• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Excuse me if that avatar doesn't exactly inspire a lot of faith about you not finding something to discredit or otherwise disbelieve any studies that don't align with your exact world view.

I know you're not supposed to talk about it (avatar discrimination!!! not all anime avatars!!!!!!), but I automatically roll my eyes whenever I get a notification from an anime avatar on this thread (or any thread that deals with social justice issues). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(to clarify: I mean moe anime girl avatars. damn, I ended up "not all anime avatars"-ing myself)
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
That's a pretty shitty thing to say...

It also aligns pretty closely to my past experience with people asking for studies that they've never bothered to look for themselves. Should I pretend that I'm filled with conviction about how the studies posted in the thread will turn him around 180?

I mean, if I posted in a dog thread how I'm willing to listen to any studies that show that dogs are better than cats and that I will change my opinion if there are any, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely would you be to believe me? :)
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Only for 48 hours, though.
BTW, looking at his post history (to see what he was banned for and how long), the most ironic thing is that it's nothing but attacks on people that critique socially regressive elements in games (fanservice, Catherine's controversy, etc.). It cracks me up so much how the same dudes crying about angry feminists and "outrage culture" are the very same ones that seem to spend their entire lives salty and butthurt about it. :D


10837.jpg

Excuse me if that avatar doesn't exactly inspire a lot of faith about you not finding something to discredit or otherwise disbelieve any studies that don't align with your exact world view.

Avatar quote me all you want. I don't care

I only asked for the links because this topic is 165 pages and I'm not wading through all them to find it, I checked the OP
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,563
Everyone has positive and negative views about pretty much anything. If something reaffirms your negative views about something while not reinforcing (or, most likely, weakening) your positive views, I believe the result is clear.

Yeah I disagree. I don't consider the game the problem because some idiot sees it as confirmation for his sexist shitty view on women.

The problem is the person with shitty views irl not a game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Excuse me if that avatar doesn't exactly inspire a lot of faith about you not finding something to discredit or otherwise disbelieve any studies that don't align with your exact world view.
Valkyr has been active in the thread for a long time and more than willing to engage in good faith, even if I don't necessarily agree with him on everything. I just spent a bunch of time digging through old threads and lunch break's over now so I can't find the post myself, but it's not a drive-by.

Personally I think it's a lot easier to argue the Basic Empathy angle because most people will eventually come around on it in some capacity. I don't even necessarily need people to agree on this stuff, just to recognize that the criticism is as valid as any and not something to be shouted down. People who like the things being criticized should also talk about liking it. Creators will do what they will with the information they're given.

As a passionate fan of clowns, clown media, and clown merchandise, I really think there ought to be a place in my hobby for people who aren't clown enthusiasts--even those who are repulsed by clowns. I like to share the things I like with other people, after all. Especially since some of the genres that are most packed with superfluous clownery are the genres statistically most enjoyed by those who aren't fans of clowns.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,231
Singapore
It also aligns pretty closely to my past experience with people asking for studies that they've never bothered to look for themselves. Should I pretend that I'm filled with conviction about how the studies posted in the thread will turn him around 180?
But it's also fair to say that a lot of studies of all sort are done and not all are definitive or particularly noteworthy. People don't usually bother going out looking for studies themselves. Those who want to argue a point are expected to provide the information and explain why it is of importance. If you're not interested in detailing the information why bring it up at all?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Can someone re post those studies? I'd like to see the information to back up these claims and will happily change my stance if they seem legitimate

Hey, can you acknowledge my explanation as to why you can't play DoAX3 without importing it?

Seriously, DoAX3 being brought it up is a huge pet peeve of mine, because rather than being evidence of the harm done by critics of video game media, it's evidence of the harm to women, where both Play-Asia and a now-fired KT representative played up the notion of it not being released in the US due to pressures in order to trick people into importing it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Yeah I disagree. I don't consider the game the problem at all because some idiot sees it as confirmation for his sexist shitty view on women.

Yeah, no, that's a textbox "no true Scotsman". "Sexism in videogames is not a problem because it only affects idiots" "Who are idiots?" "Well, people affected by sexist in videogames, obviously".
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Because after the last two games, they decided that not enough people bought their games. Before any nonsense about feminism scaring away Koei Tecmo, KT said in plain language that the series was not successful enough to justify localizing the third game.

