Never been fired or laid off, but I did leave a company just a few weeks before it announced the store was going under so I probably dodged a lay off there. I like to think my leaving was the kiss of death when in reality I most likely contributed to that end.
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You've ever been fired?
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Indirectly. The company I worked for shifted their focus to countries where labor is cheaper like Poland, South Africa and Mexico so they had to let people go. They didn't want to report lay offs to their shareholders so they approached the youngest and least senior employees to essentially buy them out with a pretty generous financial offer and I took that offer. I learned later that they probably would have just moved down the list if I had declined instead of laying me off but I'm better off anyway so no regrets. It also would have sucked if they had laid off someone with kids, which they tried to avoid, just because I didn't take their offer.
The only bullshit reason I can think of is while working at a computer store. This business owner opened up a store in my city and apparently had plans to open up stores all over the country. I was young and liked the idea of living away from home so I told them I'd love to do the same job in another city they were going to open in. Cut forward a year later, none of the other stores had opened, and the owner came in one day with a face that said, "All of you fuckers are responsible for this store not being a runaway success" and had a good look at everything. He fired the head technician, the guy who designed their computer models, because he was being paid too much. At the end of the day the manager and the accountant came over to me and asked me to come speak to them. For some reason, I was fired, along with the only other sales assistant working on the floor with me. I can't remember them giving me an official reason but I remember all the staff talking about it and agreeing - the owner had come in, didn't like us on sight, and wanted us out. That was the first time I'd ever seen him in the store, too.
The other stores never materialised and the one I'd worked in closed down a few years later. For years the owner was still trying to sell new old stock. I remember looking at his website and laughing at him still trying to sell Pentium Xeon processors at full original price despite being quite old.
I had a scant half hour trial at an Internet cafe kinda place. They had computers hooked up to the 'net there but it mostly seemed to be a phone calling business, with business coming mostly from people who were going through the process of immigrating into the country. The owner had some old style till and you had to do very quick sums in your head to be able to give correct change. Maths was always my weakest point so I failed badly there. She wanted the employee to be able to do it quickly in their head and not use a calculator because that was too slow, for some reason. I only served one or two customers while I was there, and the change wasn't a problem, but constantly counting money in the till was something she wanted done and that's where I fell down. I also had serious trouble understanding the accents of some of the people who came in. One guy had an African accent so strong I couldn't understand a word he said to me. Turned out he was looking for credit for some specific foreign phone service that she sold. Later when I did Kindle support for Amazon I used to hate going on .com support because it meant talking to people all over the world and I really struggle with some accents (and some Americans were really horrible people as it turned out - one woman kept swearing at me because her neighbours had changed their WiFi password. Even though her Kindle had 3G built-in. Sigh.)
She was right to not hire me.
I have been let go from a number of other jobs, all for the same reason. It's not my fault and it's not theirs. I have a very weak immune system and I get sick quite often, usually the flu. It requires that I stay in bed for a day or two to get through it, because often I'll be nauseous as hell. It just added up to too many sick days, and I'd be let go. My doctor advised me to tell potential employers about my condition but not go into too much detail. I did that and I would get hired, but several months to a year in and I would be sick too many times for them to justify keeping me on.
I remember being sick quite often while working at Amazon, in my last days there I was sick again but coming out of it and figured I should make an effort to show up, even though I wasn't 100%. I felt generally better until I entered the building and stepped onto the Kindle support floor. Immediately I felt awful, and it was the damn recycled air that their air conditioning system was pushing around. If anyone had a virus or anything I was picking it up and getting sick from it. My team lead and employee representative fought to keep me on but it was company policy to let someone go if they'd gone over the allotted amount of days someone can be sick in a year.
That's the story of my working life. Currently doing part time work at home, which helps.
The other stores never materialised and the one I'd worked in closed down a few years later. For years the owner was still trying to sell new old stock. I remember looking at his website and laughing at him still trying to sell Pentium Xeon processors at full original price despite being quite old.
I had a scant half hour trial at an Internet cafe kinda place. They had computers hooked up to the 'net there but it mostly seemed to be a phone calling business, with business coming mostly from people who were going through the process of immigrating into the country. The owner had some old style till and you had to do very quick sums in your head to be able to give correct change. Maths was always my weakest point so I failed badly there. She wanted the employee to be able to do it quickly in their head and not use a calculator because that was too slow, for some reason. I only served one or two customers while I was there, and the change wasn't a problem, but constantly counting money in the till was something she wanted done and that's where I fell down. I also had serious trouble understanding the accents of some of the people who came in. One guy had an African accent so strong I couldn't understand a word he said to me. Turned out he was looking for credit for some specific foreign phone service that she sold. Later when I did Kindle support for Amazon I used to hate going on .com support because it meant talking to people all over the world and I really struggle with some accents (and some Americans were really horrible people as it turned out - one woman kept swearing at me because her neighbours had changed their WiFi password. Even though her Kindle had 3G built-in. Sigh.)
She was right to not hire me.
I have been let go from a number of other jobs, all for the same reason. It's not my fault and it's not theirs. I have a very weak immune system and I get sick quite often, usually the flu. It requires that I stay in bed for a day or two to get through it, because often I'll be nauseous as hell. It just added up to too many sick days, and I'd be let go. My doctor advised me to tell potential employers about my condition but not go into too much detail. I did that and I would get hired, but several months to a year in and I would be sick too many times for them to justify keeping me on.
I remember being sick quite often while working at Amazon, in my last days there I was sick again but coming out of it and figured I should make an effort to show up, even though I wasn't 100%. I felt generally better until I entered the building and stepped onto the Kindle support floor. Immediately I felt awful, and it was the damn recycled air that their air conditioning system was pushing around. If anyone had a virus or anything I was picking it up and getting sick from it. My team lead and employee representative fought to keep me on but it was company policy to let someone go if they'd gone over the allotted amount of days someone can be sick in a year.
