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WhovianGamer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,033
All of these points would be great but I don't think the we will have a plot about only the Doctor/the problem. With the way Chibnall is creating a writer's room and having more than a single companion, I feel like he's going to focus on the group dynamics and the personal lives of the companions more.

I'd expect him to explore group dynamics and show character development from weakness to strength, but I definitely don't want the companions 'saving the day' regularly or even having the plot focus on their background. That has been done to death with Rose, River, Clara etc. It is entirely possible to have a larger TARDIS team but still have great stories. I'd hope he'd know that given he grew up on Classic Who.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,866
Pretty much. Personally I think he's mad if Jamie Mathieson and Sarah Dollard aren't in it. Mathieson apparently has tens of great ideas for episodes already and Dollard has been good so far. Personally I'd have had Gatiss in there too. I know he's not everyone's favourite writer, but his episodes are at least interesting and he does try new things on the odd occasion. Additionally, he knows Who inside and out.

I think Gatiss is still a little too much in the Moffat frame of mind as far as writers go. Dollard and Mathieson should absolutely come back, but Gatiss and Moff are pretty much a matched set.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,731
England
Regarding the companion group and the dynamic of a group, I think Moffat's vision of the show put the story as more of The Doctor's story than the story of the companion. The most obvious version of this is found in terms of their introductions... Take, say, the introductions of Rose, Martha and Donna versus those of Amy, Clara and Bill... Rose and Martha are introduced similarly - we meet them, see their job, and the Doctor enters stage left and turns their life upside down. With Donna it's a bit different as she'd been previously introduced, but when she joins the crew in Partners in Crime she spends most of the episode alone, and much of it is seen from her POV as she hunts for the Doctor.

Amy's introduction is interesting because it also introduces a new Doctor, of course, but it's worth noting that the show opens with the Doctor, and it is about him. Largely this is true for Smith's whole run - things happen to Amy and Rory around the fringes of the Doctor's life, but he drives absolutely everything. Clara's a weird one, like Donna, because of the fake-out introductions, but if we look at The Bells of St. John, her actual introduction, it opens with the Doctor again. Here he is - random phone call - who is this woman? In a sense, the situation is flipped compared to Rose and Martha - the companion is the mystery, not the Doctor. Bill is interesting as there's no build-up - she meets the Doctor in scene one - but again, it plays as him being familiar, and that's that.

Part of that is to do with the show being on air for so long... I think it's difficult to act as Series 3 and Series 4 did now, with no pre-titles sequence, playing the first half of the first episode like 'Rose', with the Doctor not the focus.

Anyway, my point is - this is what I think we'll see a bit more of. Back to a group focus, back to a companion focus, hopefully with Jodie as something of a mystery that plays out over time.

I'd expect him to explore group dynamics and show character development from weakness to strength, but I definitely don't want the companions 'saving the day' regularly or even having the plot focus on their background. That has been done to death with Rose, River, Clara etc. It is entirely possible to have a larger TARDIS team but still have great stories. I'd hope he'd know that given he grew up on Classic Who.

We'll see, but I think Chibnall is more likely to be on the RTD end of the scale when it comes to featuring slice-of-life companion stuff than on the Moffat end - and the companions will always get their chance to save the day, because a lot of kids look up to them as much as the Doctor, to be fair.
 

WhovianGamer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,033
I think Gatiss is still a little too much in the Moffat frame of mind as far as writers go. Dollard and Mathieson should absolutely come back, but Gatiss and Moff are pretty much a matched set.

If it was going to be the same as it is now with a single writer per episode I'd agree, but as a voice in a room with an encyclopedic knowledge of Who, who has the potential to add the twists or come at things from a macabre angle, I think it is a loss not to have him. I know he's now writing Dracula with Moffat, but given his diverse writing credits (Who, Sherlock, The League of Gentlemen, Poirot) he would be more of a feather in a writer's room's cap than as an individual episode writer.

The saddest part of a writer's room is that we won't get the one off brilliant episodes from the likes of Gaiman, Richard Curtis etc. Stephen Fry is still very much interested in writing for Doctor Who but that would blow that particular idea out of the water.
 
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Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,627
If no one else has anything planned, I can whip up a quick TUAT OT for the main EtcetEra board if we want it?
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,731
England
Given how well Heaven Sent (and Capaldi in general) went down with regular viewers, that's probably why they chose him!

