Youtube video - "My Indie Game Launch was a Failure - Steam Sales Numbers & Lessons Learned" (Summit)

[Paroni]

This video popped in my recommended feed and I think people here could find it interesting especially since there has been talk about competition in the indie spaces and the many, many inevitable losers the market has. It is a recent video by Dominik Hackl about his debut indie game Summit, which he released last year and which just simply failed. As I am writing this the game has accumulated 3 user reviews in a bit over a year. The video is his quite honest reflection on how badly the game did, why, and what kind of lessons he is taking from it. Good for him that he doesn't seem to be demoralized and is going to keep making games.

My Indie Game Launch was a Failure - Steam Sales Numbers & Lessons Learned

Summit on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1492120/Summit/After a little over a year after I launched my 2D Metroidvania Summit I wanted to do a ret...

www.youtube.com

The game in question:

View: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1492120/Summit/

 

[PinguThePenguin]

The biggest issue I see is the art style, and I'm glad he mentioned it in his youtube post. It just lacked appeal. Could be a really great game, but that smooth, newgrounds-like flash texture just won't bring in the audience.

 

[Prototype]

Just seeing the first few seconds of the trailer and I feel like the snow could make me blind. Immediatly turned off to even give it a chance.

 

[MorshuTheTrader]

The biggest issue I see is the art style, and I'm glad he mentioned it in his youtube post. It just lacked appeal. Could be a really great game, but that smooth, newgrounds-like flash texture just won't bring in the audience.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. A lot of 'gameplay is king' people may disagree, but the way your game looks is very important. There are so many new games coming out every day, and games aren't something that are easy to sample. That means most people will make an immediate judgement based on how your game looks in screenshots/maybe a short trailer.

 

[Ingueferroque]

No Steam Achievements usually means I stop learning more about the game.

 

[Anno]

The biggest issue I see is the art style, and I'm glad he mentioned it in his youtube post. It just lacked appeal. Could be a really great game, but that smooth, newgrounds-like flash texture just won't bring in the audience.

Click to shrink...

Yeah it's rough going into that genre with art that at best just doesn't attract any sort of attention.

I'll check out the video after work because I like these kind of post-mortems. I wonder if there was any sort of marketing at all, because accumulating like 60 followers in 2.5 years on Steam before release is rough.

 

[Godfather]

I haven't watched the video yet, but I have to agree that the art style would have turned me off from trying it.
The Metroidvania indie space is also just crammed with good games, so that'll be even harder to stand out in.

 

[Mirage]

I am not a fan of those character designs.

 

[Uzzy]

Agreed. A lot of 'gameplay is king' people may disagree, but the way your game looks is very important. There are so many new games coming out every day, and games aren't something that are easy to sample. That means most people will make an immediate judgement based on how your game looks in screenshots/maybe a short trailer.

Click to shrink...

As someone who does actually go through the list of all upcoming games on Steam for my monthly PC Gaming ERA threads, this is absolutely the case for me, at least when I'm browsing down that list. There's hundreds of games coming out every month so if the look of a game doesn't stand out other qualities it may have are going to get overlooked.

 

[Shemhazai]

In the nicest way possible, looking at the footage, I can completely understand why this failed so hard.
Like, on the surface, it's the perfect storm of:
- Unappealing visually
- Does nothing new in a market oversaturated with Metroid-likes
- Had no real marketing

It might be that there's something special there, but you can't just drop something derivative of a seemingly low quality and expect people to want to buy it. You need at least ONE of the above qualities to shine through. If you have bad art, then make sure you have something unique on your hands and drive that USP home (e.g. Dwarf Fortress). If you do nothing knew, then your game needs to either look great in the art department or it needs a shit ton of marketing. If you have no marketing, then... well... you get the picture.

 

[Jebusman]

This is going to be such a nitpick, but I also think labeling a game as a "classic 2D Metroidvania" right from the get go is a bad move.