That's the story of my working life. Currently doing part time work at home, which helps.
Yeah, I have. 8 years ago, 4 months in the job. Pat on the shoulder, 'come to my office please', and fired on the spot for 'performance reasons'. I had never been given any warning, if anything it appeared I was doing well, and there were other people who were kept on but who had never showed up to a client meeting a couple of weeks prior. I think my firing was a message to everyone else.
Took me a very long time to rebound, but by the end of that year 50% of the company has been fired or had left due to the shithead manager we all had. The company was like this and has been like this since, they go through hiring periods where they will hire 5-6 people, if not more, and then after 2 years or so there's a purge and everyone leaves. It's a train wreck, and last I checked, they were almost out of money. Good riddance.
Took me a very long time to rebound, but by the end of that year 50% of the company has been fired or had left due to the shithead manager we all had. The company was like this and has been like this since, they go through hiring periods where they will hire 5-6 people, if not more, and then after 2 years or so there's a purge and everyone leaves. It's a train wreck, and last I checked, they were almost out of money. Good riddance.
Jeeeez LMAO.
At least you got unemployment pay and housing post firing. Sounds like a sweet deal to me!
In a charity organisation based in London, I constantly struggled with things. They had an open plan office and I got bogged down with so many tasks that I couldn't keep up with, and on a shitty laptop as well.
It really came to a head when I was making a handbook for staff, but I got so stressed out when they wanted me to use specific terminology for everything I wrote in it, despite my clear intention of making it easy to understand for newcomers. This was along with constant meetings about everything under the sun which had to be laid in a particular way.
In fact, the most productive day I ever had on the job was when I had the chance to work from home with my own laptop, I got so much done it was insane. But did they let me use my own laptop for when I was in the office? Nah.
I just did not fit in with that kind of corporate style, so we ended via mutual agreement.
It really came to a head when I was making a handbook for staff, but I got so stressed out when they wanted me to use specific terminology for everything I wrote in it, despite my clear intention of making it easy to understand for newcomers. This was along with constant meetings about everything under the sun which had to be laid in a particular way.
In fact, the most productive day I ever had on the job was when I had the chance to work from home with my own laptop, I got so much done it was insane. But did they let me use my own laptop for when I was in the office? Nah.
I just did not fit in with that kind of corporate style, so we ended via mutual agreement.
Kind of but not really. My manager almost punched me one day and fired me the next, but then got fired a few weeks later for stealing a few hundred thousand from the company. I contacted the owner a while later over a pay dispute and he was under the impression I quit. Which was great to have in writing for my unfair dismissal claim.
Got laid off when the company closed the location I was working at. I was a programmer but it was a junior position during college.
Another time during college I was working as a lot attendant at a rental car agency. One day I was swapping cars with another site and at that site I happened to notice someone trying to get their computer working (this was mid-80s for context). I helped them out and was asked if I wanted a job helping them out full time. I said sure, and the next day they called me back with their offer - it was for the same amount I was getting paid to wash and move cars around. They needed help but had no budget for more. I said no thanks, they said they understood. So I went back to my location and they'd already filled my position. Everyone was apologetic. But I was out of a job.
Another time during college I was working as a lot attendant at a rental car agency. One day I was swapping cars with another site and at that site I happened to notice someone trying to get their computer working (this was mid-80s for context). I helped them out and was asked if I wanted a job helping them out full time. I said sure, and the next day they called me back with their offer - it was for the same amount I was getting paid to wash and move cars around. They needed help but had no budget for more. I said no thanks, they said they understood. So I went back to my location and they'd already filled my position. Everyone was apologetic. But I was out of a job.
Our GM got promoted to DM and he never really liked me, so he forced the new GM to "let me go."
Dude held that grudge like a supervillian origin story.
There's always another shitty low paying job; notice no one is like 'I was heading the ER at a hospital when the head surgeon bumped my porshe in the parking lot'.
There's always a terrible underpaying call center job waiting for you; thats the fun of late stage capitalism.
I got fired from Pizza Hut when I was younger, not a hard job by any means but there was like zero training, it was one of my first few jobs, made mistakes, flying on the seat of my pants, other staff didn't help, very cliquey and rude, manager doing whatever in the back. Wasn't a nasty moment, just this isn't working out for you and that was it, sink or swim which I thought was rather cruel if you didn't show me the ropes properly.
I worked at GameStop as a seasonal help during college. I told them I couldn't work Black Friday because I'd be 2.5 hours away with my family. They stopped scheduling me after that.
I had a fiancƩe and young stepdaughter at home to help support when that happened. I was admittedly privileged by the fact that my fiancƩe had a decent paying job at the time and all the overtime she wanted to enable us to get by in the meanwhile, should we need it. (Also helped that she agreed with my reason for standing up to that micromanaging owner.)
Anyway, I immediately started a new, lower-paying and less-satisfying job just to keep a paycheck coming in. A month later, though, I found a much better situation. Less than a year later, I was making almost twice what I was making working for micromanaging asshole.
So, definitely all worked out for the better not settling for ill-treatment.
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Was like 16 working at an ice cream store. Only employee there. No customers. So I was chilling on the couch watching tv. Owner comes in mad I am doing nothing. I said, "buddy, no customers have come in a while."
He got angrier. Lol
He got angrier. Lol
I got fired from a call centre alongside three others for "call avoiding". We basically discovered a way to press some buttons on the phone which always put us to the back of the queue and we got away with it for ages, but then someone grassed up on us.
And to be honest getting fired from that place was the best thing that happened to me cos I hated the job and I'm now in a much better paid occupation.
And to be honest getting fired from that place was the best thing that happened to me cos I hated the job and I'm now in a much better paid occupation.
Just once. It was a bit of bullshit.