I don't think this is entirely fair as the show still has great AI figures and good audience figures, and Capaldi is arguably more critically acclaimed than Smith was - but it probably is fair to say that the BBC probably want something more RTD-esque, and I think that's what we'll get. The main thing I'm curious about now is the format of the show, and I'm sure they'll talk about this in the new year - if they're going to do something more or less serialized than we've seen before in the modern show.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
*HEAVEN SENT AI SCORE CLARIFICATION KLAXON*

Heaven Sent's AI score was due to a significant intergenerational disparity - it wasn't a case of casuals vs hardcore but Millenials vs Babyboomers.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
From memory it got 89 among the Millenial-ish demographic, just a bit under the overall all-time high score of 91 for... Journey's End? Pretty tepid among the middle demographic and then the oldies though it was proper Love and Monsters-tier shit.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,731
England
The hardcore are usually wrong in that sense anyway, in that the highest-ever score for the show goes jointly to The Stolen Earth & Journey's End (both 91), episodes a lot of fans consider self-indulgent and wanky. And, of course, the ratings record (post the 70s, anyway) is held by Voyage of the Damned, which is also wildly hated by fans (and imo, wrongly - it's just a silly, fun romp)

It's one of those funny things though, where I think if you never listen to the fans you'll see the AI/ratings crumple over time, because they do hold the show and its creators to a general quality level across the board. But you need to break free of their considerations often around that, because when you do... it leads to those episodes.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
I think Moffat/Capaldi have had the best streak of Christmas specials. Last Christmas was a great story with some wonderful character moments for the Doctor and Clara's relationship; Husbands of River Song was an okay story lifted WAY up by Capaldi and Kingston's incredible chemistry together (which, in one hour, was far more convincing and lovely than any of Smith and Kingston's scenes together, nice as they were) and a touching ending; and Return of Mysterio, while on its face a completely awful sounding idea, was surprisingly fun and charming.

I think the Moffat/Smith Christmas specials are a mixed bag: A Christmas Carol is technically good but this story has honestly done nothing for me; The Doctor, the Widrow, and the Wardrobe has completely slipped from memory so that probably doesn't bode well; The Snowmen is an underrated fun episode, but doesn't have that thing to make it stand out; and The Time of the Doctor has some really powerful scenes but is overall kind of a mess. And RTD's specials are mostly just ok or outright bad, though The Christmas Invasion is a real good one. But Capaldi and Moffat have a real consistent line of quality running through theirs; not a bad one in the bunch.
 

acheron_xl

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,453
MSN, WI
I think someone on Radio Free Skaro had a great idea. Bill should just randomly turn up with Clara, with the implication that Bill & Heather ran into Clara & Me somewhere in deep space.

Regardless, I'll miss Capaldi. I don't think he's the best Doctor (that would be Tom), but he's certainly my favorite.

I think Moffat/Capaldi have had the best streak of Christmas specials. Last Christmas was a great story with some wonderful character moments for the Doctor and Clara's relationship; Husbands of River Song was an okay story lifted WAY up by Capaldi and Kingston's incredible chemistry together (which, in one hour, was far more convincing and lovely than any of Smith and Kingston's scenes together, nice as they were) and a touching ending; and Return of Mysterio, while on its face a completely awful sounding idea, was surprisingly fun and charming.

I think the Moffat/Smith Christmas specials are a mixed bag: A Christmas Carol is technically good but this story has honestly done nothing for me; The Doctor, the Widrow, and the Wardrobe has completely slipped from memory so that probably doesn't bode well; The Snowmen is an underrated fun episode, but doesn't have that thing to make it stand out; and The Time of the Doctor has some really powerful scenes but is overall kind of a mess. And RTD's specials are mostly just ok or outright bad, though The Christmas Invasion is a real good one. But Capaldi and Moffat have a real consistent line of quality running through theirs; not a bad one in the bunch.

Agree 100%. Doctor Mysterio is better than it has any right to be.
 
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M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,261
Wait, I thought they DIDN'T confirm a writers' room and it's possible we're getting the same writing set up we've had so far? Did anyone actually say something to confirm it?

I was strongly contemplating jumping ship from Doctor Who after Moffat left, not necessarily because I'm ride-or-die with Moffat but I just wasn't that enthuased about Chibnall. His Who episodes have been mostly bad (the exception being 42, which I liked), and while I thought Broadchurch s1 was excellent that's balanced out by an awful s2, which was so bad I didn't even bother with s3.

Jodie being the Doctor brought me back onboard for the foreseeable future, but I'm pretty wary about how good the show around is actually going to be.
This was me, too. I had such low expectations for him, especially when the rumors of Kris Marshall being 13 kept growing.

The choice of Whittaker gave me some hope he might end up not being bad at all.
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,713
I honestly wonder sometimes if having a writers room for Doctor Who would be better for the show. More sets of eyes to look at the mediocre to bad episodes and maybe focus on improving those episodes more than a single showrunner has time to do.
 
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Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,627
In principle Chibnall wasn't an exciting choice, but pretty much every decision of his that we know of so far has been intriguing and exciting. I'm happy to see how it goes.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,707
Brazil
Christmas Carol has some of my favorite Smith quotes!

His delivery of "in all my travels I never meet anyone that didn't matter" is god tier
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,711
I'm moving later this week and totally forgot we're so close to Capaldi's departure. Going to be very bittersweet.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,967
Hyped.

Sad for Capaldi to go of course but happy to see, an arguably needed, refresh of Who after this as well.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Whelp, that's the literal end of an era.

I thought it was interesting that...
The Doctor never really seemed to find much of a reason to keep living and the female regeneration almost implicitly seems to be a reaction to that, like he/she is just trying to shake things up.
 