KT's non-localization has nothing to do with people hating it and everything to do with no one caring about it.

With the low cost of digital storefront placement is that really a concern if there is atleast some audience?

I don't have sales figures for the series but I assumed mild success for a niche game was the result

In other words, what would the cost or localization be, and the doa name doesn't have enough weight to recoup? Maybe your right but seems unlikely. There isn't THAT much dialogue in those games
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
But it's also fair to say that a lot of studies of all sort are done and not all are definitive or particularly noteworthy. People don't usually bother going out looking for studies themselves. Those who want to argue a point are expected to provide the information and explain why it is of importance. If you're not interested in detailing the information why bring it up at all?

Because I'm frankly pretty tired of people asking for proof and ignoring every bit of it when it's provided because it doesn't suit their world views; which is a very human thing to do, to be fair, but no less tiring for those providing the proof. But hey, feel free to feel superior because you gave the benefit of the doubt to someone with a Quiet avatar in a thread 83 pages long that's half shitposting and drive-by, and I didn't.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
With the low cost of digital storefront placement is that really a concern if there is atleast some audience?

I don't have sales figures for the series but I assumed mild success for a niche game was the result

In other words, what would the cost or localization be, and the doa name doesn't have enough weight to recoup? Maybe your right but seems unlikely. There isn't THAT much dialogue in those games
Often it's less a concern of the specific monetary costs of localization and more a concern of manpower. There's only so many staff you can dedicate to localizing things at a given time and so many firms that you can outsource to whether because of business relationships, policy, or just the limit on actual competent people to do the job. Sometimes it's determined not that money would be lost in a literal sense, but that the opportunity cost of localizing it is too high. It isn't worth the theoretical loss--ie., time that could be spent on things that'd make more money.

That's why niche titles that come from big publishers with lots of clout fall through the cracks far more often than the really weird stuff that tiny publishers who presumably operate very close to a loss just for the passion of it pick up.

After Marvelous's own stuff, the only question Xseed has to ask for side games is "can we get the license at a cost that we'd come out making money?," whereas Bamco or KT also have the "Which of the other dozen games we have immediate access to would these resources be better spent on?"

That's a little reductive, but you get the point.

That's also why every once in a while a weird miracle happens and you see Bamco do something like cede Summon Night to Gaijinworks. Vic figured he could make a profit, but Bamco was never going to want to allocate those resources so they were willing to let go of it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
With the low cost of digital storefront placement is that really a concern if there is atleast some audience?

I don't have sales figures for the series but I assumed mild success for a niche game was the result

In other words, what would the cost or localization be, and the doa name doesn't have enough weight to recoup? Maybe your right but seems unlikely. There isn't THAT much dialogue in those games

Koei-Tecmo itself said as much, that there is not a market for this game. This was about a year ago before Play-Asia manipulated people into thinking it was a feminist conspiracy that prevented its release.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Koei-Tecmo itself said as much, that there is not a market for this game. This was about a year ago before Play-Asia manipulated people into thinking it was a feminist conspiracy that prevented its release.

Well then I guess that's that. I don't know about the play Asia "thing"

I never thought it was a legit conspiracy.. but I did believe with the changing marketplace they could have assessed a product like that would be more problematic in the US than in native Japan, so not worth the headache, which I don't see as an unreasonable assumption
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,563
Yeah, no, that's a textbox "no true Scotsman". "Sexism in videogames is not a problem because it only affects idiots" "Who are idiots?" "Well, people affected by sexist in videogames, obviously".

But the person already has those shitty views. The game isn't changing anything nor will that person seek out games with realistic positive portrayals of women as he probably isn't interested in something like this and thinks its "pandering to feminazis" or some shit.

