Lara Croft's Characterization (Reboot)

[Deleted member 22585]

Nice read, well made OP! I find her development to be delivered in a clumsy way though, everything about her character and development had no impact on me at all. The ideas are good, the execution ridiculous. I find Lara just laughable, she's so badly written.

 

[Fredrik]

The beginning of the original reboot, being injured and her first kill, where she defended her self from being killed / possible sexual assault and her reaction to killing someone, was actually pretty decent but the problem is after that she went from young and innocent to a Rambo style killer, who suddenly knows how to mod weapons in a matter of moments, so her character just didn't work for me.

If they developed it more slowly over the course of the first game, with her having more situations where she is forced to kill as a last option to survive, then at the end she could have gone all Rambo. maybe it would have worked better but it seemed character development went out the window to make her a action hero instead.

The original Lara was more about exploration and Tomb Raiding, with some combat thrown in, these reboots take the action too far and it hurts Lara's character imo.

Click to shrink...

I think it was more about making an action game than an action hero. The game simply wouldn't have been as fun to play if they lingered too long in the building-the-character phase. Personally I had no real issues with that and I liked the skill improvements, however I understand the complaints from a story-focused perspective.

 

[tuxfool]

I think it was more about making an action game than an action hero. The game simply wouldn't have been as fun to play if they lingered too long in the building-the-character phase. Personally I had no real issues with that and I liked the skill improvements, however I understand the complaints from a story-focused perspective.

Click to shrink...

It would have been more easy had they kept the original TR remit of Tomb exploration with the occasional combat.

Instead they went the Uncharted route, and the serious nature of the story clashed, with the requirement to throw cannon fodder for the main character to murder mercilessly.

Interestingly Uncharted handled the origin stuff much better than TR, by not starting with it. In the flashbacks young Drake is almost always just exploring or running away.

 

[RoyalJello]

Excellent writeup OP!

(outdated view below - I haven't seen the last game on it)

As mentioned, her dialogue is uninspired. From actual accounts of people stuck in the wilderness they become accustomed to the lifestyle, and I think that her reaction to things should've become more transitional into her era character.
Seeing less overreaction would be refreshing, but what would really throw me off is seeing her character become more accepting of the death that's needed from her job . It would be the first time I'd ever seen a move to tongue in cheek writing after a drama ever.

I think MasterVampire summed it up really well on the first page. She is a cold blooded killer - and it feels like the writing department was at odds with the game designer, by patching the script on top of more bloodthirsty Uncharted gameplay.

My POV: I rarely - and I've maybe never used the word edgy to describe a game, but I think that's been the focus of the 'rebirth' of Tomb Raider - flipping expectation. So I think until gameplay/previous games and storytelling fit it doesn't seem to work. The game should decide if it's focused on the player (a more OK Lara, more puzzle oriented gameplay) or if it's focused on the character (Lara being sad about being in Uncharted).

Players are notoriously against seeing reaction-only characters like current Lara suddenly become ok or become proactive, but I think it's needed in order to make a narrative that's unique and create true character depth.

 

[Harlequin]

You know, since you brought it up and you're clearly an avid Classic Clara fan, what are your thoughts on their take on Lara's character throughout LAU? And while we're at it, let's talk AoD: ignoring the obvious awful game, what about the plot and characters? I'm interested in hearing your perspective on those.

Click to shrink...

LAU Lara's characterisation: I thought it was quite cheesy. I didn't like the whole parent backstory, obviously, and arguably, that was even worse in LAU than in the reboot (where her dad's research is at least only part of her motivation, not her sole purpose in life - though they got pretty close to that line in Rise at points). She often times felt more like a female James Bond to me than like Lara Croft, what with basically having a good friend everywhere she goes in the world, going to fancy cocktail parties, owning all those high-tech gadgets, etc. She also felt over the top (perhaps less so in Anniversary but certainly in Legend and Underworld) and her characterisation lacked depth and nuance. That being said, she was for the most part consistently written and felt like a proper, rounded character. Plus, her being cheesy and over-the-top fit well with the tone of the games so it wasn't as much of a problem. I think many of the reboot games' narrative problems stem from their writing just clashing with the serious, dark tone they're aiming for. (And that's not to say that it's bad for a Tomb Raider game to have a serious/dark/mature/gritty/whatever tone. It's just that, if you want to do that, you need to back it up with mature, serious writing and that's not really been happening IMO.) So yeah, I think LAU Lara is very different from the original and not realy what I think Lara should be but for the most part, she's a fun, solid character in her own right. (Especially in Legend which had a pretty solid story, despite me not liking all the parent drama. Things took a pretty abrupt turn for the worse in Underworld which had terrible writing.)

