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Deleted member 3812

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Oct 25, 2017
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ScreenRant's assessment of The Snyder Cut of the Justice League is that the movie "Proves WB Killed Their Best Chance to Compete With Marvel"

Is this assessment accurate or completely wrong?:

The Snyder Cut Proves WB Ruined Their Best Chance to Compete With Marvel (screenrant.com)

Zack Snyder's Justice League proves Warner Bros. had a big opportunity to compete with Marvel, but impatience and panicked course corrections ruined that chance. Ever since Zack Snyder's departure from Justice League, Warner Bros. has been seeking cinematic plans for its DC characters. The strong reception of Zack Snyder's Justice League offers a rare second chance to seize that opportunity, but WB doesn't plan to take it.

In the years since the release of Joss Whedon's cut of Justice League in 2017, demands for the release of the Snyder Cut only grew, despite claims it didn't exist or wouldn't be any better. Now that it's finally here, it's clear the Snyder Cut isn't only real, but it's exactly the movie DC needed in 2017, and sticking to this plan would have saved Warner Bros. years of trouble trying to get the DC cinematic universe back on track.
 

Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,310
Seattle, WA
Had Snyder stuck with the project, WB just would've edited it down to a reasonable runtime for theaters - and it would've been BvS all over again.

WB needed somebody to sit them down in 2013, and tell them point-blank that the only way to dethrone Avengers would be actually establishing individual characters to ramp up hype for a teamup film.
 

IDontBeatGames

ThreadMarksman
Member
Oct 29, 2017
16,611
New York
It's screenrant.......
Was gonna post this but since you said it
source.gif
 

gdt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,536
Oh yeah sure if only they stuck with snyders vision

was turning out great
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 10, 2020
10,441
The Snyder cut worked in a large part due to its 4 hour runtime.

Having to introduce Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman and Steppenwolf in any meaningful way in 2 and half hours is impossible.

The Snyder version we got in theaters wouldnt of been the Snyder cut we just got to see.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,409
They wanted too much too quick, going right for the Justice league two movies in. Then they chickened out and cut it down into a milquetoast movie. So yeah, they kind of lacked the commitment. (which is admittedly easy to say when it isn't my money/job on the line)
 

elLOaSTy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
If they put out a 4 hour movie it would have still gotten terrible reviews, the positive reviews this gets is only in context of the original.

I also don't believe a 2.5 hour version of this exists that makes you care enough about anything that happens.
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,879
I like the DC approach where they are giving us different super hero films that are of their own unique style within the frame of that film. If you compare the Marvel movies, they all pretty much look/feel the same.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,687
They killed their chance when they brought in Zack Snyder to architect a series, gave him carte blanche to do what he wanted, then couldn't stomach where that direction was taking them. Then when that attempt at course correction failed they threw up their hands, said fuck it, and just decided to go back to doing whatever the fuck.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
The Snyder cut is fun because it's so insane and sprawling, crammed with way too may ideas. They never would have released it in the format anyway.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,754
Brazil
The leaked plans for the snyderverse includes one superman fight per movie (in a universe that already has TWO scenes where superman fights other heroes) and the snyder cut teases Amber Heard and Jaret Leto having major roles
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,700
Maybe Phase 1/Phase 2 Marvel. Otherwise it would've been more strings of 20-70% RT flicks lol.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,133
Nah. Beyond this being a screen rant opinion piece, the movie was too long and all these characters they introduced (cyborg, Gordon, more Irons and Affleck interaction) I just wanted a solid single solo film for each before getting to this over wrought 4 hour slog. And by then it wouldn't have needed to be 4 hours to make up for the lack of planning on DCs part. It could've been an actually solid and enjoyable 2 hours.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
I haven't watched it yet but the released snyder film wouldn't have been this ... because it wouldnt have been anywhere near 4 hours.

I highly doubt it makes much of a splash.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,738
I mean honestly, Snyder Justice League probably could have been cut down pretty easily to a WB appropriate run time.

But they hired someone completely not right for the job and Whedon just put out a shitty product.

But I'm not sure that a Snyderverse could have competed with Marvel regardless. By 2017 it was to late
 

Muitnorts

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,150
It's nice for Snyder and his fans that this cut exists, but in a world without the theatrical cut as a comparison I'm convinced it would have been received poorly. Especially as a theatre release.

