First of all, I am not trying to absolve Phil Spencer, and I would like for you to point out where I said that. Second, it was a though experiment, with me wondering if he DID HIS JOB what things would be like.
ZhugeEX: "PS5 shipped 4.5m consoles in last quarter; almost 5x more than Xbox Series X|S according to our estimates"
- Thread starter MauroNL
- Start date
I feel like this is MS's biggest problem: they have legit products but they don't do enough to support them. If they had done anything to get native apps for Windows Phone we'd probably have 3 OS's in mobile today. If they had done anything to market the Zune iPod might have had real competition. If they had actually invested in 1st party studios/exclusive games earlier Xbox might be more of a player now instead of being in danger of losing the platform holder moniker. I know it sounds crazy after how much money they spent for Activision but they're too cheap for how wealthy they are.
When is TES6 coming out? Cause:
1. If they make it XB exclusive at launch, they might be hoping it revilitizes console sales, which means they haven't completely given up on it.
2. If they make it multiplatform, well, then they probably know it's not gonna sell consoles and they're just gonna go for profits and record sales.
1. If they make it XB exclusive at launch, they might be hoping it revilitizes console sales, which means they haven't completely given up on it.
2. If they make it multiplatform, well, then they probably know it's not gonna sell consoles and they're just gonna go for profits and record sales.
That much is true to see. You'd think the lessons learn from there would have translated. Or maybe they did, and this is the result of another executive failing upwards.
Going day and date on pc and including pc in gamepass has got to have really hurt xbox sales. It used to be common for people to have pc and xbox, now doubling up is pointless.
If you are someone like me who will always have a pc, you will never have any reason to get an xbox.
For those who complain about console exclusives, this is where having no exclusives gets you. Doubling down on Multiplatform is going to make it worse for xbox.
If you are someone like me who will always have a pc, you will never have any reason to get an xbox.
For those who complain about console exclusives, this is where having no exclusives gets you. Doubling down on Multiplatform is going to make it worse for xbox.
Despite owning all xbox consoles since the Halo 2 days, I've never been less like to give them a single penny outside subbing to gamepass some months ever again. As someone who loathes Microsoft as a company, I get some schadenfreude from their troubles but do wonder about all the negatives effects if they pull back from console gaming.
Well.... one way to look at the situation is that for the most part, Xbox has not been able to recover from a disaster like the one you described yet others did. Spencer has been trying to sell that same narrative of "We lost the worst generation you could lose" with the whole Xbox one fiasco yet I think for the most part people keep forgetting that the Xbox One wasn't actually the worst console of the generation, the Wii U was.
Everyone who bought that system wasn't also able to bring their purchases over to the switch either, and in fact as much as much as Spencer wants to sell the idea of it all being Matricks fault he has been in the helm for a long time with more than enough resources and talent to turn things around. Under Spencer there has been no completely amazing blockbuster game that has gotten people to even look in direction of Xbox. The PS3 recovered on the same generation with great games and the Nintendo folks also recovered with an amazing idea and great games for their next system.
For as many great features and services that Xbox has provided (like the ones you mentioned) even down to great hardware it still has not been able to get people in the door because they have not been able to provide neither blockbuster games that make people want to enter nor hardware that is different enough to make people leave their current ecosystem or choose Xbox over the competition.
Essentially, it's like someone opening a Starbucks competitor at the same price with nicer seating and better wi-fi but with worse coffee/pastries and a worse service. No one is going to stop going to Starbucks for that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Idk how salvageable is the situation is right now but a different result can't be had under the same leadership I would say, enough is enough.
But it might make things a lot better for Microsoft Gaming and what's effectively the studios group.
The platform side of things (devices, services) seems like it has quite a journey ahead of them.
Off topic, but all the posts about being worry that Sony will have no direct competitor once Xbox bows out makes me wonder why nobody seems worried that Nintendo also has no direct competitor, and hasn't had for a long time.
Microsoft failed in phones due to a systemic and total lack of vision. Google saw the iPhone, scrapped their plans for Android and started over immediately. Ballmer laughed at it and didn't take it seriously. It's more complicated than that of course, but these kind of races are often lost at the start.
Same with the Zune. The Zune was insanely late to a party that was already over.
Xbox was the one where they were sort of on time, and sort of had a vision. Cribbed from Sega, but still. They were building something decent up until the 360 era. Then came Kinect and the rest is history. They turned back into Microsoft.
I loved the Xbox 360 (great JRPG exclusives, fantastic indie support) and the original Xbox had some cool exclusives too like Panzer Dragoon Orta, but Xbox now just feels a worse alternative to a PC.
The Xbox was always a Trojan horse for Microsoft to win total dominance of the living room, but they've lost that war. But the thing is we actually really liked your horse. Could we have the horse back, minus the whole you trying to invade us nonsense?