As for AoD Lara, I love her. That's how you write an emotionally troubled Lara. She wouldn't be constantly blurting out her fears and rambling on about her problems, she would bottle it up, try to push it aside and maybe get a bit irritated and snarky with the people around her as a result. I think the people who say that Core's Lara didn't have depth are simply unable to read subtext. Just because a character doesn't spell everything out for you or talk much, doesn't mean there aren't emotions, thoughts, desires, etc. beneath the surface. There was always a certain logical and emotional consistency to Core Lara's character where, even if she never really talked about herself or let people get too close, you still knew there was something there because all of the things that you did know about her just made so much sense together that it allowed you fill in the blanks. I've always seen Core Lara as more of an anti-hero. She may not be "evil" or completely immoral but almost everything she does is founded in selfishness and she's very much morally ambiguous. (Though I guess we do need to distinguish between TR1-3 and TR4-6 Lara here since there was a bit of a change in her backstory and maybe even a slight change in her characterisation between 3 and 4. For example, I'm not a fan of Core retconning Von Croy into Lara's bio.) Crystal, on the other hand, seem to have always seen her as more of a heroic figure and it shows in how they've portrayed her.

AoD's plot and side characters are brilliant, too. There are a few minor plot holes due to the game being rushed out the door but all in all, it's easily the best story any TR game has had to date and, at least to me, one of the best video game stories in general. It's downright criminal that it never got a sequel (and that its writer, Murti Schofield, hasn't found more success).

 

[Lukas Taves]

Thinking a bit harder on this, I think a lot of what makes "reboot Lara" less interesting as a character now is simply the circumstances they put her in. The THEME of the games has changed, and as a result they don't permit Lara to have a smidgen of fun or enjoyment in her profession. The excitement I, as a player, had in prior games as a globe-trotting adventurer testing myself against ancient puzzles and mythological or extinct creatures is entirely lost and replaced with a violent, grim, gritty, bleak approach.

The original games focus on Lara's triumph over obstacles, while the new games are defined by the tragedy and trauma she endures surviving obstacles. It's the equivalent of taking Superman - the heroic, noble, self-less hero who does good because he desires to do so - and replacing him with the dark and grim and miserable version that does it because he feels pressured to, that everyone fears and is skeptical of, and who is defined by moments of loss, anger, and brooding.

Just because one has "more character traits" doesn't make one a better character, in and of themselves. Fleshing out Lara is a fantastic idea, and I still support it. But we're at the point where it's not the CHARACTER that defines her but the ENVIRONMENT around her that defines her. The death of her friends, brutalization and constant physical torture, the shadow of her father's legacy, the constant self-loathing, her screw-ups and failures. Those are what leave their marks upon this interpretation of the character - physical and symbolical.

I don't need her in tiny shorts doing backflips while dual-wielding pistols to shoot at a rampaging T-Rex (though that's still awesome), but I would love to have her be pleasant to be around. After all, I spend all of my time with her in the game.

Click to shrink...

I was about to make a reply trying to say this, but you explained my point much better than I could ever do :P

 

[psychedelic]

As usual, every single anti-Reboot/new Lara person (except for one) never even attempts to post more than one sentence backing up their claim of why Crystal Dynamics "failed" with her. New Lara's hate in Era stays fascinating.

Click to shrink...

Eh, I didn't hate her, but not everyone has to agree with how you see her character development. Something tells me that if someone posts more than a sentence explaining why they don't like her you're going to have the urge to say it's just their opinion. I've played both games and personally, I'm really indifferent about her. I agree with many others that the writing isn't that great. Idk if I need to write another sentence to justify how I feel.

What intrigues me about the upcoming game however is that it looks even darker than the previous games and is being developed by another team, so I'll pick it up for sure.

 

[Fredrik]

What intrigues me about the upcoming game however is that it looks even darker than the previous games and is being developed by another team

Click to shrink...

It can go both ways though. The new team got me worried based on how they ridiculed the old Lara, and I don't expect Shadow to go even a tiny step toward the older games, this will likely be the tone of the remake trilogy cranked up to 11.
But I think the gameplay videos show a lot of strength and at this point I totally respect their vision for the game.
Personally I'm seriously hyped!

As a side note, I really like how the difficulty changes the level of hand-holding for the puzzles as well, that's just plain genious. On the highest difficulty it could be like playing the old games, with no colored ledges or anything like that, just pure exploration and trial and error.

 

[psychedelic]

It can go both ways though. The new team got me worried based on how they ridiculed the old Lara, and I don't expect Shadow to go even a tiny step toward the older games, this will likely be the tone of the remake trilogy cranked up to 11.
But I think the gameplay videos show a lot of strength and at this point I totally respect their vision for the game.
Personally I'm seriously hyped!