Like someone might feel like it's a really quick way to get across what your game is like, but it does a disservice to you in that you can't describe your game without gestering towards others, and it immediately sets expectations that you can't meet.

 

[nsilvias]

yeah ugly bland art and oversaturated genre is a killer. alot of the ugly popular indie games at least have a hook like that one indie thats just black paper witg color pencil scribbles art style

 

[Loud Wrong]

No reviews on meta but at least has an entry. Opencritic has no entry for it. If you want people to know about your game, make sure reviewers know about it.

 

[poptire]

This video terrifies me. I'm trying to make a game now and was initially thinking Metroidvania, but that market is so crowded I switched gears and want to do something similar to what he said -- focus on a mechanic and go in-depth with it.

 

[Odinsmana]

No reviews on meta but at least has an entry. Opencritic has no entry for it. If you want people to know about your game, make sure reviewers know about it.

Click to shrink...

Game reviewers do not have the capacity to review every game out there. User reviews, internet ads and word of mouth is what they must rely on.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

This video terrifies me. I'm trying to make a game now and was initially thinking Metroidvania, but that market is so crowded I switched gears and want to do something similar to what he said -- focus on a mechanic and go in-depth with it.

Click to shrink...

This is definitely an issue. I gotta be honest, I'm so oversaturated on Metroidvania games that if a game doesn't have a clear and appealing hook right out of the gate that I can instantly see in a single screenshot or trailer, I'm not gonna bother. There's TOO MANY people making games in that genre and so few of them actually do anything exceptionally.

 

[fantalas]

yeah ugly bland art and oversaturated genre is a killer. alot of the ugly popular indie games at least have a hook like that one indie thats just black paper witg color pencil scribbles art style

Click to shrink...

Virtually every genre is oversaturated. The ones that are not are niche genres, with proportionately smaller playerbases.

 

[Rosebud]

No reviews on meta but at least has an entry. Opencritic has no entry for it. If you want people to know about your game, make sure reviewers know about it.

Click to shrink...

A lot of successful indie games don't have professional reviews

 

[Cenauru]

I'd say good on him for getting a game out there, and giving himself the room to fail and learn.

For my honest opinion, it looks incredibly unappealing to me and I can see why it is for others too, the art-style being a huge one.

 

[Mirage]

A lot of successful indie games don't have professional reviews

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Or only get them after they've become popular.

 

[Lulu]

Suburban dad simulator

 

[mrtanooki]

Like others have said i think the biggest issue was art style. I don't mind the art style but i can see how many would find it unappealing.

 

[poptire]

This is definitely an issue. I gotta be honest, I'm so oversaturated on Metroidvania games that if a game doesn't have a clear and appealing hook right out of the gate that I can instantly see in a single screenshot or trailer, I'm not gonna bother. There's TOO MANY people making games in that genre and so few of them actually do anything exceptionally.

Click to shrink...

And as others have said, this particular art style isn't super appealing. I hate that. He obviously spent a lot of time on the game and cared about it. Sucks that passion isn't always rewarded.

 

[nsilvias]

Virtually every genre is oversaturated. The ones that are not are niche genres, with proportionately smaller playerbases.

Click to shrink...

fine overstaurated in the moment. if you go back a decade metroidvania fans would be hurting for new games lol

 

[DarthMasta]

This video terrifies me. I'm trying to make a game now and was initially thinking Metroidvania, but that market is so crowded I switched gears and want to do something similar to what he said -- focus on a mechanic and go in-depth with it.

Click to shrink...

You gotta decide what you're trying to do.

Are you making a game for "fun", because it's your dream, an hobby, as a learning experience, all of that? Go nuts, do whatever, you might just get lucky and get some money out of it, maybe even a lot, like Vampire Survivors, but don't bet on it

Is it to make money so you can eat? Fuck your dream game, do something that might sell, do your homework, see what sells, instead of a Metroidvania, maybe you should be making something more like Rimworld.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Art style and direction are so very important for any game to have appeal. Bad Art™ is a thing, and this game is a prime example of it.

