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jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,497
I appreciated everyone's kind words yesterday.

Sorry i was not mentally strong enough to continue.

I subbed out so you can have someone more dedicated to solving the game.

Have fun everyone.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
I appreciated everyone's kind words yesterday.

Sorry i was not mentally strong enough to continue.

I subbed out so you can have someone more dedicated to solving the game.

Have fun everyone.
droppedthis.jpg
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
I'm out running errands but I'll try to at least catch up on what's happening this phase later tonight.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
Theres no point in testing Nat's claim right now
with the general consensus being on HP/anex/royal
and some names like me, nat(jman), LP
Umm, who is mumost scum to you then? Can we offer you anything to ease your suffering?
Wee
Bojack
You
Malus
Random
Vere
Zipped
Ephi
Anex/LP
Jman
Royal

Can't really separate Anex and LP. I'd probably drop LP to joint bottom with Royal if it wasn't for the fact that he has claimed doctor
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,803
Uh, how would we test it? The point of the role is a false scan, right? I guess the role implies the existence of a role capable of testing it in a way where the role matters (not just a mood ring).
You know this got me thinking…

who is the empath? They should scan Natiko.

To see if someone who would show up as scum gives a different response
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
If you all want to flip me at some point then not much I can do if the evidence is I subbed in and corrected my predecessor's lies lol
 

Ephidel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,738
I just wanted to quickly post to say I'm sorry I've almost completely dipped the thread so far today, I had something unexpected come up. I hoped to catch up and post something before bed but quite frankly I'm shattered and as I have to wake up for work in four hours I need a nap.
I will do my damndest to make up for it after work instead.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,626
I had problems with Ephi's lack of commitment and vagueness previously, but she has since stepped up helpfulness and pointed out wee's error when it was no benefit to her.
Pointing out wee's errors is its own reward.

As for why I haven't done a whole quote thing on yoou, it's because I have issues with basically your entire first 3 days worth of posts, which were all obstructive in nature and had no scum hunting and generally looked bad. But I can't just….quote them all. Everyone should do the ISO.

Also, I won't get it done because i'm
Migrating our accounting database personally, which I declared last year that I WOULD NOT DO, only after getting a quote on a third party doing it, apparently the bossman thinks he can just…decree….that in fact I WILL do it. And that I WILL meet a deadline set by other people. And that deadline is Friday, so I get to live in inventory, throwing away items that haven't been used in YEARS, and that's even though I did clean it up twice already. Plus all the accounting I normally do.
in real life.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,626
If you all want to flip me at some point then not much I can do if the evidence is I subbed in and corrected my predecessor's lies lol
Eh, a miller claim could explain jman's soft claim as well as claiming miller would. He doesn't march to the average beat, but he said nobody should scan him.

He also said he'd try and hurt scum with his role, which makes me idly wonder if you also have a move, but I am not asking. Just catching you up.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
Pointing out wee's errors is its own reward.

As for why I haven't done a whole quote thing on yoou, it's because I have issues with basically your entire first 3 days worth of posts, which were all obstructive in nature and had no scum hunting and generally looked bad. But I can't just….quote them all. Everyone should do the ISO.

Also, I won't get it done because i'm
Migrating our accounting database personally, which I declared last year that I WOULD NOT DO, only after getting a quote on a third party doing it, apparently the bossman thinks he can just…decree….that in fact I WILL do it. And that I WILL meet a deadline set by other people. And that deadline is Friday, so I get to live in inventory, throwing away items that haven't been used in YEARS, and that's even though I did clean it up twice already. Plus all the accounting I normally do.
in real life.
Rando largely did what you're describing, so you've been freed from your burden.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,442
At this point, his role claim is essentially to the other role claims that have staved off elimination. It would be an interesting role to falsely claim, though.

That's an interesting way of putting it, and it's not the first time you've mentioned claims "staving off elimination". Only two players have actually claimed to save themselves: me and HP (and Ephi if you like). Everyone else has been unprompted. You've also mentioned being on a scum list because you're among the "unclaimed". To me, you're trying to sow doubt in the claims and minimizing the solving to just putting players in two categories and working from there.

