Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

Ferrs said:

Just go the Dark Souls route and make armors the same for both genders. Less work and less chances to do something stupid.

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Fuckin' for reals, this right here! This is definitely a major contributing factor to why I've managed to rack up 600 hours in the series combined thus far (and I still haven't quit, either).

Once again, I'm reminded of that quote by Guinsoo:

One other note is that it's hard to make attractive female champions that look female in our engine unless the boobs are noticable.

Unless the boobs are big, you won't see them in game, and if you don't see them in game, it will look more masculine.

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Nevermind why you need to make this such a priority in the first place over any other aspect of the character, gotta play up those femme attributes as much as possible!

I swear I would be so happy if a bunch of designers suddenly got the epiphany that female characters don't necessarily need to be presented as feminine all the time. Like, geeze. It's so important to some of these guys that they will literally prioritize femininity over any other aspect of the character, and then we're left wondering why 3/4 of an ensemble cast is generically sexy women who are virtually interchangeable...

Still don't know why it needs to be explained, I guess if you've never worn one you wouldn't know, but: skirts and capes are impractical. Short of being magical, they would not serve any purpose as armor in the traditional sense. Skirts in particular were made to accentuate the feminine, hourglass ideal, and while capes at one point had a purpose (basically a wearable blanket), that use has long since been eclipsed by technology (insulated outerwear being the most obvious replacement).

petran79 said:

too bad she's a fragile but good willed lady beneath the armor

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man, Jack-O is the last Guilty Gear character I'd call "fragile".

CannonFodder52 said:

Someone posted this in the XC2 thread, not sure if any of these are new, but it definitely shows the almost funny gender difference when looking at the first couple f/m siblings.

The 5th set seems fine. What you folks think of the girl in the 3rd set.

NSFW

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She's totally rad and "weird anime" in a way that's actually cool instead of just throwing boobs or ass in your face and the huge hand is extremely my kind of odd, imbalanced design. She looks even better in motion.

I also want to pet the bear, for the record.

CannonFodder52 said:

Someone posted this in the XC2 thread, not sure if any of these are new, but it definitely shows the almost funny gender difference when looking at the first couple f/m siblings.

The 5th set seems fine. What you folks think of the girl in the 3rd set.

NSFW

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I think the girl you pointed out is alright. There's some emphasis on her breasts (mostly the way the lighting hits them), but all things considered, it's a pretty cool design. I like the concept a lot.

ShyMel said:

I hope Titania stays safe from some of the other artists who are contributing to Heroes. I have seen some of my other favorites get the short end of the stick.

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Her Heroes design is pretty much identical to her original design, and considering she's not an Awakening/Fates character, there's no chance of her getting any more versions (;_;), so I guess we're safe? :D

psychowave said:

Imagine being a teenage girl who was super happy because thanks to Smash Bros she just found this cool SRPG series with a medieval setting where most of the women aren't completely naked or fanservicey, and then seeing the series turn into... this over the years. Yeah.

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Are you me?

It's depressing on two levels. One, like you said, the female designs were awesome. Two, there are no SRPGs quite like it that can serve as substitute. So if I don't want to see gross shit like sexualized little girls, a whole type of game is closed to me.

esserius said:

Still don't know why it needs to be explained, I guess if you've never worn one you wouldn't know, but: skirts and capes are impractical. Short of being magical, they would not serve any purpose as armor in the traditional sense. Skirts in particular were made to accentuate the feminine, hourglass ideal, and while capes at one point had a purpose (basically a wearable blanket), that use has long since been eclipsed by technology (insulated outerwear being the most obvious replacement).

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Um, what? Kilts were amazingly practical. Allowed for freedom of movement and just *felt* great. Capes are dumb. Capes have always been dumb. They can look cool, but if Incredibles taught us anything - they only lead to accidents.

ShyMel said:

I hope Titania stays safe from some of the other artists who are contributing to Heroes. I have seen some of my other favorites get the short end of the stick.

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She's safe. She's already in the game and her "damaged" portrait is nowhere near as bad as some of the others:

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Claus Grimhildyr said:

To me it read less like a personal opinion and more like it was a fact. Suggesting that there is only one character that can be considered a power fantasy for women - when this would be completely subjective. English is not my first language, so I do apologize if I had misunderstood what they were trying to get across.

