I mean technically they kinda did that with the Wired article. But yeah, while they could do pretty much whatever they want, they will still make an event of it. It's just the done thing.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air
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I mean technically they kinda did that with the Wired article. But yeah, while they could do pretty much whatever they want, they will still make an event of it. It's just the done thing.
I think the safe bet is that Sony gives us a "full" reveal in Spring 2020. The only way I see this happening earlier is if they surprise us all and release in Spring 2020.
Honestly, this is just "get hype" speculation on my part but a Fall 2019 announcement for a Spring 2020 launch would pair well with officially dropping the price on PS4 for this holiday.
on november 8th, when Death Stranding launches, sony are gonna randomly tweet out "PlayStation 5 is out in the stores right now", team 2019 with a last minute comeback!
I know it has become a trend not to look at past console generations that much when speculating about this upcoming one and I get that, why would Sony and Microsoft be bound by what they did in the last 20+ years? We got mid-gen refreshes now which is unprecedented (I'd actually argue that the SEGA CD/N64 RAM pack are sort of a precedent) so people don't want to be bound by the rules of the past. Why not push past 200w tdp, hell why not push past 245w or 300w? What is keeping them from doing that?
I get that but with this recent speculation something is bugging me. An 11 TF or 13 TF RDNA GPU would immediately be AMD's top of the line card and there aren't any hints about such a GPU being released in the next few weeks/months putting the earliest release for such a GPU in late 2019 or early 2020 i.e. safe to say, less than a year before next gen consoles will be released.
How likely is it that AMD's top of the line card, or even one rung below, let's say the 2080 to their 2080 TI, how likely is it that such a card would end up in an affordable and at least somewhat power efficient next gen console less than a year later?
Yeah console manufacturers don't pay consumer prices, consoles tend to be sold at a loss, APUs are more power efficient than setups with discrete GPUs, 7nm+ will become a thing at some unknown point in the future and it will bring unknown benefits at unknown conditions - but that only gets you so far. Disregarding the past and just looking at this from a current standpoint, how likely is it for AMD's flagship high end GPU to end up in a console less than a year later?
There is unprecedented and there is wishful thinking.
I get that but with this recent speculation something is bugging me. An 11 TF or 13 TF RDNA GPU would immediately be AMD's top of the line card and there aren't any hints about such a GPU being released in the next few weeks/months putting the earliest release for such a GPU in late 2019 or early 2020 i.e. safe to say, less than a year before next gen consoles will be released.
How likely is it that AMD's top of the line card, or even one rung below, let's say the 2080 to their 2080 TI, how likely is it that such a card would end up in an affordable and at least somewhat power efficient next gen console less than a year later?
Yeah console manufacturers don't pay consumer prices, consoles tend to be sold at a loss, APUs are more power efficient than setups with discrete GPUs, 7nm+ will become a thing at some unknown point in the future and it will bring unknown benefits at unknown conditions - but that only gets you so far. Disregarding the past and just looking at this from a current standpoint, how likely is it for AMD's flagship high end GPU to end up in a console less than a year later?
There is unprecedented and there is wishful thinking.
from what i understand threre is some power efficiency regulation they have to stand by that is preventing them from going above 200W, but i am not an expert, maybe someone else can explain it better.
Lol
I expect Sony to unveil earlier based off the fact that I think they'll just try to replicate how they revealed PS4, whereas Microsoft will rest on E3.
And Sony already beat MS to the soft reveal by a few months, but I think while they play quiet, they very much like to be in control of the marketing message.
Yeah, they're probably going to do an event and make a spectacle of it but the need for such events is overrated in the social media era. They could announce PS5 via State of Play and it'd carry all the same weight and hype of a press conference.
Yeah I brought that up originally as a reason why console manufacturers are likely to adhere to the 200w limit they adhered to before and I still stand by that. I was playing devils advocate there. The only reason why Sony and MS haven't been hit with heavy regulations that actually force them to adhere to some sort of power draw ceiling is because they are A) too big an industry making too much money B) weaseling their way out of regulation by saying "how much power the hardware draws depends on the game being played" which is why currently only idle/video/audio modes are being tested and regulated.
In theory the console manufacturers could just say "eff you EU" and pull out of the agreement, but of course they are profiting from playing nice and cooperating by choice because it could easily be taken away from them.
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Before anyone calls me out for using the word "limit". I realize it's not a technical limit or a regulatory limit, pushing past 200w would be a first and in a time when the EU and Japan are becoming more and more energy conscious the regulatory boards would be puzzled why despite using far more advanced technology the power draw of dedicated home consoles is going up instead of being reduced or stagnating.
The point that heavy restrictions on power draw would somehow weaken Sony's and MS' console business goes out the window when you look at Switch and Wii. Currently both manufacturers are better off operating within the leeway they were given instead of pushing the boundaries.
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Its not wishful thinking, its more like you not being able to think past what you can see right in front of you.