As a side note, I really like how the difficulty changes the level of hand-holding for the puzzles as well, that's just plain genious. On the highest difficulty it could be like playing the old games, with no colored ledges or anything like that, just pure exploration and trial and error.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, it certainly can go both ways, and it is wise to be cautiously optimistic, but I imagine I'm hyped for the same reasons as you. The puzzles and difficulty settings sound really promising. I also personally really like the jungle setting here much more than what they had going in Rise.

 

[thevid]

I can only speak about Tomb Raider 2013, but where the story and character really falls flat for me is that the game literally goes from Lara Croft breaking down after her first human kill, to remarking to Roth just how easy it was to kill a bunch of people...in the span of 5 minutes.

Breaking down: https://youtu.be/6CKfWVf2kUw?list=PLj_Goi54wf0cCn8F2kCv7LUgTpZHNiECO&t=346
How easy: https://youtu.be/6CKfWVf2kUw?list=PLj_Goi54wf0cCn8F2kCv7LUgTpZHNiECO&t=638

Same video, look at the time stamps. Less than 300 seconds, 5 minutes, between the two scenes. Did she completely forget how she nearly broke down 5 minutes ago? Then, about half way through the game she goes all Rambo and starts taunting enemies. "That's right! Run you bastards! I'm coming for you all!" So the story just didn't do anything for me. It felt rushed and conflicted about what kind of person they wanted Lara to be. It was less a story about Lara growing as a character, and more like flipping a switch between her "origin" story and then action hero Lara after an hour to get on with the gameplay of mass killing enemies.

 

[brokenswiftie]

Such a great write up OP loved it!!
but one thing I think u missed is also how the enemies react to Lara's presence, at the beginning of the game the mobs just dismiss her as a nobody, but by the end they are scared of her and doubt seeps in their minds whether they can survive her onslaught.
The same thing in Rise, the enemies were like she survived the island but she would have no chance with trained soldiers, but closer to end you can see them commenting how she cleaned the previous areas and they should not dismiss her.
I loved this aspect in the games where even the normal enemies are acknowledging her growth

 

[noyram23]

She has nice design but she was badly written, shitty even. Thankfully I like the gameplay loop

 

[PalaceMidas]

As for AoD Lara, I love her. That's how you write an emotionally troubled Lara. She wouldn't be constantly blurting out her fears and rambling on about her problems, she would bottle it up, try to push it aside and maybe get a bit irritated and snarky with the people around her as a result. I think the people who say that Core's Lara didn't have depth are simply unable to read subtext. Just because a character doesn't spell everything out for you or talk much, doesn't mean there aren't emotions, thoughts, desires, etc. beneath the surface. There was always a certain logical and emotional consistency to Core Lara's character where, even if she never really talked about herself or let people get too close, you still knew there was something there because all of the things that you did know about her just made so much sense together that it allowed you fill in the blanks. I've always seen Core Lara as more of an anti-hero. She may not be "evil" or completely immoral but almost everything she does is founded in selfishness and she's very much morally ambiguous. (Though I guess we do need to distinguish between TR1-3 and TR4-6 Lara here since there was a bit of a change in her backstory and maybe even a slight change in her characterisation between 3 and 4. For example, I'm not a fan of Core retconning Von Croy into Lara's bio.) Crystal, on the other hand, seem to have always seen her as more of a heroic figure and it shows in how they've portrayed her.

AoD's plot and side characters are brilliant, too. There are a few minor plot holes due to the game being rushed out the door but all in all, it's easily the best story any TR game has had to date and, at least to me, one of the best video game stories in general. It's downright criminal that it never got a sequel (and that its writer, Murti Schofield, hasn't found more success).

Click to shrink...

This post is fantastic.

I too, wasn't overly impressed at CORE changing Lara's biography, however minor, but it's a fascinating example of how they were trying to move Lara in a more nuanced direction, if a bit primitive in terms of how they were going to handle it. Outside of something like Metal Gear Solid, the rise of the character driven action adventure video game was in its early stages. As I recall, Von Croy was crowbarred in for the sake of a mentor role that really wasn't needed, but as I remember, nearly everything else was the same, wasn't it?

There was definitely a notable change between 1-3 and what came after. How much was CORE genuinely trying to move in a more complex direction and how much was a reaction to the TR3 ending where she murdered, quite brutally, a friendly pilot, I don't know. But I find The Last Revelation and Angel of Darkness fascinating in their depiction of her. Jean Yves was the first time we saw Lara have a true friend and confidante. She also admits she's 'tired' which is the first time Lara admitted to a normal human emotion. Almost like she was completely over the whole ordeal which dovetailed nicely into AOD where Lara was over it and fell into adventure again by accident.

