I think we can all sgree that exercise of those social/financial consequences isn't always perfect
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The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)
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at this point , there is no denying she took it badly , she now takes one of the most normal and carefull statements in such a bad light.
No, of course not, that would be silly. They're arguing that this woman in particular should be free of consequence to say whatever she wants on social media while being rude towards members of her community (who are also now mysoginist, sexist pigs so long as they even so much as dare to mildly and politely disagree with her, btw) and by extension toxic to the company she worked for because otherwise the uh... gators win, or something, I guess?
I don't agree with the firing, personally, but it's also not hard to see that actions having repercussions is a two way street.
In what way? It has nothing to do with believing you were unjustly fired, or being angry that your employer encouraged hate groups to attack you as they fired you. It's literally just understanding a law that people misunderstand all the time when they're fired.
As I stated, I don't agree how the company handled her situation. Period.
But some people here are saying that what she did was right and blaming the guy. They are saying it in a forum where if her tweet was an OP her behavior wouldn't be acceptable.
But some people here are saying that what she did was right and blaming the guy. They are saying it in a forum where if her tweet was an OP her behavior wouldn't be acceptable.
To be fair, she clearly believes she got fired for being harassed and who would not take that badly?
That isn't what that banned user meant.
I think back to incidents like Paul Cristoforo debacle and you do get punished for treating customers poorly.
https://venturebeat.com/2011/12/27/...t-your-company-with-just-a-few-measly-emails/
The medium exchanges started with emails but it was magnified by social media. We are not tolerant of bad behavior like Paul and Jessica exhibited.
Besides in addition to this 1 year hire Arena net dismissed a 13 year veteran for publicly expressing his support of her stance.
When it comes to labor employer relations there are certain things you won't get lenience for regardless of gender.
It would appear that using past harassment as a shield from current criticism is going to be a common theme regarding this situation.
The new tweets sealed the deal for me. Playing the gender card to spin the whole thing as an attack on her by ANET is not the way to go. I wish her the best on her future endeavours but I reafirm my stance on her firing.
Yeah, omitting important stuff is not something I'd generally expect from this side, but here we are.
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this would have been a legitimate post to dig up and used against her had she ever claimed at any point during her debacle that her free speech rights were infringed
can you link me to her doing so? no?
Seriously. If Price were posting on this forum she'd have been permabanned a long time ago. Or at least have a lot of strikes on her record.
Can she please calm down a bit? Why is she treating everyone like an enemy? Even compliment sound like an insult to her.
She is handling this whole situation very badly, almost childish If you ask me. Seriously I don't think she's ever going back to that company, which is a shame cause I think this whole situation could have ended a lot better if she just apologize to Deroir for being so rude and unprofessional. Everyone would've been happy and she gets to keep her job as well, isn't that a more mature way to settle a dispute than just blaming your situation on everyone else?
I really don't want her to lose this job forever cause A) she's really good at it and B) while she was definitely wrong, firing her just seems a bit extreme.
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Yep.
Conversation like this thread are really reminding me of start of gamergate.
Rolling my eyes at all the comments calling her a crazy radical woman for being upset at her employer encouraging harassment of her and her fellow employees even as they fired her. She should just be a docile dame and not speak up so much. It will be better for everyone. /s
So basically we can't analyze the situation or how it was covered or else we spawn gamergate?
Is there now a moral imperative to side wholly with Price and throw basic critical thought out the window?
There are very few calling Price a crazy radical. There are several saying her comments towards Derior were uncalled for. Those are not the same thing.
While Anet's response may have been heavy handed, the desire to pretend there was no offense that started all of this which was devoid of any outside harasser influence is baffling.
Yes, I did read the freaking tweets, probably before you did. I still don't know why firing her would in any way, shape or form be "progressive".
Well, as long as you're aware of it.
The closest thing I can think of is when she said she wasn't informed by ANet that her personal tweets could have consequences.
I very much get Waypoint taking the angle that they are. In an industry that has been rife with abuse towards women working in any part of it, wanting to point out every single instance and siding with those who have traditionally been on the receiving end of the abuse makes sense from a progressive point of view.