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Literally nobody thought that.

Pau said:

Are you me?

It's depressing on two levels. One, like you said, the female designs were awesome. Two, there are no SRPGs quite like it that can serve as substitute. So if I don't want to see gross shit like sexualized little girls, a whole type of game is closed to me.

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Have you not played the Tactic Ogre series? Final Fantasy Tactics? Banner Saga? XCOM? Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 1/2? Advanced Wars?

Assuming you are referring to turn-based strategy RPGs, there are plenty out there. Why would one game suddenly shut the door on an entire type of game?

weemadarthur said:

Literally nobody thought that.

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Cool, I am apparently a nobody. Thank you for that!

Pau said:

Are you me?

It's depressing on two levels. One, like you said, the female designs were awesome. Two, there are no SRPGs quite like it that can serve as substitute. So if I don't want to see gross shit like sexualized little girls, a whole type of game is closed to me.

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They really need to bring back the Original Generation Shining Force games. Or another Tear Ring Saga.

Xaszatm said:

They really need to bring back the Original Generation Shining Force games. Or another Tear Ring Saga.

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That would require a certain level of competency from Sega.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Have you not played the Tactic Ogre series? Final Fantasy Tactics? Banner Saga? XCOM? Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 1/2? Advanced Wars?

Assuming you are referring to turn-based strategy RPGs, there are plenty out there. Why would one game suddenly shut the door on an entire type of game?

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Well, first of all, almost every single of of those games haven't had a recent release in a long time. Second of all, she is saying that the increased influx of lolicon characters has made it harder and harder to find games she enjoys. So, yeah, it can shut her out of an entire genre.

Mesoian said:

That would require a certain level of competency from Sega.

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Shh, let me dream

...ok how do you do a sad face emoji?

Plumpbiscuit said:

Isn't a longer metal skirt more protective of the lower body though...?

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It doesn't seem like it to me. With the size of the monsters in the series I just imagine one slamming into the skirt and bending them inwards to pierce the body.

There's also the issue of all the upskirt shots that happen in the game whenever your character gets hit with a launching attack..

Pau said:

Are you me?

It's depressing on two levels. One, like you said, the female designs were awesome. Two, there are no SRPGs quite like it that can serve as substitute. So if I don't want to see gross shit like sexualized little girls, a whole type of game is closed to me.

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I might be!

Yeah, one of the worst parts is the fact that something is actually being taken away from us. Dudes can get their cheap thrills anywhere; it's not that hard to find anime t&a, but what IS hard to find is a SRPG series that doesn't sexualize and demean its female characters for the male player's pleasure. And now that's gone. Yeah, there's Echoes (which still has some issues; there's a variety of facial shapes and even skin tones and body shapes on the male characters, whereas al the women are skinny and have sameface going on), but with how much money waifu shit makes, what hope is there of FE Switch following that direction? The truth is, it's not just a matter of making more games with decent female representation. There's a lot of men that need to have a mentality change to the point where blatant disrespect of women makes them not want to support a game, period.

And no, I don't think just having some sexy women in your game qualifies as disrespecting women. The point is that so many creators focus on making exclusively sexy female characters, or the fact that they can't envision a woman that's sexy in a way that's not completely degrading to us, or the fact that to them, "sexy" is synonymous with "little girl".

(while I'm at it, let me post an example of a woman that's, in my opinion, 1. sexy, 2. not completely covered up, and 3. not degrading to women whatsoever)

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Um, what? Kilts were amazingly practical. Allowed for freedom of movement and just *felt* great. Capes are dumb. Capes have always been dumb. They can look cool, but if Incredibles taught us anything - they only lead to accidents.

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A long metal skirt has never been practical though. Which is what the Monster Hunter post was about.

Granted, one can call it an acceptable example of fashion over function, but it's pretty clear that Monster Hunter tends to stick to cliches for both male and female armors, with only a few exceptions (male Kirin, female Nerscylla). And it gets kinda annoying.

I actually like Rathian armor looking like a metal gown, because Rathian is supposed to be a "queenly" monster, but it fits into the trend of male vs female armor in Monster Hunter very strictly.

