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Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,962
Even if someone is fortunate enough to live in a place that has a $15 minimum wage, that's still only $600 for 40 hours a week before taxes. But a lot of these managers losing workers aren't paying anywhere near that much while the CEOs still collect millions off their hard work.

No sympathy. If you want workers, pay them a good wage.
 

akilshohen

Member
Dec 8, 2017
1,310
What needs to be exposed also is how these jobs are taking advantage of the situation. I had someone call me in to interview, not show up TWICE, and then call me multiple times to set up an interview like they just didn't show up.

I'm working part time at a fast food restaurant (I was previously a manager at a ramen shop), and there were 6 cases of covid quarantine at my store while two other stores were closed for multiple cases. This is on top of me being denied meal and rest breaks.

The enhanced UI gives the ability to actually search for a job that's a good fit, rather than going for the first thing offered.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
The notion that paying people more would cause inflation is absolutely ludicrous given the data we have.

Not only that, but these people have been clamoring for a pay increase for forever. Also, saying these retail/service jobs are easier than higher-skill jobs is also naive as fuck - I work a high skill job and I used to work retail, and I can assure you retail/service work is far more intensive than anything I do as a high-skill worker making 5x what they make per year.

You have data on national scale 50-100% salary hikes not leading to significantly higher costs on everything? I've worked both trade and retail jobs, my average retail day was stocking some boxes and pointing customers to aisles. I spent the vast majority of my time browsing shit on my phone. In trades I was out in 100 degree weather in blazing sun digging channels and burying conduit, hauling around and hanging hundreds of lights, and drilling thousands of feet of wire through rafters and frames. There was no comparison whatsoever between the two.
 

Yokijirou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
663
While I agree with your point, even the lowest paying unemployment state is kicking in like $250 so it's really more like $550+ a week they're taking home

That's not accurate. I was making 170 before they allowed "gig-worker" employment.

That's right I had TWO JOBS :D and STILL was barely scraping by.

Rent is high and absurd in most places. Utilities can get outrageous. (I'm pretty mindful of my usage and it's still high)

People are still getting sick and still dying. These companies don't give a shit.

AND OMG

550! A week!?!?!? WOW! That's too much! All this is laughable and depressing.
 

Jakenbakin

"This guy are sick"
Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,876
You have data on national scale 50-100% salary hikes not leading to significantly higher costs on everything? I've worked both trade and retail jobs, my average retail day was stocking some boxes and pointing customers to aisles. I spent the vast majority of my time browsing shit on my phone. In trades I was out in 100 degree weather in blazing sun digging channels and burying conduit, hauling around and hanging hundreds of lights, and drilling thousands of feet of wire through rafters and frames. There was no comparison whatsoever between the two.
"I had a bad work ethic in retail and I found it easy."
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
If companies start seeing that their competition will outpace them due to a stronger workforce, they will be forced to increase compensation before any of this bullshit matters.

So what I'm saying is... I hope the companies that have raised wages are dummy successful.

You have data on national scale 50-100% salary hikes not leading to significantly higher costs on everything? I've worked both trade and retail jobs, my average retail day was stocking some boxes and pointing customers to aisles. I spent the vast majority of my time browsing shit on my phone. In trades I was out in 100 degree weather in blazing sun digging channels and burying conduit, hauling around and hanging hundreds of lights, and drilling thousands of feet of wire through rafters and frames. There was no comparison whatsoever between the two.

Those price increases would only happen because of greed though. Because in theory, compensation should rise as the company takes in more money. But it clearly hasn't.

At least, not for most workers. I'm sure corporate has equity.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,471
In other words, force some to become virtual indentured servants again. After all it's getting in the way of good service at a restaurant.
 

WindUp

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,396
AOC needs to cut out the hyperbole here, anyone that follows politics knows that the Chamber of Commerce is one of the big lobbying groups. There isn't anything "secret" about them and the interests they serve. They're actually pretty transparent about what they're all about, at least compared to the real dark money groups in DC.
I think what she's referring to is the fact that their clients are not publicly disclosed
 

JohnsonUT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,032
Good for AOC informing people what the chamber of commerce is. A lot of people assume it is something akin to a local department of labor. Other's assume it is some non-profit working on behalf of small businesses.

It is an organization that lobbies and advertises at the behest of owners of medium-sized and large businesses (depending on the city/region).
 

kukubrew

Member
Nov 7, 2017
342
Any idea whether the $300 bonus is counted towards that tax exempt limit? Even once taxes kick in though, it's still far more than most retail and restaurant employees earn.
It's any unemployment insurance payment, state UI + Federal PUA. If you got more than $10,200 of UI+PUA income in 2020, you will owe taxes on that income. Now, your total earnings may still put you at a very low tax liability and with exceptions or credits you may owe nothing.

