How should competitive multiplayer shooter games (first and third person) handle cross play?

  • Input Based Matchmaking for all Playlists (No exceptions. Mixed input parties not allowed)

    Votes: 54 17.5%
  • Input Based Matchmaking for all Playlists but mixed parties are put into mouse and keyboard lobbies

    Votes: 126 40.9%
  • Mixed Input matchmaking for "social" playlists. Input Based Matchmaking for "ranked" playlists

    Votes: 53 17.2%
  • Mixed Input Matchmaking for all Playlists. All inputs can play together in all playlists

    Votes: 28 9.1%
  • No specific best case example. Let each game handle it individually as the developers see fit

    Votes: 40 13.0%
  • Other (some example of matchmaking not mentioned above or some combination not mentioned above)

    Votes: 7 2.3%

  • Total voters
    308

Stoney Mason

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,962
With the rise of crossplay I was wondering how people actually feel games should handle this since many games are taking different approaches nowadays.

Just to define some of these terms.

Input Based Matchmaking is when crossplay allows mouse and keyboard users whether its on console or PC to match up only against other mouse and keyboard players on those same platforms. And dual analog whether its on console or PC to match up against only competing dual analog users.

Mixed Input Matchmaking is when you ignore the input type and just put people together based on some other criteria. Proximity, server, SBMM, randomness, etc.

Then you have different flavors of these two that try to combine the approaches in some specific way.

Sometimes you will have mixed inputs who want to crossplay with each other. You can either put those people in the mouse and keyboard lobbies or you can just throw them together in whatever playlist they chose together if that's how you want to handle it.

I've tried to cover the most relevant cases with the poll options. But I left one option for those who just think the developer should handle it however they see fit.

I left another option for "Other". To cover anything I didn't give a poll option to. For example console only crossplay in all cases. That's an opinion some people seem to have but I didn't want to go down that road in a thread specifically because it tends to generate toxic discussion. But if you want that option or that is your opinion just choose other. Or any other version of matchmaking not covered by one of the other examples.

Please be polite.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,187
Best Case: Console Only + Controller Only

Middle Case: Super Strict Input Based Matchmaking (Let's be honest this has been a disaster and rarely works out)

Worst Case: Full Unrestricted Cross Play
 

Big Yoshi

Member
Nov 25, 2018
1,822
By default Keyboard console players and keyboard/gamepad PC players should be grouped, While gamepad console players should be in a separate Que.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever™
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,741
Fully open crossplay across all platforms that can handle the base requirements of the game. Using Battlefield 2042 as an example, it makes no sense to put PS4 and PS5 players together when PS4 can't handle the player count of PS5. So naturally, the PS4 players aren't part of my proposed "fully open crossplay".

That said, two lobby types. One for mouse + keyboard, and one for everything else.
 

blue_phazon

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,320
I want a mix of all inputs for all modes. Good SBMM can match players who perform the same regardless of input
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,696
Input based matchmaking. After Apex and Warzone I still don't think developers have figured out how to balance console aim assist properly.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,944
Ibis Island
I don't think there are any one-size-fits-all answers here. As so much can depend on the game, the type of SBMM the title has, and the controller assist as well.

With that said if we want to talk more generally, matchmaking should always prioritize the input and really only pull from a different input when needed. So a BR With 99 Controller players and 1 M& KB is fine while the opposite wouldn't be good.

Being able to play with your friends regardless of the platform should ALWAYS be possible though. Even if that means you have more work cut out for you "Like if you play Overwatch on PS4 but your friend is on PC"
 

theosmeo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
773
Best Case: Console Only + Controller Only

Middle Case: Super Strict Input Based Matchmaking (Let's be honest this has been a disaster and rarely works out)

Worst Case: Full Unrestricted Cross Play

what are examples of it being a disaster? i do not have very much knowledge of fps games and from an outsider it seems good but i see where there could be issues
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,187
what are examples of it being a disaster? i do not have very much knowledge of fps games and from an outsider it seems good but i see where there could be issues

From Warzone to Apex to Fortnite, every game that has touted it's "Input-based Matchmaking" has been just BSing. Most games you will find usually a large mix of the two. It's rare for it to actually work as they claim it should.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
In Shooters this has been a disaster.

