thoroughly researched and vetted piece that pulls from a lot more than we already know. Otherwise you're going to get a lot more Howard Dean's becoming attack dogs in defense of Biden, and the story won't catch. There are many people willing to give Biden the benefit of the doubt.
That's a great article. Took the liberty of threadmarking this.Newsweek is covering it. It's also a really good article. Probably the best yet
Joe Biden's sexual assault accuser wants to be able to speak out without fear of "powerful men"
"These accusations are false," said Deputy Campaign Manager and Communications Director Kate Bedingfield.www.newsweek.com
And, even stronger, which apparently was in the Intercept article but I don't actually recall reading a few days ago --- but it appears it was updated later, and it's a very important detail:"These clearly false allegations are in complete contradiction to both the inner workings of our Senate office and to the man I know and worked so closely with for almost two decades," Baker said.
That assertion runs contrary to Reade's own account: she says that while Baker may not have been aware of the alleged sexual assault, she was aware of Biden's uncomfortable behavior.
So, two people corroborate that she told them of the incident at the time. We can definitely rule out the idea that this is a recent, politically-motivated, out-of-nowhere accusation.At the time of the alleged incident, Reade says, she told her mother, brother and a friend who had been working in Sen. Ted Kennedy's office about what happened.
While her mother has since passed away, The Intercept spoke with both Reade's friend and her brother. The friend, who requested anonymity over fears of retribution, said she had discouraged Reade from coming forward because she did not believe she would see justice.
Reade's brother, Collin Moulton, said their mother had told his sister to call the police. However, her brother acknowledged that he had urged his sister to move past it, telling her "let it go" and "move on" because "guys are idiots."
"Woefully, I did not encourage her to follow up," Moulton, who said he voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 and did not plan to vote for either Biden or President Donald Trump, told The Intercept. "I wasn't one of her better advocates."
Yeah this is one of the points I've been trying to make. Her story has been corroborated by her brother and close friend. And if Vox, Newsweek and HuffPo (edit: and now The Guardian) feel comfortable enough to at least report on what we have, I'm not sure what news networks excuses are to not play it on TV.That's a great article. Took the liberty of threadmarking this.
Two important parts, that boost her credibility IMO:
And, even stronger, which apparently was in the Intercept article but I don't actually recall reading a few days ago --- but it appears it was updated later, and it's a very important detail:
So, two people corroborate that she told them of the incident at the time. We can definitely rule out the idea that this is a recent, politically-motivated, out-of-nowhere accusation.
I really, really hope more outlets start covering this. I'm concerned some might be too cowardly though.
Threadmarking this too.The Guardian has a piece on the media silence
Why has the media ignored sexual assault and misbehaviour allegations against Biden? | Feminism | The Guardian
Conservatives who didn’t care about the multiple sexual assault allegations against Trump have seized on the accusations while liberals turn a blind eyeamp.theguardian.com
The Guardian has a piece on the media silence
Why has the media ignored sexual assault and misbehaviour allegations against Biden? | Feminism | The Guardian
Conservatives who didn’t care about the multiple sexual assault allegations against Trump have seized on the accusations while liberals turn a blind eyeamp.theguardian.com
What are you on about?Lol you're an idiot and don't know what you're talking about. Everyone sees you trying to downplay this.
It's nice that they're not only highlighting the accusation itself but also the media silence. Good shit.The Guardian has a piece on the media silence
Why has the media ignored sexual assault and misbehaviour allegations against Biden? | Feminism | The Guardian
Conservatives who didn’t care about the multiple sexual assault allegations against Trump have seized on the accusations while liberals turn a blind eyeamp.theguardian.com
Really hope this starts picking up some steam. The media can't ignore this foreverThe Guardian has a piece on the media silence
Why has the media ignored sexual assault and misbehaviour allegations against Biden? | Feminism | The Guardian
Conservatives who didn’t care about the multiple sexual assault allegations against Trump have seized on the accusations while liberals turn a blind eyeamp.theguardian.com
Didn't notice this, what a look. Edit: either the CNN link was removed or it's broken in the Guardian article. WeirdRightwing news outlets have gleefully seized upon the accusations against Biden; the story has also been discussed by leftwing commentators. However, the mainstream media has largely ignored the allegations. Instead there have been headlines like The top 10 women Joe Biden might pick as VP (CNN) and Joe Biden's inner circle: No longer a boy's club (AP).
some very cool and normal stuff we got going on hereThe Intercept further notes that "the public relations firm that works on behalf of the Time's Up Legal Defense Fund is SKDKnickerbocker, whose managing director, Anita Dunn, is the top adviser to Biden's presidential campaign".
They have already responded asking for a thorough investigation.I'm sure Biden's people are playing up the "he's the presumed candidate. Please work with us while we are mobilizing our response. (subtext: We could be the President next, so you don't want to cross us or fuck us over.)"
Wow, what now?
Assuming she is telling the truth and Time's Up is lying...Can you explain to me what the management director of a PR firm that works for the Time's Up Legal Defense Fund would have done?
And called her a liarThey have already responded asking for a thorough investigation.
Assuming she is telling the truth and Time's Up is lying...Can you explain to me what the management director of a PR firm that works for the Time's Up Legal Defense Fund would have done?
This is to say, Anita Dunn doesn't appear to have any actual power there, being ...third party PR.
So this looks to be casting aspersions on Anita Dunn's character because she works for t he Biden Campaign as if she were orchestrating some kind of cover-up.
Is that what you're saying here?
Who is "you people" again? Please explain this to me.What world do you people live in!?
They called for an investigation, they are denying the allegations. Maybe she is lying, maybe she's telling the truth.
Taking these kinds of accusations seriously DOES NOT equal automatic assumptions of guilt, and so many of the people online who feel the need to just throw down their hot takes only muddy the waters.
Take sexual assault claims seriously, investigate them, wait for the facts, then make a conclusion.
Carefully explain to me how you can both not be calling someone a liar while explicitly stating that their very specific and detailed accusations are false.Biden's campaign on Friday denied Reade's allegation. "Women have a right to tell their story, and reporters have an obligation to rigorously vet those claims," deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield said in a statement. "We encourage them to do so, because these accusations are false."