It's situations like these, where it's hard to find any direct actions from the supposed aggressor, with people having to pull out "subtext" and (ironically) making assumptions of his actions despite all his previous comments implying otherwise, and where the typical receiver of the abuse is arguably the one who escalated the situation in the first place (and has a history of being pretty abrasive), where people are going to have a hard time wondering where to be.
I don't think she should have been fired, and I don't think he was being intentionally malicious with his tone/suggestion. It just looked like a fan who worshiped his hero a little too much, and came crashing back down to earth when his (honestly) useless suggestion didn't get him the reaction he thought it would. I don't think gender ever came into the equation for him, it was more of a fan who felt they knew better than the creator. And it's not like there hasn't been situations where the fans knew better, having a long tenure in the business doesn't automatically make you more qualified, it just gives you a bit more clout when arguing your angle.
However no matter how much you claim to not be representing the company on your off time, when you are using a public space and clearly labeling yourself as an employee of said company, you are representing them. And dismissing/acting aggressively towards those your company's customers is going to get you reprimanded, at any business (outside of being so high up as to be untouchable).
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What's really funny is that branching personality driven player dialog options actually were a part of the game during it's original release. And people paid so little attention do it most players didn't even notice when it was removed.
Typically firing employees for being rude to customers is an act that any progressive company would do, regardless of whether that act itself was considered one that made them progressive.
The 2 things as a general point should have little relevance to each other, yet here we are.
You can but the general consensus seems to be he wasn't.
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Deroir's post seems to reference this and mention that previous branching dialogue was mainly seen as something to do for an achievement (apparently there was an achievement to have seen every possible dialogue tree, which does cut against the idea of the dialogue choices being part of a player's roleplaying).
I mean they're right about that, if I go
"Would you please kindly suck my dick", I'd argue I'm being polite and disrespectful.
I just don't agree that he was being disrespectful.
I try to put myself in her shoes and I understand that she's probably not in a great place right now and that she's most likely suffering the idiocies of a littany of basement dwelling losers that this whole messed up situation has unfortunately summoned towards her but, she also seems to clearly have a tendency towards seeing enemies and affronts where there are none and is probably burning some bridges in the process, so in that regard my heart goes out to her and I wish her nothing but the best in the days to come but... sheesh.
I mean yeah you just gave an example of "polite" disrespect lol
I would say you can be unknowingly disrespectful in a polite way. Its about intent and how the other party views your comments.
Agreed with what you said, but do you really feel like Deroir was being disrespectful? How would you reply to Jessica if you disagree with her and want to have an open discussion?
(I'm not a native speaker so I'm genuinely curious. Thanks.)
I really REALLY don't think Deroir was being condescending, nor was he telling her how to do her job.
Sound like a typical NeoGAF/ResetEra conversation, and a fairly civil one at that. If you can't even handle this then I don't know what to say other than you *might* have an ego problem.
She handle it fine, the he was mad she denied him a proper dialogue, like he deserved one after telling how to do her job. Or like she had any obligation to do so.
I mean if I ever talk to a professional dev 20 something tweets about game writing with condescending 3 half assed ones like I know how to do better, and the I get a "that doesn't even deserve an answer", I, sure as hell, wouldn't act like a victim, like I deserved an answer even if I was on the wrong.
https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/9/17549492/arenanet-jessica-price-guild-wars-2-writer-fired
Based on this summary, her firing was entirely appropriate. She went off on a customer for no reason AND smugly accused him of sexism, with no evidence.
I would have certainly reprimanded her severely, and termination here was reasonable.
Based on this summary, her firing was entirely appropriate. She went off on a customer for no reason AND smugly accused him of sexism, with no evidence.
I would have certainly reprimanded her severely, and termination here was reasonable.
I don't think being "progressive" have anything to do with her firing at all.
I'm sorry if my tone sounded condescending to you. Nothing personal, but there are a lot of posts here that seems to be misinformed and may have not seen her tweets, and I'm not sure why you wouldn't think that this person wasn't worth firing over. ArenaNet kind of recently changed leadership, and they wanted to be closer to the community when it comes to feedback. And I don't think they just pressed the fire button willy-nilly, either. There must have been some other things behind the scenes and twitter drama that the company don't want to disclose. But that's just my speculation
I think she definitely went a little over board with her tweet at that one dude that was trying to discuss the dialog options. But I didn't think she went so far as to actually be fired because of her tweet. If I was looking for a job in the games industry ArenaNet would most certainly be on the bottom of my list right now cause they will throw you away without a second thought.