Your first mistake is that you seem to be forgetting that there is at least 16-18 months between the release of AMD's 5700 GPUs and these next gen consoles. You really believe AMD is not going to release a full range of GPUs in all that time?? Just remember you read it here, whatever the PS5/Scar GPUs are revealed to be, will be considered as mid-tier (at best) GPUs by the time the consoles launch. Which will mean that AMD will have GPU offerings that match and exceed them in the PC space (in the exact same way there were GPU offerings that matched the PS4pro and XB1X).
More so, be rest assured that you will also see 7nm cards from nvidia next year. Yeah I know it seems like everyone is being excited about next gen console hardware now compared to what "currently" on the market today, but make no mistake, come next year a 10TF - 11TF console wouldn't sound so impressive.
If you really want to get a grasp of how different things are now, just look at 2016/2017 an the Polaris arch that went into the PS4pro and XB1X. Not only did it make it into the console (PS4) in the same year that it was released to the PC, the PS4pro version of the GPU even had features from the as yet unreleased Vega arch.
I think they need to do a proper conference - from what I remember, PlayStation Meetings aren't exactly like State of Play or their E3 conferences, they're much more "business conferences" for journalists and shareholders, despite the big event they are for us. I think some people might not like it if they didn't do all they could when it came to the announcement.
Yeah thats true but the press is less important than they used to be. Video game publishers used to only invite the press to play unreleased games, now they invite youtubers and twitch streamers.
As I said, I do agree they'll probably do this via some type of event. I'm just pointing out their recent behavior along with the changing media landscape makes it hard to predict. There's a general assumption in this thread that we're going to get a Playstation Meeting in February which is entirely based on PS4 being unveiled at a Playstation Meeting in February. There's no reason to assume everything will hold to form when recent evidence shows anything but.
Did anyone else also notice some rougher edges during the Death Standing video, like the tires during the mama trailer or some wird distant shadows and stones in the wake up trailer.
Maybe the other trailers masked this better but maybe this is what PS4 will look like and the previous trailer are more in line with the ps5/pc version.
Maybe the other trailers masked this better but maybe this is what PS4 will look like and the previous trailer are more in line with the ps5/pc version.
Sony has patented a device that has an outrageous amount of vents. Seems like a possible dev kit patent?
Price of hardware is the most important factor in any console type system. There's a reason why next gen consoles based on RDNA GPUs will come out in more than a year from now. Stadia will launch one year earlier.
I'm not doubting that next gen consoles will use top of the line architecture and are likely pushing beyond with some things being picked from AMD's roadmap. That lines up with with what we've come to expect from next gen consoles. It's the raw power part that is bugging me, I just see no basis for it.
Let's take the 5700XT and extrapolate from there to get an understanding of AMDs GPU 2020 portfolio.
The 5700XT is a 7nm, 9.75 TF card, drawing between 210w-225w
So now I'm accounting for 7nm+ (10% perfomance uplift is what I read) and "architectural improvements" adding a generous 2 TF, boosting the equivalent card from the 2020 portfolio to 11.75 TF using the same power draw (also boosting the 5700 equivalent to 5700XT performance at the same power draw as its predecessor).
Now the question is, would such a GPU be console candidate?
I'd argue that it isn't, just like the 5700XT currently isn't, at least without adjustments that will unfortunately also reduce performance.
No they wouldn't.
Anyone involved in consumer electronics that are dependent on semi-conductor manufacturing are as accutely aware of the death of Moore's Law and the gradual increase in power consumption for a given performance jump due to parasitic effects.
Regulators and the experts that inform them are no exception.
No-one is going to be under any illusion that console makers can somehow magically see reductions in power consumption for the same generational leap in processor performance that defines each console hardware generation.
Especially when silicon processors in nearly every other application are seeing power consumption increase, not decrease.
Sony and MS are not under and regulatory mandate to minimise console power consumption. The EU initiative is a voluntary scheme, however, the focus isn't minimising power consumption but ensuring the most power efficient technologies are utilised; and even then it's less about power efficiency under load rather power usage in non-gaming and idle conditions. This is the big misconception of many here.
Consoles are designed for performance and price, not power consumption. So if a target performance can be met within a given acceptable price bracket, the power consumption is an unavoidable artefact. What Sony and MS can do is design in measures to minimize non-gaming and idle power consumption and increase the overall energy efficiency of the device... that's the bit EfficiencyEU is focused on.
PlayStation 5 Dev Kit Image from Patent
Here it is...
Seems like a crazy continuation of the design for PS4 dev kit.
In awe at the size of this lad. Absolute unitHere it is...
Seems like a crazy continuation of the design for PS4 dev kit.
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it weirdly reminds of the original xbox prototype lolHere it is...
Seems like a crazy continuation of the design for PS4 dev kit.
Here it is...
Seems like a crazy continuation of the design for PS4 dev kit.
V has come to
It's crazy imo that we may have a picture of the dev kit (patent), know about the SSD from Sony, and have little else other than the 3.2/1.6 CPU Gonzalo leak.
It's weird that we know so much more about Sony's next system than Xbox, you'd think they'd both be roughly on the same timeline for holiday 2020.
I know PS5 is after April 2020 per Sony's comments, and I tend to think November 2020, but I guess I could see September 2020.