Show, don't tell. Actions speak louder than words. Just look at how I'm on a bunch of scum lists despite having a claim that hasn't been countered. Plenty of other players are on top town lists because of what they did re: Blarg, not because they had a good claim.

Bemoaning the fact that you're in the PoE partly because you haven't claimed in a role madness game is pretty suspect. It just sounds like scum who is having trouble coming up with a fake claim to go with the mod provided fake name.

Vote: anex
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
I'm back.

I think I buy Nat's claim. I could absolutely see jman trying to be a little gambit-y with a Miller role instead of going for the tried and true optimal play of claiming D1. Nat is not under pressure right now so coming clean with the claim right away seems pretty legit to me.

malus' role can be seen as a bit of an Innocent Child/Celebrity-esque role, so a Miller to balance it out makes sense, balance wise. Similarly, we've already had both Hated and Loved flips, as examples of others roles balanced by each other. I don't see a Miller being particularly out of place in this game.

I am going to re-read jman with this new revelation in mind, shouldn't take terribly long. I think wee has probably grasped the biggest takeaway already, that he said he would try to hurt scum with his role, which seems to imply there is an additional piece to it beyond just the Miller part. It's also possible he could just be a Miller and jman was gambiting. I do not want Nat to claim anything else right now regardless, it's unnecessary.
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
I just wanted to quickly post to say I'm sorry I've almost completely dipped the thread so far today, I had something unexpected come up. I hoped to catch up and post something before bed but quite frankly I'm shattered and as I have to wake up for work in four hours I need a nap.
I will do my damndest to make up for it after work instead.
I hope you're doing alright Ephi
687951133125509133.png

Life comes first, don't worry about the game if you've got a lot going on.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
That's an interesting way of putting it, and it's not the first time you've mentioned claims "staving off elimination". Only two players have actually claimed to save themselves: me and HP (and Ephi if you like). Everyone else has been unprompted. You've also mentioned being on a scum list because you're among the "unclaimed". To me, you're trying to sow doubt in the claims and minimizing the solving to just putting players in two categories and working from there.
We've had three days of votes, and role claiming has been used to save someone two of those three days.
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
Okay I re-read jman like I said would but I didn't really find much of consequence. I still think he felt like town!jman in his few posts. Based off that and Nat's claim I would say light town read there. I'm hoping that once Nat gets a chance to catch up he'll be able to put more down so I can get a stronger read. Not interested at all in pursuing Nat at this moment.
 
OP
OP
Fanto

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start

HPSauce (2 votes)
weemadarthur - #1,677
Anexanhume - #1,733

Anexanhume (2 votes)
Randomless - #1,779
Lone_Prodigy - #1,867

Royal_Flush (1 votes)
FateShirou - #1,676
Randomless - #1,691 #1,779

Not voting: Natiko, Royal_Flush, Ephidel, Verelios, Zippedpinhead, malus, BoJack Horseman, HPSauce

Post Counts:
Anexanhume: 44 FateShirou: 38 HPSauce: 34 Randomless: 30 Zippedpinhead: 22 weemadarthur: 16 Verelios: 14 Lone_Prodigy: 13 Natiko: 10 Royal_Flush: 7 Ephidel: 6 BoJack Horseman: 6 malus: 4 jman1954goat: 2


Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
Ok, time to share my role. I am Lwaxana Troi. I am Town-aligned. I hope the flavor nerds can chime in here. This allows me to roleblock any player at night. Last night, I targeted HP.