There's a reason why this looks highly appealing:

And why something like this looks terrifyingly depressive and unappealing:

And if you don't have an eye for it, or artists that do, then people aren't going to be drawn in. This is the modern equivalent of NES programmers who thought they could also compose music. Good artists are hard to get by and cruelly underrated. If you can't do good art yourself, get someone who can.

 

[Vexii]

I'll need to watch the video but I've launched two games in the last couple of months, and my biggest takeaway was this:

2D Art is hard - REAL hard. For 2D you need to have an appealing style that immediately stands out, and tbh I'd say it's even harder making your first game 2D as opposed to going "realistic" 3D using the lighting systems that are baked into modern game engines. Middling 3D is much easier to make (and to make palatable to the general audience) than amazing 2D is.

You also need to be advertising your game constantly. If you go into advertising only a month or two before you launch, you'll have a hard, hard time - This was the case for both of my games tbh because I turned them around so quickly in both cases, but I leaned on Keymailer for both press and influencer contacts and they got me pretty darn far given the price I paid for both advertising packages.

Once the game is out, especially if you don't have a large following gained by advertising your game super early on, you need to then be actively jumping into almost every time that someone is streaming your game. I'd say that maybe 1/3 of my sales were generated by being active in influencer's audiences, and maybe over half of the people who interact with me regularly on Discord were for the same reason - If you're a new dev people love that you're coming in, talking about the game, sharing space with them, etc. I've also used this to start streaming myself too - both game development and other activities to further foster that community.

All of this has gotten me ~$19k in net sales across both games, and it took way, way more work than I ever even dreamt. Almost all of this is on Steam. I'd argue that the mental load of launching on other storefronts for Indies that aren't pulling in $100,000s p/a probably shouldn't even bother with trying to manage other storefronts. Just stick with Steam - It's the only place you stand a chance getting any visibility whatsoever.

When I get a chance I'll check out the video proper and I'll see if I can further break down what went wrong in this person's case and give some further insight based on what I learn there too

 

[poptire]

You gotta decide what you're trying to do.

Are you making a game for "fun", because it's your dream, an hobby, as a learning experience, all of that? Go nuts, do whatever, you might just get lucky and get some money out of it, maybe even a lot, like Vampire Survivors, but don't bet on it

Is it to make money so you can eat? Fuck your dream game, do something that might sell, do your homework, see what sells, instead of a Metroidvania, maybe you should be making something more like Rimworld.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I agree. For me, ideally it would be both initially. I like Metroidvanias and want to learn, so I figured I could simultaneously do those things. But it's such a big time commitment that, especially after this video, I'm going to shift away from that genre.

 

[Duffking]

No reviews on meta but at least has an entry. Opencritic has no entry for it. If you want people to know about your game, make sure reviewers know about it.

Click to shrink...

Bit of a jump to assume "no reviews" means that the developer didn't reach out to outlets to get one. Safer to assume they did because it's such an obvious thing to do, and that there were just so many that they weren't able to get noticed without a publisher or other kind of buzz.

 

[julia crawford]

I wish it was possible for people to make games as a hobby and not be subject to their success as sellable products. I understand wanting to get profit from the things you create, but i feel like hobbyist videogame making is very bent on turning some kind of profit to justify the investment, whereas other kinds of artistic hobbies don't seem to have the same fixation. Congrats to Dominic Hackl for building and launching something, that's always a success. But like... i'm a hobbyist photographer and i don't have any expectation of making money from it, i just want to create things and put them out there, and i see a lot of people doing the same, and it ends up being this thing where lots of community events happen and friendships happen, because it's evident that what's most important is that people are enjoying their hobby and their fellow hobbyists. And i'll be honest there are a lot more people putting photos out there than videogames on steam. But we're not competing for a livelihood. Most of us are amateurs pressing buttons because it gives us the right and the excuse to look more attentively at something.