Always thought it was weird for NBA 2K, Madden, FIFA, these big sports games to launch on new systems 3-4 months after other systems. Maybe a late September launch so they can use Madden/2K/FIFA along with maybe a big third party game (Bully 2? destiny 3? BGE2?) then have a major Sony exclusive that's PS5 only ship in November like Horizon 2 (for example)
I want to believe the 25th anniversary of PS on 12/4 will give us something even if it's just a teaser trailer like switch in October 2016
It's weird that we know so much more about Sony's next system than Xbox, you'd think they'd both be roughly on the same timeline for holiday 2020.
I know PS5 is after April 2020 per Sony's comments, and I tend to think November 2020, but I guess I could see September 2020.
Always thought it was weird for NBA 2K, Madden, FIFA, these big sports games to launch on new systems 3-4 months after other systems. Maybe a late September launch so they can use Madden/2K/FIFA along with maybe a big third party game (Bully 2? destiny 3? BGE2?) then have a major Sony exclusive that's PS5 only ship in November like Horizon 2 (for example)
I want to believe the 25th anniversary of PS on 12/4 will give us something even if it's just a teaser trailer like switch in October 2016
Here it is...
With such a configuration you might achieve 2000 Mhz. LMAO ....
Reminds me of a hammerhead with big gills on each side, ... kind of
perfection!
Did TSMC figure out how to make 7nm and 7nm+ work together on the same die?
GREEN.
If I remember correctly Stadia can use several Stadia-GPUs if the game supports it, and they can update the Stadia hardware over time (which they need too to reach 8K 120fps). I don't think PS5 or the next Xbox will have more power than two or more Stadia-GPUs, and I also recall Google stating that the GPU is custom. Do we know for certain that Stadia-GPU is Vega? Everything indicates that it is Vega, but I don't think we know for certain .
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The issue of Stadia will not be the computational power in the data center/cloud, it will be the latency between you and the data center and the bandwidth between data center and you as well.
I don't know how Google are going to make any money if individual gamers will require multiple GPUs
There are a lot of precendents here that you seem to be conviniently ignoring.
1) You are ignoring the fact that the PS4, the PS4 Pro and the X1X were all based on the x800 GPUs in the AMD lineups. NOT the x700.
2) You are ignoring the fact that the Pro and the X1X launched the same year as their Polaris equivalents.
3) You are ignoring how both the Pro and X1X were made for profit consoles and yet contained MORE CUs than their polaris equivalents. the 480 and the 580.
In addition, You are ignoring the fact that last gen consoles were essentially designed as $399 consoles with the kinect costing MS an extra $75 that undoubtedly factored into MS's plans. Not to mention the ESRAM on the die to allow for 8GB DDR3 RAM for TV TV TV which made the die bigger and more expensive This time around they both have a $100 more to play with.
You also seem to have missed AMD's own plans for RDNA2 cards. They have specifically said that Hardware RT will be in RDNA 2, that RDNA2 will be 7nm+ cards and that they will release in 2020. We know the PS5 and Scarlett will have hardware RT. We know the 5700 does NOT have hardware RT. We know both Sony and MS used polaris cards that released the same year. Why is it so hard to swallow that the same will happen with RDNA2 cards on 7nm+? Especially now that they will be willing to take a loss unlike the mid gen refreshes which were designed to be sold for profit.
Just a few months ago, there were many people here looking at Vega cards and their TDP to rule out 10+ tflops GPUs. There were many on the 8 tflops bandwagon because it was wishful thinking to assume Vega 56 performance in a console. Now that the 5700 has been revealed, those same folks are now basing all their speculation on the new GPUs which again do not even support ray tracing. we simply should not be basing speculation on these new cards.
Lastly, if you do want to base your predictions on these new cards than you are getting a 7.9 tflops GPU in the next gen consoles. the 5700 is 7.9 tflops at 185w. Same as the 580 which was more or less equivalent to the GPU in the X1x. If we are to assume that 185w GPU is the max console makers can fit in a $499 console then logic dictates we must settle for a 7.9 tflops GPU. Are you seriously suggesting we should be expecting a 7.9 tflops GPU despite all the precedents and other info i posed above?
While correct, that's just the max rating for the PSU. The console itself rarely hits 60% of that which just happens to be around the sweet spot when it comes to efficiency for most power supplies. IIRC OG PS4 has a 250w PSU and also uses about half that at peak power consumption.
Sure, I get your point. But why advertise it in the reveal? So the possibility for the developers is probably there. Regarding the financial feasibility I have no idea. If PS5 and the next Xbox is substantially more powerful than one Stadia-GPU they probably will need to use more GPUs for next gen games available on every system. Or they can offer downgraded versions of next gen games until they update the hardware. Will be exciting to see how it plays out.
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Agreed. The post I replied to was comparing Stadia's power vs PS5 and the next Xbox. It would really surprise me if PS5 and the next xbox has more power than two or more Stadia-GPUs.
SpinningBirdKick redeemed, 18TF here we go!Here it is...
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