Why reveal now?
  • I wanted to see HP's reaction to the night events before saying anything.
  • I wanted to see LP's reaction given the role claim of doctor.
  • I wanted a chance to engage every poster on their thoughts about my play and alignment before I revealed my role (we're virtually there).
  • I wanted those with schedule oddities to have time to react to my reveal.
  • I wanted to avoid a situation where I might try to reveal in the middle of a turbo a la how fast Blarg went, especially with the threat of an HP double vote.
  • I at least wanted to cast doubt about alignment until first use of my power, which I felt much more comfortable using after the Blarg flip as mafia head.
  • While I can't be certain my role was successful last night, scum is certainly aware. My suggestions that scum could be searching for me based on the night action's may have not been picked up by town, but I certainly have to admit the possibility that scum picked up on that and will use it against me. It's better for me to let Town in on it in that event.
  • My discussion with Rando made it clear that even if I make it through the night, my vote for HP won't necessarily save me and divest me from the alleged scum trio that has emerged of me, HP, and LP.
  • In the event that subsequent attempt(s) of my role are unsuccessful, I may have a harder time explaining that than I do now, particularly with the threat of hydro cannon causing me to implicate an innocent Town.
  • I couldn't post detailed scum reads for fear I'd be tipping my hand of future blocks. It's clear that I've reached wit's end with some, so no need to further risk burning bridges.
  • In the event I am voted, at least Town will have the info of my block last night to inform the next day's vote.
  • If LP's claim is genuine, I give him more info to work with and create the potential for two games of cat and mouse with scum - not just one.
  • I give Town more time to point out things I may be overlooking due to my inexperience with role madness. Additionally, I can entertain more ideas about my subsequent use(s) of powers should I live to more night periods.
I hope this helps contextualize my actions thus far. I'm happy to answer anything else I can (within reason given use of power). I'm off to bed for tonight.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
So many words and I'm too drunk to focus. Let's see how I feel after being subjected to more Kingdom Hearts.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,878
Also idk what Jman did or if he did the "correct" thing but I'm a miller. I presume that's known hopefully lol
giphy.gif


He did not.
Ok, time to share my role. I am Lwaxana Troi. I am Town-aligned. I hope the flavor nerds can chime in here. This allows me to roleblock any player at night. Last night, I targeted HP.

Why reveal now?
  • I wanted to see HP's reaction to the night events before saying anything.
  • I wanted to see LP's reaction given the role claim of doctor.
  • I wanted a chance to engage every poster on their thoughts about my play and alignment before I revealed my role (we're virtually there).
  • I wanted those with schedule oddities to have time to react to my reveal.
  • I wanted to avoid a situation where I might try to reveal in the middle of a turbo a la how fast Blarg went, especially with the threat of an HP double vote.
  • I at least wanted to cast doubt about alignment until first use of my power, which I felt much more comfortable using after the Blarg flip as mafia head.
  • While I can't be certain my role was successful last night, scum is certainly aware. My suggestions that scum could be searching for me based on the night action's may have not been picked up by town, but I certainly have to admit the possibility that scum picked up on that and will use it against me. It's better for me to let Town in on it in that event.
  • My discussion with Rando made it clear that even if I make it through the night, my vote for HP won't necessarily save me and divest me from the alleged scum trio that has emerged of me, HP, and LP.
  • In the event that subsequent attempt(s) of my role are unsuccessful, I may have a harder time explaining that than I do now, particularly with the threat of hydro cannon causing me to implicate an innocent Town.
  • I couldn't post detailed scum reads for fear I'd be tipping my hand of future blocks. It's clear that I've reached wit's end with some, so no need to further risk burning bridges.
  • In the event I am voted, at least Town will have the info of my block last night to inform the next day's vote.
  • If LP's claim is genuine, I give him more info to work with and create the potential for two games of cat and mouse with scum - not just one.
  • I give Town more time to point out things I may be overlooking due to my inexperience with role madness. Additionally, I can entertain more ideas about my subsequent use(s) of powers should I live to more night periods.
I hope this helps contextualize my actions thus far. I'm happy to answer anything else I can (within reason given use of power). I'm off to bed for tonight.
Well, this puts into context why you seemed so pre-occupied with role fishing. I can certainly see where you're coming from.

I just can't reconcile scum having a 2 shot DV. I'd want to see HP use the other shot to be sure so I wouldn't mind voting him up.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Blarg had two votes before he got turboed, so I have to be at least aware of the possibility. The people who have criticized me for being less engaged are right in doing so, so I have increased my involvement today.

I think HP's list is suspect as a whole because he's my top scumread right now.