WB and Snyder made a Batman and Superman film that reviewed terribly and has historically poor legs, suggesting word of mouth was bad from the public. They've since made a film like Aquaman gross over a billion dollars. The 'Snyderverse' was never their answer to Marvel and it wouldn't have changed the mind of a moviegoing public that shunned the previous film.

A sequel to Justice League would have presumably been set in that dark desert future with evil Superman and would have been out in time to share the stage with Infinity War. It was never going to compete and WB rightly realised that.
They just forced a shitty edit out for bonuses, making things even worse in the process.

Their current plan of making films that their filmmakers want to make whether it's a cohesive universe or not is probably their best bet. They can have their Flash movie with tons of references and existing characters but still have a dark and serious Batman movie. Or Joker.
They can't beat the MCU at its own game it's far too late for that.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,154
Having seen it now, I think you could comfortably have a release with 90-95% of the good stuff and the runtime would be about 2:45 - 3:00. Shuffle the extended dream at the end to post credits (and trim it, it's bad), reduce the length of some of the action scenes, trim a lot of lingering shots and that alone gets you a lot more time back.

Getting it down to 2 hours flat like the 2017 release would not be possible without major cuts, but I don't think 2:45 is unbearable for audiences in big tentpole movies.
 
Nov 16, 2017
1,740
Ah yes, if only they had stuck with the visionary behind the first big screen team up of icons Batman and Superman. The guaranteed box office success that crashed and burned so hard they started scuttling Justice League projects while they were being filmed.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,895
Uh they are not competing with Marvel. They are competing with Disney.

Good luck with that...
 
Feb 11, 2020
84
They wanted too much too quick, going right for the Justice league two movies in. Then they chickened out and cut it down into a milquetoast movie. So yeah, they kind of lacked the commitment. (which is admittedly easy to say when it isn't my money/job on the line)
this is it. they wanted their movies to do mcu numbers but didn't put in the work to get the world invested. the infinity saga was a culmination of more than a decade of work. they weren't going to get there on their third movie.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,302
I'm a little disappointed we won't get his full vision, but his roadmap would have made it carry hard for WB to do anything else until the trilogy finishes.
 

vhoanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,156
Vietnam
Compete about what exactly?
There is always a litmited audience for Snyder style. WW and Aquaman brought more profits for WB than all Snyder's films put together.
 

hydruxo

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,473
I think they did the right thing by moving on from Snyder but still giving him the chance to put out the full four cut that would never see the light of day in theaters even under normal circumstances. Even if Snyder had stuck around to finish the final theatrical cut, it would've needed to be cut down to at least three hours, and I still don't think even a Snyder cut of JL at sub three hours would be substantially better than what we got from Whedon. I hated the original movie and enjoyed the Snyder Cut for what it is, but it's still not particularly great. BvS + rushing into JL before sufficient build up like the MCU did was what really doomed Snyder's future with DC. I'm glad the Snyder Cut exists but it was time to move on.
 

Book One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
As much as I liked ZSJL, the last 20 minutes were a reminder of the stuff I'm happy to move on from
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,868
On one hand, I loved the trilogy that Snyder did, but I don't think it was as popular as it could've been.

On the other hand, WB has been entirely way too reactionary the entire time adjusting course after nearly every film. They probably hurt their brand more releasing that Whedon garbage than the Snyder cut. You have to wonder what's going on there.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,827
I very much liked Synder's Justice League cut... but that wasn't the assignment. He was supposed to craft a story that could air in the theatres, and he couldn't produce.

You could say that DC rushed the 'team up' movie and you'd be right, but that doesn't necessarily mean they fucked up Justice League. We don't know what a 2-2.5 hour ZSJL cut would look like.
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,826
This article is making a lot of questionable assumptions about the reception and reach of the Snyder Cut of Justice League. Like, Snyder's Cut reception was not that strong but even if it were there's no reason to assume that this would translate into financial success at the box office if a different version of it released in 2017. We do not know what a theatrical version of the Snyder Cut would look like.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,002
The notion that the Snyder Cut was anything other than a workprint rough cut that Snyder would have whittled down into a normal theatrical length is ridiculous. WB would not have been willing to release and theaters would not have been willing to run what was seen on HBO Max this past week. It would have been about 2 1/2 hours at most, it just wouldn't have had Whedon's attempts to salvage the characters in it, which mostly don't work because they're poorly executed and clash absurdly with Snyder's tone, not because they're bad ideas for the characters. The Snyder Cut makes the thinking of the studio and Whedon pretty clear in terms of why the changes and edits were made, but they were trying to make it into something it was never intended to be, and it was never going to work unless they just scrapped the whole thing and shot a different movie...which would then clash with the events and tone established by MoS and BvS anyway.