Nothing would change for that person if the game doesn't exist. He isn't suddenly a better person

I simply don't consider a game with fanservice to be harmful in the sense that it is causing people to suddenly have negative views towards women.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,231
Singapore
Because I'm frankly pretty tired of people asking for proof and ignoring every bit of it when it's provided because it doesn't suit their world views; which is a very human thing to do, to be fair, but no less tiring for those providing the proof. But hey, feel free to feel superior because you gave the benefit of the doubt to someone with a Quiet avatar in a thread 83 pages long that's half shitposting and drive-by, and I didn't.
So why bother posting in this thread at all? If you are so tired of it you don't want to engage anymore, what do you have to add to the thread other than being aggressively rude and making us look bad? Serious question.
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,435
But the person already has those shitty views. The game isn't changing anything nor will that person seek out games with realistic positive portrayals of women as he probably isn't interested in something like this and thinks its "pandering to feminazis" or some shit.

Nothing would change for that person if the game doesn't exist. He isn't suddenly a better person

I simply don't consider a game with fanservice to be harmful in the sense that it is causing people to suddenly have negative views towards women.
That assumes there are only two true sides of where you stand. There could be people with developing views on the issue that could be swayed to the wrong side by continuing pervasive objectification in the media.
 

incogneato

Self Requested Ban
Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,119
Valkyr has been active in the thread for a long time and more than willing to engage in good faith, even if I don't necessarily agree with him on everything. I just spent a bunch of time digging through old threads and lunch break's over now so I can't find the post myself, but it's not a drive-by.

Personally I think it's a lot easier to argue the Basic Empathy angle because most people will eventually come around on it in some capacity. I don't even necessarily need people to agree on this stuff, just to recognize that the criticism is as valid as any and not something to be shouted down. People who like the things being criticized should also talk about liking it. Creators will do what they will with the information they're given.

As a passionate fan of clowns, clown media, and clown merchandise, I really think there ought to be a place in my hobby for people who aren't clown enthusiasts--even those who are repulsed by clowns. I like to share the things I like with other people, after all. Especially since some of the genres that are most packed with superfluous clownery are the genres statistically most enjoyed by those who aren't fans of clowns.
I think we should drop the entire clown analogy entirely because it does a disservice to the complex discussion on hypersexualized design that veers on misogynist and damning representations of women. Hypersexualization can take on more subliminal and therefore insidious symbols. Clowns are not close to even metaphorically representing the human condition and how it is intertwined with sexuality because the former is purely visual.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
The double member plague has been spreading. I'm seeing it everywhere now.
I think we should drop the entire clown analogy entirely because it does a disservice to the complex discussion on hypersexualized design that veers on misogynist and damning representations of women. Hypersexualization can take on more subliminal and therefore insidious symbols. Clowns are not close to even metaphorically representing the human condition and how it is intertwined with sexuality because the former is purely visual.
You have a fair point.

I still think it's purposeful though, in the sense that it's an extra layer of detachment to help draw attention to how ridiculous it should be that this entire argument has gone on for so long.

We exist in a position where many of the people we most desperately need to reach don't even notice there's a problem from any angle and think we're insane. There's no short supply of folks who've mentioned that they've never even noticed the kinds of things we've persistently criticized in this thread, and not all of them are operating with insidious intent. Because our culture has so heavily normalized the female form as a commodity, I feel that extra layer of detachment can sometimes be helpful to draw attention to how different it feels when it's not something that you're totally desensitized to and that panders to you directly anyway.

If people weren't literally blind to the issue this'd be a really damned easy conversation to have. Instead we generally need to start with a call for empathy and then start chipping away from there once that's been achieved.

There's a lot of room to pick apart the specific ways in which modern society has helped to normalize this kind of stuff to get us to that point too, and I like doing it, but it's an extremely dense conversational topic that doesn't necessarily serve as an eye opener for people who are still struggling to see what the problem even is. That's why I tend to lapse into "If This Were About Clowns, Though" and similar analogies when the thread is less focused on meta discussion between the regulars and more on engaging less regular or new posters.

I don't expect everyone to agree with that sentiment of course--like I said, you have a point yourself.

Edit: Plus from a more juvenile perspective I just like imagining games full of clowns carrying around bouncing balloons and mimes...miming all over the place. They're not an active representation of more serious problems with society but they sure are silly to think about. Honk honk.
 
Last edited:

Luap

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,895
Watching XC2 get roundly shit on in this thread has been highly amusing:

Dumbest character designs from 2017

And I say that as a big fan of the original Xenoblade Chronicles. I don't know what the hell happened at Monolith Soft between the first XC and this one, but man they really lost their way (when it comes to character design - I can't comment on the story/gameplay since I haven't played it).
 

incogneato

Self Requested Ban
Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,119
You have a fair point.