My list:
Town -> scum
Bojack
Zipped
Rando
Ephi
Wee
Jman (Neutral)
You (Neutral)
Malus
Royal
LP
HP

Bojack and Zipped I already read as Town based on their openness and attempts to make progress. Rando I rank as highly as them now based on our discussion just now. Of course I know he's mistaken, but I think it's well-intentioned.

I had problems with Ephi's lack of commitment and vagueness previously, but she has since stepped up helpfulness and pointed out wee's error when it was no benefit to her.

Wee I struggle with because the issues with me seem to come out of nowhere, and I'm still waiting for an explanation. That doesn't hit as particularly Town or scum, hence the alignment near neutral.

With you, I am having trouble connecting with your strategy, so it strikes me as a wildcard like Blarg. In the case of Blarg, you almost want to eliminate him just to get rid of a wildcard. Especially when he didn't attempt to participate in this game. After reviewing the vote activities, it looks like he was lying low after bailing out HP.

jman I'm also neutral on. I feel bad for the views he expressed because I want everyone to enjoy the game and feel involved, but I can't let that color my perception of alignment. There simply hasn't been enough content to judge otherwise.

Malus I have a similar feeling as Ephi, but don't feel I've seen the pivot to helpfulness.

LP I'm just suspicious of because of now claiming has worked this game. Pointing out one's own sloppy play feels like something I wouldn't let in on myself, so I question if it's performative.

Royal has been skirting by, and I assume the beef with you is genuine, but have to accept that it could be a diversionary tactic. Being frustrated with game circumstances usually has the connotation of a frustrated townie.

HP, the double vote looks like a scum ability for sure in retrospect. The fact that Blarg helped save HP and then HP never voted Blarg convinced me given that was a unique set of voting circumstances between those two days.
This looks like a very hedgy reads list.

I can believe the role claim by Anex, but I don't really buy that it's Town aligned. He's been role fishing heavily the whole game, but why would Scum claim their real role in the game thread? So the fishing really only benefits Scum to give them targets to kill at night.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
I don't have a ton going on tomorrow and I'll catch up on this phase during work. Sorry about tonight. It got… rough.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
Ok, time to share my role. I am Lwaxana Troi. I am Town-aligned. I hope the flavor nerds can chime in here. This allows me to roleblock any player at night. Last night, I targeted HP.
Okay, I was going to comment on Nat joining and claiming, but then this came along (FYI, I never doubted jman's patented town gambit. I'd be more worried if he DIDN'T say something strange D1).

First thought, why target HP at night when we assume his DV is a day action? Is this you trying to not-so-subtley claim to have prevented last night's kill?

Let me run through some of these one by one:
I wanted to see HP's reaction to the night events before saying anything.
Okay, and? What do you think now? Same for the next one about LP.

I wanted a chance to engage every poster on their thoughts about my play and alignment before I revealed my role (we're virtually there).
What does this achieve?

I at least wanted to cast doubt about alignment until first use of my power, which I felt much more comfortable using after the Blarg flip as mafia head.
What are you trying to say here? That last night was the first time you used your power? That you've been acting scummy on purpose to avoid a NK?

While I can't be certain my role was successful last night, scum is certainly aware. My suggestions that scum could be searching for me based on the night action's may have not been picked up by town, but I certainly have to admit the possibility that scum picked up on that and will use it against me. It's better for me to let Town in on it in that event.
I'm not getting the logic here. If your role wasn't successful, how would they be aware of you?

In the event that subsequent attempt(s) of my role are unsuccessful, I may have a harder time explaining that than I do now, particularly with the threat of hydro cannon causing me to implicate an innocent Town.
Not gonna lie, this reads like you making excuses for not doing anything in the future. Why didn't anex block the NK? Oh because scum stopped him.

I couldn't post detailed scum reads for fear I'd be tipping my hand of future blocks. It's clear that I've reached wit's end with some, so no need to further risk burning bridges.
Again, why would scum ASSUME you can block them? It hasn't really stopped LP from making their thoughts known. You can't just not give reads.