I'm in Australia, I used to work for a labour hire agency and they had me work at an Aldi Warehouse pick packing. Everything was going smooth and I was very fast and accurate. I got a lot of shifts because I was good at it. After 3 months I was let go after them saying they were going to keep some people on fulltime.
I found out later they kept no one and they turned over all the casual workers every few months because it was cheaper.
I didn't really care as the work was crap and they treated everyone like absolute shit. Plus leaving there got my foot in another place which eventually lead me to leave the factory floor and now work in the office in a different part of the business. Now I make twice as much as I did working down there.
So it worked out in the end. I still really don't like Aldi though.
I'm in Australia, I used to work for a labour hire agency and they had me work at an Aldi Warehouse pick packing. Everything was going smooth and I was very fast and accurate. I got a lot of shifts because I was good at it. After 3 months I was let go after them saying they were going to keep some people on fulltime.
I found out later they kept no one and they turned over all the casual workers every few months because it was cheaper.
I didn't really care as the work was crap and they treated everyone like absolute shit. Plus leaving there got my foot in another place which eventually lead me to leave the factory floor and now work in the office in a different part of the business. Now I make twice as much as I did working down there.
So it worked out in the end. I still really don't like Aldi though.
Yes, I was laid off in 2009 after a few months of work as a contractor. It was right when the '08 downturn was hitting that business sector. The excuse was "the company is letting all contractors go"
Then that august, reps from that same company called me and told me to submit my resume for a new position they were opening up and I got the job.
Then that august, reps from that same company called me and told me to submit my resume for a new position they were opening up and I got the job.
OP
OP
Counts as a termination in employment law In most jurisdictions. The WARN Act, a US law, is triggered in mass layoffs, for example. Basically, you're leaving the job involuntary.
I'm not an HR person, I'm sure there are some here, so they should comment.
Emotionally speaking layoffs suck as well. You don't feel better because it is a layoff. Plus many companies use layoffs as a soft performance based firing, keeping the "A" players.
I had some serious health issues about 3 years ago, I was aware of it but because I had just started a new job with the county they kept going on about "well you're on probation for the first 6 months so you really can't take PL." And yeah, that shit finally came to a head where it affected the way I was able to work and I got fired for not meeting their expectations.
So yeah.
So yeah.
Fired = you were terminated for doing something wrong.
Layoff = you were terminated because your company simply doesn't need you. No fault of your own.
Layoffs are much easier to explain on your resume/next job interviews.
Layoff = you were terminated because your company simply doesn't need you. No fault of your own.
Layoffs are much easier to explain on your resume/next job interviews.
OP
OP
Um, I'd challenge the first one here. I've known people getting fired for the tiniest thingsāmany of them not even wrong. I've known people who got fired because they weren't liked. This is US, baby.
Wanna start a union? You will most likely be fired int he US if your employers finds outāeven though this is illegal and thus NOT wrong.
These people had good work product, were on time, team players. Don't fall for the corporate bullshit. You can get fired for anything at anytime for any reason, in the US.
Then there's nebulous culture fit nonsense.
I also have experience with those 3 scenarios of losing a job.
My first job was performance based. It was in a bakery, and I didn't work fast enough for the owner (I had depression at the time).
I quit my 2nd job due to poor working conditions and issues with management (This was in fast food)
I had a job that I worked for over 2 years and the subcontractor lost the contract at my main worksite. Because they had to make me a part-time employee rather than the usual casual status, they just let me go instead of trying to offer other work. (This was in security, I sued them for this and won)
One of my later jobs I was let go from without any explanation suddenly and they basically ghosted me (This was in warehousing)
My first job was performance based. It was in a bakery, and I didn't work fast enough for the owner (I had depression at the time).
I quit my 2nd job due to poor working conditions and issues with management (This was in fast food)
I had a job that I worked for over 2 years and the subcontractor lost the contract at my main worksite. Because they had to make me a part-time employee rather than the usual casual status, they just let me go instead of trying to offer other work. (This was in security, I sued them for this and won)
One of my later jobs I was let go from without any explanation suddenly and they basically ghosted me (This was in warehousing)
Yes, for the first time, last year. Wall of text incoming.
Disclaimer: my work history has some gaps of unemployment, but my career trajectory has been excellent and a generally consistent upwards growth. Moreover, prior to the role in question, I'd never had issues with supervision, management, or anyone else, at least not in any way that significantly impacted my career. I had (and continue to have) superb rapport with my managers, all of who remain reliable references to this day. Every job I'd ever had ended either by me moving on to a new role with a new employer, or a redundancy due to industry changes. In all cases I left on excellent terms, and am smart enough not to burn bridges.
Prelude: I had an excellent job for about 3 years leading up to the end of 2020. It was not one I intended to stick in, but only due to stagnation. The role itself was easy, paid exceptionally well, I had excellent colleagues and management, a large volume of autonomy, three day weekends every weekend, and was with an employer and industry I fully intended to stick with. The only reason I lost that job was due to COVID related redundancy. My small team all lost our jobs. Shit sucked, but the writing was on the wall and that's just the way it is. My employer tried to offer us other roles as per redundancy procedure, but in the middle of COVID and in a non-for-profit...it just wasn't viable. So we went our separate ways and I had excellent references to back me up.
I wound up applying for a job at a university in their skills/employment department. The role was basically recruitment; assisting TAFE students (so mainly trades) and off-the-street walk-ins with employment support and recruitment, liaising with employers to form partnerships, keep our jobs board updated, etc. I really don't enjoy recruitment very much, but I needed a job as per COVID, and it was a job I could do. I interviewed well and was candid during: I'd moved away from recruitment in my recent roles so if they wanted someone more immediately experienced they'd be better off with someone else. They didn't care. Manager of the site seemed happy, so I got the job. Casual role, four days a week, outrageously good money with university superannuation, but zero job security and limited room for growth unless I moved to an entirely different part of the uni. The team I was in was small, and very focused on a particular set of duties.