The Xbox was always a Trojan horse for Microsoft to win total dominance of the living room, but they've lost that war. But the thing is we actually really liked your horse. Could we have the horse back, minus the whole you trying to invade us nonsense?
Steam could be a new player, but if they are they will be going the handheld route rather than te console route.
Xbox has given less reasons to buy a console, therefore less people are buying it. You can use a PC, you can use the cloud, stream from your old Xbox, use an app on specific tvs, etc etc. part if their whole marketing thing is bringing Xbox games to more screens.
All these are great of course, but it's going to lead to less sales because there is less reasons to own one.
All these are great of course, but it's going to lead to less sales because there is less reasons to own one.
Im curious to how many people use those options, though. Do they have millions buying stuff on their crappy PC store? Is Xcloud blowing up? Are people all over LG or Samsung Xbox apps? I ask honestly because I've used Xcloud a half dozen times, will BUY stuff like Halo or Ori on PC to avoid using their store. I would assume if those options were legitimate replacements for Xbox console players, MS would puff their chest out about it more, no?
It's impressive that PS5 is as close as it is to PS4 given it's much more expensive than the latter was at this point.
That's also a crazy disparity, though not entirely surprising. The Xbox brand just isn't as desirable as it once was. They bet on the wrong horse in gamepass, they don't seem to care about anywhere that isn't North America or the UK, they grew too large too quickly, and still haven't had enough quality or notable releases.
That's also a crazy disparity, though not entirely surprising. The Xbox brand just isn't as desirable as it once was. They bet on the wrong horse in gamepass, they don't seem to care about anywhere that isn't North America or the UK, they grew too large too quickly, and still haven't had enough quality or notable releases.
What's so sad to me about this is that if they were serious about selling hardware they could turn this around so easily.
Just offer a one-click free install of Windows on Series consoles.
Boom, now you have a compelling, cheap, standardized SFF PC which can run basically any game, including most importantly all the games from folks' Steam collection. Which by the way, includes a massive quantity of games that are now owned by Microsoft.
It's just baffling. They have a super compelling SFF PC with awesome specs sitting _right there_
Xbox literally is a shortened name for DirectX box.
So they make two pieces of hardware that are beautifully designed and powerful... and then don't let them run Windows?
It's insane. Hardware sales success is literally staring them right in the face.
Just offer a one-click free install of Windows on Series consoles.
Boom, now you have a compelling, cheap, standardized SFF PC which can run basically any game, including most importantly all the games from folks' Steam collection. Which by the way, includes a massive quantity of games that are now owned by Microsoft.
It's just baffling. They have a super compelling SFF PC with awesome specs sitting _right there_
Xbox literally is a shortened name for DirectX box.
So they make two pieces of hardware that are beautifully designed and powerful... and then don't let them run Windows?
It's insane. Hardware sales success is literally staring them right in the face.
They fucking ruined Halo along with Forza, their biggest franchises in the past that sold hardware and I think GP had something to do with it. Those early x360 years were golden. I miss it. We even had UNO, which was so much fun online.
I think this will probably be their strategy for whatever their next Xbox is, but I don't think the math would work for Series S/X because those were sold at a loss on the assumption that things like GamePass and Xbox Store sales revenue would make it up on the back end. If someone buys a $250 Series S or $450 Series X and uses it to just play their Steam collection, that's a loss for Microsoft.
I don't know why so many people overlook this. Cloud gaming's growth is not a tech problem, it's an infrastructure and governmental problem. I can trust Sony, Microsoft, or even Google to improve streaming tech because they gain from it, but I have zero faith in my country to actually improve internet quality and penetration to the point that cloud gaming is viable for most people. Not when they can ban services like Steam on a whim.
Please elaborate
Tears of the Kingdom took as long and costed as much as a SIE game to develop. This is the longest gap ever for a 3D Mario.
Ninty is far from immune.
Because people don't look at them as villains, they get a free pass.
Cloud is mostly their best bet, but we know we are 10 years away from that, don't know if they can hold out that long.
The Switch 2 era is going to be super interesting. It's not going to get cheaper and they don't have a Wii U backlog to help fill the gaps.
Do you really think so though?
I mean, they sell tons of titles on Steam... so now all the Xbox Series' users with Windows installed can buy their games on Steam, buy new DLC for the Steam games they've already bought...
And then there's the fact that Game Pass already isn't just for Xbox, it gives you access to all the PC games on Windows too.
If they can't make money selling Xbox consoles to people who want to pay for Game Pass and play games on them on Windows, yikes!
I could see S consoles perhaps still being sold at a loss, but we know Series X cost has to be under $450 at this point don't we?