Toxi said:

VGchartz' numbers are not trustworthy.

That said, Nintendo's published figures put the shipments of both Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii and Xenoblade Chronicles X at less than 1 million (Since only games that shipped a million or more are listed). I've seen claims that Xenoblade Chronicles comes to over 1 million when including the N3DS port, which makes sense, but I have no idea what the source for that is.

As for your question, no, it wouldn't be proof. Just being on the Switch is already a more probable factor for potential success than "sexualized character designs".

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4859 said:

Yeah, if it just clears one million, that would actually be a pretty huge failure considering the context of the situations.

The original had practically no na marketing, because the only reason it ever even made it to the states was because we fought tooth and nail for it, and it was only available at a single retailer, in the twilight and waning popularity of the wii, which nintendo had basically stopped supporting (The last years of the wii were weird) even then, NA was by far the biggest market for the game, dwarfing japan and iirc, coming out a little on top of japan and europe combined.

The sequel was a carrot on a stick for the lifetime of the wii u, which quickly became a spectacular failure of a system, and was finally released in the waning years of a dying platform.

THis is launching at the start of a systems life, a super hot system selling gangbusters, with the exception of out of place outfit designs, it is exactly the kind of game the systems audience is buying in gangbusters (Big ol honkin adventure) if it only marginally outsells the previous games that came out under those really bad conditions for sales with something over just one or even 2 million.... thats... pretty bad. It should be unthinkable that this game could sell less than a previous entry in this environment.

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That is true. Does this mean that we cant make an assessment whether sexualized character designs sold the game? But at the very least if it doesnt sell over a million we can say it hasnt?

Laiza said:

Fuckin' for reals, this right here! This is definitely a major contributing factor to why I've managed to rack up 600 hours in the series combined thus far (and I still haven't quit, either).

Once again, I'm reminded of that quote by Guinsoo:

Nevermind why you need to make this such a priority in the first place over any other aspect of the character, gotta play up those femme attributes as much as possible!

I swear I would be so happy if a bunch of designers suddenly got the epiphany that female characters don't necessarily need to be presented as feminine all the time. Like, geeze. It's so important to some of these guys that they will literally prioritize femininity over any other aspect of the character, and then we're left wondering why 3/4 of an ensemble cast is generically sexy women who are virtually interchangeable...

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because not just men play these games

I remember when Elder Scrolls online came out and a whole bunch of women were asking for more feminine outfits .... compared to the usual unisex stuff they did with fallout 4. Same thing with GTA online today.

Ferrs said:

Just go the Dark Souls route and make armors the same for both genders. Less work and less chances to do something stupid.

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Yeah!

...Funnily enough you DO sometimes spot differences between male and female versions of the same outfits. But they are minor, and almost never really gendered. Just mild stylistic differences. For example:


One of the biggest difference in genders is the Pyromancer outfit, it's completely different from male to female, and yet... it's not remotely sexualized or needlessly "feminized". It's just... different (I actually prefer the female version on the right, it looks nicer, though it's a bit of a misnomer because of the outfit is called the "tattered" set xD):

Xaszatm said:

Well, first of all, almost every single of of those games haven't had a recent release in a long time. Second of all, she is saying that the increased influx of lolicon characters has made it harder and harder to find games she enjoys. So, yeah, it can shut her out of an entire genre.

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X-COM just had a release less than a few months back. Last I remember it was devoid of Lolis.
Advanced Wars hasn't had any new games in years - but two new games have been announced that are similar to the franchise: Tiny Metal and Wargroove - neither of which have Loli's as far as I know.
Banner Saga 2 just released last year and a third is already in development. Again, doesn't have lolis.

There are plenty of strategy RPG games that do contain such content for them to choose, even if they are older.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Have you not played the Tactic Ogre series? Final Fantasy Tactics? Banner Saga? XCOM? Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 1/2? Advanced Wars?

Assuming you are referring to turn-based strategy RPGs, there are plenty out there. Why would one game suddenly shut the door on an entire type of game?

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It shuts the door on future releases or the genre, not past ones.