I still think it's purposeful though, in the sense that it's an extra layer of detachment to help draw attention to how ridiculous it should be that this entire argument has gone on for so long.

We exist in a position where many of the people we most desperately need to reach don't even notice there's a problem from any angle and think we're insane. There's no short supply of folks who've mentioned that they've never even noticed the kinds of things we've persistently criticized in this thread, and not all of them are operating with insidious intent. Because our culture has so heavily normalized the female form as a commodity, I feel that extra layer of detachment can sometimes be helpful to draw attention to how different it feels when it's not something that you're totally desensitized to and that panders to you directly anyway.

If people weren't literally blind to the issue this'd be a really damned easy conversation to have. Instead we generally need to start with a call for empathy and then start chipping away from there once that's been achieved.

There's a lot of room to pick apart the specific ways in which modern society has helped to normalize this kind of stuff to get us to that point too, and I like doing it, but it's an extremely dense conversational topic that doesn't necessarily serve as an eye opener for people who are still struggling to see what the problem even is. That's why I tend to lapse into "If This Were About Clowns, Though" and similar analogies when the thread is less focused on meta discussion between the regulars and more on engaging less regular or new posters.

I don't expect everyone to agree with that sentiment of course--like I said, you have a point yourself.
Ah I see now. I understand the reasoning for using the clown analogy, but I fear that those that want to get into this thread with the intent to learn will think that purely designing respectful visual design is the end-be-all for equitable representation in the gaming industry. One common example that I can think of from the top of my head is the legalization of same-sex marriage in the United States. Many allies and, anecdotally, LGB+ (I removed trans because their struggles are unique and same-sex marriage does not directly address their specific struggles) identifying individuals have started focusing their efforts outside of LGBT+ legislation purely because same-sex marriage was the easiest market approach in allowing LGB+ peoples the ability to win the culture war.

People believe that LGB+ struggles are now "over" because of the legalization of same-sex marriage, but it is far from it. On a similar note, once we have enough to people designing respectable female character designs, I fear many would also think the battle against misogyny in the gaming industry would also be "over."

I understand that we need to start simple to allow more potential allies the ability to participate alongside us towards more equitable representation, but hopefully we can go further and help people understand more complex, intersecting systems of discriminations and, more specifically, misogyny that women have to face in the gaming industry.
 

flare

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,306
Also, for good measure, because it wasn't me but dammit it's a good post.

Personally I think it'd be healthier to look inward and maybe find the realization that maybe it'd be okay to have a few less clowns sometimes--not none, mind--but we can do the other dance too.

That clown post is amazing. Thanks for bringing it up.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Watching XC2 get roundly shit on in this thread has been highly amusing:

Dumbest character designs from 2017

And I say that as a big fan of the original Xenoblade Chronicles. I don't know what the hell happened at Monolith Soft between the first XC and this one, but man they really lost their way (when it comes to character design - I can't comment on the story/gameplay since I haven't played it).