Yup, people thinks low tech automatic = low cost. Long dev cycle is the killer, dev gets paid the same average whether they make a high end game or a low end game, and marketing cost is the same. Only difference on nintendo end they know their games are guaranteed hit that sell millions same reason why big publishers banked on established IP. Smaller games that require shorter dev cycles is more sustainable and can keep things going
Yes the purpose of the hardware and the traditional hardware model is to sell games/services on your storefront because that's where you make your money.
What you are describing probably requires a shift in business model to something where they sell the hardware at cost or at a profit and dont' really compete directly with PlayStations and Switches.
Don't know how much it did or didn't impact Xbox decline, but the naming convention is so stupid I still can't believe they went with it all those years later.
Honestly, parroting most people here, I think Xbox as hardware is done. Unless Microsoft will take a gamble and greatly subsidize a significantly more powerful machine than PS6 - like losing $100-150 on every unit) - or severely undercuts them by the same amount, then I honestly don't see way forward. Maybe if they buy Valve and Xbox becomes Steam machines also. But highly unlikely. Man, real shame, they were in such a great position after 360.
this is making an assumption that steam will give MS a cut of sales/dlc sales when they already dont on PC
I'm sure that selling a powerful gaming PC at a loss, with a free copy of Windows on top, would go suuuuuper well with their PC partners.
You know, those guys who helped them become a Trillion$ company.
Xbox branded HTPC might be the way forward for next gen, if they have one, but doubtful they'll go scorched Earth.
Huh? They get 70% of sales on PC on Steam for the games they own... which is a massive list at this point since they own ABK, Zenimax, Bethesda...
except not every game people buy on steam is games MS owns, a vast majority of them are not
so will the xbox have steam or a truncated MS-only version of steam?
They've sold PC hardware for a long time, how is this any different?
And I don't think they're losing money on Series X at this point. We know PS isn't anymore and the hardware is virtually the same.
It never recovered. Switch and PS4 combo just made it easier for folks to bypass xb last gen. Add in peoples digital libraries on consoles and that's all she wrote. Like Phil said "we lost the worst generation to lose".
I feel like if any of the console pubs effed up last gen they would be pushing daisies by end of this gen. People are not going to change consoles now, possibly ever, and they sure as hell not about to dump a grand trying to own all 3.
Xbox have nowhere left to go.
MS is much more invested in software than hardware when it comes to PC
whens the last time youve seen a MS branded tower, or motherboard, or graphics card
PS5 wasn't but now is because component prices have gone up. Hence they cannot cut prices.
Xbox with its 2 sku approach and lower sales likely has a much higher BOM on Series X
I've noticed that supermarkets in the UK now only stock PS5 and Switch games, the smaller Xbox section has completely gone.
"Everything we show here today will be day one on game pass and day two on PS5"
They don't make any money on PC software people buy for Windows (at least not through their store), I don't see how this is different?
Meanwhile they make a ton of money selling software for Windows. Office for example, and then of course all of their games...
They sell Surface tablets and laptops everywhere? Best Buy, Walmart. They also sell keyboards, mice...
Point is the fact that Microsoft sells hardware doesn't seem to stop all the PC manufacturers from making laptops or tablets (or Steam decks).
I don't understand why somehow it's a crazy idea for Microsoft to sell a SFF Windows machine, when they literally sell every other form factor (tablet, laptop), and sell a ton of software that runs on Windows.
because it sounds like you are asking them to make a Gaming PC and sell it at a massive loss for potentially very little gain when it comes to software in the long term outside of what they already sell thru Window's regularly
$100-200 is what they were reportedly already losing on each Series X sold. It was already greatly subsidized.
The realities of Xbox' strengths/weaknesses are simply at odds with the traditional console business model.
You just made me think of the most stupid outcome of the showcase with whether COD goes on Game Pass Day 1.
"Everything we show today will launch on Game Pass Day 1. And please tune in after for a special Call of Duty developer direct."
And then COD isn't part of the showcase and so people are still going to wonder whether it'll be on Game Pass.
I agree. And it's because they abandoned Xbox.
They went all in on Game Pass, subscriptions, xCloud, "Play Anywhere", that they didn't realize they were devaluing and de-emphasizing the heartbeat of their gaming brand: Xbox.
The Xbox hardware is the center of it all, and Microsoft has tried to move past it over the last 6 years while failing to realize the console platform itself needs to be front and center.
Like John from Digital Foundry said....they've lost their identity. It's now just "Microsoft Gaming".
Nintendo Switch is about to become the best selling console of all time. PS5 sales are up 7% over PS4 this far into the generation.
Microsoft and their decisions are 100% solely responsible for the decline of Xbox hardware.
oh hell
they could at least use that to stall for more time if they still dont have an answer by next month lol
Prebuilt PCs don't make much money, you are asking them to make a windows PC....for what reason? So people instantly install steam on it? Surface Devices are not comparable.