I really want there to be a space for amateur game development to survive and for people to be happy with it. I guess we already have lots of jams that are explicitely about that, but then it seems like sometimes games that are successeful jam entries turn into commercial products, thus robbing them from the freedom of just being amateur products. There is power in amateurship, there is power in not having to build a life from your art. But indie games seem to be particularly afflicted by sidehustle obssessiveness moreso than other hobbies.

 

[spam musubi]

And as others have said, this particular art style isn't super appealing. I hate that. He obviously spent a lot of time on the game and cared about it. Sucks that passion isn't always rewarded.

Click to shrink...

I think indie developers see the success of their games as "what about my game is going to draw people" but the reality is that the better approach is "why should someone play my game instead of something else". Fundamentally every game is competing for the finite attention of the collective market. Making a good game is in no way a guarantee of success unfortunately. There is no reason at all for passion to be rewarded. It's a competitive market unfortunately.

 

[KillstealWolf]

So immediately when I look at this, and not get turned off by the artstyle. If I were wanting to ascend a mountain summit. Why aren't I playing Celeste?

The difference is this is a roguelike instead of a platformer, but then my next thought on that is "Why would I want to head back down the mountain?"

 

[Vexii]

Yeah, I agree. For me, ideally it would be both initially. I like Metroidvanias and want to learn, so I figured I could simultaneously do those things. But it's such a big time commitment that, especially after this video, I'm going to shift away from that genre.

Click to shrink...

It's very sad, but a lot of experienced devs will tell anyone starting out that trying to make your "dream game" as your first, third, fifth project is probably just going to end in tragedy. For a lot of people starting out you really need to focus on getting something small and easily turned around out as quickly as possible so that you don't waste too much time or energy on it. Do this a handful of times until you have a small variety of games that have each built a bit of traction and then reevaluate.

Personally, I would say keep doing this until your monthly sales start to match your cost of living, and then start planning out the scope of that "dream game".

Of course some people do make their dream game the first time and they somehow nail it, but I've seen so many people and anecdotes in just the year of devving that I've done that it's a very clear and dangerous pitfall, especially because a lot of first time devs just don't have a feel for what it actually means to make a game, let alone make it good, let alone make it something that people want to play, let alone make it bug free, etc.

 

[Jump_Button]

This is why you should have scope from the start and you should always start small more so if you leaning still and just get it done, Dont keep adding ideas

 

[DarthMasta]

Yeah, I agree. For me, ideally it would be both initially. I like Metroidvanias and want to learn, so I figured I could simultaneously do those things. But it's such a big time commitment that, especially after this video, I'm going to shift away from that genre.

Click to shrink...

Hey, look at this dude and more stuff that he's done, might help, he does some analysis of stuff that sells the most, and how to market stuff right, but it was one year ago, and things move fast.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2bpxd-EJw

 

[XaviConcept]

The issue isnt the art style, its the art execution. That style could work but the outcome was low quality.

However, indie games are in an impossible position to succeed. You have to be GOTY material to even get a look or win the lottery and get on gamepass because good luck convincing people to give you 5 bucks when theyre now used to getting shit for free.

Go on Steam right now, there are hundreds of games coming out weekly and there are thousands having a sale ... how the hell are you supposed to survive in an environment like that.

There is absolutely too much supply and not enough demand

 

[Yam's]

Interesting and very honest video. Doing a metroidvania as a first game was bound to be a very hard task. I'm not sure the art style would have changed that much the outcome as the animations and movements also needed more work, especially as he chose a human hero. The game simply doesn't look very fun to play. Obviously the graphics play an import part in a MV too, you need a world players actually want to explore, but yeah the way everything moves is kinda cheap looking.

Also harsh to see the average time players gave the game was only 26 minutes. You really need to impress right away.

 

[Ouroboros]

Artwork and the character and enemy animations are very bland. Come for the presenation, stay for the gameplay. That is my mind works.