Unless a Controller player purposefully parties with a M&K player, they should never see a M&K player in their lobby.

Keep everyone on their own islands.
I've been the controller player playing pc games and I'm all about it.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,501
if it's all 3 platforms, you do console only unless you have PC in your party.

if it's one console+PC, you do input based matchmaking unless matchmaking times are too long.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,552
Austin
Input based in competitive playlists unless mixed in which case it's mouse and keyboard for everyone.

Completely mixed in casual game modes, get over your stats. Most of us pc players on kbm are just as trash as all you console players.

No opt out.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
i like how apex does it. consoles are cross play and if the console players queue up with a pc player then they have to play with pc players.
 

ManNR

Member
Feb 13, 2019
3,006
I just want to be able to play games with my friends no matter what we are using.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,187
Input based in competitive playlists unless mixed in which case it's mouse and keyboard for everyone.

Completely mixed in casual game modes, get over your stats. Most of us pc players on kbm are just as trash as all you console players.

No opt out.

It's not about skill level other than the fact that on M&K it's objectively easier than it is on Controller, hence why Controllers need aim assist.

YOU might be having fun, but I can assure you the controller player your killing isn't.

We legit just saw this in BF2048 where the lobbies were completely mixed leaving Consoles players having an absolutely miserable time until they turned off cross play.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,552
Austin
It's not about skill level other than the fact that on M&K it's objectively easier than it is on Controller, hence why Controllers need aim assist.

YOU might be having fun, but I can assure you the controller player your killing isn't.
It's not objectively easier though, aiming may be faster but we have like 50 freaking keys to remember for every game, plus we have to stretch our fingers so damn far sometimes to stay on WASD that we end our gaming sessions with finger pain lmao

Plus you do get that aim assist like you mentioned, it's not like it's turned off in cross play.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,187
It's not objectively easier though, aiming may be faster but we have like 50 freaking keys to remember for every game, plus we have to stretch our fingers so damn far sometimes to stay on WASD that we end our gaming sessions with finger pain lmao

Plus you do get that aim assist like you mentioned, it's not like it's turned off in cross play.

Yes, it's objectively easier wtf is this??? lol

Also 50 keys every single game? What? Not even close unless every game your playing is a Simulator.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,834
Sure don't work on stopping cheating for everyone, just separate pc entirely because of the 1% of cheaters. Then we can separate the two consoles because of the players who use those controller cheating input devices too right?

Then we'll have cross play with everyone separated, great idea.
Nope we can just stick to deleting PC. Works for me. 1%? 🤨
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,791
Germany
It's not objectively easier though, aiming may be faster but we have like 50 freaking keys to remember for every game, plus we have to stretch our fingers so damn far sometimes to stay on WASD that we end our gaming sessions with finger pain lmao

Plus you do get that aim assist like you mentioned, it's not like it's turned off in cross play.
Have you ever played a PC game?
what is this take lol
 

VAPORxDYNE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
184
Assuming the matchmaking system is trying to place everyone appropriately, shouldn't it be fine to just mix everyone together? k&m players that are amazing will skyrocket in mmr and be placed against each other and pad players that are able to keep up. I'm sure that there are k&m players who can't aim at all and would actually do better on a controller due to the assist and there are controller players who will do well despite going up against k&m players. Either way, you'll be placed based on your performance rather than your peripheral of choice. Maybe that's too hard though. The only downside would be for people with a high ego who can't stand that they could be higher on some ranking if those players with a different peripheral were removed.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,181
Ultimately it doesn't matter - the third party M+K adapters can't be stopped from workign with a console anyway. It should just be input based and it will greatly reduce the number of people cheating the system just to dominate,but you can't stop all of those people anyway.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,452
Console only or Input based at the very least.

