eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,388
The important part of why he's back is that he can get mainstream Democrats (and whatever anti-Trump Bush-ites who are still in the Republican party) to listen to actual facts. Mainstream media has become so politically polarized and propagandized since he was last on TDS (far more so than back when Jon was railing at Crossfire) that the important bit is that Jon is a somewhat centrist, but kind of respected by both sides figure who can poke at both parties and get centrists and "moderate" Republicans to think about issues in a context outside of the usual Fox bubble.
 

ohkay

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,025
It's not that it's on deaf ears. It's that he has this audience and instead of falling back on a comparison of the candidates' alleged age related issues that you can see anywhere, he could have taken this as an opportunity to really come out swinging at the things Trump has promised for his second term. He could have used that position to make that portion of his fandom that hangs on his word actually care about something real and not the same age related stuff.

He only gets one "first show back" and now the articles about it aren't about how he tore Trump a new one, but how he admitted that Biden is too old. Stewart has been around long enough to know that he'd be a useful tool for these people. I'm not against going after Biden for the things he deserves to be gone after for, but his age and his verbal stumbles shouldn't be "first show back" fodder.

Also, it's not like I'm angry with Jon over this. It might seem like I was really put off, but I'm not. I just think it's a missed opportunity.
Honest question: do you think centrists/independents would watch if they thought he was just another democrat mouthpiece doing nothing but attacking the right (who 100% deserve to be attacked)?

I think by taking this approach, people in the middle may be more open to watching him in the future since he's open to criticizing the faults of both sides (even if the right deserves significantly more criticism), and he can gradually swing it into all of the terrible, awful, unforgiveable stuff that Trump has done (and is planning to do).
 

CreepingFear

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,766
I know many of you have seen this already, but I highly recommend the following video


View: https://youtu.be/9hCxHvogsTY



He's a gen X apathetic person.

I applaud what he did for the 9/11 responders though.


I can't put up with his both sides shit for this election. This is not 2004.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,939
Honest question: do you think centrists/independents would watch if they thought he was just another democrat mouthpiece doing nothing but attacking the right (who 100% deserve to be attacked)?

I think by taking this approach, people in the middle may be more open to watching him in the future since he's open to criticizing the faults of both sides (even if the right deserves significantly more criticism), and he can gradually swing it into all of the terrible, awful, unforgiveable stuff that Trump has done (and is planning to do).

I think they'll watch because it's Jon Stewart and he's very good at getting people to care about things. I just think he had an opportunity here and he wasted it.
 

bdbdbd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,928
I'm sure Biden is working on getting younger as we speak.
Or, you know, maybe take to heart some of Stewart's *actual* suggestions like not skipping on primetime opportunities to have public interviews in front of a massive audience to demonstrate just how insightful, focused and energetic he still is vs. a clearly staged bit about cookies that he still almost flubbed.

But other than that, yes I will be happy if that's what this turns out to be. Honestly that would need him staying on after the election as well.
Yes, because who cares about all that thankless off-camera political work he's done for vets and 911 first responders? For someone so concerned about Stewart's voice, you really don't seem to be hearing him.

Besides, what's the point of staying on when he didn't convert everyone on day one? First it was a sprint, now its a marathon?
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,939
Or, you know, maybe take to heart some of Stewart's *actual* suggestions like not skipping on primetime opportunities to have public interviews in front of a massive audience to demonstrate just how insightful, focused and energetic he still is vs. a clearly staged bit about cookies that he still almost flubbed.


Yes, because who cares about all that thankless off-camera political work he's done for vets and 911 first responders? For someone so concerned about Stewart's voice, you really don't seem to be hearing him.

Um, first that top part was a joke and I don't know what the hell you're talking about wit hthe second part because it has nothing to do with his work with first responders which I already spoke about earlier.

There's no reason to be defensive. I don't hate Jon Stewart or anything. I literally just talked about what I considered a missed opportunity and people got a burr in their pants about it.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,761
Massachusetts
I know many of you have seen this already, but I highly recommend the following video


View: https://youtu.be/9hCxHvogsTY



He's a gen X apathetic person.

I applaud what he did for the 9/11 responders though.


I can't put up with his both sides shit for this election. This is not 2004.

I don't think he would be credible to either side then.