Let's say you made 10k before the whole country shut down, then got another 15k in UI. Your total tax liability would be 25,000 - 10,200 = 14,800. Standard deduction for single is 12,400 so that takes your liability down to 2,400 income on which you would pay any tax. I think you owe nothing on the first ~$9,800 of taxable income, so your effective tax would be 0. if you had any taxes withheld from your 10k of wage income you would get that in a tax return.

I'm not a tax accountant, but I did stay at holiday express back in 2018 one time...
 
May 21, 2018
2,029
I don't know if the Chamber of Commerce has been living under a rock, but there is a pandemic going around as well.
 

Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
I actually haven't searched for any press releases, but have any companies stated that if they went to 15 to 18 per hour minimum, what would their profit forecast be?

Yeah I remember some economist years ago doing the math and if McDonalds had raised their minimum wage to $15 an hour, they would have had to raise the price of the Quarter Pounder like 25 cents to make up the lost income lol.

Those aren't exact numbers and I have no idea where the article is anymore, but it was pretty absurd how easy it is for larger companies to eat minimum wage increases. We have just been conditioned to accept the fact that companies make billions of dollars while only paying their employees the barest % of that profit. (Also the capitalist idea that if McDonalds makes 6 billion in profit this year, and 5.8 billion in profit next year the business is a failure)

Small businesses and medium sized businesses tend to be the ones who struggle more with minimum wage increases, as wages tend to be a much higher percent of their cost.
 

PanickyFool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
Prepandemic stats have 50% of families in poverty not having any source of income, e.g. working.

It is going to be very interesting to see actually academic studies after this period.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
Those price increases would only happen because of greed though. Because in theory, compensation should rise as the company takes in more money. But it clearly hasn't.

At least, not for most workers. I'm sure corporate has equity.

In an ideal world, but the definition of capitalism is greed. They're never going to "trickle down" willingly or voluntarily, and the "free market" will do nothing but reward the megacorps and conglomerates who will stamp out all competitors and charge whatever they want.

"I had a bad work ethic in retail and I found it easy."

Nothing to do with work ethic, it was just a low to mid volume location where assigned tasks (and even extra tasks) could be accomplished in a fraction of the work day. The store was clean, well organized, and top rated in the area, there was simply nothing meaningful to do with the extra hours.
 
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eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
In an ideal world, but the definition of capitalism is greed. They're never going to "trickle down" willingly or voluntarily, and the "free market" will do nothing but reward the megacorps and conglomerates who will stamp out all competitors and charge whatever they want.
but we are seeing it work, there is a labor shortage and workers are taking advantage to force higher wages, and companies that refuse are stringing to find employees.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
In an ideal world, but the definition of capitalism is greed. They're never going to "trickle down" willingly or voluntarily, and the "free market" will do nothing but reward the megacorps and conglomerates who will stamp out all competitors and charge whatever they want.

I don't anticipate anything trickling down. I'm just saying that there's no reason for prices to increase w/ salaries except for greed.

And we shouldn't let the businesses that can afford it bully people with that threat.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,569
No one wants to work crappy jobs with crappy hours for crappy wages, let alone in the middle of an ongoing pandemic. It's so simple, yet these vultures keep whining about not being able to keep treating people as disposable.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
but we are seeing it work, there is a labor shortage and workers are taking advantage to force higher wages, and companies that refuse are stringing to find employees.

And if they have to pay someone $20/hour to make a sandwich, and their suppliers have to pay a driver $30/hour to deliver the ingredients, and the farmers have to pay field hands $40/hour to gather the ingredients, what do you think that's going to do to the price of a sandwich? These company's are not going to voluntarily cut into their profits, growth trajectories, or executive bonuses for the greater good, they're going to increases prices so they can exceed their current profits, growth, and executive bonuses.
 
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eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
And if they have to pay someone $20/hour to make a sandwich, and their suppliers have to pay a driver $30/hour to deliver the ingredients, and the farmers have to pay field hands $40/hour to gather the ingredients, what do you think that's going to do to the price of a sandwich? These company's are not going to voluntarily cut into their profits, growth trajectories, or executive bonuses for the greater good, they're going to increases prices so they can exceed their current profits, growth, and executive bonuses.
that depends on the market, if its highly compeditive there want be a ton of room to raise prices.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
that depends on the market, if its highly compeditive there want be a ton of room to raise prices.