AND EVEN THEN, there's some stuff in FFT, TO and SMT:DS that's...questionable.

And man, Xcom designs are so dull. Not even moding can make them more fun.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

X-COM just had a release less than a few months back. Last I remember it was devoid of Lolis.
Advanced Wars hasn't had any new games in years - but two new games have been announced that are similar to the franchise: Tiny Metal and Wargroove - neither of which have Loli's as far as I know.
Banner Saga 2 just released last year and a third is already in development. Again, doesn't have lolis.

There are plenty of strategy RPG games that do contain such content for them to choose, even if they are older.

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Let's put it this way.

If you want an sRPG or a tRPG from asia, you are almost guaranteed to not be able to avoid it. Because loli's are in over there, it has infiltrated popculture in almost every facit, and it's not going to change in this or the next generation.

So it's like, either enjoy these western versions of RPG's or....get the fuck out. Those are your options.

psychowave said:

What if you want specifically a medieval Europe-inspired SRPG that is also not degrading to women? Fire Emblem was that, and now it isn't anymore, because god forbid men don't have t&a on their faces 24/7.

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To be fair, The Banner Saga and the Banner Saga 2 are excellent. But yeah, anything from the east, if you want to avoid that sort of thing, is right out.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

X-COM just had a release less than a few months back. Last I remember it was devoid of Lolis.
Advanced Wars hasn't had any new games in years - but two new games have been announced that are similar to the franchise: Tiny Metal and Wargroove - neither of which have Loli's as far as I know.
Banner Saga 2 just released last year and a third is already in development. Again, doesn't have lolis.

There are plenty of strategy RPG games that do contain such content for them to choose, even if they are older.

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What if you want specifically a medieval Europe-inspired SRPG that is also not degrading to women? Fire Emblem was that, and now it isn't anymore, because god forbid men don't have t&a on their faces 24/7.

Yeah, I don't want to get too far off topic but Fire Emblem and Shining Force are perfect examples of elegance in design that most SRPGs, much as I love them, very much aren't. Hell, Devil Survivor is on the literal opposite end of the spectrum as Japanese tactics games go.

There are almost no superfluous mechanics. It's quick, it's snappy, the stats are simple and make sense, there aren't dozens of obtuse active skills to juggle, and both have a very unique balance paradigm within the genre. Very little actually play like them, despite other games superficially being in the same genre. The Closest parallel I can think of mechanically out of current games is the recent Utawarerumono dualogy, which not only has a high amount of anime weird to deal with, but is also a solid 70% reading to 30% SRPG combat.

You might be able to find SRPGs to play that don't have anime weird in them, but finding an SRPG that plays like either Fire Emblem or Shining Force that also doesn't have anime weird in it? Please tell me if you find one, because I like photographing unicorns as a hobby.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

X-COM just had a release less than a few months back. Last I remember it was devoid of Lolis.
Advanced Wars hasn't had any new games in years - but two new games have been announced that are similar to the franchise: Tiny Metal and Wargroove - neither of which have Loli's as far as I know.
Banner Saga 2 just released last year and a third is already in development. Again, doesn't have lolis.

There are plenty of strategy RPG games that do contain such content for them to choose, even if they are older.

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XCOM is a completely different beast from FE in terms of gameplay, let alone most everything else about it, as is something like Banner Saga as much as I love that series. FE is really the only game in town that provides the kind of all encompassing experience of an expansive narrative, grand medieval setting, challenging but simple combat, great art and presentation and lots of unique characters that feature tons of really strong and well developed/designed female characters.

psychowave said:

What if you want specifically a medieval Europe-inspired SRPG that is also not degrading to women? Fire Emblem was that, and now it isn't anymore, because god forbid men don't have t&a on their faces 24/7.

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Not to be the damper on what you're saying, but isnt it true that the stupid waifu shit(anime tropes/etc) is what saved Fire Emblem since the series was in heavy decline before Awakening came out? (and being on the 3ds*) and my suggestion for an european srpg would then be FF tactics (not any of that advanced crap, just the psx/psp releases) otherwise... eh i dont see anything that has been made recently that'd fit that gap. (Dont remember how long it was since that wii or gamecube fire emblem came out here in the west)
Also to anyone suggesting Devil Survivor... lets be real we all make fun of the female designs in the game (especially that one main girl in DS2 with the bust that doesnt apply gravity because that artist didnt know how breast work apparently)

psychowave said:

What if you want specifically a medieval Europe-inspired SRPG that is also not degrading to women? Fire Emblem was that, and now it isn't anymore, because god forbid men don't have t&a on their faces 24/7.