I'm not fooling myself to think some folks are just going to buy into it. They'll still hate him. He's speaking to how a lot of people are feeling right now in general and I think it's a good first day in the office for him.
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
Watching this made me remember why I watched this show religiously when I was in high school. He did great for his first night back imo.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,834
People are shocked that a Daily News Comedy show is discussing... the news of the day.

Biden's Age was the big political topic last week that was all over the news. He didn't choose this topic out of spite, it's literally what EVERY News Org was talking about last week.

He's not going to talk about these other topics until they come up in the news cycle. This isn't a Youtube series where he picks and choose what to report, the subject goes with the News of the Day.
 

DarkJ

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,169
The material was funny but I cant enjoy it. This is one of those things that would be funny if it was vs Chris Christie. Somebody younger, not crazy, and not anti-democracy. It's not that you can't critique Biden. It's just that Biden old looks like such an infinitesimally small issue in the grand scheme of things. Especially when, the things Trump says and his memory are that much vastly more insane than Biden's gaffes. If you do 15 minutes on Biden being old and then 30 seconds of all Trumps issues, it makes them seem like comparable complaints. Which in reality they are not.

I'm also not sure about his phrasing about the country being fine in the end as long as you keep working at it. Trump tried to overthrow the government, said he'd be a dictator if he won, plans on a life time appointment, plans to raise a personal army to take hold of cities, plans to round up millions of people for deportation, nation wide abortion ban, wants Russia to overun Nato allies, said he wants to scrap the constitution, etc etc the list goes on and on.

That's why it feels both sides to me. Trump winning would redefine everything about the country. Trump is so far off the charts anti-democracy and even more brain mush than Biden. This would be a genuine complaint of Biden if his opponent wasn't worse mentally, physically, and in policy.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,066
People are shocked that a Daily News Comedy show is discussing... the news of the day.

Biden's Age was the big political topic last week that was all over the news. He didn't choose this topic out of spite, it's literally what EVERY News Org was talking about last week.

He's not going to talk about these other topics until they come up in the news cycle. This isn't a Youtube series where he picks and choose what to report, the subject goes with the News of the Day.
Yup, just watch the news this week for whatever new Biden news is popular to know what Jon will talk about next Monday.

And since normal news shows downplay and ignore Trump shit, Jon will downplay and ignore Trump shit, and make new and wonderful content for the alt-right to enjoy since "lol. Libs are mad" is what they live for.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,159
People are shocked that a Daily News Comedy show is discussing... the news of the day.

Biden's Age was the big political topic last week that was all over the news. He didn't choose this topic out of spite, it's literally what EVERY News Org was talking about last week.

He's not going to talk about these other topics until they come up in the news cycle. This isn't a Youtube series where he picks and choose what to report, the subject goes with the News of the Day.
Seriously. It was on all the news. I overheard strangers talking about it over the weekend. It's in the news right now and for good reason. I thought his criticism was certainly better put than Colbert who really does do "he's old" jokes and that's it.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,761
Massachusetts
That's why it feels both sides to me. Trump winning would redefine everything about the country. Trump is so far off the charts anti-democracy and even more brain mush than Biden. This would be a genuine complaint of Biden if his opponent wasn't worse mentally, physically, and in policy.
Then you should seriously listen to the advice he gave at the end of the episode. If you just look at this as a one time event, no matter the outcome you're missing the point.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,834
And since normal news shows downplay and ignore Trump shit, Jon will downplay and ignore Trump shit, and make new and wonderful content for the alt-right to enjoy since "lol. Libs are mad" is what they live for.

Did you ignore the part of the Segment where he showed Trump also misremembering things during his Deposition? Or the part where he showed Trump Mis-speaking at Rallies? Or all the other things Trump does, worse than BIden, that people don't criticize him about?

He literally pointed out this exact thing you are accusing him of in the Segment.
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
And since normal news shows downplay and ignore Trump shit, Jon will downplay and ignore Trump shit, and make new and wonderful content for the alt-right to enjoy since "lol. Libs are mad" is what they live for.
I think that's too pessimistic of a view. I fully believe he will do thorough takedowns of some alt-right icons and they'll grow to hate him. Elon was praising Stewart this morning, for instance, but I'd be willing to bet it's just a matter of time until Stewart brings him up on the show and it won't be pretty for Elon when he does.