Mr. Sam

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,031
Whelp, that's the literal end of an era.

I thought it was interesting that...
The Doctor never really seemed to find much of a reason to keep living and the female regeneration almost implicitly seems to be a reaction to that, like he/she is just trying to shake things up.

It almost seemed to be a subconscious reaction to the first Doctor's overt sexism, which... yeah...
 

Mario's Nipples

Banned for having an alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
856
France
I absolutely adore Jodie as the Doctor already, and she's only said two words. I thought that was a great episode and an amazing swan song for both Capaldi and Moffat. I loved all the little musical cues. And 'Breaking The Wall' as the regeneration music, while obvious, was lovely.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Big Finish have done their 'release the Christmas special-related boxset early' thing again, so their David Bradley First Doctor Adventures set is up now if you fancy more of 'im.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,731
England
Way better than Smith 's finale. Wonderfully restrained.

Based in the score (and the rumours), that has to be the end of Gold, right? It had a very greatest hits goodbye feel to it...
 

Joqu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,030
The Waffle Kingdom
4-disc Series 9 set is out early next year.

Nice! I really need that clean version of Breaking the Wall.

I hope we manage to catch up before the new stuff starts.

Way better than Smith 's finale. Wonderfully restrained.

Based in the score (and the rumours), that has to be the end of Gold, right? It had a very greatest hits goodbye feel to it...

(Um this is silly but you've always been the doctor who guy to me despite being familiar with some of the stuff you do, this industry tag thing Era does is pretty neat. ...I didn't even realize the you I had been following on twitter was the same person, I uh, must have ignored the handle somehow.)

Anyway, yeah, either I missed the rumours or I forgot about them, but when I heard the score of this episode it really felt like another farewell to me. I'll miss him.
 
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DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,711
I'd rank this as Capaldi's 2nd best Christmas Episode, (and that's only because of that amazing ending of "The Husbands of River Song") and one of the better Christmas Special's overall of New Who.




Let's rank 'em.


1. The Husbands of River Song
2. A Christmas Carol
3. Twice Upon A Time
4. Last Christmas
5. Time of the Doctor
6. The Next Doctor
7. The Snowmen
8. Voyage of the Damned
9. The Christmas Invasion
10. The Return of Doctor Mysterio
11. The End of Time
12. The Runaway Bride
13. The Doctor, The Widow And The Wardrobe
 
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Taki

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,308
I'd rank this as Capaldi's 2nd best Christmas Episode, (and that's only because of that amazing ending of "The Husbands of River Song") and one of the better Christmas Special's overall of New Who.




Let's rank 'em.


1. The Husbands of River Song
2. A Christmas Carol
3. Twice Upon A Time
4. Last Christmas
5. Time of the Doctor
6. The Next Doctor
7. The Snowmen
8. Voyage of the Damned
9. The Christmas Invasion
10. The Return of Doctor Mysterio
11. The End of Time
12. The Runaway Bride
13. The Doctor, The Widow And The Wardrobe

Seeing that there's been thirteen christmas specials already makes me feel very old all of a sudden.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,866
Hopefully it's a tradition that the BBC and Chris Chibnall continue I love getting new Doctor Who on Christmas even if they've been pretty hit or miss.

These specials are the only reason my parents even know what Who is, since I always watch them when I'm at home for the holidays. It's becoming a weird tradition.
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
So uh, where are my Doctor Who soundtracks at.

At this stage I think they are just purposefully teasing us continuing to use that "break the wall" song.

Hopefully it's a tradition that the BBC and Chris Chibnall continue I love getting new Doctor Who on Christmas even if they've been pretty hit or miss.

I cant imagine not doing a xmas episode wont be a thing. They seem like a big part of the Dr Who thing.

I wouldnt mind if they just become more "big finale that take place during Christmas" and less overtly Christmas focused like its gotten recently.
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,713
I cant imagine not doing a xmas episode wont be a thing. They seem like a big part of the Dr Who thing.

I wouldnt mind if they just become more "big finale that take place during Christmas" and less overtly Christmas focused like its gotten recently.

I think we'll probably get a Christmas episode next year but things defiantly feel like they could change way more than the RDT to Moffat transition.
 
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Dwebble

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,627
Ooh, let's see...

1. The Husbands of River Song
2. A Christmas Carol
3. The Runaway Bride
4. The Christmas Invasion
5. The Time of the Doctor
6. Last Christmas
7. The Next Doctor
8. Twice Upon a Time
9. The Snowmen
10. Voyage of the Damned
11. The End of Time
12. The Return of Doctor Mysterio
13. The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
ok, so no boob joke, but a women driver joke from Moffat.

It's fairly well established that regeneration messes with the psychic link between Doctor Who and the TARDIS. Eleven crashes, barely escaping castration as his ship grazes the spire of Big Ben. Twelve's first words to Clara are "Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?" It's unreasonable to read this new post-regeneration scene as a joke about women drivers.

According to the Radio Times that final scene was written by Chris Chibnall.