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Whether it is degrading to women is completely subjective. Regardless you have Banner Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics, previous entries of Fire Emblem, Trails in the Sky, and Divinity Original Sin just to name a few.

Also, nice hyperbole.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Whether it is degrading to women is completely subjective. Regardless you have Banner Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics, previous entries of Fire Emblem, Trails in the Sky, and Divinity Original Sin just to name a few.

Also, nice hyperbole.

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I mean, again, saying, "you have all these games that already came out, so it doesn't matter if you're excluded going forward" isn't exactly the best argument here.

What are you supposed to do if you already played those games, but still want to avoid weird Japanese anime tropes going forward? What are you supposed to do if you want Fire Emblem without having to deal with a 12 year old in a thong?

sensui-tomo said:

Not to be the damper on what you're saying, but isnt it true that the stupid waifu shit(anime tropes/etc) is what saved Fire Emblem since the series was in heavy decline before Awakening came out? (and being on the 3ds*) and my suggestion for an european srpg would then be FF tactics (not any of that advanced crap, just the psx/psp releases) otherwise... eh i dont see anything that has been made recently that'd fit that gap. (Dont remember how long it was since that wii or gamecube fire emblem came out here in the west)

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What am I supposed to say to that? Yeah, men like degrading female designs and women tolerate them to the point where adding degrading female designs to a series that didn't really have many of them can save it from death. Which is kind of depressing, if you ask me.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Whether it is degrading to women is completely subjective. Regardless you have Banner Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics, previous entries of Fire Emblem, Trails in the Sky, and Divinity Original Sin just to name a few.

Also, nice hyperbole.

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Trails in the Sky is medieval Europe now? Have you even played the games?

And repeating "this is subjective" over and over is pretty obnoxious.

In any case, saying "hey play those (mostly old) games instead" when someone wants new games that aren't otaku bait is not helpful.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Have you not played the Tactic Ogre series? Final Fantasy Tactics? Banner Saga? XCOM? Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 1/2? Advanced Wars?

Assuming you are referring to turn-based strategy RPGs, there are plenty out there. Why would one game suddenly shut the door on an entire type of game?

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The vast majority of those involve faceless, player-created units who have no real interaction with one another. Fire Emblem, on the other hand, involves a large and colourful cast of characters, many of who have interlocking personal stories (although those have...diminished in recent games to focus on marriage mechanics).

Morrigan said:

Trails in the Sky is medieval Europe now? Have you even played the games?

And repeating "this is subjective" over and over is pretty obnoxious.

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Yeah, I mean, I adore Trails but there's a very large gap between medieval Europe and the 1930s if the 1930s also had the internet and giant robots and some people still used swords to fight because non-gunpowder firearms aren't lethal and magic is real.

psychowave said:

What am I supposed to say to that? Yeah, men like degrading female designs and women tolerate them to the point where adding degrading female designs to a series that didn't really have many of them can save it from death. Which is kind of depressing, if you ask me.

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Just trying to let you know that the series you grew up with turned into something you didnt/dont like and there is probably no chance it'll change back to the way it was completely. The series had to change in order to survive or it can die. So yeah more or less a depressing statement which has happened to other game series (for me too)
I mean i hate to say it, but game studios will probably make more SRPGs with otaku bait and i dont see that changing (except for NIS should they ever die out... then it'd be one less otaku bait game out) because that niche eats that shit up.

Mesoian said:

I mean, again, saying, "you have all these games that already came out, so it doesn't matter if you're excluded going forward" isn't exactly the best argument here.

What are you supposed to do if you already played those games, but still want to avoid weird Japanese anime tropes going forward? What are you supposed to do if you want Fire Emblem without having to deal with a 12 year old in a thong?