He'll get some jabs in at Dems for sure, but anyone who thinks this will be a "both sides are equally evil" thing forgot who Jon Stewart is.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
15,377
Honest question: do you think centrists/independents would watch if they thought he was just another democrat mouthpiece doing nothing but attacking the right (who 100% deserve to be attacked)?

I think by taking this approach, people in the middle may be more open to watching him in the future since he's open to criticizing the faults of both sides (even if the right deserves significantly more criticism), and he can gradually swing it into all of the terrible, awful, unforgiveable stuff that Trump has done (and is planning to do).
I can answer that. I do NOT want to watch 40 minutes a week of "Trump is evil." I already know that.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,006
Did you ignore the part of the Segment where he showed Trump also misremembering things during his Deposition? Or the part where he showed Trump Mis-speaking at Rallies? Or all the other things Trump does, worse than BIden, that people don't criticize him about?

He literally pointed out this exact thing you are accusing him of in the Segment.

Unfortunately folks no longer consume media that way. So it's whatever clip is trending with someone regurgitating their take on it on TikTok, YouTube, Reddit or Instagram.
 

DarkJ

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,169
Then you should seriously listen to the advice he gave at the end of the episode. If you just look at this as a one time event, no matter the outcome you're missing the point.

Did you not read my middle paragraph? I actually disagreed with his advice. He said bad things might happen and the country is not over if Trump wins. I disagree with that outlook. There's no coming back from a Trump second term when he makes good on his promises. Which he will because he has gone unpunished for anything hes ever done. This isn't oh no the corporate tax rate is changing if my guy wins/loses. This is having a dictator for life voted in, this is having the national guard round millions of people up in cities, this is jailing women for medical issues, this is Russia vs Europe in our lifetime, etc etc. These are all things Trump and his cronies have either explicitly said or eluded too.

Edit: Responded to someone I thought responded to me. I took your name out. My apologies to the second poster.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,066
I think that's too pessimistic of a view. I fully believe he will do thorough takedowns of some alt-right icons and they'll grow to hate him. Elon was praising Stewart this morning, for instance, but I'd be willing to bet it's just a matter of time until Stewart brings him up on the show and it won't be pretty for Elon when he does.

He'll get some jabs in at Dems for sure, but anyone who thinks this will be a "both sides are equally evil" thing forgot who Jon Stewart is.
I might watch next week, see if this was a fluke. But all I saw this week is a hack pushing the both sides shit and leaning into the voter apathy that could get enough people to stay home and let trump win.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,159
Unfortunately folks no longer consume media that way. So it's whatever clip is trending with someone regurgitating their take on it on TikTok, YouTube, Reddit or Instagram.
Considering all the clips Biden generated this past week you're literally asking Jon Stewart to edit himself more and be more careful about his comments and critiques than the president himself and his media team are being. He's not White House PR.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,006
Considering all the clips Biden generated this past week you're literally asking Jon Stewart to edit himself more and be more careful about his comments and critiques than the president himself and his media team are being. He's not White House PR.

I am not asking John to do any of that. Just answering Pendas inquiry as to why the counterpoints raised during the show aren't highlighted as much as the few clips that went viral.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,593
I know people loathe the both sides stuff but honestly, I don't need an ideologically pure approach, and I think this was a pretty even-handed look at the age issue (i.e. they're both pretty up there, both have noticeably declined in some way or another in the past 10 years, and it's only going to get worse) without pretending there's not a ton of other shit on Trump on top of the question of his mental fitness.

The key voters in this election (as in the last two) are the "dislike boths," people who don't really care for either candidate, and I think this would come off as a rational and objective pitch to those people. Like, if a few dozen people in Pennsylvania, who are otherwise in a right-wing bubble, see this clip and are reminded that Trump is closing in on 80 and clearly doesn't know what he's talking about half the time... that's good! Pairing that with a message that you DO have to go out and vote, and pay attention to this stuff, and contribute to the political landscape of the country, is also good! It doesn't have to, and shouldn't be, a Biden ad, to do some good in the places where it counts.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,834
Seriously. It was on all the news. I overheard strangers talking about it over the weekend. It's in the news right now and for good reason. I thought his criticism was certainly better put than Colbert who really does do "he's old" jokes and that's it.