 

[Davey Cakes]

As people have said, the game has an unappealing style in a genre that's flooded. And believe me, I see plenty of GORGEOUS looking Metroidvanias that still don't cut the cheese with gameplay or substance. The game is cheap, but sometimes it's not always about the low barrier of entry. I want a remarkable experience.

 

[gundalf]

I for one actually watched the video and while he acknowledges all the shortcomings, it is disappointing that he still insist working on his own on the art.

Being totally honest here, I only know few devs who can code and create appealing art and all of them are artist at core who just happen to have an easy time with programming, if you ain't that, than forget about it and hire/collab with dedicated artist.

 

[underFlorence]

I wish it was possible for people to make games as a hobby and not be subject to their success as sellable products. I understand wanting to get profit from the things you create, but i feel like hobbyist videogame making is very bent on turning some kind of profit to justify the investment, whereas other kinds of artistic hobbies don't seem to have the same fixation. Congrats to Dominic Hackl for building and launching something, that's always a success. But like... i'm a hobbyist photographer and i don't have any expectation of making money from it, i just want to create things and put them out there, and i see a lot of people doing the same, and it ends up being this thing where lots of community events happen and friendships happen, because it's evident that what's most important is that people are enjoying their hobby and their fellow hobbyists. And i'll be honest there are a lot more people putting photos out there than videogames on steam. But we're not competing for a livelihood. Most of us are amateurs pressing buttons because it gives us the right and the excuse to look more attentively at something.

I really want there to be a space for amateur game development to survive and for people to be happy with it. I guess we already have lots of jams that are explicitely about that, but then it seems like sometimes games that are successeful jam entries turn into commercial products, thus robbing them from the freedom of just being amateur products. There is power in amateurship, there is power in not having to build a life from your art. But indie games seem to be particularly afflicted by sidehustle obssessiveness moreso than other hobbies.

Click to shrink...

I feel like the fangame and romhacking space are exactly that. The thing about game dev is that it basically combines so many disciplines that by the time you have something presentable you've put so much time into it that it's like yeah this should be something it'd be nice to get paid for.

On the other hand if you're starting with something fundamentally derivative, i.e. making custom levels for Super Mario World, you don't need to worry about the engine or the graphics or sound, you can just focus on design. And you can go crazy with custom graphics or custom mechanics but you can also just make something that could've been in the base game, and I think that's the best space to find that sort of hobbyist game dev. That and game jams, as you've mentioned.

 

[poptire]

It's very sad, but a lot of experienced devs will tell anyone starting out that trying to make your "dream game" as your first, third, fifth project is probably just going to end in tragedy. For a lot of people starting out you really need to focus on getting something small and easily turned around out as quickly as possible so that you don't waste too much time or energy on it. Do this a handful of times until you have a small variety of games that have each built a bit of traction and then reevaluate.

Personally, I would say keep doing this until your monthly sales start to match your cost of living, and then start planning out the scope of that "dream game".

Of course some people do make their dream game the first time and they somehow nail it, but I've seen so many people and anecdotes in just the year of devving that I've done that it's a very clear and dangerous pitfall, especially because a lot of first time devs just don't have a feel for what it actually means to make a game, let alone make it good, let alone make it something that people want to play, let alone make it bug free, etc.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I definitely have a "grand" idea that I'd like to turn into a game someday. But I can't imagine jumping into that right off the bat. I'm also doing my own graphics and sound design, so starting off simple is imperative.

It sucks that the person from the YouTube video had to learn this the hard way. But, fortunately for him, he's gained a ton of knowledge.

 

[Shatty McKracken]

Agreed. A lot of 'gameplay is king' people may disagree, but the way your game looks is very important. There are so many new games coming out every day, and games aren't something that are easy to sample. That means most people will make an immediate judgement based on how your game looks in screenshots/maybe a short trailer.

Click to shrink...