PC/Console cross-play was possible the entirety of last generation and pitting the two against each other in competitive shooters was never an expectation for obvious reasons. I have no idea why it suddenly became a thing once the console cross-play barriers came down.
 

Flandy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,445
It's not objectively easier though, aiming may be faster but we have like 50 freaking keys to remember for every game, plus we have to stretch our fingers so damn far sometimes to stay on WASD that we end our gaming sessions with finger pain lmao

Plus you do get that aim assist like you mentioned, it's not like it's turned off in cross play.
blinking-eyes-man.gif

This post is unhinged
 

Ramirez

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,231
Input based, the BF beta was no fun against majority PC players. Average player on a controller is simply outmatched mid/long range by a mouse.
 

Blergmeister

Member
Oct 27, 2017
356
I mean - if match making is doing its job shouldnt players be matched with people they'd have about the same odds of winning against, regardless of input method? If this is not the experience isn't it then the fault of the matchmaking system rating players?
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,220
Phoenix, AZ
I think the recent implementation of the way Overwatch does it is what I prefer. Mixed parties for casual modes, put in PC lobbies, and preferably with other mixed parties. Competitive is input based, and separates consoles and pc.

I mean - if match making is doing its job shouldnt players be matched with people they'd have about the same odds of winning against, regardless of input method? If this is not the experience isn't it then the fault of the matchmaking system rating players?

problem is in a shooter, aiming with a mouse gives you an advantage. Depending on how aim intensive the game or character you play is, it would mean that controller/console players could never rank up as high as a keyboard and mouse player. Sure for casual modes it doesn't matter as much, as there's no ranked ladder to climb, but for competitive, it would basically lock console players out of the top ranks.
 
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DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
Opt in only is the right answer.
If you want crossplay deal with all the problems that comes with it.
For those that don't care about it they don't have to deal with all the drawbacks.
 

Blergmeister

Member
Oct 27, 2017
356
problem is in a shooter, aiming with a mouse gives you an advantage. Depending on how aim intensive the game or character you play is, it would mean that controller/console players could never rank up as high as a keyboard and mouse player. Sure for casual modes it doesn't matter as much, as there's no ranked ladder to climb, but for competitive, it would basically lock console players out of the top ranks.
My instinct is that this is the lesser problem than "able to play with your friends" that cross play solves. A solution could be to display your rank per system type, so you'd know you're in the top 1% of Xbox players for instance
 

Deimos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,824
"bUt CoNsOlEs HaVe ChEaTeRs ToO!!!"

It's Ignoring the fact that you have to buy additional hardware to do said hacking, the amount of people willing to do so is astronomically smaller than people on PC who just buy a program.
lmao. Buying hardware off Amazon is way easier and more secure than giving a fishy website my credit card info and hoping I don't download a virus.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
45,187
lmao. Buying hardware off Amazon is way easier and more secure than giving a fishy website my credit card info and hoping I don't download a virus.

More people are doing the latter than the former. It's not a coincidence that when you turn off crossplay in games like Warzone that the amount of hackers drops off a cliff. They'll exist but far far rarer.
 

MattEnth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
San Francisco, CA
Shouldn't an Elo system just resolve this?

Perhaps you'd make different seed elo for console vs PC

But not sure why an MMR system wouldn't be able to adequately account for this.
 

calibos

Member
Dec 13, 2017
2,034
As long as it's an option and not forced is my only prerequisite. Really can't stand that I can't shut it off in Warzone on Xbox.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,060
Las Vegas
Input based matchmaking, mixed input gets put into M/KB lobbies. Really hope that becomes the standard going forward.

I play on console with controller. I have no issues playing against PC players, I just don't want to go up against M/KB.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,211
Apex legends seems to be doing it well. Controller players even often have an advantage.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,968
Opt in and out.

It also really depends on the game, M/KB isn't always an advantage. For instance, in Halo MCC a lot of M/KB players complain because they gave controllers a hefty aim-assist and they can easily compete with M/KB.