What didn't dovetail nicely was her hating Von Croy as if he callously left her to die but I digress. I almost wish CORE had went where they once considered, with the idea that Lara become a recluse (alcoholic?) after TLR and that's how we found her at the beginning of AOD. Cliché? Perhaps. But it would've been a fascinating layer to a character that people now unfairly label paper-thin. She may not have daddy issues or talk about her problems, but there was a great deal more to her than many would have you think.

As an aside, I found the way Crystal spoke about the reboot deeply problematic at the time, and still do. They made comments about how the gamer should want to protect her and be her "helper", and root for her in a way that you wouldn't necessarily feel about a male character. Sexist thinking wrapped up in a so-called empowering bow.

 

[Fredrik]

Early review from de.ign.com - 8.9

"Shadow of the Tomb Raider outperforms its predecessor in every respect and adds another dimension: more content, more tombs, more puzzles, more story and fewer shooting."

Can't wait! =)

 

[KORNdog]

I think I would have warmed to the new lara if they had found a voice actress who was actually good.

I feel like as a character growth arch is been pretty poor though. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between who this Lara is and has grown into and what the original Lara was. There's no sense of confidence or fun. You can't even appreciate her being an unapologetic badass because the situations she's thrown into feels almost accidental and she's just scrapping by.

 

[Fredrik]

I think I would have warmed to the new lara if they had found a voice actress who was actually good.

I feel like as a character growth arch is been pretty poor though. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between who this Lara is and has grown into and what the original Lara was. There's no sense of confidence or fun. You can't even appreciate her being an unapologetic badass because the situations she's thrown into feels almost accidental and she's just scrapping by.

Click to shrink...

It's a deliberate change and I think Luddington is perfect for the type of character Lara is in these games, she's more vulnerable and scared in these games and it shows through her voice I think. In the former games Lara was boasting with self-esteem and had a cocky attitude, if they ever return to that Lara then I think they need to find someone with a different voice.

 

[Syril]

The original games focus on Lara's triumph over obstacles, while the new games are defined by the tragedy and trauma she endures surviving obstacles. It's the equivalent of taking Superman - the heroic, noble, self-less hero who does good because he desires to do so - and replacing him with the dark and grim and miserable version that does it because he feels pressured to, that everyone fears and is skeptical of, and who is defined by moments of loss, anger, and brooding.

Just because one has "more character traits" doesn't make one a better character, in and of themselves. Fleshing out Lara is a fantastic idea, and I still support it. But we're at the point where it's not the CHARACTER that defines her but the ENVIRONMENT around her that defines her. The death of her friends, brutalization and constant physical torture, the shadow of her father's legacy, the constant self-loathing, her screw-ups and failures. Those are what leave their marks upon this interpretation of the character - physical and symbolical.

Click to shrink...

I never liked the whole concept of a character becoming the hero by enduring abuse and trauma. Does she actually have any agency in the story, or is she just reacting to things that happen to her?

 

[Calverz]

Im waiting for the next reboot now. This trilogy has had its moments, but i now find her really really irritating. And weak. Which in todays climate of hyper sensitivity on that issues makes it all the more galling to me.

 

[Metroidvania]

Hmm...still ruminating on some finer details of points I want to make, (Personally, I didn't mind TR2013 outside of the poor side characters, but Rise's take on Lara's daddy issues suddenly re-emerging in full force leaves a lot to be desired, but....

This post is incredibly passive aggressive, and quite frankly does not provide any valid counter arguments for claims such as "She is so one dimensional and terribly realised I cant even understand how you can make such an in depth analysis of her." Funny how most of you keep on talking about reboots and new Lara being "awful" but coincidentally all of you guys' posts are drive-by one-sentences lmfaaaaao.

Click to shrink...

As usual, every single anti-Reboot/new Lara person (except for one) never even attempts to post more than one sentence backing up their claim of why Crystal Dynamics "failed" with her. New Lara's hate in Era stays fascinating.

Click to shrink...

I get that you're a fan, and the OP is well-done, but you're doing the exact same thing you've accused the 'haters' of doing - there have been cogent/salient disagreements already.

 

[AdaWong]

I get that you're a fan, and the OP is well-done, but you're doing the exact same thing you've accused the 'haters' of doing - there have been cogent/salient disagreements already.

Click to shrink...

First, thank you. Second, am I really? I have responded to the people that have disagreed and criticized legitimately with my counterarguments. If you claim something, back it up. I claimed something, and I backed it up with a long ass OP. For someone to just drive-by and drop one sentence saying "no, she sucks lol." is disrespectful to the nature of the thread and to their writers and other debaters involved. Sure, we all have opinions, and I'm not forcing mine on anyone, but in respect to the type of thread (an in-depth analysis) I expect that if you disagree, at least back it up with some substance and evidence. Otherwise, if you don't have the time or don't feel like it, then just don't respond.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

...(Though I guess we do need to distinguish between TR1-3 and TR4-6 Lara here since there was a bit of a change in her backstory and maybe even a slight change in her characterisation between 3 and 4. For example, I'm not a fan of Core retconning Von Croy into Lara's bio.) Crystal, on the other hand, seem to have always seen her as more of a heroic figure and it shows in how they've portrayed her...