In the event I am voted, at least Town will have the info of my block last night to inform the next day's vote.
I don't like this faulty logic either. Even if you do flip town, it doesn't necessarily mean HP is scum.

Overall, I'm very skeptical of this claim, though I will take some time to think about it as it's probably coloured by the fact I already don't trust you.

Balance wise - and this is getting too into game design but it's a thought that hit me - would we have a doctor AND a blocker? Two ways to screw scum seems a bit unfair. With Blarg flipping as a scum tracker, a scum blocker would make a nice accompaniment. Blarg sets them up, anex knocks them down.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
First thought, why target HP at night when we assume his DV is a day action? Is this you trying to not-so-subtley claim to have prevented last night's kill?

We know his DV is a day action. But the mafia kill is a night action, and with the head mafia gone (Blarg), that necessarily meant someone else must issue commands. I assumed that wasn't HP based on his day action ability.

Okay, and? What do you think now? Same for the next one about LP.

HP has become incredibly defeatist today. It could be because he's suspected scum, or it could be because of last night's failure. It could be neither. I didn't expect it to be glaringly obvious, but I at least hoped it would be more than role claiming day start.

For LP, there's been no reaction except surprise surviving the night. That doesn't tell me anything because it could plausibly be a prepared scum ststmenr

What does this achieve?

I said that it is conceivable that scum could role fish, especially if they did suspect an unnamed role prevented NK. I also get assessments of my play unbiased by my role claim. Especially since I seeded the possibility of role block, I wanted to see how that and I were responded to.

What are you trying to say here? That last night was the first time you used your power? That you've been acting scummy on purpose to avoid a NK?

Yes, last night was the first time. I don't think it's a shock that a role like this would have limited uses, as it could be OP.

I've not been acting scummy in my view, just less forthcoming with reads than I was last game. I didn't want to gift wrap a list of future blocks.

I'm not getting the logic here. If your role wasn't successful, how would they be aware of you?

Because I explicitly alerted them to the possibility when I posited it was the reason for no NK and what they may be searching for. That gained no traction amongst town, so I wanted to avoid giving them info without explicitly telling Town.

Not gonna lie, this reads like you making excuses for not doing anything in the future. Why didn't anex block the NK? Oh because scum stopped him.
The goal is to prevent advertising blocks to prevent another Neki. E.g. it seems obvious I'm going to block player B. There's no NK that night due to hydro, I assume I blocked, and we kill another villager.
Again, why would scum ASSUME you can block them? It hasn't really stopped LP from making their thoughts known. You can't just not give reads.
Because I told them so, as previously explained. LP is a mirror ability. The people who are assumed town are those we inherently want to protect. I am targeting scum, so I don't want them to know my next move. And I don't want to provide false reads to throw them off since that hurts town too. You yourself said you wouldn't have targeted HP, so it's obvious my block target can be a surprise.
I don't like this faulty logic either. Even if you do flip town, it doesn't necessarily mean HP is scum.

Overall, I'm very skeptical of this claim, though I will take some time to think about it as it's probably coloured by the fact I already don't trust you.

Balance wise - and this is getting too into game design but it's a thought that hit me - would we have a doctor AND a blocker? Two ways to screw scum seems a bit unfair. With Blarg flipping as a scum tracker, a scum blocker would make a nice accompaniment. Blarg sets them up, anex knocks them down.
No, it doesn't mean HP is scum because there are still a lot of what if's. That's exactly why I presented this info with time to digest. Worst case, HP isn't scum and my ability didn't work, but Town was probably going to vote HP at some point anyway, so I don't think I implicated a confirmed or especially useful Town role.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
One important point I left out there. Mechanically, I don't even know if a specific Mafia member had to issue the order. So if HP and I somehow stayed alive, could I count on blocking him blocking the kill? That's a genuine question and helps guide future use of my role should I stay alive.
 

Royal_Flush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
879
I wanted to do that Fate ISO yesterday evening but then work became a fire I had to put out until 11pm, so that didn't happen. Will do it now, though.

