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Joeyro

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,757
The comments on his videos is what scares me. I mean the women in RDR2 are fighting for their right to vote, a basic right, and people in the comments call them feminazis and other vile insults.

That's deeply concerning and should not be a part of freedom of speech.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
It's so bizarre that people even think the attention had anything to do with it. If it did, you'd think his twitter and other social media platforms would see a commensurate boost. He piggybacked off youtubes shit algorithms and the most popular entertainment product launch in HISTORY to use this as a soundboard.

It has nothing to do with if he was deplatformed or not that boosted his #'s. But I can say for certainty that if his channel is shut down those 500K people don't magically come back.
giphy.gif
 

gattotimo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Lol that guy needs mental help
This, I agree. I don't know if it's me being over sensitive or the rest of the world being a bit too little, but I've always had LOTS of troubles causing wrecks in sandbox games like GTA. Even if I'm perfectly aware that they're not real people, I can't un-suspend my disbelief to the point of doing something so atrocious as to beat an innocent person and feed her to an animal.
 

Grigorig

Member
Oct 30, 2017
696
I think its better to publicly humiliate horrible ideas and viewpoints, and show to everyone clearly why they should not be followed. As opposed to simply saying "things are bad cause they are bad and so we will simply ban from speaking about them".

In my opinion, the reason racism and sexism and homophobia is so attractive to impressionable young white men today is because they have grown up being told that its bad and the taboo angle of not being able to publicly say horrible things without fear of "social backlash" has put the "anti PC culture" back on the map and made it stronger than ever. Fighting the fascists and the alt right in the open is better than allowing them to congregate and gain strength in secret on the internet and where minorities cant hear(which they do anyways fair enough).

No, deplatforming works. Allowing them on popular platforms just reinforces the idea that's an acceptable view to have. Youtube can and absolutely should ban this trash, and they have a morale obligation to do so, in my view.
 

Deleted member 1698

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,254
Well, i don't agree with that viewpoint.

You should, because it is correct. The people putting these views out there are just doing it for the cash/fame. If you remove that platform, they'll do something else for a few dollars.
Maybe that thing will actually be entertaining... well ok, probably not. But the mindless sheep will follow them into something where they can do a lot less damage to society. What you need to understand is that the "alt right", doesn't need to even be "right". It just has to be "alt something".

Let them be "alt fucking baseball" for a few years and have it be someone elses problem.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
you don't agree that deplatforming works or you don't agree that youtube should have a morale obligation to ban bigoted content?

I don't agree with banning controversial views in general, because anything can be judged as controversial depending on who is doing the censoring. Plenty of progressives have been deplatformed from colleges and different other places for example due to their views on certain topics, many of which have been 'judged' as bigoted in certain cases.

In my view, the moral obligation goes as far as calling out hatred on the merits.

But as i said earlier in this thread, i'm not gonna lose any sleep over not seeing a bigot's content on my dash. Of course, pragerU still has an entire youtube channel dedicated to pushing out bigoted content, so no real luck avoiding it it seems
 

MrSaturn99

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,487
I live in a giant bucket.

gattotimo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
This doesn't reflect well on youtube honestly. This asshole is giving them the finger and they're allowing it, giving him revenue from advertising in the process.
 

Dick Justice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,542
Good to see he learned his less-oh.
3037b55392.png

Yeah, good of Youtube to reinstate a dipshit with video titles like "deporting a Mexican", "beating up a gay vampire" and "bringing black man to KKK".
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
This doesn't reflect well on youtube honestly. This asshole is giving them the finger and they're allowing it, giving him revenue from advertising in the process.
Honestly, this reflects more negatively on Rockstar for me. It was incredibly obvious that people were going to do this. Thats why npc children are usually absent or invincible in sandbox games. Maybe don't put the kkk and feminists activists in your stupid sandbox game and allow people to do whatever they want. Some subjects deserve more respect.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Honestly, this reflects more negatively on Rockstar for me. It was incredibly obvious that people were going to do this. Thats why npc children are usually absent or invincible in sandbox games. Maybe don't put the kkk and feminists activists in your stupid sandbox game and allow people to do whatever they want. Some subjects deserve more respect.

Well, the KKK is in the game to basically be blown away by the player; there's no way to befriend them or make them allies.

Also, I don't agree the onus is on Rockstar here. They made a very open game and a few shitheads exploiting that isn't their fault.