Click to shrink...

...There was definitely a notable change between 1-3 and what came after. How much was CORE genuinely trying to move in a more complex direction and how much was a reaction to the TR3 ending where she murdered, quite brutally, a friendly pilot, I don't know...

Click to shrink...

Some folks have noted some interesting points of contrast between the TR1 character and subsequent incarnations from Core Design:

http://otakusphere.com/2011/01/09/playing-tomb-raider-from-the-beginning-madness/
"...it's important to note that Lara as she appears in classic Tomb Raider is essentially a different character from the incarnation in the later games and the movies. Original Lara was a woman of few words, classy as she was concise, and only carried weapons because large jungle cats tended to try to kill her if she wasn't careful. She was primarily an [adventurer] and a writer with a passion for exploring, and if she was also an action hero, she performed that role as a means to an end. Basically, original Lara was far more likeable and alluring because you were given very little information about her, she handled herself very capably, and the game really wasn't trying to hit you over the head with how awesome she was.

After the huge success of the first TR, from the sequel onwards Lara evolved into one of those obnoxiously self-aware movie badasses, who possesses a huge wardrobe of sexy adventuring gear and doesn't need much provocation to shoot someone in the head. I wouldn't dismiss the later games and movies, since there's a lot more to TR than just Lara, but I think you have to have a sense of this evolution of her portrayal in order to understand my tremendous affection for the original character of Lara– When I say Lara, unless you played this game when it came out, chances are you are not associating the same character with the name…"

http://otakusphere.com/2011/12/15/annotated-playthrough-tomb-raider-ii/
"...I find Lara's characterization less likable in TR2. Part of that is due to preferring her first voice actress over Judith Gibbons (who I've no doubt is a perfectly nice woman in reality, but sounds incredibly frigid as Lara), part of it is her dialogue. In TR1, despite being tough as nails, she was unfailingly polite, a callback to her mannered upbringing. Remember her apologizing to Larson for interrupting him while he threatens to shove the scion somewhere unpleasant? In TR2 they seemed to have forgotten that trait, making her too much of a seemingly emotionless Larabot. Don't get me wrong, I don't like hyper-emotional Lara (cough, Legend, cough) and consider the character very stoic in general, but I think the balance was perfect in TR1 and then TR2 knocked it off-kilter..."

http://otakusphere.com/2011/12/17/tomb-raider-ii-level-1-the-great-wall/
"...Finally, I mentioned before that this version of Lara [in TR2] seems really cold to me, and this scene is part of the reason why. Sure, "Pardon me, if that was just your way of trying the doors for me," is the kind of cheeky, sarcastic thing that TR1 Lara would have said, but I think she would have sounded more chipper about it; this Lara sounds like she's already planning to kill him and sell his organs on the black market. Perhaps it's a subtle thing, but this Lara strikes me as a completely amoral sociopath with only the thinnest veneer of humanity, and it's a little disturbing; I like my Lara only 40 percent sociopath, thank you...

...In TR1, the opening cutscene both introduced Lara and hinted at her motivation for going after the Atalantean Scion. In TR2, Lara just shows up after the Dagger of Xian in lieu of nothing. Not that there's anything wrong with that; after all, I do think a large part of Lara's motivation for doing what she does is Sir Edmund Hillary's rationale for climbing Everest: 'Because it is there.' It's the allure of challenge, pure and simple. But nevertheless, the lack of any clear motivation on her part contributes to the lack of feeling like we're at the beginning of a narrative. Has she been planning to add the dagger to her collection for years? Or did she spontaneously decide that this would be a fun way to kill a weekend? We'll never know..."

Click to shrink...

Karen goes into more specific detail here.

Also, while I'm sure Harlequin and PalaceMidas are aware of the following, in this context it may be worth adding (for folks who may not be aware) some idea of what was going on behind the scenes, after the success of TR1:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/it-felt-like-robbery-tomb-raider-and-the-fall-of-core-design/
...Gard had his own visions for how Tomb Raider would be marketed. His idea for Lara, which he wanted to get across in movie-style posters and slick marketing material, was more sophisticated. "He presented these ideas to Eidos, and the Eidos marketing guys basically went, 'What? Go away, little man,'" says Rummery. "'We're not interested. What are you doing here? This is our job.' And he was so pissed off about that. He couldn't let that go." [...]