I never played any Xenoblade games, but from an outsider's perspective it definitely seems like Monolith went progressively down the animu fanservice rabbit hole as the series progressed. The original Xenoblade Chronicles just seemed like your usual fantasy JRPG with (imo) overdesigned, but ultimately harmless characters. Xenoblade Chronicles X raised some eyebrows with the tiddy meters and the whole "little girls in swimsuits" thing. And from what I'm seeing on this thread, XC2 seems like it's trying to emulate as many tired tropes from mediocre fanservice anime as it possibly can. Like, it almost seems like they had bets going to see how many animu tropes they could cram in there. I wonder what the hell happened.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,231
Singapore
I never played any Xenoblade games, but from an outsider's perspective it definitely seems like Monolith went progressively down the animu fanservice rabbit hole as the series progressed. The original Xenoblade Chronicles just seemed like your usual fantasy JRPG with (imo) overdesigned, but ultimately harmless characters. Xenoblade Chronicles X raised some eyebrows with the tiddy meters and the whole "little girls in swimsuits" thing. And from what I'm seeing on this thread, XC2 seems like it's trying to emulate as many tired tropes from mediocre fanservice anime as it possibly can. Like, it almost seems like they had bets going to see how many animu tropes they could cram in there. I wonder what the hell happened.
Monolithsoft made more than just Xenoblade all their careers. Xenosaga was a spiritual successor to Xenogears and it was anime as fuck. Xenogears as anime as fuck. You might not like it, whatever, but it's more like they're going back to their true roots instead of making stuff they're not that great at. The decision paid off because finally they have the most expressive and animated cutscenes in their studio's history.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
I understand that we need to start simple to allow more potential allies the ability to participate alongside us towards more equitable representation, but hopefully we can go further and help people understand more complex, intersecting systems of discriminations and, more specifically, misogyny that women have to face in the gaming industry.
Yeah, I hope so too. The thread goes in the same circles again and again but I do like to think (and people have chimed in to substantiate) that the more nuanced meta discussions we have inbetween have been useful to them in learning about this kind of stuff. Plus those discussions are just really interesting, and they seem to be generally "safer" hidden inside a long, impenetrable thread like this than they have been out in the wild in the past.
I never played any Xenoblade games, but from an outsider's perspective it definitely seems like Monolith went progressively down the animu fanservice rabbit hole as the series progressed. The original Xenoblade Chronicles just seemed like your usual fantasy JRPG with (imo) overdesigned, but ultimately harmless characters. Xenoblade Chronicles X raised some eyebrows with the tiddy meters and the whole "little girls in swimsuits" thing. And from what I'm seeing on this thread, XC2 seems like it's trying to emulate as many tired tropes from mediocre fanservice anime as it possibly can. Like, it almost seems like they had bets going to see how many animu tropes they could cram in there. I wonder what the hell happened.
The original had art staff that Takahashi has worked with over the years, and X had a lot of the same staff--I'd hypothesize that most of the increased Anime there was as a result of the shift from fantasy to more overt sci-fi and the visual tropes involved in Japanese sci-fi. Which is to say, there probably wasn't really a conscious decision to sex up the designs, but there's a long genre history of the kind of visuals at play in X.

With Xenoblade 2 it's far funnier though. Takahashi watched Expelled From Paradise (Rakuen Tsuihou), a film that premiered around the time XB2 went into production. The character designer did the game's lead cast's designs, the mech designer did the game's mech designs, and the narrative is about a group of people who were uh. Literally expelled from Paradise (In JP Rakuen, in the EN loc Elysium). And are seeking it again.

Mythra, one of the main duo of heroines, is literally a direct expy of the protagonist of the film, Angela Balzac. Same color scheme visually and everything.

It's literally that superficial.

That's the reason.

Seriously.

He liked a movie.

I mean it's not like I know that for a fact but look at it.
Monolithsoft made more than just Xenoblade all their careers. Xenosaga was a spiritual successor to Xenogears and it was anime as fuck. Xenogears as anime as fuck. You might not like it, whatever, but it's more like they're going back to their true roots instead of making stuff they're not that great at. The decision paid off because finally they have the most expressive and animated cutscenes in their studio's history.
Also yes, Masatsugu Saito's designs really do transition incredibly well to animation (which previous Xenoblade games had an issue with). He's known for it, and Expelled From Paradise was a 3D film, so.

Duckroll's answer is less flippant than mine.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2099

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
658
Why can't I play most video games without being reminded that most men see me as a walking hole to put their dicks in instead of as an actual person? :^)

You realize video games are largely made by men, and as such are a representation of men's wishes and what they want to see? You realize characters like Quiet or Cindy represent men's desires to have sexualized women everywhere, even when it makes no fucking sense for them to be there?

Also, are you a woman? Because if you aren't maybe don't talk about what it feels like to be one.