I knew shit was wrong by the end of my first week. First thing I was tasked with doing was completing the mandatory COVID Safe University training. Completely fair. This training explicitly instructed staff how to act during COVID. Let me preface this: all of this is happening Q2 2021. COVID is still a thing, and my city (Melbourne, Australia) is on and off lockdown. Every business worth their salt takes this shit seriously and universities in particular are anxious as hell because they've already lost so much money from losing international students and being prime spots for outbreaks. So the rules are strict: we all have an electronic staff pass card, and every single morning you must log into the staff system and complete very short questionnaire. Basic queries on symptoms and how you feel. Until you complete this your card is locked and you cannot access any building. If there's even a whiff of you being sick in any way on the form, it'll also lock for 24 hours. They'd rather staff stay home than risk getting anyone sick and causing another outbreak, and I had no issue with this.
First week was basically this:
- Get to know people in the office. Most people seem cool, there's very few of us. Office manager seems a bit high strung, and one of my colleagues is a preppy, gossipy overachiever who "only dates engineers" (the fact I learned this, from her, so quickly says it all).
- I have almost nothing in the ways of proper equipment set up. I have a computer, but no access to emails or staff systems beyond the basic COVID check-in.
- Despite needing to make phone calls pretty regularly to set up meetings with employers, I am not given a phone (it takes about 3 weeks for this to be resolved). I have to use my personal mobile for the first week.
- Manager has made it clear she gets annoyed by basically anything, especially auxiliary noise. The office is tiny, so the career coaches are confined to two little boxes that have their own doors. I'm stuck in the main room with my manager, who gets annoyed at any phone call.
- I take a phone call on Day 2 of 4. It is a combo of personal / work - someone I am personally friends with who I asked to call me as they work in an industry that would lead to some good vacancies for labourors. I take this phone call outside of out respect for my manager, on my personal phone, and because there's never been an issue doing this in my last three jobs.
- Day 3 I wake up and I feel like shit. Nausea, headache, etc. I feel awful calling in sick but do it anyway. It could be just nerves and adjustment to a new role, as I'd taken the previous 4 or so months off after the last role's redundancy. I apologise in the call and offer to work from home. Management seems fine about it, says don't worry about it, just take the day to rest up. My rational is this: it's my first week, most of my equipment still isn't ready, I am doing mostly modules and no real difficult work (it's not like I have a backlog of clients yet), and I'm casually employed. I have zero entitlements to sick days and leave, so it costs the company literally zero dollars for me not to be there. Also, I'm sick, and that's what happens when you're sick.
- Day 4 I show up, feeling a lot better. Early in the morning I take a second call from another contact in the industry, similar to the aforementioned call, and again outside the front of the office.
- Note: when I say outside the front of the office, I mean literally getting up and walking maybe 7 meters, if that, out of our office into the foyer then outside. It's ~right there~.
Upon returning back to the office my manager took me aside into a vacant room and absolutely grilled me on "what's going on". She refused to clarify what exactly the problem was, only vaguely citing "you keep getting up to take calls", and "you called in sick yesterday". I was absolutely baffled. It didn't seem disciplinary, and she wasn't being directly accusational, but the tone was weird as fuck and confrontational. I apologised for any issued I'd caused, explained myself, stated there was nothing going on and I wasn't entirely sure what she meant, and I was happy in the new job. It'd only been a week after all. I wracked my brain trying to work out what the fuck she was on about, and concluded that maybe she thought I was interviewing for another job? Two phone calls taken outside the office, a day off in the first week. Maybe she thought I was arranging and then interviewing for another job?
It might have been what she thought but that doesn't really matter, because from that point on I was gaslit, bullied, targeted, made to feel like shit, and generally pushed to a point where I didn't give a fuck about the role over the course of two months almost literally to the day. I was:
- Called out in team meetings for things I "didn't do" and how that was "really stupid" even though I had followed her instructions to the letter, and could cite it.
- Was accused of not getting certain work done fast enough, despite being asked that day to do it at the drop of a pin.
- Was accused of letting other work get behind, because of having to drop everything to do the aforementioned.
- Accused of not doing specific tasks, despite doing them, and when called out on it received no apology.
- Accused of not working with my colleagues, despite regularly doing so in collaboration for mutual goals.
- Given blame for "poor performance" that couldn't be explicitly cited, including being blamed for lack of progress in areas that had literally nothing to do with my own job (eg: "not enough referrals from the career coaches", which is not my job to get, I literally can't get them! I can ask, I can pressure, but they have to refer to me!)
I would find out about her and the office that:
- She never wanted to be a manager. She was just one of the career coaches, and upper management pushed her into management after failing to find another manager on three separate occasions.
- One of my colleagues who I got along with exceptionally well, and was there when said manager was promoted, noted that she had been complaining for months about how she didn't want to manage.
- Was going through a messy separation from an on-and-off 8 year toxic relationship, while still living with the guy, and trying to sell the house they were sharing.
- Militant anti-vaxxer, anti-lockdown measures, anti-progressive/labour government in Australia.
- Once complained that she'd be "late to get home" when her train was stalled after someone committed suicide on the rail.
- Would bitch about me (and others) in some weird, gross cliquey thing she had going on with the aforementioned preppy chick, whom she was tasking with spying on myself and everyone else in the office. The two would often go for drinks afterwards to gossip.
- Above mentioned preppy chick "gossiped" to my manger about how I'd lost two people I knew to suicide over the last month, as I'd mentioned it to her casually in conversation when we were running a training session together. It wasn't a secret and I didn't mind people knowing, but the principle of her doing so and the way she framed it is demonstrative of her behaviour and ethics and the relationship she had with my manager.