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Well, you could do what I did and kill off the Dragon Loli and never use them or just never use them to begin with. Also, I did list games that are new/recent that they could play. It does suck that design choices could put someone off of a particular franchise that they once enjoyed - but suggesting that those few games suddenly shut them out of an entire genre is just silly.

sensui-tomo said:

Just trying to let you know that the series you grew up with turned into something you didnt/dont like and there is probably no chance it'll change back to the way it was completely. The series had to change in order to survive or it can die. So yeah more or less a depressing statement which has happened to other game series (for me too)

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I know? I've said as much before.

Claus Grimhildyr said:

Whether it is degrading to women is completely subjective. Regardless you have Banner Saga, Final Fantasy Tactics, previous entries of Fire Emblem, Trails in the Sky, and Divinity Original Sin just to name a few.

Also, nice hyperbole.

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Final Fantasy Tactics hasn't had a new game in a decade. The original game came out 20 freaking years ago. Trails in the Sky and Divinity: Original Sin are not strategy RPGs. I don't know how you can simultaneously that there isn't a problem while telling people to switch genres or play games that they probably already played 10 years ago.

sensui-tomo said:

Just trying to let you know that the series you grew up with turned into something you didnt/dont like and there is probably no chance it'll change back to the way it was completely. The series had to change in order to survive or it can die. So yeah more or less a depressing statement which has happened to other game series (for me too)

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Well it just sort of goes back to the idea that games can exclude women who don't want to deal with having to accept the belittling of their gender as a norm.

Like, assuming that all women liked sRPG's and only half of them have a problem with creepy anime bullshit, how are you supposed to stay healthy when you are both a niche genre that actively pushes away 20% of the gaming population?

When did FE start getting sexualized characters in it? In the 3DS games?

sensui-tomo said:

Not to be the damper on what you're saying, but isnt it true that the stupid waifu shit(anime tropes/etc) is what saved Fire Emblem since the series was in heavy decline before Awakening came out? (and being on the 3ds*) and my suggestion for an european srpg would then be FF tactics (not any of that advanced crap, just the psx/psp releases) otherwise... eh i dont see anything that has been made recently that'd fit that gap. (Dont remember how long it was since that wii or gamecube fire emblem came out here in the west)
Also to anyone suggesting Devil Survivor... lets be real we all make fun of the female designs in the game (especially that one main girl in DS2 with the bust that doesnt apply gravity because that artist didnt know how breast work apparently)

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The marriage system certainly helped, but it's not the sole factor in FEAs success. That game also included a ton of other changes to the gameplay and structure of the series that made it far more appealing and welcoming to new comers. It had a fantastic art style and presentation to it which helped a ton. Custom avatar was another huge factor. Lots of new gameplay features and mechanics like Casual Mode on top of the difficulty modes and Partner systems that allowed new players and less serious players to play the game not be overwhelmed by combat or turned off by party deaths. The structure of the game allowing players to grind also helped out a lot. Simply claiming it was waifus that saved it is very reductive and ignores a lot of the major changes and improvements that FEA introduced or incorporated from past games that made FEA and FEF games that appealed to a much larger audience than previous titles.

But even then many women also love the marriage system as much as guys do. So it's not about the waifus and thus pandering female designs, but more so the ability to ship characters and game the system to create uber child soldiers.

Cinemikel said:

Nope, only that Switch in its first year is a more viable platform than the dead Wii and Wii U when XBC and XBX came out

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Not really, the game can do bad just like Fire Emblem Warriors did or do good like other titles, it's not an exact math that all the titles are going to do in the same way.
But at least in the case of Japan, if the game goes much better than the others is because of the guest artists and the fanbase of these buying the game.

Damian Mahadevan said:

That is true. Does this mean that we cant make an assessment whether sexualized character designs sold the game? But at the very least if it doesnt sell over a million we can say it hasnt?

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It could have sold poorly because a huge release from a different system released around the same time, its advertising just wasnt effective enough, the box art didnt attract.

It can sell well despite the majority of its customer base hating the designs because their is literally only one place in the entire industry you can get that kind of world and exploration design and people have been picking up on that....


Very big companies spend lots and lots of money to find out stuff like that. That data, that's the stuff I like getting my hands on.

