Hearthstone |OT1| New Era, Same Meta

Mobius and Pet Octopus · Apr 6, 2018

They've already clarified a lot about tess:

No battlecries, just like n'zoth
random ordering, just like lynessa (is supposed to be)
if you play an opponent's deathknight to change your class (ie. you play thrall), tess will then replay all your rogue cards (and any other non-shaman cards)

What hasn't been clarified to my knowledge:
If you play valeera DK and then play thrall DK and toss down tess, eventually valeera DK gets played... will it stop playing rogue cards and start playing thrall DK cards, and if so will it play thrall DK switching you back to shaman, and so on... (presumably there is a hard limit to the cards played).

Wiibomb · Apr 6, 2018

greepoman said:
Ummm so how do you live til turn 8 to play this if you play a bunch of random cards...just hope some of the cards save you? You're gonna have to play the rogue tempo cards but then you're not playing random cards for this 8 drop. Just don't think there's enough consistency with random cards from other classes...need more discover from opponents class cards.

Before the year of the mammoth, on the year of the kraken there was actually a burgle deck that could survive, it wasn't a tier 1 deck, more like a tier 2 or 3, but it was a lot of fun and it could survive a bit.

This might have more potential than it appears to have.

Also, not playing the battlecries makes it better imo. Since the targets would be random, dealing damage to your board or buffing your enemies is very dangerous, it's better to just summon the bodies and take avantage of any potential deathrattle.

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 6, 2018

Mobius and Pet Octopus said:
They've already clarified a lot about tess:

No battlecries, just like n'zoth
random ordering, just like lynessa (is supposed to be)
if you play an opponent's deathknight to change your class (ie. you play thrall), tess will then replay all your rogue cards (and any other non-shaman cards)

What hasn't been clarified to my knowledge:
If you play valeera DK and then play thrall DK and toss down tess, eventually valeera DK gets played... will it stop playing rogue cards and start playing thrall DK cards, and if so will it play thrall DK switching you back to shaman, and so on... (presumably there is a hard limit to the cards played).

Huh, that's interesting actually.

greepoman · Apr 6, 2018

Wiibomb said:
Before the year of the mammoth, on the year of the kraken there was actually a burgle deck that could survive, it wasn't a tier 1 deck, more like a tier 2 or 3, but it was a lot of fun and it could survive a bit.

This might have more potential than it appears to have.
.

Yeah but the power levels have increased greatly. Rogue can really struggle against call to arms. I guess just hope some other class keeps pally out of the meta. Hunter could be hard for rogue too.

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 6, 2018

the only way I feel alive in hearthstone anymore is by using the rod of roasting in dungeon runs

the adrenaline I get is *chefs kiss*

squidyj · Apr 6, 2018

Mobius and Pet Octopus said:
They've already clarified a lot about tess:

No battlecries, just like n'zoth
random ordering, just like lynessa (is supposed to be)
if you play an opponent's deathknight to change your class (ie. you play thrall), tess will then replay all your rogue cards (and any other non-shaman cards)

What hasn't been clarified to my knowledge:
If you play valeera DK and then play thrall DK and toss down tess, eventually valeera DK gets played... will it stop playing rogue cards and start playing thrall DK cards, and if so will it play thrall DK switching you back to shaman, and so on... (presumably there is a hard limit to the cards played).

I think the sanest assumption is that it considers your class when played and stops worrying after that point, so if you're a shaman dk itll just pump out rogue cards even if it switches you back.

BananasWithGuns · Apr 7, 2018

Helot_Azure · Apr 7, 2018

Disappointing. Don't know where this push for minion mage is coming from.

Minthara · Apr 7, 2018

That minion + the spellbook from earlier is going to allow quest mage to find all their minions that they need so much faster its not funny.

I do hope it makes elemental mage kinda viable, thats been my favorite possible non-functioning archtype since Jaina has been revealed.

Nachos · Apr 7, 2018

BananasWithGuns said:

Good interaction with Leyline Manipulator.

Cvie · Apr 7, 2018

this card would could make for some crazy combos with the countess

squidyj · Apr 7, 2018

2 cards, 4 mana, draw 6. seemsgood.