- Lunatic micromanager. The colleague who I spoke to the most, and got along with extremely, basically covered my arse and prewarned me of a whole bunch of shit that was going to happen and was in the process of happening because of what she was hearing, observing, and already knew. She'd worked with my manager long enough to know said manager believes she isn't a micromanager, but is absolutely a micromanager who cannot stand the entire office not working exactly to her irrational order and standards.
- EG: of the above, manager was super anal about anybody leaving the office for any reason. Walking literally, literally next door to grab a coffee? Ducking out for a smoke (my colleague, not me)? Can't be doing that, I'm paying you to work.
- Aforementioned gaslighting and being called out in meetings; I didn't notice half of if because it happened so regularly in the short two months I was there that it was only when two of the colleagues I was closest to came up to me after some of our meetings to ask if I was okay that I realised it'd happened again. I had colleagues straight up telling me and highlighting how wrong I was being treated, how they would have been upset had it happened to them, in order for me to reflect and go "Oh, yeah, what the fuck?!".
It really ended as irrationally as it began. After ~2 months I had a performance review / career success planning meeting with her and it was glowing. "You've really found your feet, you're doing great in this role, I love what you're bringing across to the team", yadda yadda. Literally two weeks later I was called into a meeting that I knew was going to be the end (short version: a bunch of requests for my content made it clear it was to be handed over), and with red wine stains on her teeth she told me she was letting me go and had all the reasons in the world to do so. Namely: I don't do my job, I don't work, I don't contribute, bla bla. I had a huge argument with her, kept asking her to cite shit I hadn't done while citing the mountain of work I had, alongside the numerous contradictions and bullshit. She had no counter argument. It ended with me stating "I knew we'd have a problem from that first week, after you pulled me aside", and she said "Well yes, you're right, I thought so too", confirming my two month suspicion that she fucking hated me and had no reason not to.
Me being employed under a casual contract made "letting me go" easy. My rights were limited. I could have escalated it and put in a HR complaint, or gone to Fair Work, but I just wanted the whole shitshow to be over. I knew it was the right end to the two months as I walked out of there with an enormous feeling of relief despite stepping back into unemployment. No money in the world could have had me return to work there. I didn't really enjoy the job to start with, but the management was genuinely the worst management I've ever had in my entire life, and the only experience of direct, immediate bullying in a workplace that I've personally experienced.
I wish to say it didn't have an impact on me and, at the time, I thought it hadn't. I'm a pretty grounded person with this shit. I had my moments of "Maybe I was in the wrong, maybe I was a problem at the job", and reflected on the experience to see what I could do better and what I could learn, amidst the turmoil of it all. And while there's a couple of things I learned, by and large the evidence in my favour is enormous and I am 100% confident I was in the right, and she was 100% in the wrong, and it was workplace bullying. Nevertheless, despite being conscious of all of this it still impacted my perception of acceptance at the two jobs I've held since, where there is a lingering anxiety that I'm going to be called out for "doing the wrong thing", while wondering if I am doing the wrong thing without knowing it. I have to catch myself in these thoughts and work backwards from them, to remind myself I'm doing fine.
Especially since those two jobs in question were fine. The first was a quick bounce back from the aforementioned disaster. I was in it for 8 or so months and set to be promoted to management, and only left for the current opportunity that came out of nowhere. And the current job is an enormous career step for me, a job I really love that challenges and stimulates me in ways I haven't felt in a role for a long time, with colleagues and management that are phenomenal and 100% on my level and extremely supportive, earning more than I've ever earned in my life with good room to grow and continue my career.
I've no reason to be concerned. The feedback on the work I've done has been excellent. But I still occasionally have those moments, and I can source them back to that fucking job and experience. And that shit sucks.
Disclaimer: my work history has some gaps of unemployment, but my career trajectory has been excellent and a generally consistent upwards growth. Moreover, prior to the role in question, I'd never had issues with supervision, management, or anyone else, at least not in any way that significantly impacted my career. I had (and continue to have) superb rapport with my managers, all of who remain reliable references to this day. Every job I'd ever had ended either by me moving on to a new role with a new employer, or a redundancy due to industry changes. In all cases I left on excellent terms, and am smart enough not to burn bridges.
Prelude: I had an excellent job for about 3 years leading up to the end of 2020. It was not one I intended to stick in, but only due to stagnation. The role itself was easy, paid exceptionally well, I had excellent colleagues and management, a large volume of autonomy, three day weekends every weekend, and was with an employer and industry I fully intended to stick with. The only reason I lost that job was due to COVID related redundancy. My small team all lost our jobs. Shit sucked, but the writing was on the wall and that's just the way it is. My employer tried to offer us other roles as per redundancy procedure, but in the middle of COVID and in a non-for-profit...it just wasn't viable. So we went our separate ways and I had excellent references to back me up.
I wound up applying for a job at a university in their skills/employment department. The role was basically recruitment; assisting TAFE students (so mainly trades) and off-the-street walk-ins with employment support and recruitment, liaising with employers to form partnerships, keep our jobs board updated, etc. I really don't enjoy recruitment very much, but I needed a job as per COVID, and it was a job I could do. I interviewed well and was candid during: I'd moved away from recruitment in my recent roles so if they wanted someone more immediately experienced they'd be better off with someone else. They didn't care. Manager of the site seemed happy, so I got the job. Casual role, four days a week, outrageously good money with university superannuation, but zero job security and limited room for growth unless I moved to an entirely different part of the uni. The team I was in was small, and very focused on a particular set of duties.