Tomb Raider's problems didn't end there. "By [the end of] Tomb Raider II we basically thought that's it. Finished," says Rummery. "We were a bit burned out." They felt that they'd done all they could with the existing engine, and their plan was to have Tomb Raider take a few years off from the spotlight while they worked on a PlayStation 2 sequel. The gods that be at Eidos decreed that there would be another Tomb Raider on the PS1, however, and it'd be out that year—made by another team at Core.

Blindsided, the primary team members of Tomb Raider II lost their passion for the series...

Click to shrink...

 

[Erebus]

As usual, every single anti-Reboot/new Lara person (except for one) never even attempts to post more than one sentence backing up their claim of why Crystal Dynamics "failed" with her. New Lara's hate in Era stays fascinating.

Click to shrink...

Hey, maybe that one person got us covered and there's no need to.

 

[AdaWong]

Hey, maybe that one person got us covered and there's no need to.

Click to shrink...

Then hey, quote that person and co-sign that post, so I can include you when I respond the original poster. The other member with the Leon avi did it and I respected their claims and didn't complain about it despite them heavily disagreeing.

 

[Zornack]

She's just boring. It doesn't help that the writing of the supporting characters and the overall stories themselves are bland. I'm also put off by it taking three games for her to become "The Tomb Raider."

 

[Marcus Brutalius]

Lara is written so poorly that it makes TR look like a DVD movie release compared to the summer blockbuster movie that is UC4. She isMary Sue and a even more brutal killer than Nathan Drake in one person.
The whole writing feels mid-2000s-gamey.

 

[AdaWong]

I'm about to snap. Let me include a huge ass disclaimer at the OP that drive-by posts are not allowed and if you are going to criticize back it up with examples, but then again I'm not sure that will work since even the first fucking paragraph mentions that this is not a comparison thread yet people still do it anyways. lmfaaaaaaaaao

 

[unknownspectator]

I feel like as a character growth arch is been pretty poor though. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between who this Lara is and has grown into and what the original Lara was. There's no sense of confidence or fun. You can't even appreciate her being an unapologetic badass because the situations she's thrown into feels almost accidental and she's just scrapping by.

Click to shrink...

I believe part of the problem was the whole 3 game origin story arc. I believe the first game should have been THE origin story not part 1 of three.

 

[leng jai]

I hope they don't make the survival/hunting aspect in the first 15 minutes seem super important again and then completely drop it for the rest of the game.

 

[PalaceMidas]

Some folks have noted some interesting points of contrast between the TR1 character and subsequent incarnations from Core Design:


Karen goes into more specific detail here.

Also, while I'm sure Harlequin and PalaceMidas are aware of the following, in this context it may be worth adding (for folks who may not be aware) some idea of what was going on behind the scenes, after the success of TR1:

Click to shrink...

These are fantastic archival thoughts.

There was something altogether more quaint about TR1 Lara. I loved the idea that Lara was a writer by trade, to fund her adventures since she was cut off by her parents. It was a charming touch that, to the best of my knowledge, was never mentioned again.

I'll also agree on the voice acting. By the time TR2 roller around, Lara sounded noticeably older, colder and sharp. There was fun youth quality to TR1 Lara. I think the 4-AOD VA (Jonell?) had the best qualities of the two merged together, despite some clunky deliveries from time to time.

 

[KORNdog]

I believe part of the problem was the whole 3 game origin story arc. I believe the first game should have been THE origin story not part 1 of three.

Click to shrink...

This would have probably been for the best tbh. I don't think it helped that things were mechanically very similar between reboot and rise or that there was such a strong focus on trinity that annoyingly has crossed multiple entries. Maybe if the reboot was the origin. And rise was her 10 years later, a little bit older and A little bit wiser. with a thirst for adventure and with the experiences under her belt to be good at it, it would have resulted in a better Lara and a better game. Instead it felt like a complete retread both character growth wise and gameplay wise.

I want Lara to essentually be a British Chloe Fraser personality wise at this point in her origin arch. A scrappy, confident and cocky badass who just loves hunting for treasure. There no sense of that though. Modern Lara is a woman who doesn't enjoy what she does. She's just doing it out of necessity and it's the biggest mistep for the character imo. If she's not having fun in her adventures, it kills the appeal of watching her involvement in them.

 

[Veelk]

I'm about to snap. Let me include a huge ass disclaimer at the OP that drive-by posts are not allowed and if you are going to criticize back it up with examples, but then again I'm not sure that will work since even the first fucking paragraph mentions that this is not a comparison thread yet people still do it anyways. lmfaaaaaaaaao

Click to shrink...

As someone who has written their fair share of lengthy posts, trust me, atleast 70% are just gonna reply with a oneliner of some kind or another without adding anything substantial or addressing what you wrote.

It's just how it goes with these things. And yes, it's very frustrating.

 

[Mechaplum]

OP I believe the launch trailers do reveal a bit of what their creators may have in the direction of the games, even if it's from a marketing stand point.