And I actually like that you can help the Sufferage movement in the game.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,424
Honestly, this reflects more negatively on Rockstar for me. It was incredibly obvious that people were going to do this. Thats why npc children are usually absent or invincible in sandbox games. Maybe don't put the kkk and feminists activists in your stupid sandbox game and allow people to do whatever they want. Some subjects deserve more respect.

They literally give you positive honor if you kill KKK members. They're basically the only characters in the game where you can just go up and murder them and the game rewards you for it.
 

Theecliff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,004
I don't agree with banning controversial views in general, because anything can be judged as controversial depending on who is doing the censoring. Plenty of progressives have been deplatformed from colleges and different other places for example due to their views on certain topics, many of which have been 'judged' as bigoted in certain cases.

In my view, the moral obligation goes as far as calling out hatred on the merits.

But as i said earlier in this thread, i'm not gonna lose any sleep over not seeing a bigot's content on my dash. Of course, pragerU still has an entire youtube channel dedicated to pushing out bigoted content, so no real luck avoiding it it seems
the issue is that you're creating a slippery slope by conflating bigotry with a difference of opinion, positing the issue on the perspective of others rather than with the views themselves. sure, people can label progressives as bigoted, but actual bigoted views - mysogyny, homophobia, racism etc. - should not be tolerated in any space, regardless of political affiliation. bigotry is bigotry, and should not be likened to a difference of opinion or just another political view - not giving it a platform is not the same as denying someone for their political views unless you falsely liken it as such. they are not views that can or should be debated on the basis that they have some worth - bigotry by it's very nature is illogical. you can't meet in the middle or compromise with bigotry as doing so still gives into it.

to that end, deplatforming has been proven to work against people spreading bigoted views. milo yiannopoulos has completely dropped off the face of the earth in terms of relevancy when his twitter was banned and his book deal was shot down, whilst alex jones only seems to exist as an immortalised fictional character in memes mocking him after he's had his own social media presence banned. their own hateful rhetoric has barely resurfaced after the fact; people have largely forgotten about them. it didn't matter that people were able to criticise them when they still had their platforms, they were still able to spread their bigoted views just fine. if you're a minority who's the target of these people's bigotry, no matter how much they're criticised, they're still enacting violent rhetoric against yourself to anyone who listens, allowing it to fester and spread. if a platform actually gave a shit about mysogyny, racism, homophobia etc., they shouldn't let that happen.
 
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gattotimo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Honestly, this reflects more negatively on Rockstar for me. It was incredibly obvious that people were going to do this. Thats why npc children are usually absent or invincible in sandbox games. Maybe don't put the kkk and feminists activists in your stupid sandbox game and allow people to do whatever they want. Some subjects deserve more respect.
Also, agreed. I've always loathed their 'do-whatever-you-want-in-our-games' philosophy, and the shitty playing colture it enables. If you want to put KKK in your game, you should make them so they can only interact with the other characters in one way: being beaten and ridiculed. If you want to let assholes beat and murder innocent bystanders and minorities, program the game so the player is put in jail for 2-3 days of real time, during which he can't load a different save: no car chase, no shootouts, nothing that would please a sociopathic mind. You stay put for some time, and that's it
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
To the people moaning about Rockstar ...have you.played the game???

It handles minority and women considerably well within the setting.

Most of you won't care about that though.
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,047
This doesn't reflect well on youtube honestly. This asshole is giving them the finger and they're allowing it, giving him revenue from advertising in the process.

I don't understand how this idiot is even allowed to monetize his videos. It's so ironic that after the ad-pocalypse actual news channels reporting on topics like racism, sexism and etc. are getting demonetized on YouTube, but somehow this hateful content is being monetized...

In any case, screw YouTube for reinstating his channel and screw them for not seeing that this isn't "just gameplay lol", but only a medium to convey the hateful views of this user.
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
Well, the KKK is in the game to basically be blown away by the player; there's no way to befriend them or make them allies.

Also, I don't agree the onus is on Rockstar here. They made a very open game and a few shitheads exploiting that isn't their fault.

And I actually like that you can help the Sufferage movement in the game.
It's not even 'exploiting' though. They didn't hack the game. You can kill npcs that are political activists like you can kill any other npc in a completely weightless, dumb video game way.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
It's not even 'exploiting' though. They didn't hack the game. You can kill npcs that are political activists like you can kill any other npc in a completely weightless, dumb video game way.

So?

Most open-world games allow you to do some very horrible things.

If the line you personally draw is political activists, that's fine, but don't expect the rest of us to recoil with abject horror.

We have videogames that turn global war into entertainment; let's not pretend Rockstar has gone too far here.
 

Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,550
United Kingdom
Also, agreed. I've always loathed their 'do-whatever-you-want-in-our-games' philosophy, and the shitty playing colture it enables. If you want to put KKK in your game, you should make them so they can only interact with the other characters in one way: being beaten and ridiculed. If you want to let assholes beat and murder innocent bystanders and minorities, program the game so the player is put in jail for 2-3 days of real time, during which he can't load a different save: no car chase, no shootouts, nothing that would please a sociopathic mind. You stay put for some time, and that's it

I'm so glad you're nowhere near the development of the next GTA. Kill an innocent = lock your game for a weekend. Now that's smart game design.
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
So?

Most open-world games allow you to do some very horrible things.

If the line you personally draw is political activists, that's fine, but don't expect the rest of us to recoil with abject horror.

We have videogames that turn global war into entertainment; let's not pretend Rockstar has gone too far here.
...

Yeah, making videos of offering a black man to the kkk is business as usual in AAA video games...

Anyway, my point is that I would blame them before I blamed Youtube.
 

nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
I don't agree with banning controversial views in general, because anything can be judged as controversial depending on who is doing the censoring. Plenty of progressives have been deplatformed from colleges and different other places for example due to their views on certain topics, many of which have been 'judged' as bigoted in certain cases.

In my view, the moral obligation goes as far as calling out hatred on the merits.

Since you seem very adamant about pushing this view point, I am assuming this is something that you very actively practice. Please tell how it works in practice? When practising this, what are your success criteria and how do you measure your own success or failures and gauge its effectivity versus something like de-platforming?
 
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Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
...

Yeah, making videos of offering a black man to the kkk is business as usual in AAA video games...

Anyway, my point is that I would blame them before I blamed Youtube.

And you're point remains nonsensical.

When you create an open-world construct, people can use that construct in ways you might never predict or even consider and that's on them.

I could make endless videos of me dragging African American NPC's behind my horse - which would be vile - but that would be MY choice to be vile and not on Rockstar for putting black NPC's in the game.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,424
...

Yeah, making videos of offering a black man to the kkk is business as usual in AAA video games...

Anyway, my point is that I would blame them before I blamed Youtube.

That's such and absurd stance. It says far more about the individuals that would do this than it does about Rockstar. I'd say Rockstar made their feelings rather clear in the game when it comes to those issues. They literally have a mission where you're helping a women's suffrage group. You're rewarded for killing Klansman. There's a eugenics guy in the game and you can beat him in front of cops and they don't even care.

This game handles race and sexism in a way that few games do, and I mean this in a positive ways. Yet the only thing that the press and certain gamers seem to care about is what some random ass Youtuber is doing.
 

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,501
This reminds me of that edgy watchdog video a while back, where the player recorded a compilation of Aiden Pierce using the hacking tool to identify people as Feminists, Muslims, Jewish or LGBTQ then executing them. I wouldn't condemn Ubisoft for not for seeing the game systems used in that manner. RDR2 really isn't at fault for someone using the systems like this. The game never encourages these actions, even penalizing them. The only "solution" I could concieve is enabling the feminist to fight back, and become a very dangerous npc when threatened. Buts it's not Rockstars fault for making the npcs react similarly when hit/shot/lassoed
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
And you're point remains nonsensical.

When you create an open-world construct, people can use that construct in ways you might never predict or even consider and that's on them.

I could make endless videos of me dragging African American NPC's behind my horse - which would be vile - but that would be MY choice to be vile and not on Rockstar for putting black NPC's in the game.
But its hardly something that they couldn't predict.
Anyway, abusing anonymous npcs like any other sandbox game is a little different compared to something specifically political. This was bound to happen, and its hardly youtube's fault that they won't do anything about it.

That's such and absurd stance. It says far more about the individuals that would do this than it does about Rockstar. I'd say Rockstar made their feelings rather clear in the game when it comes to those issues. They literally have a mission where you're helping a women's suffrage group. You're rewarded for killing Klansman. There's a eugenics guy in the game and you can beat him in front of cops and they don't even care.

This game handles race and sexism in a way that few games do, and I mean this in a positive ways. Yet the only thing that the press and certain gamers seem to care about is what some random ass Youtuber is doing.
Well, what other AAA games allowed similar videos to be made? Killing random npcs is part of the formula. Unless they are important to the story, they are open to abuse. Why does Youtube have to clean up rockstars mess? Again, this wasn't a hack or anything. Anyone could do it. I'm just saying, if there is going to be outrage, it should be on rockstar.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
But its hardly something that they couldn't predict.
Anyway, abusing anonymous npcs like any other sandbox game is a little different compared to something specifically political. This was bound to happen, and its hardly youtube's fault that they won't do anything about it.