I knew shit was wrong by the end of my first week. First thing I was tasked with doing was completing the mandatory COVID Safe University training. Completely fair. This training explicitly instructed staff how to act during COVID. Let me preface this: all of this is happening Q2 2021. COVID is still a thing, and my city (Melbourne, Australia) is on and off lockdown. Every business worth their salt takes this shit seriously and universities in particular are anxious as hell because they've already lost so much money from losing international students and being prime spots for outbreaks. So the rules are strict: we all have an electronic staff pass card, and every single morning you must log into the staff system and complete very short questionnaire. Basic queries on symptoms and how you feel. Until you complete this your card is locked and you cannot access any building. If there's even a whiff of you being sick in any way on the form, it'll also lock for 24 hours. They'd rather staff stay home than risk getting anyone sick and causing another outbreak, and I had no issue with this.
First week was basically this:
- Get to know people in the office. Most people seem cool, there's very few of us. Office manager seems a bit high strung, and one of my colleagues is a preppy, gossipy overachiever who "only dates engineers" (the fact I learned this, from her, so quickly says it all).
- I have almost nothing in the ways of proper equipment set up. I have a computer, but no access to emails or staff systems beyond the basic COVID check-in.
- Despite needing to make phone calls pretty regularly to set up meetings with employers, I am not given a phone (it takes about 3 weeks for this to be resolved). I have to use my personal mobile for the first week.
- Manager has made it clear she gets annoyed by basically anything, especially auxiliary noise. The office is tiny, so the career coaches are confined to two little boxes that have their own doors. I'm stuck in the main room with my manager, who gets annoyed at any phone call.
- I take a phone call on Day 2 of 4. It is a combo of personal / work - someone I am personally friends with who I asked to call me as they work in an industry that would lead to some good vacancies for labourors. I take this phone call outside of out respect for my manager, on my personal phone, and because there's never been an issue doing this in my last three jobs.
- Day 3 I wake up and I feel like shit. Nausea, headache, etc. I feel awful calling in sick but do it anyway. It could be just nerves and adjustment to a new role, as I'd taken the previous 4 or so months off after the last role's redundancy. I apologise in the call and offer to work from home. Management seems fine about it, says don't worry about it, just take the day to rest up. My rational is this: it's my first week, most of my equipment still isn't ready, I am doing mostly modules and no real difficult work (it's not like I have a backlog of clients yet), and I'm casually employed. I have zero entitlements to sick days and leave, so it costs the company literally zero dollars for me not to be there. Also, I'm sick, and that's what happens when you're sick.
- Day 4 I show up, feeling a lot better. Early in the morning I take a second call from another contact in the industry, similar to the aforementioned call, and again outside the front of the office.
- Note: when I say outside the front of the office, I mean literally getting up and walking maybe 7 meters, if that, out of our office into the foyer then outside. It's ~right there~.
Upon returning back to the office my manager took me aside into a vacant room and absolutely grilled me on "what's going on". She refused to clarify what exactly the problem was, only vaguely citing "you keep getting up to take calls", and "you called in sick yesterday". I was absolutely baffled. It didn't seem disciplinary, and she wasn't being directly accusational, but the tone was weird as fuck and confrontational. I apologised for any issued I'd caused, explained myself, stated there was nothing going on and I wasn't entirely sure what she meant, and I was happy in the new job. It'd only been a week after all. I wracked my brain trying to work out what the fuck she was on about, and concluded that maybe she thought I was interviewing for another job? Two phone calls taken outside the office, a day off in the first week. Maybe she thought I was arranging and then interviewing for another job?
It might have been what she thought but that doesn't really matter, because from that point on I was gaslit, bullied, targeted, made to feel like shit, and generally pushed to a point where I didn't give a fuck about the role over the course of two months almost literally to the day. I was:
- Called out in team meetings for things I "didn't do" and how that was "really stupid" even though I had followed her instructions to the letter, and could cite it.
- Was accused of not getting certain work done fast enough, despite being asked that day to do it at the drop of a pin.
- Was accused of letting other work get behind, because of having to drop everything to do the aforementioned.
- Accused of not doing specific tasks, despite doing them, and when called out on it received no apology.
- Accused of not working with my colleagues, despite regularly doing so in collaboration for mutual goals.
- Given blame for "poor performance" that couldn't be explicitly cited, including being blamed for lack of progress in areas that had literally nothing to do with my own job (eg: "not enough referrals from the career coaches", which is not my job to get, I literally can't get them! I can ask, I can pressure, but they have to refer to me!)
I would find out about her and the office that:
- She never wanted to be a manager. She was just one of the career coaches, and upper management pushed her into management after failing to find another manager on three separate occasions.
- One of my colleagues who I got along with exceptionally well, and was there when said manager was promoted, noted that she had been complaining for months about how she didn't want to manage.
- Was going through a messy separation from an on-and-off 8 year toxic relationship, while still living with the guy, and trying to sell the house they were sharing.
- Militant anti-vaxxer, anti-lockdown measures, anti-progressive/labour government in Australia.
- Once complained that she'd be "late to get home" when her train was stalled after someone committed suicide on the rail.
- Would bitch about me (and others) in some weird, gross cliquey thing she had going on with the aforementioned preppy chick, whom she was tasking with spying on myself and everyone else in the office. The two would often go for drinks afterwards to gossip.
- Above mentioned preppy chick "gossiped" to my manger about how I'd lost two people I knew to suicide over the last month, as I'd mentioned it to her casually in conversation when we were running a training session together. It wasn't a secret and I didn't mind people knowing, but the principle of her doing so and the way she framed it is demonstrative of her behaviour and ethics and the relationship she had with my manager.
- Lunatic micromanager. The colleague who I spoke to the most, and got along with extremely, basically covered my arse and prewarned me of a whole bunch of shit that was going to happen and was in the process of happening because of what she was hearing, observing, and already knew. She'd worked with my manager long enough to know said manager believes she isn't a micromanager, but is absolutely a micromanager who cannot stand the entire office not working exactly to her irrational order and standards.