Karsticles · Apr 7, 2018

BananasWithGuns said:

They better revert Naga Sea Witch in Wild. I don't want Turn 4 to be drawing 6 Giants and Turn 5 to be dropping them.

Minthara · Apr 7, 2018

It's a goofy combo, but quest mage that finishes the quest, drops Alexstraza then 5-6+ apprentices (2 innate, 2 simalcrum, 2 from arugal) can just pay 8 for two pyros for lethal now if they are bored and want to do it.

Sure it has no real practical implications, but fun for science!

KuroNeeko · Apr 7, 2018

Wow, this set got interesting real quick.

Flaurehn · Apr 7, 2018

Karsticles said:
They better revert Naga Sea Witch in Wild. I don't want Turn 4 to be drawing 6 Giants and Turn 5 to be dropping them.

That was my first thought, giant mage is gonna be crazy if Naga Witch stays the same.

And even in standard a 4 mana draw 6 is crazy alone nevermind with Dorian

QFNS · Apr 7, 2018

Yeah Wild Giants Mage is gonna be nuts with that.

I mean Frost Lich Jaina in Standard is probably already going to be quite good with that card. Elemental made is like T2 or T3 atm and it got some good support here (no exciting elementals yet tho).

Ricelord · Apr 7, 2018

are they trying to make aggro mage a thing again?

Flaurehn · Apr 7, 2018

I just had a thought: Lets say you draw the scroll of wonders this generates? Do they get cast before getting discarded from book of specters? If so I am getting more intrigued by a minion mage deck

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 7, 2018

Flaurehn said:
I just had a thought: Lets say you draw the scroll of wonders this generates? Do they get cast before getting discarded from book of specters? If so I am getting more intrigued by a minion mage deck

Hm. That's a good question.

On the mage copier/minion draw

how many minions are there that add cards to your hand? They're losing babbling book from Karazhan, but still have...Steam Surger, Shimmering Tempest, Ghastly Conjurer, Arfus, Lich King in order to complete quest...The draw minion deck does seem geared towards Elemental Mage.

Mobius and Pet Octopus · Apr 7, 2018

Flaurehn said:
That was my first thought, giant mage is gonna be crazy if Naga Witch stays the same.

And even in standard a 4 mana draw 6 is crazy alone nevermind with Dorian

Specter won't always draw 3 and that is a 2 card combo requiring a 1 of legendary that also happens to draw 3 minions, I think I am okay with that.

IceMarker · Apr 7, 2018

BananasWithGuns said:

Hey look! Mini-Chromaggus!

Slightconfuse · Apr 7, 2018

Like the Mage leg

Codosbuya · Apr 7, 2018

Tess is going to be Lynessa 2.0. If you played enough good random cards to justify the 8 drop, you are probably winning already. Tess is being overhyped

Arugal is sweet tho <3

squidyj · Apr 7, 2018

Codosbuya said:
Tess is going to be Lynessa 2.0. If you played enough good random cards to justify the 8 drop, you are probably winning already. Tess is being overhyped

Arugal is sweet tho <3

tess isnt instantly answerable by a single silence, nor does it require you to stick boards to play spells on.
these are just cards over the course of the game, there's no reason to believe you have to be massively ahead just because you played these cards.

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 7, 2018

squidyj said:
tess isnt instantly answerable by a single silence, nor does it require you to stick boards to play spells on.
these are just cards over the course of the game, there's no reason to believe you have to be massively ahead just because you played these cards.

Right.

Say you play a "Wild Growth" from a druid. At turn 10, that turns into free card draw. But that card alone isn't enough to guarantee a rogue getting ahead. Tess changes the dynamic rapidly in one turn.

Codosbuya · Apr 7, 2018

squidyj said:
tess isnt instantly answerable by a single silence, nor does it require you to stick boards to play spells on.
these are just cards over the course of the game, there's no reason to believe you have to be massively ahead just because you played these cards.