Again, the onus is on the fucker who made the video.

Even if they made it impossible to specifically kill the Sufferage lady, what's to stop the same type of asshat from simply going around and beating and murdering women NPC's?

Would that really be any better?

You're blaming Rockstar for making a free, unfettered construct (not unlike so many others) instead of focusing on the shitstain of a human being who decided this is how he wanted to spend his time.

This isn't about the game, it's about a sexist man-child using the game as a conduit for his juvenile and hateful expression.
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
Again, the onus is on the fucker who made the video.

Even if they made it impossible to specifically kill the Sufferage lady, what's to stop the same type of asshat from simply going around and beating and murdering women NPC's?

Would that really be any better?

You're blaming Rockstar for making a free, unfettered construct (not unlike so many others) instead of focusing on the shitstain of a human being who decided this is how he wanted to spend his time.

This isn't about the game, it's about a sexist man-child using the game as a conduit for his juvenile and hateful expression.
No one is saying that the youtuber isn't to blame. But if you want to do something about it, you either have to blame Youtube for giving him the platform or Rockstar for giving him the tools. I feel like in that line of thinking, Rockstar could have prevented this. 'Murdering annoying feminist' is the title that got all those views, not 'killing random npc women.'
Unfortunately, it looks like we are just going to have to suffer through these videos being all over Youtube.

Anyway, I'm done. I don't know what can be realistically done about this at this point.
 

Ostinatto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,543
No one is saying that the youtuber isn't to blame. But if you want to do something about it, you either have to blame Youtube for giving him the platform or Rockstar for giving him the tools. I feel like in that line of thinking, Rockstar could have prevented this. 'Murdering annoying feminist' is the title that got all those views, not 'killing random npc women.'
Unfortunately, it looks like we are just going to have to suffer through these videos being all over Youtube.

Anyway, I'm done. I don't know what can be realistically done about this at this point.

Are you out of your mind? what if someone makes a video of fighting Chun-li on any street fighter game with the title "Hitting Chinese Women", are you saying this is Capcom fault too ?
 

gattotimo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Again, the onus is on the fucker who made the video.

Even if they made it impossible to specifically kill the Sufferage lady, what's to stop the same type of asshat from simply going around and beating and murdering women NPC's?

Would that really be any better?

You're blaming Rockstar for making a free, unfettered construct (not unlike so many others) instead of focusing on the shitstain of a human being who decided this is how he wanted to spend his time.

This isn't about the game, it's about a sexist man-child using the game as a conduit for his juvenile and hateful expression.
They're to blame for striving THIS much for realism while, at the same time, neglecting to focus on realism when it comes to have the players face significant consequences to their actions. They go the extra mile to program wildlife AI to be hostile towards NPCs (what's the reason for that, game design wise, other than sheer 'realism'?), or KKK members to react to black people, but then fail to implement a realistic way for the player to be punished for those actions as they would in real life (ie permadeath or jailtime). Why? Cause it wouldn't be fun to 'play' your character while he is in a virtual jail for a week, I agree. But then, does this mean that torturing NPCs is?
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
They're to blame for striving THIS much for realism while, at the same time, neglecting to focus on realism when it comes to have the players face significant consequences to their actions. They go the extra mile to program wildlife AI to be hostile towards NPCs (what's the reason for that, game design wise, other than sheer 'realism'?), or KKK members to react to black people, but then fail to implement a realistic way for the player to be punished for those actions as they would in real life (ie permadeath or jailtime). Why? Cause it wouldn't be fun to 'play' your character while he is in a virtual jail for a week, I agree. But then, does this mean that torturing NPCs is?

I'd argue the consequences for being a shit in this game are much harsher than in pretty much any other open world construct I've experienced - and I've played most of them extensively.

Persistent bounties, reputation, even being chased out of entire communities offers more consequences than we generally see in these types of games.

RDR2 is still a game - which is why permadeath or spending literal weeks in jail isn't going to fly as a gameplay mechanic - but I think Rockstar has gone much further with implementing consequences to behavior than in any previous game I've played.

As to torturing NPC's, that's hardly new and you either remove that ability ENTIRELY or you deal with the fact that some people will get really gross about it.
 

Camells

The Forgotten One
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,056
Why this guy is still allowed to do those horrible videos? He's clearly breaking TOS goddamn at least demonetize his channel.

I can't believe anyone is playing devil's advocate on his case, shame on you