Which is why I'm not sure where this both siding thing is coming from. Biden's Mental Competence was ALL OVER the news... and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY included clips of Trump also mis-speaking, also mis-remembering during his deposition, and also mis-naming world Leaders. Stewart was the only person who, from what I saw, showed PROOF of Trump doing the same thing BIden is being criticized for.

He's not both siding, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the Media's coverage of Biden's Mental Competence.
 

GulAtiCa

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,615
I thought he did a great job. Jon Stewart wasn't both siding it. It's ok to be critical of Joe Biden. Heck, he gave Trump wave more shit.
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,589
Which is why I'm not sure where this both siding thing is coming from. Biden's Mental Competence was ALL OVER the news... and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY included clips of Trump also mis-speaking, also mis-remembering during his deposition, and also mis-naming world Leaders. Stewart was the only person who, from what I saw, showed PROOF of Trump doing the same thing BIden is being criticized for.

He's not both siding, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the Media's coverage of Biden's Mental Competence.
It's the liberal equivalent of the MAGA cult losing their shit whenever any criticism is levied Trump's way.
 

btags

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
Gaithersburg MD
I thought it was good? I can see why people wouldn't want him criticizing Biden, but it was fine. As he others have said, he just said both were old, then proceeded to show how Trump is worse.
 

DarkJ

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,169
If this is the case, then I wouldn't take much stock into anything he or anyone else is saying about the subject.

If he said this versus a different opponent it would be more sound advice. But there's potentially a future where voting and grinding away on issues might not exist soon. So I find it to be weak advice. The mere fact Trump already tried to overthrow the government, which was only stopped because Mike Pence said no and survived a public hanging execution, shows grinding away might not be our option in the future.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
77,023
Providence, RI
Yup, just watch the news this week for whatever new Biden news is popular to know what Jon will talk about next Monday.

And since normal news shows downplay and ignore Trump shit, Jon will downplay and ignore Trump shit, and make new and wonderful content for the alt-right to enjoy since "lol. Libs are mad" is what they live for.

This is such a dishonest take. Absolutely ridiculous.
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,009
It's the liberal equivalent of the MAGA cult losing their shit whenever any criticism is levied Trump's way.

No.

This would be a fair comparison if Biden didn't get shit done. He does and has. He's not stupid. He stumbles on words. Oh no!

People don't pay attention and will just continue to echo "incompetent" because of this framing. This leads to "both sides bad". This is lazy horse race baiting. It's dangerous.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
15,377
I might watch next week, see if this was a fluke. But all I saw this week is a hack pushing the both sides shit and leaning into the voter apathy that could get enough people to stay home and let trump win.
Are you sure you watched this week's? Because that take of yours isn't consistent with what I watched.
 
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CreepingFear

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,766
If he said this versus a different opponent it would be more sound advice. But there's potentially a future where voting and grinding away on issues might not exist soon. So I find it to be weak advice. The mere fact Trump already tried to overthrow the government, which was only stopped because Mike Pence said no and survived a public hanging execution, shows grinding away might not be our option in the future.
Yeah, how do you grind away if Trump wins and implements Project 2024? Good luck.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,765
People are shocked that a Daily News Comedy show is discussing... the news of the day.

Biden's Age was the big political topic last week that was all over the news. He didn't choose this topic out of spite, it's literally what EVERY News Org was talking about last week.

He's not going to talk about these other topics until they come up in the news cycle. This isn't a Youtube series where he picks and choose what to report, the subject goes with the News of the Day.
This is not a quibble with the actual segment, but just pointing out: it's his show. He can decide whatever the hell he wants to talk about.

I think something worth remembering is that, right or wrong, modesty or false modesty, Jon Stewart has never ever ever considered the Daily Show or himself on it as *important*. He no doubt believes in what he says and is plainly passionate about a few areas close to his heart, but generally regards the Daily Show as a comedy show first and anything else second.
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,589
No.

This would be a fair comparison if Biden didn't get shit done. He does and has. He's not stupid. He stumbles on words. Oh no!

People don't pay attention and will just continue to echo "incompetent" because of this framing. This leads to "both sides bad". This is lazy horse race baiting. It's dangerous.
So we're ignoring the part(s) where he clearly points out that Trump is much worse in spite of the valid criticisms of Biden? Because if we cherry-pick the video then yes I suppose you have a point.
 