I'm definitely an admitted graphics whore. I'm definitely not in the gameplay is king above all camp. They're called VIDEO games for a reason. Fidelity and how a game looks is just as important to me. I do agree though that art style can trump graphical fidelity and pixel count if the gameplay is there. And I also agree you can polish up a turd and its still a turd.

 

[Stalker]

I thinkt he game is profoundly ugly tbh outside of that it looks like another run of the mill metroidvania without a compelling hook.

 

[DarthMasta]

Your game doesn't need to look special at all, you just need to be lucky enough and special enough that even though your visuals aren't all that great, it still works.

Problem is, most games, they're just regular games, and anything that you put between the game and the buyer, it's going to pile up. You need to make something special for people to go for it, even if the visuals are bad. Or go for a genre where bad visuals aren't much of an issue, because it's always been that way, or there are so few games that it doesn't matter how bad it looks, people will still want it, because there's nothing like it.

 

[Santar]

The thing so many game developers, especially small ones, fail to realize is "why would anyone buy your game?"
What is your game doing that will make someone want to play it over all the other ones in the genre?
Like if you are making a metroidvania you have to have a hook. Something you actually believe you are doing better than other games.

 

[Lilly-Anne]

A lot of successful indie games don't have professional reviews

Click to shrink...

Hell, goddamn Hollow Knight of all things had like 10 or less professional reviews before the Switch port (despite being of the most well review games in Steam reviews before that). It's rough out there.

 

[Vivian-Pogo]

Step 1 should have been making a better Steam Capsule. If I or anyone else see this:

I'm not clicking. Nothing about it intrigues me and gives the impression that a shovelware assetflip version of Celeste or Getting Over It is behind it. Most people are noping out before they even see the game, which at least looks better than the Capsule suggests (but still not great).

 

[Ingueferroque]

I wish it was possible for people to make games as a hobby and not be subject to their success as sellable products. I understand wanting to get profit from the things you create, but i feel like hobbyist videogame making is very bent on turning some kind of profit to justify the investment, whereas other kinds of artistic hobbies don't seem to have the same fixation. Congrats to Dominic Hackl for building and launching something, that's always a success. But like... i'm a hobbyist photographer and i don't have any expectation of making money from it, i just want to create things and put them out there, and i see a lot of people doing the same, and it ends up being this thing where lots of community events happen and friendships happen, because it's evident that what's most important is that people are enjoying their hobby and their fellow hobbyists. And i'll be honest there are a lot more people putting photos out there than videogames on steam. But we're not competing for a livelihood. Most of us are amateurs pressing buttons because it gives us the right and the excuse to look more attentively at something.

I really want there to be a space for amateur game development to survive and for people to be happy with it. I guess we already have lots of jams that are explicitely about that, but then it seems like sometimes games that are successeful jam entries turn into commercial products, thus robbing them from the freedom of just being amateur products. There is power in amateurship, there is power in not having to build a life from your art. But indie games seem to be particularly afflicted by sidehustle obssessiveness moreso than other hobbies.

Click to shrink...

Isn't that itch.io? But also Steam, mind. It all depends on the expectations and investment of the creators.

 

[thediamondage]

feel for the guy and really, really glad he put out an honest video to let other devs learn. Feels like right now if you make a game that is not tied to an insanely popular IP or a sequel to a beloved game, you are depending on a viral meme storm to drive your game to the forefront which is an insane bet, like literally trying to buy a lottery ticket type of levels of random ness.

Kinda makes it smart now to rely more and more on popular influencers like cohhcarnage or dunkey (animal well) to tie into your game since them promoting it makes sure millions of people KNOW about your game, which is the first part of the battle. You still gotta make a good game, have it be fun for enough people, on and on but if nobody ever knows about your game none of that will matter.

popular youtubers, tik tokers, twitch streamers etc are only gonna get more and more popular in gaming I imagine as they become almost guaranteed keys to success, if you make a good game. "Kai Cenat presents..." "Asmongold Studios..." "Valkyrie Productions latest..."