- EG: of the above, manager was super anal about anybody leaving the office for any reason. Walking literally, literally next door to grab a coffee? Ducking out for a smoke (my colleague, not me)? Can't be doing that, I'm paying you to work.
- Aforementioned gaslighting and being called out in meetings; I didn't notice half of if because it happened so regularly in the short two months I was there that it was only when two of the colleagues I was closest to came up to me after some of our meetings to ask if I was okay that I realised it'd happened again. I had colleagues straight up telling me and highlighting how wrong I was being treated, how they would have been upset had it happened to them, in order for me to reflect and go "Oh, yeah, what the fuck?!".
It really ended as irrationally as it began. After ~2 months I had a performance review / career success planning meeting with her and it was glowing. "You've really found your feet, you're doing great in this role, I love what you're bringing across to the team", yadda yadda. Literally two weeks later I was called into a meeting that I knew was going to be the end (short version: a bunch of requests for my content made it clear it was to be handed over), and with red wine stains on her teeth she told me she was letting me go and had all the reasons in the world to do so. Namely: I don't do my job, I don't work, I don't contribute, bla bla. I had a huge argument with her, kept asking her to cite shit I hadn't done while citing the mountain of work I had, alongside the numerous contradictions and bullshit. She had no counter argument. It ended with me stating "I knew we'd have a problem from that first week, after you pulled me aside", and she said "Well yes, you're right, I thought so too", confirming my two month suspicion that she fucking hated me and had no reason not to.
Me being employed under a casual contract made "letting me go" easy. My rights were limited. I could have escalated it and put in a HR complaint, or gone to Fair Work, but I just wanted the whole shitshow to be over. I knew it was the right end to the two months as I walked out of there with an enormous feeling of relief despite stepping back into unemployment. No money in the world could have had me return to work there. I didn't really enjoy the job to start with, but the management was genuinely the worst management I've ever had in my entire life, and the only experience of direct, immediate bullying in a workplace that I've personally experienced.
I wish to say it didn't have an impact on me and, at the time, I thought it hadn't. I'm a pretty grounded person with this shit. I had my moments of "Maybe I was in the wrong, maybe I was a problem at the job", and reflected on the experience to see what I could do better and what I could learn, amidst the turmoil of it all. And while there's a couple of things I learned, by and large the evidence in my favour is enormous and I am 100% confident I was in the right, and she was 100% in the wrong, and it was workplace bullying. Nevertheless, despite being conscious of all of this it still impacted my perception of acceptance at the two jobs I've held since, where there is a lingering anxiety that I'm going to be called out for "doing the wrong thing", while wondering if I am doing the wrong thing without knowing it. I have to catch myself in these thoughts and work backwards from them, to remind myself I'm doing fine.
Especially since those two jobs in question were fine. The first was a quick bounce back from the aforementioned disaster. I was in it for 8 or so months and set to be promoted to management, and only left for the current opportunity that came out of nowhere. And the current job is an enormous career step for me, a job I really love that challenges and stimulates me in ways I haven't felt in a role for a long time, with colleagues and management that are phenomenal and 100% on my level and extremely supportive, earning more than I've ever earned in my life with good room to grow and continue my career.
I've no reason to be concerned. The feedback on the work I've done has been excellent. But I still occasionally have those moments, and I can source them back to that fucking job and experience. And that shit sucks.
I only quit once. Every time I was laid off (twice) I scored a better paying job. I'm now earning slightly above market rate which is great. Spent years overestimating other people's competence as it turns out. People are generally not that good at their jobs. A sad factā¦
I doubt I'm alone in this realization.
I was laid off once when I worked at a Sprint store that was about to go out of business. The store closed up about 2 months after I got laid off.
I don't really consider that "fired" though. In my headspace, those are two very different things.
I don't really consider that "fired" though. In my headspace, those are two very different things.
This attitude feels incredibly gross and condescending. Most of these stories are insane and nobody should have been fired. It sucks the US has such a shitty attitude about work, god i hate this country.
I get that in reality it's like that but as far as hiring managers go its definitely what he posted. This is why half the time When I see a firing coming I would sooner quit first or have new job lined up first so I wouldn't have to explain the firing since listening is rare as shit in the workforce.
That is an understatement. I actually left out since it was already so damn long to explain how said person then called the two departments I had applied to internally and told them it not so many words I was a problem and do not hire me. The only reason I knew this is I had a friend in one of the departments who was part of the review process but ultimately did not make the decision. Said person was with the company for over 20 years at this point in time, compared to me at 7, and corporate politics were everything there so yeah, I never worked there again as a fulltime employee.
I live in Australia and that attitude is born from my migrant background. Its difficult for me to not work hard at any job regardless of the circumstances as I've come from worse and have real examples in my parents what a lack of job security & money looks like.
So you are saying these people aren't working hard? A lot here are just trying to make a living. That's still a really condescending attitude towards others and i've seen that notion quite a lot in the US where they just fire you for petty shit sometimes. Sometimes people are a minute or two late for whatever reason on a timesheet whether that's bathroom or traffic, and firing someone over that happening like 2 times is insane.
got laid off working at a subway in an amusement park when I was 16, the dude had hired wayyy too many people so he fired half of us. It was a shitty job since the restaurant was always full.
the owner eas also a dickhead who
1) saw a group of blind people enter once and told us to put light toppings in their sandwiches since "they're blind they wont notice anyways"
2) wouldnt let us take cookies at the end of the day, he threw them in the trash and god forbid you tried taking some instead of wasting them like that
3) owed me over 100$ on my last cheque (which was a lot to me, paid like 10 bucks an hour at that age), when I texted him about him told me he would write me another cheque in 2 weeks.
2 weeks later, no news, I text him again and he says "sorry ive been busy, ill do yours in the next payments in 2 weeks"
Okayā¦ 2 more weeks later no news, I text him again, get replied "you're annoying with your messages, ill write your cheque when I feel like it, stop spamming me or im going to block you". When I tried to reply the dude just ignored me.