You can be a strongminded person but she talks like stereotypical dudebro edgelord.
Everyone should bow to her and if you don't she didn't care. Meanwhile she will continue to talk regularly on social media because she she is meant to be heard. She does not care for feedback unless you are someone who matters.
People like Anita Sarkisian and Zoe Quinn are worth listening to. I don't see the need to respect an asshole who is clearly proud of being an asshole.
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i assume that these are the comments you are referring to?
i dunno, i feel like you'd have to deliberately try to misunderstand her if you want to argue that her earlier tweets about free speech are an effective gotcha about what transpired because of these comments
It seems to me that if she could have answered better to the commend or not answer at all and nothing would have happened.
You have this bizarre axe to grind with Deroir. He voiced an opinion as politely as you can voice an opinion.
Selective reading is in full force here:
"he was mad she denied him a proper dialogue"
and yet
"just replying that I am wrong" is a response Derior says he would have accepted.
Also, you're definition of condescending appears to boil down to the idea that one would deign to disagree with someone who happens to be a professional. Which begs the question, do you consider user feedback/player testing/etc all inherently condescending? Or does this standard only play out in this specific dynamic?
He was trying to have a discussion on a topic they're both passionate about on an open forum. She was a shitheel to him. I swear to god my dude, if you read his words and a part of your brain starts going "oh my I don't need this oh my god this doesn't deserve my time, actually more than that I'm going to slam down on this clear attack on my gender, no, my very being WHO THE FUCK DARES TO-" then I feel like navigating your way through this very forum must be like, really difficult for you.
User Banned (3 Days): Vilifying journalism + attempting to discredit feminism
No mather how hard gaming média tried, Common sense is winning, this os probably the worst case i ever Saw, trying to push One agenda, hiding facts and being extremely unfair to arenanet CEO and Deroir making them sexist pigs when sexism was nothing to do with the firing. They do more wrong than good to true feminism ideals.
Polite, constructive conversation can still be disrespectful if not delivered at the right place/time under the right pretenses (i.e. the person receiving it sought it out).
But even moving beyond that first exchange, once Price made it pretty clear she wasn't open to that discussion, for him to make sure EVERYONE knew how disappointed he was, was pretty telling. He wasn't "politely" withdrawing from the conversation at all. Politely withdrawing from a conversation on Twitter means no response, or a simple apology followed by no response. "I'm disappointed in you #butI'mAFeministY'all" isn't polite by any stretch, it's pretty ridiculous to see people here try to paint it that way.
I keep seeing people mention this. Please, sir, please inform me of what standards of evidence I must provide when accusing someone of sexism. Which forms do I need to fill out? Do I need them duplicated, or will a single copy suffice? Which office do I turn them in to? Will an email work, because I don't have a printer. As a woman, I lack the intelligence to understand the complex legal process involved when making such a heinous accusation as sexism, and obviously require your assistance and permission. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Gee, I guess it's a good thing you don't know where I work, huh?
I'm not stating this as fact but terminations don't normally happen in a vacuum. As in; it's not always just a single incident that results in the termination of employment. Now in this case it could be they let her go based solely on her interaction with Deroir on twitter and while that's entirely up to ArenaNet; I'm not convinced it's a great decision. (I'm the defacto hiring manager and "HR guy" at my place of work) . I'm not sure if we would ever let anyone go for something they said on twitter but depending on what was actually posted; anything is possible.
He apologized? Not before playing the victim. He deserved a discussion (without caring if his tweets was worth a discussion) or an answer (without caring about the fact she's not in any obligation to do so). He apologized because she made her angry while doing nothing wrong, again not apologizing for what he did wrong.
It's like there's two sides to this:
1) America really likes firing people for everything.
2) Customer service jobs are tough. So don't voluntarily take on customer service related work unless you can handle it.
1) America really likes firing people for everything.
2) Customer service jobs are tough. So don't voluntarily take on customer service related work unless you can handle it.