Shadow of the Tomb Raider


Lost Legacy


You can almost see what was the emphasis in each title within the first 30 seconds. This is not a criticism, I have fully accepted that the reboot series is an entirely new direction but it does show what it could have been.

Here's to a good launch for Shadow, I know some of my friends just wants to murder everything with Lara.

 

[Veelk]

Alright, I read most of the OP. The main part I skipped is the Shadow of the Tomb Raider stuff because 1. it's not really fair to analyze what hasn't come out yet and 2. I try to avoid spoilers.

Right, this analysis...it's very meticulously crafted and astute. I especially like the coloring to help highlight how your designating something to specific games.

The only problem is that the story of the games is not particularly deep, so a lot of this was just summarizing things that happened in the literal plot of the two games that themselves spell out the themes or character development of Lara that your trying to focus in on. It creates a very "Breaking news: Water is wet" sort of reaction, though I don't think that's on you.

I would say this is the writers fault. Sometimes, it's said that there are no bad stories, just badly told stories, and this might be a case of that. Lara's characterization and progession from game to game is notably different, yes, but it's told in such a straightforward, bland, and...well, cliche way that it barely feels like characterization so much as going through a checklist for a action-survivor genre story. Pointing out that Lara is more hardcore in the second game than she was in the first is pointing out something really, really obvious to me, and what I think is the source of boredom for a lot of people. I know you don't invite comparisons to Uncharted, but this is one thing I think they often succeed at: The plot template of the Uncharted games isn't particularly innovative, and the character archtypes that they use can also be considered typical, but through fluid writing and knowing the genre well enough to subvert things enough to keep them interesting. It just doens't happen as much with Tomb Raider. Everything is straightforward.

And I think I know why it gives off that feeling. Lets say that I agree that Lara is actually pretty well characterized, atleast given for what they're going for this story: She is coming of age, is having her ideals broken down and transformed, resolving her daddy issues, etc. All cool. But one major hallmark of a good story is that they don't really have just one good character, but atleast a few, so that the good characterization of A has a way of bouncing off in interesting ways to the characterization of B. Tomb Raider just doesn't have much of that, because while Lara might have had effort put in, the other characters not nearly as much. It's why I think people struggle to remember what happens in the games. What is Roth beyond a straightforward and typical mentor/authority figure for Lara? What is Jonah except her kinda Watson just so she has someone to talk to for the audiences benefit? I remember that Rhianna Pratchett wanted to make Sam and Lara a potentially lesbian couple, but literally all that's there is that Lara cares about Sam because she's her friend. But like...none of that is shown in a raw, personal way, partly because she's kidnapped most of hte time, I guess, but also because I can't think of any distinct characterization Sam had. Same thing with villains and trinity and the rest. An interesting character in a dull world really hampers down the storytelling potential.

I genuinely hope they solve the uninteresting side character/villain problems with Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I feel like the new Tomb Raider series always had the potential to tell truly great stories and be regarded with the same air as Uncharted, but they never quite got there and instead just made a really fun game. Which is great an all, but it's close to true greatness and I want to see it make it. z

 

[Deleted member 43077]

fantastic job OP.

excited to see what happens at the end of the game and anything after

 

[Valdega]

You can almost see what was the emphasis in each title within the first 30 seconds. This is not a criticism, I have fully accepted that the reboot series is an entirely new direction but it does show what it could have been.

Here's to a good launch for Shadow, I know some of my friends just wants to murder everything with Lara.

Click to shrink...

Have you not seen any other trailers or read any other previews for SoTR? There's apparently a much greater emphasis on platforming, exploration and puzzle-solving than in the last two games. Likely more than Uncharted.

 

[Mister X]

Me thinks you're over analyzing things.
Tomb raider has no themes it's an uncharted copy.

Click to shrink...

And Uncharted was a Tomb raider copy.

Also agree with OP, good summary.

 

[Mechaplum]

Have you not seen any other trailers or read any other previews for SoTR? There's apparently a much greater emphasis on platforming, exploration and puzzle-solving than in the last two games. Likely more than Uncharted.

Click to shrink...

I have no doubt that you may be right, it's just what the launch trailers are selling. I mean the Shadow trailer repeated the death quote twice, and I still don't understand it.

 

[AdaWong]

Alright, I read most of the OP. The main part I skipped is the Shadow of the Tomb Raider stuff because 1. it's not really fair to analyze what hasn't come out yet and 2. I try to avoid spoilers.

Right, this analysis...it's very meticulously crafted and astute. I especially like the coloring to help highlight how your designating something to specific games.

The only problem is that the story of the games is not particularly deep, so a lot of this was just summarizing things that happened in the literal plot of the two games that themselves spell out the themes or character development of Lara that your trying to focus in on. It creates a very "Breaking news: Water is wet" sort of reaction, though I don't think that's on you.