For medieval strategy games going forward there is Wargroove. I don;t know if there are any RPG elements to it though, and it's clearly more inspired by Advance Wars than Fire Emblem.

The designs of the women they've shown off look pretty great to me.

Mesoian said:

Well it just sort of goes back to the idea that games can exclude women who don't want to deal with having to accept the belittling of their gender as a norm.

Like, assuming that all women liked sRPG's and only half of them have a problem with creepy anime bullshit, how are you supposed to stay healthy when you are both a niche genre that actively pushes away 20% of the gaming population?

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Its why there does need to be a change or have someone new make a srpg(which is a hard sell anyways, to me that is). I'm in agreement that it looks pretty fucking bleak if you want an SRPG that doesnt go full anime. (but at this point i'm just stating the obvious and not really helping the discussion )

Damian Mahadevan said:

When did FE start getting sexualized characters in it? In the 3DS games?

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I think you can find sexualized designs in every game in the series, but the 3DS games is where it got really bad, yes. It was especially jarring because the games that came before Awakening had almost zero sexualization.

kaebie said:

I wrote a long and involved response to the idea that women just need to be more humble (passive and palatable) in these discussions and we'll be taken more seriously (hint: it's some grade A bullshit), but fuck it, I can't be bothered to engage this time. Instead:

To Persephone, and also the other women contributors in this thread and similar ones: I've been intermittently reading this topic, and you got so much unwarranted shit, dumb accusations and nitpicking for even starting this thread, which is almost 5k comments deep and the shit keeps comin'. Even if any of you are just ranting or being 'unhelpful', know that I'm grateful you bother to still show up around these threads and it's always appreciated that you contribute your views. Seriously, this thread has seen a defender of animated child porn, fringe conspiracy theories, people accusing women of not knowing how their own anatomy works, and too many bad-faith arguments to count... woof. I know for a fact many women on this site are rendered too tired or anxious by the sea lioning, derailing and thinly veiled contempt to keep coming back. Thanks for sticking around.

I hope this isn't seen as derailing as that's not my intention... something something Fire Emblem?

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I just wanted to post to say I'm 100% with you. It's frustrating and exhausting. I don't blame you or anyone else for not engaging, because speaking up has a huge stigma. I've been called a crazy feminist bitch more times than I can count both in real life and online. The first time I ever posted a comment online, I got a PM calling me a cunt. And those responses never had anything to do with how "nice" I was.

Laiza said:

swear I would be so happy if a bunch of designers suddenly got the epiphany that female characters don't necessarily need to be presented as feminine all the time. Like, geeze. It's so important to some of these guys that they will literally prioritize femininity over any other aspect of the character, and then we're left wondering why 3/4 of an ensemble cast is generically sexy women who are virtually interchangeable...

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I honestly the idea that they need to point that the character have breasts so the player recognize her as a woman is insulting even as a man. It's like they treat us as idiots that can't recognize shit.

Morrigan said:

Yeah!

...Funnily enough you DO sometimes spot differences between male and female versions of the same outfits. But they are minor, and almost never really gendered. Just mild stylistic differences. For example:

One of the biggest difference in genders is the Pyromancer outfit, it's completely different from male to female, and yet... it's not remotely sexualized or needlessly "feminized". It's just... different (I actually prefer the female version on the right, it looks nicer, though it's a bit of a misnomer because of the outfit is called the "tattered" set xD):

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If we add Bloodborne, the Yarhnam hunter garb does a similar thing.



I think the X belt thingies on the male version looks pretty bad so I like the female version more lol

At the end, I think it's cool that a couple of sets are more different, but I think it's for the better that they overall use the same designs.

Morrigan said:

Trails in the Sky is medieval Europe now? Have you even played the games?

And repeating "this is subjective" over and over is pretty obnoxious.

In any case, saying "hey play those (mostly old) games instead" when someone wants new games that aren't otaku bait is not helpful.

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I have, but admittedly that was when it released back in 2004. Apologies if my memory is not the greatest. I remember it having medieval elements and european building designs with turn-based strategy elements in combat.

I did list new games.

As for the "this is subjective" thing - I will continue to do that when I feel it is appropriate.