While it is true that Tess doesn't require a board to play spells/minions, you dont start the game with the enemy class cards in your hand. You have to spend mana to get them, similar to buffs.So there is a two-step scenario with random Rogue archetype, the first step is to put random enemy class cards in your hand, which can be bad as they are random. Then, for the second step, you have to spend mana again to play this random cards apropiately. Now, how many cards do you need to play in order to make Tess worthwhile?

What I am saying is that Tess is good in games where you get good random cards, and probably winning because the good cards you have generated; so Tess is a win-more card. Similar to Lynessa, when if you are able to cast the majority of your good buffs, you probably are winning already.

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 7, 2018

Codosbuya said:
While it is true that Tess doesn't require a board to play spells/minions, you dont start the game with the enemy class cards in your hand. You have to spend mana to get them, similar to buffs.So there is a two-step scenario with random Rogue archetype, the first step is to put random enemy class cards in your hand, which can be bad as they are random. Then, for the second step, you have to spend mana again to play this random cards apropiately. Now, how many cards do you need to play in order to make Tess worthwhile?

What I am saying is that Tess is good in games where you get good random cards, and probably winning because the good cards you have generated; so Tess is a win-more card. Similar to Lynessa, when if you are able to cast the majority of your good buffs, you probably are winning already.

you have to take into consideration that from turn 1 to 8, you have a total of 36 mana to play through. So it's totally possible that the cards you get, will be played. Especially if you have tess in hand. If you don't have tess in hand, you use the cards as the situation arises.

squidyj · Apr 7, 2018

Codosbuya said:
While it is true that Tess doesn't require a board to play spells/minions, you dont start the game with the enemy class cards in your hand. You have to spend mana to get them, similar to buffs.So there is a two-step scenario with random Rogue archetype, the first step is to put random enemy class cards in your hand, which can be bad as they are random. Then, for the second step, you have to spend mana again to play this random cards apropiately. Now, how many cards do you need to play in order to make Tess worthwhile?

What I am saying is that Tess is good in games where you get good random cards, and probably winning because the good cards you have generated; so Tess is a win-more card. Similar to Lynessa, when if you are able to cast the majority of your good buffs, you probably are winning already.

tess piles up a bunch of mana worth of stuff in a single turn, it can be anti-synergy and turn out badly but even a number of generally weak cards from tess can be a very large swing. You don't need to be hitting tirions and voidlords and UIs in order for tess to have a big impact on the game state.

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 7, 2018

squidyj said:
tess piles up a bunch of mana worth of stuff in a single turn, it can be anti-synergy and turn out badly but even a number of generally weak cards from tess can be a very large swing. You don't need to be hitting tirions and voidlords and UIs in order for tess to have a big impact on the game state.

This is why it's huge. Even if you only get like, 3 2 cost cards, 1 5 cost card, and 1 6 cost card, that's still a total of 17 mana played in one turn. That is where the swing comes in. AND Tess puts down a body on board, with a cost that is relatively cheap to the amount of value you get.

squidyj · Apr 7, 2018

I dont know if random card generation is good enough for a deck right now but if it is tess is lock in that deck.
Not like you build a deck around random cards for consistency anyway. :P

Codosbuya · Apr 7, 2018

BreezyLimbo said:
This is why it's huge. Even if you only get like, 3 2 cost cards, 1 5 cost card, and 1 6 cost card, that's still a total of 17 mana played in one turn. That is where the swing comes in. AND Tess puts down a body on board, with a cost that is relatively cheap to the amount of value you get.

You need to also consider the mana you have spent to generate those 2,5,6 cost cards to evaluate Tess. Probably she is good, but slower than most people think.

Deleted member 1041 · Apr 7, 2018

Codosbuya said:
You need to also consider the mana you have spent to generate those 2,5,6 cost cards to evaluate Tess. Probably she is good, but slower than most people think.