I would say this is the writers fault. Sometimes, it's said that there are no bad stories, just badly told stories, and this might be a case of that. Lara's characterization and progession from game to game is notably different, yes, but it's told in such a straightforward, bland, and...well, cliche way that it barely feels like characterization so much as going through a checklist for a action-survivor genre story. Pointing out that Lara is more hardcore in the second game than she was in the first is pointing out something really, really obvious to me, and what I think is the source of boredom for a lot of people. I know you don't invite comparisons to Uncharted, but this is one thing I think they often succeed at: The plot template of the Uncharted games isn't particularly innovative, and the character archtypes that they use can also be considered typical, but through fluid writing and knowing the genre well enough to subvert things enough to keep them interesting. It just doens't happen as much with Tomb Raider. Everything is straightforward.

And I think I know why it gives off that feeling. Lets say that I agree that Lara is actually pretty well characterized, atleast given for what they're going for this story: She is coming of age, is having her ideals broken down and transformed, resolving her daddy issues, etc. All cool. But one major hallmark of a good story is that they don't really have just one good character, but atleast a few, so that the good characterization of A has a way of bouncing off in interesting ways to the characterization of B. Tomb Raider just doesn't have much of that, because while Lara might have had effort put in, the other characters not nearly as much. It's why I think people struggle to remember what happens in the games. What is Roth beyond a straightforward and typical mentor/authority figure for Lara? What is Jonah except her kinda Watson just so she has someone to talk to for the audiences benefit? I remember that Rhianna Pratchett wanted to make Sam and Lara a potentially lesbian couple, but literally all that's there is that Lara cares about Sam because she's her friend. But like...none of that is shown in a raw, personal way, partly because she's kidnapped most of hte time, I guess, but also because I can't think of any distinct characterization Sam had. Same thing with villains and trinity and the rest. An interesting character in a dull world really hampers down the storytelling potential.

I genuinely hope they solve the uninteresting side character/villain problems with Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I feel like the new Tomb Raider series always had the potential to tell truly great stories and be regarded with the same air as Uncharted, but they never quite got there and instead just made a really fun game. Which is great an all, but it's close to true greatness and I want to see it make it. z

Click to shrink...

I just wanna say thank you! This was actually a really good response to read. I agree that the weak supporting cast might more often than not hurt Lara's journey, but imo it is somewhat compensated in some scenes through Lara's actions.

fantastic job OP.

excited to see what happens at the end of the game and anything after

Click to shrink...

Thank you so much! :) Me too, really pumped to see the finale.

 

[TheBeardedOne]

I really like this Lara and the games. I did not like the original Tomb Raider games, or anything before the Reboot.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

She is so one dimensional and terribly realised I cant even understand how you can make such an in depth analysis of her.

Click to shrink...

Probably because you can analyse even one dimension and/or she's not that on dimensional as people like to think. However, O wouldn't call her a very complex character either.

I really like the reboot besides it short comings and I like that they fleshed her out more, although it still could have been better. But with character studies like TLoU, we are accustomed to, it is really hard to compete.

In regards of this OP, it is one of the best and most thoughtful ones here. Well written analysis which I really enjoyed reading. I only skipped the Shadow part because I don't want to know anything about the new game and want to go in completey blind. I stopped watching trailers and stuff for movies as well, and stopped watching screenshots. Most of time I only watched one trailer, which is normally enough to sell me a game or not. Totally different experience. A better one.

I'm excited of how Eidos handles the character, although I don't have towering expectations, after all I don't play these games for the character presentation. I'm glad that they casted the same voice actress again (in German), because I wouldn't have taken it for granted since in 2013 it was a different one than in Rise, the latter being way better.

 

[Veelk]

I just wanna say thank you! This was actually a really good response to read. I agree that the weak supporting cast might more often than not hurt Lara's journey, but imo it is somewhat compensated in some scenes through Lara's actions.

Click to shrink...

I think that's why I've always had an intense interest in Tomb Raider's story even I really don't think it's any good. The visual design of Lara is incredibly solid, the premise of going into hidden ruins and finding lost magic treasure in lost magic lands is a solid premise, the gameplay that accompanies the adventure is solid, and the premise of Lara coming into her own as a hero is solid.

The writing just needs to catch up to it. Make interesting side characters for Lara's pretty okay character to bounce off of, and that alone could elevate it to something better.

Also, can they put a greater emphasis on non-human enemies? I think the gameplay would be way better if not all our enemies were just soldiers. It's one thing I was disappointed by in the first game. They teased japanese mythology and I thought Oni were fucking things up, but it turned out to just be zombie soldiers, who fight like regular soldiers except with melee weapons/arrows.