But first, recent developments:
- I could see jman playing a miller the way he played. Natiko claiming Miller minutes after being subbed in would give very little time to run this by the scum thread. I have no reason to doubt that claim except for maybe jman having been a middle-of-the road read for me.
- Town role blockers are not unheard of. HP being Scum is not unlikely. It could check out. I have to say though that anex seems to be very sensitive to pressure right now and Scum fake claiming a tole that would draw the momentum to their closest contestant would be consistent with that.
- I have to think about what that means in combination with L_P's claim. No kill happened last night. Something must have screwed with Scum. Both roles could have done that individually. But we can't give them both credit for the same killless night, can we?
- I thought I got it from context but I'm not sure about it anymore: What does hydro cannon mean here?
 

Royal_Flush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
879
Oh, and one more thing. Back in my more active days there was a code of honor about never lying about real life circumstances, no matter of in-game alignment. I don't know if that changed by now but when I say I'm busy then I'm busy, full stop.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
One important point I left out there. Mechanically, I don't even know if a specific Mafia member had to issue the order. So if HP and I somehow stayed alive, could I count on blocking him blocking the kill? That's a genuine question and helps guide future use of my role should I stay alive.
On this, there's no one person who issues commands on a scum team. They'll talk about who they think is the right person to kill and come to a consensus on who should be the one to submit the kill command based on how likely they are to be found out/tracked or if they even want to jeopardise that person's "towniness".

And if scum have individual abilities, like Blarg's tracker, it's up to them if they want to use it. But again, will usually be a team consensus thing.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,878
I wanted to do that Fate ISO yesterday evening but then work became a fire I had to put out until 11pm, so that didn't happen. Will do it now, though.

But first, recent developments:
- I could see jman playing a miller the way he played. Natiko claiming Miller minutes after being subbed in would give very little time to run this by the scum thread. I have no reason to doubt that claim except for maybe jman having been a middle-of-the road read for me.
- Town role blockers are not unheard of. HP being Scum is not unlikely. It could check out. I have to say though that anex seems to be very sensitive to pressure right now and Scum fake claiming a tole that would draw the momentum to their closest contestant would be consistent with that.
- I have to think about what that means in combination with L_P's claim. No kill happened last night. Something must have screwed with Scum. Both roles could have done that individually. But we can't give them both credit for the same killless night, can we?
- I thought I got it from context but I'm not sure about it anymore: What does hydro cannon mean here?
Here:
Operation Hydro Cannon: A mafia strategy coined by Blargonaut during Love Boat Mafia. Refers to a Mafia team that purposely withholds a night kill in order to sow confusion.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,878
On this, there's no one person who issues commands on a scum team. They'll talk about who they think is the right person to kill and come to a consensus on who should be the one to submit the kill command based on how likely they are to be found out/tracked or if they even want to jeopardise that person's "towniness".

And if scum have individual abilities, like Blarg's tracker, it's up to them if they want to use it. But again, will usually be a team consensus thing.
This is true. Usually gamerunners will let the last remaining mafia use their ability and NK at the same time, otherwise no go.

anexanhume then who did you block the previous days?
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
I haven't read through today yet, but I did read day end yesterday. For those pushing HP - who are the remaining scum in a world where Blarg and HP are both mafia? Because I don't think in that scenario after HP has already nearly been voted out you bus Blarg over HP.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,442
I don't buy the claim. Why would scum send their most suspected member to do the kill? Scum has the tracker, sure, but if scum HP has a movement ability it's best for him to stay put.

Wasn't Bojack's N2 shot refunded?

The reads list is also very safe and keeps his cards close to his chest as if he's anticipating a scum flip and wants to provide as little info as possible for town. Yes malus could do more since he spent 3 days tunneling me, but his claim and Blarg vote seem pretty town.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
I don't buy the claim. Why would scum send their most suspected member to do the kill? Scum has the tracker, sure, but if scum HP has a movement ability it's best for him to stay put.

Wasn't Bojack's N2 shot refunded?