Rygar1126

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,136
lol at throwing out the idea that Jon Stewart is alt-right.

Good to know that if you even criticize Biden a bit (again, while also explaining that Trump is much worse), you are a bad person. No room for nuance here.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,425
Sydney
clip seems fine, not sure how many people watched the Daily Show back when he hosted to react negatively like this
 

bdbdbd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,928
Um, first that top part was a joke and I don't know what the hell you're talking about wit hthe second part because it has nothing to do with his work with first responders which I already spoke about earlier.
Yes, I know it was a joke, but it was a joke clearly missing the point of Stewart's criticism. And the second part was directly addressing your assertion that he would need to stay on TV, for some reason. Like he hasn't actually been politically effective offscreen, as I pointed out to the contrary. Or, that he couldn't just pass the baton again to one of the other TDS correspondents, like they should have done in the first place after Trevor left.
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,009
So we're ignoring the part(s) where he clearly points out that Trump is much worse in spite of the valid criticisms of Biden? Because if we cherry-pick the video then yes I suppose you have a point.

No I'm not - I just think the age framing is tired and lazy. However many people do judge based on it (still, somehow).

We can focus on serious issues instead.
Age / competence was front and center in 2020 for Biden and it didn't matter then. It's been 4 years. He's not failed in the mental competency department and yet here we are still. Can we not focus on destructive statements or actions? The things that actually have consequence?

The only time it matters is with a situation like Diane Feinstein where it's _obvious_ they are not able to perform the job. Show me that with Trump and Biden and I'll start listening. Until then it's lazy punditry.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,939
And the second part was directly addressing your assertion that he would need to stay on TV, for some reason. Like he hasn't actually been politically effective offscreen, as I pointed out to the contrary. Or, that he couldn't just pass the baton again to one of the other TDS correspondents, like they should have done in the first place after Trevor left.

I was referring to him wanting us to continue fighting to get what is important to us after the election. He'd be a valuable voice for those fights on TDS. I wasn't trying to imply that he was useless otherwise.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,376
lol at throwing out the idea that Jon Stewart is alt-right.

Good to know that if you even criticize Biden a bit (again, while also explaining that Trump is much worse), you are a bad person. No room for nuance here.

I can't imagine what this thread would look like if he went in on Biden enabling, funding and whitewashing the genocide Gaza. You know he would love to have done that too because Jon has been critical of Israel and defending Palestinians for a long time. We saw a little of that advocacy last night but holy moly he could have gone ham. Oh and yes Trump is worse(have to say this now whenever critical of Biden.)
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,589
No I'm not - I just think the age framing is tired and lazy. However many people do judge based on it (still, somehow).
We can focus on serious issues instead.
Age / competence was front and center in 2020 for Biden and it didn't matter then. It's been 4 years.

The only time it matters is with a situation like Diane Feinstein where it's _obvious_ they are not able to perform the job.
You're exactly right, it has been four years. And at the time it didn't matter, but that was in 2020. People's mental acuity at such an advanced age can change massively in that time frame.

If Biden was the same as he was in 2020 this wouldn't be an issue, but he isn't. I don't know that digging our heads into the sand is the best way to deflect the fact that he's lost a step.
 

Titanpaul

Member
Jan 2, 2019
5,009
You're exactly right, it has been four years. And at the time it didn't matter, but that was in 2020. People's mental acuity at such an advanced age can change massively in that time frame.

If Biden was the same as he was in 2020 this wouldn't be an issue, but he isn't. I don't know that digging our heads into the sand is the best way to deflect the fact that he's lost a step.

It did matter in 2020. That was the only attack against Biden. It worked. It's all the media talked about. Nothings chenged. He won and he hasn't changed and he's done a lot of shit.

Show me a decline in mental acuity that has affected governance even a little bit and I'll pay attention.
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,589
It did matter in 2020. That was the only attack against Biden. It worked. It's all the media talked about. Nothings chenged. He won and he hasn't changed and he's done a lot of shit.

Show me a decline in mental acuity that has affected governance even a little bit and I'll pay attention.
Show me an American election that isn't massively affected by public appearance and performance and I'll stop trying to point this out as a legitimate issue.