Thank you! There are many video games out there that make me wince when it comes to female characters, how they are presented and represented. I play games to escape the reality of how women are seen just to be tossed right back into it. There are games that I have stopped playing once and for all due to female characters. The closest and most recent case example of this for me is League of Legend. I use to play that game a lot with my brother and because I was having fun with him playing against the other team together, I was able to somewhat ignore the female champions with how they look and even behave. I dropped the game four years ago but in this case, it was because I was burnt out on MOBAs and played them enough, so I can focus on other games like my backlog at that time. However, yesterday, I was at my SO's house and he had me watch him play LoL, which was fine, whatever, I don't mind spectating a game being played, they can be relaxing and/or entertaining. But what disturbed me and well for a lack of better words, turned me off about it was how I got reminded of the female champions portrayal. I saw that he has all of Miss Fortune's skins and ugh they are all so horrible, it's very obvious what they were aiming for with her. When I came home, I decided to look up skins for every character and the same can be said among most other female champions as well. It leaves me questioning things, regarding video games as a whole if it's really worth continuing/attempting to enjoy with how my gender is always used for this kind of bull and regarding... other things about him, my SO.
 
Last edited:

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
MAN I missed a doozy. So, apparently these fools honestly think critique is the exact same thing as censorship, huh? How utter pathetic.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
I never played any Xenoblade games, but from an outsider's perspective it definitely seems like Monolith went progressively down the animu fanservice rabbit hole as the series progressed. The original Xenoblade Chronicles just seemed like your usual fantasy JRPG with (imo) overdesigned, but ultimately harmless characters. Xenoblade Chronicles X raised some eyebrows with the tiddy meters and the whole "little girls in swimsuits" thing. And from what I'm seeing on this thread, XC2 seems like it's trying to emulate as many tired tropes from mediocre fanservice anime as it possibly can. Like, it almost seems like they had bets going to see how many animu tropes they could cram in there. I wonder what the hell happened.

As someone who has kept up with the series, I'd agree with this. At least with XCX, the questionable stuff wasn't front and center like Pyra and the Blades (there's also that shapeshifting race of all women in X that wear BDSM outfits in their true forms, but again not front and center at all). I really thought being able to dress your characters with a variety of clothes both tasteful and outlandish would become the standard since it was a step up from the armor designs in the first Xenoblade. It's so weird to see them completely drop it in XC2.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Monolithsoft made more than just Xenoblade all their careers. Xenosaga was a spiritual successor to Xenogears and it was anime as fuck. Xenogears as anime as fuck. You might not like it, whatever, but it's more like they're going back to their true roots instead of making stuff they're not that great at. The decision paid off because finally they have the most expressive and animated cutscenes in their studio's history.
I still have a hard time viewing it as a return to form, but I also have never been a fan of pretty much any of the Xeno-related stuff (I've played about half of it). I'd say it's always been pretty consistent, but the best I could say about any entry is that it's inoffensive, versus other entries which are... well, markedly offensive.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Thank you! There are many video games out there that make me wince when it comes to female characters, how they are presented and represented. I play games to escape the reality of how women are seen just to be tossed right back into it. There are games that I have stopped playing once and for all due to female characters. The closest and most recent case example of this for me is League of Legend. I use to play that game a lot with my brother and because I was having fun with him playing against the other team together, I was able to somewhat ignore the female champions with how they look and even behave. I dropped the game four years ago but in this case, it was because I was burnt out on MOBAs and played them enough, so I can focus on other games like my backlog at that time. However, yesterday, I was at my SO's house and he had me watch him play LoL, which was fine, whatever, I don't mind spectating a game being played, they can be relaxing and/or entertaining. But what disturbed me and well for a lack of better words, turned me off about it was how I got reminded of the female champions portrayal. I saw that he has all of Miss Fortune's skins and ugh they are all so horrible, it's very obvious what they were aiming for with her. When I came home, I decided to look up skins for every character and the same can be said among most other female champions as well. It leaves me questioning things, regarding video games as a whole if it's really worth continuing/attempting to enjoy with how my gender is always used for this kind of bull and regarding... other things.

I completely understand how you feel. Every single day I get home after a full day of dealing with misogyny among my peers, my family, the news or ads, and I just wanna sink in bed and play a game and forget about it all.

And then I actually try to play a game, and see the way women are portrayed, and I remember that video games don't want me to feel safe, either.
 

Deleted member 2099

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
658
I completely understand how you feel. Every single day I get home after a full day of dealing with misogyny among my peers, my family, the news or ads, and I just wanna sink in bed and play a game and forget about it all.