The reads list is also very safe and keeps his cards close to his chest as if he's anticipating a scum flip and wants to provide as little info as possible for town. Yes malus could do more since he spent 3 days tunneling me, but his claim and Blarg vote seem pretty town.
Good point on my refunded shot. Did I ever say who I targeted? Because it wasn't Leo, so it wasn't refunded because my target died. Anything it could be other than a blocker role?
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,075
I haven't read through today yet, but I did read day end yesterday. For those pushing HP - who are the remaining scum in a world where Blarg and HP are both mafia? Because I don't think in that scenario after HP has already nearly been voted out you bus Blarg over HP.
Fair point, but was Blarg really bussed? It's not as if his push was from scum (that we know) and HP didn't join in there. Blarg's elimination could have caught them completely off guard.
 

FateShirou

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
I haven't read through today yet, but I did read day end yesterday. For those pushing HP - who are the remaining scum in a world where Blarg and HP are both mafia? Because I don't think in that scenario after HP has already nearly been voted out you bus Blarg over HP.
it was:
6 - HP
3 - LP
3 - Blarg

5 minutes before EoD (3:55pm)
we finished the day with a hammer at 3:57pm
it took 2 minutes for blarg to go from 3 votes to 8
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
This is true. Usually gamerunners will let the last remaining mafia use their ability and NK at the same time, otherwise no go.

anexanhume then who did you block the previous days?
As I told Bojack, last night was my first target.

A few more points related to general discussion:
When I made the decision to reveal, I believed I had 2, perhaps 3 days (including this one) left. Given the suspect list, I reasoned that regardless of reveal, HP and I were likely going in some order. Given I got at least one use of my ability and was able to share those results, I felt I got some utility out of that. I also had no suspicion of Blarg, so I'm not under the illusion I have superior powers of deduction worthy of being preserved.

Fundamentally, I believe choosing HP over me for tonight is better because I make scum's choice either to choose NK or risk being blocked. That's better than not having to consider my role in their machinations. And while Town may doubt my role, I am sure Scum is taking me very seriously. I wanted to give Town the opportunity to cross-examine those doubt-mongering me.

For hydro, all will be resolved after HP and I are gone. You'll see I was telling the truth, decide you have to test the HP claim now, and he's gone anyway. The presence or non-presence of HC hasn't changed those events occurring.

Scenarios -> You kill me, I flip town, you have to test HP.
HP is killed, flips scum, you all agree it's possible I was scum bussing scum, and kill me anyway (but I had another night for my ability).
HP is killed, flips town, you all agree I was lying the whole time, but find out I was town at death anyway. I still get another night for my ability.

The choice seems obvious to me.
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
As I told Bojack, last night was my first target.

A few more points related to general discussion:
When I made the decision to reveal, I believed I had 2, perhaps 3 days (including this one) left. Given the suspect list, I reasoned that regardless of reveal, HP and I were likely going in some order. Given I got at least one use of my ability and was able to share those results, I felt I got some utility out of that. I also had no suspicion of Blarg, so I'm not under the illusion I have superior powers of deduction worthy of being preserved.

Fundamentally, I believe choosing HP over me for tonight is better because I make scum's choice either to choose NK or risk being blocked. That's better than not having to consider my role in their machinations. And while Town may doubt my role, I am sure Scum is taking me very seriously. I wanted to give Town the opportunity to cross-examine those doubt-mongering me.

For hydro, all will be resolved after HP and I are gone. You'll see I was telling the truth, decide you have to test the HP claim now, and he's gone anyway. The presence or non-presence of HC hasn't changed those events occurring.

Scenarios -> You kill me, I flip town, you have to test HP.
HP is killed, flips scum, you all agree it's possible I was scum bussing scum, and kill me anyway (but I had another night for my ability).
HP is killed, flips town, you all agree I was lying the whole time, but find out I was town at death anyway. I still get another night for my ability.

The choice seems obvious to me.
Not at all? We don't have to do any chains here, that is poor play. You and HP are not intrinsically tied together.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,878
As I told Bojack, last night was my first target.

A few more points related to general discussion:
When I made the decision to reveal, I believed I had 2, perhaps 3 days (including this one) left. Given the suspect list, I reasoned that regardless of reveal, HP and I were likely going in some order. Given I got at least one use of my ability and was able to share those results, I felt I got some utility out of that. I also had no suspicion of Blarg, so I'm not under the illusion I have superior powers of deduction worthy of being preserved.