Sound in theory, but it assumes the competition is fair. In reality the largest competitors will loss-lead and subsize low prices long enough to run everyone else out of business, at which point they will set prices wherever they wish. A rising tide lifts the Navy Destroyer that sank all the other boats.
 
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Some of the reactions I've been seeing for this report are so dumb. Did we not just come off from about a month's long discourse about how we shouldn't raise the minimum wage because retail and service workers are all unskilled vermin who deserve nothing?

You spent a month calling an entire class of workers everything short of slurs and now you're angry about them not doing what you want them to? That's what we're doing? In a pandemic?
 

Mercury_Sagit

Member
Aug 4, 2020
333
And if they have to pay someone $20/hour to make a sandwich, and their suppliers have to pay a driver $30/hour to deliver the ingredients, and the farmers have to pay field hands $40/hour to gather the ingredients, what do you think that's going to do to the price of a sandwich? These company's are not going to voluntarily cut into their profits, growth trajectories, or executive bonuses for the greater good, they're going to increases prices so they can exceed their current profits, growth, and executive bonuses.
This may work for discretionary goods (more so for luxury ones) but staples goods (which will actually contribute to the majority of the working class' spending) don't have that luxury imo. Trying to raise the price here is the same as surrendering market share for competitors.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,878
New York City
Some of the reactions I've been seeing for this report are so dumb. Did we not just come off from about a month's long discourse about how we shouldn't raise the minimum wage because retail and service workers are all unskilled vermin who deserve nothing?

You spent a month calling an entire class of workers everything short of slurs and now you're angry about them not doing what you want them to? That's what we're doing? In a pandemic?
Some things don't change regardless of the pandemic and business owners feeling entitled to cheap labor is one of them.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,866
"The disappointing jobs report makes it clear that paying people not to work is dampening what should be a stronger jobs market," the U.S. Chamber of Commerce said in the hours after the Labor Department released its April 2021 employment report.

"One step policymakers should take now is ending the $300 weekly supplemental unemployment benefit," the lobbying group added. "Based on the Chamber's analysis, the $300 benefit results in approximately one in four recipients taking home more in unemployment than they earned working."


Hmm, hang out at home and get a small, but decent unemployment check or be abused at work by employers/customers, get barely to no benefits, work crushing hours, and get paid a shit wage.

Gee, can't imagine why people would take the former instead of the oh so glowing latter option.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
They are seriously lobbying to have the government end the $300 bonus early, despite the fact that it was signed into law with a specific end date?

There is literally no chance that happens. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,075
They are seriously lobbying to have the government end the $300 bonus early, despite the fact that it was signed into law with a specific end date?

There is literally no chance that happens. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

We already have asshole governors in Red States ending it early.
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,870
They are seriously lobbying to have the government end the $300 bonus early, despite the fact that it was signed into law with a specific end date?

There is literally no chance that happens. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

They're probably lobbying instead for individual state action like Montana and SC are doing to end involvement with the federal unemployment benefit vs. waiting it out until September.
 

walkinfast

Member
Aug 24, 2019
1,289
Several businesses have done this analysis and for example Chipotle said going to $15 nationwide would cause their prices on dishes to go up 2-3%. So a $7 burrito would be $7.21 at most.

Fox News: "A $15 minimum wage at Chiptole could make you choose between rent and a burrito".
 

discotheque

Member
Dec 23, 2019
3,861


The lower than expected net employment number is clearly being caused more by people (mainly women) entering NILF status and leaving the workforce rather than unemployment. Since NILFs aren't eligible for the enhanced UI, it doesn't make much sense to blame UI for the weak numbers.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
We already have asshole governors in Red States ending it early.
They're probably lobbying instead for individual state action like Montana and SC are doing to end involvement with the federal unemployment benefit vs. waiting it out until September.

Right, I meant on a federal level. You're going to have a few red states end it early but I don't expect it to become widespread.

Even in the case of Montana and South Carolina, they're not ending immediately, which is what the Chamber seems to be lobbying for. I think they're still going through the end of June, so about two months left.

Ending it two months early is still disgusting and indefensible but any states that follow suit would likely do something similar rather than ending it immediately. So what the hell is even the point of lobbying for this? It wouldn't even have much of an impact.

This is just legitimately evil.
 

Biggersmaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Minneapolis
They are right, it is because of the stimulus plan. People who make $600 a week on unemployment don't want to work 3 shit jobs for the same amount. Pay people a living wage, then we'll talk.
 