I mean, you need mana to use any card. Yeah, sometimes you'll get dead steals, or sometimes you'll get great cards that buffer your own deck.

fertygo · Apr 7, 2018

Well Lynessa proven as decent enough in otk pally that basically tempo deck that not too aggrrsive so they run some big drop

rahji · Apr 7, 2018

The effect of tess is really cool, but I highly doubt that you get a lot of value when you play her on curve. She is meant to be played like a n'zoth immediately after your opponent cleared your board.

squidyj · Apr 7, 2018

rahji said:
The effect of tess is really cool, but I highly doubt that you get a lot of value when you play her on curve. She is meant to be played like a n'zoth immediately after your opponent cleared your board.

well if you're a good player you have knowledge of what's going to happen when you play her (if not the order it will happen in) so you can tailor your strategy with that information in mind but I agree it's not a curve play.

V-Faction · Apr 7, 2018

BananasWithGuns said:

I saw this before going to sleep. Yeah, let's give the minion synergy to the spell class. Let's give draw to the class with draw already. And then let's combine those 2 cards for some unprecedented value plays. More like Saltmage Salrugal.

KuroNeeko · Apr 7, 2018

V-Faction said:
I saw this before going to sleep. Yeah, let's give the minion synergy to the spell class. Let's give draw to the class with draw already. And then let's combine those 2 cards for some unprecedented value plays. More like Saltmage Salrugal.

Why not shake things up? I mean, outside of say...Water Elemental, it's not like Mage has a ton of non-spell based minions. This is a card that can potential help a non-standard archtype take off--like Hagatha for Shaman. I think it's great. That doesn't mean I think it's powerful (though drawing IS very powerful in HS), but it's already encouraging people to think of Mage in new ways.

Unless you're just salty from wiping in Shadowfang Keep? ^^

JetBlackSVW · Apr 7, 2018

I really want to see Elemental Mage work but I don't think these cards fix the weaknesses of Elemental Mage.

One of the problems is that the elemental chain breaks rather easily, sometimes you have to spend all your mana a turn to use a removal spell or even playing Jaina on turn 9 means no battlecry next round.

Also there are still no 2 or 3 mana elementals that give you strong board presence, no elemental like Duskbreaker, and no strong elemental taunt for late game that is annoying to deal with like Voidlord or Obsidian Statue.

Minthara · Apr 7, 2018

Yay more elementals

scarlet · Apr 7, 2018

Bonfire Elemental

5 mana 5/5 draw a card if you played elemental last turn

Support for Elemental mage

Helot_Azure · Apr 7, 2018

That's some pretty card art.... Mages are going to be card drawing machines.

What's with the lack of Shaman reveals?

Deleted member 4367 · Apr 7, 2018

What made elemental mage so weak?

Minthara · Apr 7, 2018

Yaboosh said:
What made elemental mage so weak?

AOE outside of Geddon and Anomalous (lol).

Bodies to protect face.

Something very sticky. Pyros is way too slow, although it is value.

You can argue that since its mage there would be a lot of room for blizzard, etc.

But this archetype being peddled for Witchwood seems designed to be spell-less.

DSP · Apr 7, 2018

ok elemental mage will be very good.

it seems like a midrange deck that never runs out of gas and plays sizable bodies every turn, control eventually runs out of resources to remove these.

JetBlackSVW · Apr 7, 2018

Yaboosh said:
What made elemental mage so weak?

I already wrote about it 4 posts above, but in short the difficulty is to not break the elemental chain and elementals are kinda understatted.

scarlet · Apr 7, 2018

Helot_Azure said:
That's some pretty card art.... Mages are going to be card drawing machines.

What's with the lack of Shaman reveals?

Save it for the stream I guess

Thanatos even now already a minion oriented elemental mage on ladder

Papercuts · Apr 7, 2018

5/5/5 draw a card is pretty insane.

Though iirc an ele on 4 was pretty clunky to pull off. I guess they have Leyline, but if they go a minion focused route he's just elemental yeti.

DSP · Apr 7, 2018

Archmage Arugal seems nuts. you play with book, boom full hand of elementals for 4 mana.

Deleted member 4367 · Apr 7, 2018

You have to have spells as a board mage i think, at least two frostbolts and two fireballs, maybe a polymorph for warlock. But i don't think 7-8 spells will negatively affect arugal/ludicrous draw spell combo that much.

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