I was 16 at the time so I was just shocked, that was my first job, so I just didnt know what to answer. A few days later I told my big brother about it, he took my phone and texted him something about filling a complaint to labour standards if he doesnt give me my cheque within a week. the dude, after ignoring me for like a week, INSTANTLY replied with "ok fine, ill do your cheque right now, but ill have you know what you did was highly unprofessional, I hope you learn to not do this to any job again"
To this day 10 years later when I think about this story I cant help but think that this dude was such a dickhead
the owner eas also a dickhead who
1) saw a group of blind people enter once and told us to put light toppings in their sandwiches since "they're blind they wont notice anyways"
2) wouldnt let us take cookies at the end of the day, he threw them in the trash and god forbid you tried taking some instead of wasting them like that
3) owed me over 100$ on my last cheque (which was a lot to me, paid like 10 bucks an hour at that age), when I texted him about him told me he would write me another cheque in 2 weeks.
2 weeks later, no news, I text him again and he says "sorry ive been busy, ill do yours in the next payments in 2 weeks"
Okayā¦ 2 more weeks later no news, I text him again, get replied "you're annoying with your messages, ill write your cheque when I feel like it, stop spamming me or im going to block you". When I tried to reply the dude just ignored me.
I was 16 at the time so I was just shocked, that was my first job, so I just didnt know what to answer. A few days later I told my big brother about it, he took my phone and texted him something about filling a complaint to labour standards if he doesnt give me my cheque within a week. the dude, after ignoring me for like a week, INSTANTLY replied with "ok fine, ill do your cheque right now, but ill have you know what you did was highly unprofessional, I hope you learn to not do this to any job again"
To this day 10 years later when I think about this story I cant help but think that this dude was such a dickhead
Ah, so you're not personally familiar with how the job market works here in the US, I presume? Getting fired from a job, including for incredibly petty or even illegal reasons, is incredibly common in this country. (Especially, it seems, in the American South where I live.) Unless you're lucky enough to work for a larger company, where you have full-fledged HR departments or even unions (increasingly rare) in place to prevent it, it's utterly obscene the worker abuses companies can and do get away with here. (I only ever worked for small, family-run businesses--not by choice--none of which had an actual HR department.)
For example, that same micromanaging asshole owner whom made me complete that time sheet, he had another employee there whom got even much worse shit from him. She had broken her ass working for him for 9 years, did countless 60+ hour weeks with no overtime pay. She was basically the workhorse that helped his company go from almost nothing to enabling him to buy a big, fancy house and a Corvette. Like me, she was a diagnosed depressive. One time, a new medication her doctor wrongly prescribed for her caused her to have an emotional meltdown on the job. Asshole immediately fired her and even tried to fight her unemployment afterwards (which she luckily won). She had no legal recourse about the firing, though, because that's considered perfectly ok by the courts here.
It's a legit meat-grinder here. I'm not sure I personally know anyone here who doesn't have stories like this.
I was "temporarily laid off" at the start of COVID. Last time I heard from my boss was September 2020 when he left a voicemail saying he's still working on bringing all of us back. So I'm counting that because it's been over 2 years and I haven't heard anything except from one coworker who told me if I call the assistant manager he might be able to bring me back in, like 6 months after I started a job that paid more with better hours.
I was laid off last July with about 15 other people. Out of my department of 25, they chose the newest person, the supervisor closest to retirement, & me.
I was working an Endpoint Analyst roll for 4 years & we were told repeatedly that the amount of service tickets we handled & other metrics didn't matter.
Well turns out they did, I had been taking on a ton of projects, so my tickets/requests took a backseat.
The other 12 people that were let go were an entire department. The day I found out was just the worst timing, I had family in town so I was working from home, just made some large purchases for the family, & had a little one due in August. It was scheduled as one of my usual weekly 1on1 with my supervisor, then surprise she didn't show & instead it was the director of IT & a lawyer with Legal. I was like "oh sorry I think I'm in the wrong meeting" they responded "no you're in the right one". I knew immediately what was going down.
I had a three month gap between jobs. It definitely gave me PTSD for anytime I have a 1on1 meeting or impromptu meeting.
I was working an Endpoint Analyst roll for 4 years & we were told repeatedly that the amount of service tickets we handled & other metrics didn't matter.
Well turns out they did, I had been taking on a ton of projects, so my tickets/requests took a backseat.
The other 12 people that were let go were an entire department. The day I found out was just the worst timing, I had family in town so I was working from home, just made some large purchases for the family, & had a little one due in August. It was scheduled as one of my usual weekly 1on1 with my supervisor, then surprise she didn't show & instead it was the director of IT & a lawyer with Legal. I was like "oh sorry I think I'm in the wrong meeting" they responded "no you're in the right one". I knew immediately what was going down.
I had a three month gap between jobs. It definitely gave me PTSD for anytime I have a 1on1 meeting or impromptu meeting.
got made redundant a few years back, I consider myself one of the lucky ones as to save redundancy money the company had previously 'off shored' its staff to a third party company that treats their staff terribly.
Was very glad to take the redundancy money and run into a job that I prefer. As you say once you get laid off/ moved to a different company against your will you realise how little loyalty companies have towards their staff.
Was very glad to take the redundancy money and run into a job that I prefer. As you say once you get laid off/ moved to a different company against your will you realise how little loyalty companies have towards their staff.
Didn't qualify for unemployment. This was 25 years ago. My dad still brings it up and says he's sorry he had to do it lol.
Oh I meant you still lived with them (your boss/dad)... It was a joke at the fact you said you still stayed at home during those days haha. I screwed it up tho š
OP
OP
I could imagine he also wanted to make sure he wasn't playing favorites. Workers talk and that could kill morale.