And then on top of that the idea that any of this competes with Marvel in any way? Complete nonsense. Snyder had already blown that with BvS when the first live action team up/showdown between Batman and Superman couldn't even crack the $900 million mark, while (then) near unknowns like Black Panther and Captain Marvel cruised past the billion dollar mark with ease shortly after. The public, for better or worse, rejected Snyder's take on these characters and it would have been foolish of WB to keep going with him after BvS if it weren't for the fact that they were already about to start filming Justice League by the time they realized BvS wasn't going to do what it was projected to do. And we know it's not just that the mass audience hates DC in general, because Wonder Woman did well and Aquaman broke a billion in a box office run that must still give WB's market analysts panic attacks about their complete inability to predict human behavior. Remember, the very notion of an Aquaman movie even existing was a running gag on Entourage not 10 years earlier, and now James Wan just took him to the fucking billionaire's club. And it's pretty easy to see what the variable is here: Zack Snyder.

In a world where WB was more cognizant of why the MCU works and how to directly compete with it, Snyder would never even have had a chance to touch the Justice League movie (it of course can be strongly argued that trying to compete with Marvel should not be their goal in the first place but, welll...1. It's WB and they don't know any better and 2. That competiton is the premise of the article in question). Snyder's cut of Justice League proves mainly that he without any question has no idea how to portray any of these characters in any kind of positive or aspiration way, that he still hasn't learned how to edit together a coherent first act after all these years (MoS's is out of order and BvS' first act scene order might as well have been chosen at random), he has absolutely zero concept of pacing or belief in the notion of each shot in a film having a purpose and reason to be in it, and that he decided to bow down entirely to the pressure of his fans and pander incredibly hard and obviously to them.

For all the talk about his "vision," the Snyder Cut is full of meaningless bloat that is only there because the fans expected it to be. There's no reason whatsoever to see Superman stop in to see Alfred - yes he needs to find out where the JL has gone so he can meet them, but there are at least three ways he could do that and we don't need to know which one he used. That scene is there because the Snyder fans knew it existed due to shots of it being released, and Snyder knew if it wasn't in the movie they'd lose their fucking shit over it still being gone, so it's there to prevent them from thinking the Snyder Cut had any cuts made to it at all, even ones it desperately needed to function as a coherent piece of storytelling. I'm pretty sure that's why Martian Manhunter shows up at the end instead of a Green Lantern, too, as a GL would make vastly more sense there as opposed to J'onn revealing he's been here the whole time but just...didn't help at all for some reason, but Snyder had already shown his concepts of MM so he had to put him in or there would have been screaming.

Compound all that with the fact that it apparently got 1.8 million viewers over the weekend, or at least viewers of five minutes of it according to the data, which at current ticket prices and generously assuming each view would equate to two moviegoers in a theatrical release works out to a piddling $36 million opening weekend, mathematically a projected run not even enough to recoup the $70 million plus marketing costs of the Snyder Cut reshoots and post-production work, let alone the reported half a billion they already spent on the movie in the first place (production + marketing). And while 1.8 million views is enough to squeak out a 100,000 viewer win against Falcon & The Winter Soldier, it's not enough to beat the 3 million viewers who watched the finale of The Bachelor. And probably not enough to beat WB's own Godzilla vs. Kong, whose trailer currently has three times the views of the Snyder Cut trailer on YouTube. And let's face it, if you can't even beat Godzilla, you ain't gonna beat the Avengers. My guess is that WB really did close the book on Snyder's DC films with this, but if Flash and Black Adam tank next year, I expect they'll come crawling back to him due to inexplicably not having any better ideas.
 

Penguin

The Mushroom Kingdom Knight
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,222
New York
I say this as someone who actually likes MoS/BvS, but how are you going to say the man who was responsible for the DCEU being in such a lukewarm position for years to begin with.... also the one who is gonna save it?
 

Deleted member 43657

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May 19, 2018
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I don't like Marvel movies, but I especially don't like the Snyder DC movies, so I don't really know. The type of graphic violence in the Snyder films would sorta prevent it from making as much as the more "mainstream" Marvel movies, no?