Fundamentally, I believe choosing HP over me for tonight is better because I make scum's choice either to choose NK or risk being blocked. That's better than not having to consider my role in their machinations. And while Town may doubt my role, I am sure Scum is taking me very seriously. I wanted to give Town the opportunity to cross-examine those doubt-mongering me.

For hydro, all will be resolved after HP and I are gone. You'll see I was telling the truth, decide you have to test the HP claim now, and he's gone anyway. The presence or non-presence of HC hasn't changed those events occurring.

Scenarios -> You kill me, I flip town, you have to test HP.
HP is killed, flips scum, you all agree it's possible I was scum bussing scum, and kill me anyway (but I had another night for my ability).
HP is killed, flips town, you all agree I was lying the whole time, but find out I was town at death anyway. I still get another night for my ability.

The choice seems obvious to me.
Hm. Why was HP your first target? Or rather, im that case, why didn't you use your powers before then?
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
I don't think I believe anex's claim. It just seems too convenient.

anex panicking after getting 2 votes on him even though the majority of players seem to still want HP is also pretty sus.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
Hm. Why was HP your first target? Or rather, im that case, why didn't you use your powers before then?
Because I went back and looked at the vote record when Blarg flipped. He voted to save HP, and then never voted again. That was enough to make me very suspicious. HP also didn't improve his helpfulness to town in the interim, so I knew with head mafia gone, there was a chance it would fall to him. If there's a role that can monitor what someone does at night, it makes sense that HP would be handed the keys since he was already under suspicion. I laid out most of this logic when I voted for HP today.

I didn't use my powers before then because I wasn't sure who has head mafia (whom I assumed would be issuing commands). Blarg's flip gave me the confidence to go with first power use.
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
Are you saying that when I flip Town, there's a scenario in which you don't test HP, especially when his day role is already known?
Absolutely, I can think of several scenarios. The simplest would be, HP is under pressure, he uses his claimed second shot of double vote. At least we would know he is being truthful about his role, even if that isn't necessarily alignment-indicative. Right now, HP could actually be a JOAT or something like that with multiple powers, and a double vote is just the one he chose to use to try and save himself.

Another scenario that is not quite as simple or likely, but still possible at this juncture, is if a cop comes forward and says hey, I've got a green check on HP, I don't think we should go there. We already flipped the Godfather, and there's seemingly been some kind of switching already, so assuming the switches are x-shot and used up by the time the cop checks HP wouldn't be completely out there.
 

Randomless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,617
I don't buy the claim. Why would scum send their most suspected member to do the kill? Scum has the tracker, sure, but if scum HP has a movement ability it's best for him to stay put.
I don't buy the claim either, but HP seems pretty checked out. I think that is NAI on HP's part, but if he's being honest about being checked out and is scum, I could definitely see a scenario where he takes on the night kill duties and tells his scummates to hard bus him if the pressure turns on. I agree with you that if HP has a movement ability that is not x-shot/has not been used, it's best for him to stay put however, and I would assume his scummates would enforce that.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,918
Maryland
Another scenario that is not quite as simple or likely, but still possible at this juncture, is if a cop comes forward and says hey, I've got a green check on HP, I don't think we should go there. We already flipped the Godfather, and there's seemingly been some kind of switching already, so assuming the switches are x-shot and used up by the time the cop checks HP wouldn't be completely out there.

I'm also acutely aware of the switching abilities' potential to muck with my role. Whether or not that influenced last night's results should be considered too. I'm having trouble envisioning a mafia-aligned switcher that would want to redirect to HP, unless they were hoping to redirect doctor (but then there should have been a NK). Similarly, directing away from HP and manually forgoing NK seems unlikely given they weren't aware of my role's existence yet.

The amount of surprise (feigned or genuine) so far tells me that my function wasn't anticipated, which I'm at least happy about. Hopefully that narrows down the uncertainty regarding success of my role use.