And then I actually try to play a game, and see the way women are portrayed, and I remember that video games don't want me to feel safe, either.
That's exactly how I feel too. There's a reason why I like male characters better, and that is because for the most part, they are taken more seriously. Their roles have serious impact in the games they are starred/featured in and they are overall behaved as well as dressed seriously. Female characters? The opposite.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,403
^ That reminds me. I'm probably going to make a male hunter in MH World because the female armours look so stupid and off-putting.

If I do that... it'll be the first time I ever choose a male character over female (unless it's a 2nd or 3rd character, like in Souls games where I make several) with a character creator. The game doesn't motivate me to play as my own gender. :(
 

Deleted member 2099

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
658
^ That reminds me. I'm probably going to make a male hunter in MH World because the female armours look so stupid and off-putting.

If I do that... it'll be the first time I ever choose a male character over female (unless it's a 2nd or 3rd character, like in Souls games where I make several) with a character creator. The game doesn't motivate me to play as my own gender. :(
Same, although, I have considered that if I make a female character after all in Monster Hunter, that her name should be... NeedNoMan, as a form of mockery to all the single ladies--- I mean female protagonists in other games, that are either always lonely as heck/not interested in men to appear single for the you know whos, or lesbian, though this isn't to take it I am against those people/communities that are LGBT. Lol.

I could however just skip to the chase and join in on making a male character with you, Morrigan. We in this together!
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
^ That reminds me. I'm probably going to make a male hunter in MH World because the female armours look so stupid and off-putting.

If I do that... it'll be the first time I ever choose a male character over female (unless it's a 2nd or 3rd character, like in Souls games where I make several) with a character creator. The game doesn't motivate me to play as my own gender. :(

There was one armour set that I liked. I think it was called Ingot? Admittedly I never touched the male armour sets so I don't know how it compares. I thought the feathery one was the most ridiculous.
 

MEGrika

Member
Oct 25, 2017
496
^ That reminds me. I'm probably going to make a male hunter in MH World because the female armours look so stupid and off-putting.

If I do that... it'll be the first time I ever choose a male character over female (unless it's a 2nd or 3rd character, like in Souls games where I make several) with a character creator. The game doesn't motivate me to play as my own gender. :(

They haven't confirmed it but there is hope of an actual transmog system in place in World that lets us wear what set we like. The deluxe edition includes an outfit that is just for looks you can put on top of your actual armor.

MH has had a lot of gross armor designs for women but they aren't all terrible so I'm just praying I can wear what I want.
 

Typhon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,122
Yeeah, people really have hard time of grasping the meaning of censorship. This is about giving feedback and hoping that devs would listen. Not trying to enforce anything. Nobody is asking for blurs over cameltoes or something, just wishing that the characters would be designed without those to begin with.

That's not everyone's attitude here.

I think gratutious violence should be banned in entertainment across the board, honestly. Like the studies you've posted StonedCrows, there's nothing redeeming about sensationalizing and profitting off of extreme violent imagery. Even though The Last of Us 2 gets a lot of things right, the gratuitously violent images on display in the recent trailer is not pleasantly tactful nor tasteful
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
So why bother posting in this thread at all? If you are so tired of it you don't want to engage anymore, what do you have to add to the thread other than being aggressively rude and making us look bad? Serious question.

Making who look bad, exactly? Because I sure as hell haven't seen you in this thread until now, let alone contribute anything but tone policing.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,608
So why bother posting in this thread at all? If you are so tired of it you don't want to engage anymore, what do you have to add to the thread other than being aggressively rude and making us look bad? Serious question.
Who is "us"? Because Weltall has been contributing very positively to this particular thread, and I don't think he has made anyone look bad.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I completely understand how you feel. Every single day I get home after a full day of dealing with misogyny among my peers, my family, the news or ads, and I just wanna sink in bed and play a game and forget about it all.

And then I actually try to play a game, and see the way women are portrayed, and I remember that video games don't want me to feel safe, either.

I'm going to quote this post every time someone makes the shitty "videogames are meant to be escapism!" argument. I mean, as if white males were the ones that needed to escape the most.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
Happy Holidays, here's a bunch of asshole posts about how criticism is the same as censorship and also fuck you for wanting to take away my anime tits.

More of the same, I guess.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.