NBC News: "Biden seizes on disappointing job numbers to make the case for his $4 trillion in spending plans"
OP
OP
Dakhil

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
www.nbcnews.com

Biden seizes on disappointing job numbers to make the case for his $4 trillion in spending plans

Republicans pointed to the lackluster growth as evidence that the president's policies are discouraging people from working.
WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden argued that Friday's disappointing employment numbers are evidence Congress should pass his $4 trillion infrastructure and jobs package to jumpstart the economy — and are not a byproduct of his policies as Republicans contended.

Biden said the economy is still reeling from the pandemic and that help is needed for the millions of Americans who continue to suffer.

Republicans, who have been arguing for months that boosted unemployment benefits are stalling job growth and that more government spending could spur inflation, pointed to the slow job growth as evidence that Biden's request would hurt, not help, the nation.

Biden also noted that much of the $2 trillion in the Covid-19 relief bill approved in March is still being distributed, including a $29 billion fund for restaurants that the administration started taking applications for this week.

"We have to build back better, that's why we need the American Jobs Plan I proposed to put us in a position where we can build back better, to reclaim our position as the leading and most innovative nation in the world," Biden said.

The U.S. economy gained 266,000 jobs last month, far short of the more than 1 million economic analysts predicted. Economists attributed the lackluster numbers to a range of issues, including parents being unable to work because of a lack of child care, concerns over health and safety in the workplace, and workers disincentivized from returning to the job market because of expanded unemployment benefits.

Some of Biden's spending proposals are intended to tackle those issues. Biden wants Congress to pass a $2.3 trillion spending bill that would fund everything from new bridges and electric vehicle charging stations to helping families pay for elder care. He's also asking Congress to fund a second $2 trillion package that would provide free pre-K education, extend a child tax credit and help defray child care costs.

"My laser focus is on growing the nation's economy and creating jobs," Biden said. "My laser focus is on vaccinating our nation, and we're making continued progress. My laser focus is on one more thing, making sure working people in this country, hard working people are no longer left out in the cold. They're going to get to share the benefits of a rising economy. It's been a long time since that happened."

Economists had expected to see the jobs market power back in April as millions of recently vaccinated Americans started returning to activities like traveling and dining out.

"This is a mixed bag for the White House, there's some things that really, they believe, will help especially female labor force participation," Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, said on MSNBC. But he added that "this isn't like a slam dunk that the things they are proposing are going to solve the problem."

But some economists say employers, particularly in the restaurant and entertainment industry, have been struggling to find workers because Biden's relief package which included extended pandemic benefits for the unemployed, is deterring some workers from returning to their old job or seeking out a new position.

Bank of America estimates that for those who were earning less than $32,000 a year before the pandemic, unemployment pays more than their former job. And, the bank estimates, that could keep 1 million people out of the workforce.

After the jobs report, the Chamber of Commerce called for an end to the extra $300 in federal unemployment benefits, saying it's keeping people from returning to work.

Earlier this week Montana's Republican governor said his state would no longer participate in the federal pandemic-related benefits program. Instead, it will use the money from the American Rescue Plan to pay people $1,200 if they take a job.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen pushed back on the idea that Americans are not working because of the unemployment benefits saying she isn't seeing that being reflected in the economic data.

"I really don't think the major factor is the extra unemployment," she said Friday.

Rather, Yellen said hiring was being slowed by child care issues as some schools remain closed, fears about Covid exposure and bottlenecks in the supply chain. She said she expects the country to return to full employment next year.

Republicans blamed the Biden administration's policies for the weak jobs report Friday, with many arguing that now is not the time for Congress and the president to raise taxes.

"Joe Biden is squandering the economic recovery he inherited from President Trump and Republicans. The numbers don't lie – this is the biggest miss on a jobs report in more than two decades and Biden's failed policies are to blame," Ronna McDaniel, chairwoman of the Republican National Committee, said in a statement.

House Minority Whip Steve Scalise, R-La., said in a statement that the report was "disappointing but not surprising." Scalise and other GOP lawmakers suggested that it's partially the result of people relying on unemployment benefits that the federal government has boosted.

A person who works 40 hours a week in Scalie's state at the minimum wage would make less than the $300 federal unemployment benefits.

"We need to end the wasteful government practice of paying people more money to stay at home than going back to work," Scalise said. "Manufacturing jobs actually declined in April. We are seeing alarming signs of inflation, fears of a massive tax increases, and muddled messages from the White House about returning to normal life."
 

Deleted member 49482

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2018
3,302
Imagine, in 2021 with all the data and analysis we have, making the argument that paying living wages will be canceled out by subsequent inflation.