Volvo the car brand is owned by Geely, isn't it?Uh my next car is a Volvo EX90 fully electric SUV. You ok, man?
Volvo the car brand is owned by Geely, isn't it?Uh my next car is a Volvo EX90 fully electric SUV. You ok, man?
Oh i'm doing fine. Nice product, just a 2800kg car that requires a 111kwh battery to move. Perfect for the environment 💀 I see that some of the units will be made in China as well, absolutely perfect.Uh my next car is a Volvo EX90 fully electric SUV. You ok, man?
I think what a lot of people figure is that if the car is only worth a few thousands dollars, which I'm sorry to say, your car is, then when it has a $3K repair bill, that means the car is technically "totalled" (as it needs the same amount of money in repairs to get running again as the entire car is worth). An insurance company would tell you much the same thing.
Volvo Cars remains headquartered in Torslanda in Gothenburg, Sweden. I understand a Chinese holding company owns them, but that doesn't mean the corporation is a Chinese entity or that their cars are suddenly designed in China now.
This is an embarrassing post. I'm supposed to feel worse about driving my electric car than you feel driving an ICE car because my car uses parts from China and weighs more, due to the battery, and you're actually attempting to spread the old "worse for the environment" FUD while you're at it.Oh i'm doing fine. Nice product, just a 2800kg car that requires a 111kwh battery to move. Perfect for the environment 💀 I see that some of the units will be made in China as well, absolutely perfect.
The battery is also 100% made in China 😭😭 I'm sure they followed all the best practices to ensure the production had a minimal impact on the environment.
I agree...but US manufacturers aren't even trying. They seem to think EVs have to be fully loaded and cost $60k+. Just give me a low-end, 200km-range EV with no frills! The people yearn for a $20k EV for commuter use.
It will continue in the world, just not in US (maybe, I still doubt the ban will happen)Yes the West is changing, they are going to copy China and start banning foreign goods and services. China being able to ban Facebook etc while pushing Tiktok on the world was not going to last forever.
Before doing that, I want you to explain a couple of things:You really want me to explain why giving away EV license plates for free should be considered an indirect subsidy to EV makers?
I agree...but US manufacturers aren't even trying. They seem to think EVs have to be fully loaded and cost $60k+. Just give me a low-end, 200km-range EV with no frills! The people yearn for a $20k EV for commuter use.
it's called free market capitalism
tell American companies to learn about it
The lease credit does not have a place of manufacture or sourcing requirement. That is why the Biden Administration was able to write regulations applying it to South Korean vehicles. In fact, various newspaper outlets were bragging about this feat when the regulations came out. You would have to: 1. compare off lease vehicles for both, where the only difference is the $4,000 used vehicle credit or 2. explain why the theoretical $20k vehicle would not be put up for lease.Honest question - would this theoretical car compete with an off-lease $35k-$40k MSRP car with 25-35k miles on it, given a $4k point of sale rebate (money "on the hood") during a sale? I don't think it would.
The initial draft and the regulatory evolution of the incentives to US customers has been to make leases of new EVs very attractive (lower cap cost), and then sales of EVs coming off those leases more attractive.
This is all in keeping with one of the big pillars of the IRA-to build the cars in the US and meet the automakers in the US (which isn't just US automakers, but Japanese makes and European makes, many of which make their cars in the US already) where they are at-and create more unionized jobs. Key there is unionized, this part of the IRA was a big nod to union membership growth as part of a huge political fight by Democrats try to keep the union working class from polarizing to Republicans like the rest of the working class has.
The political environment has changed massively over just the last eight years. The free trade consensus doesn't exist in either political party. We won't even get into a trade agreements with Vietnam/Japan/The Philippines (we backed out of the trade provisions recently of one agreement in negotiation), these are like cornerstone countries in our Asian foreign policy.
What's happened is that working-class voters have polarized, they don't like free trade, and Republicans can't win without them and Democrats can't win without mitigating how much Republicans win the group by. Cheap EVs, and even the environmental/climate issue as a whole, are repeatedly not a working class isssue, it is an elite/professional class one. Thats why Donald Trump rails against EVs in his silly campiagn rallies.
Is this an applicable comparison?Well lets fast forward to today. Brazil's chemical industry, other industries as well, but lets just focus on chemicals, is under serious pressure. Capacity is down by more than a third, they're accusing China of dumping, so they're threatening retaliatory tariffs. The alternative is for Brazil to do nothing, import chemicals, which will negatively impact their industry, layoffs all around, govt stabilizers/support kicks in, govt has to fund the stabilizers/support in the short term via debt issuance.
Is this an applicable comparison?
The proposed ban mainly targets EVs, because that is the main type of vehicle that China is exporting (and has a competitive edge in). We know what Chinese EV prices are like, because they have been exporting to Europe and Australia: $20,000 range for subcompact hatchbacks and $30,000 range for compact crossovers and compact sedans. The US has ICEs in this range, so it is really US EVs that need to come down in price to avoid being pushed out of the market.
The posters in the topic are against the US proposal because they want to phase out ICEs in favor of EVs, and they are fine with using Chinese EVs to do so. Similarly, they want to replace fossil fuels with renewable energy, and Chinese solar panels are welcome in this effort. I don't think either is a long-term sustainable option, but they are substantial improvements over the US taking however long it wants to decarbonize for geopolitical reasons. The posts here are driven by the recognition that a speedy transition out of fossil fuels will require cheap non-emitting replacements, and Chinese manufacturing is the most viable answer. That recognition drives much of the support for Chinese EVs (and solar). The thread would be quite different if the proposal targeted Chinese steel or cement.
What would be the comparable urgent need in Brazil's chemical industry?
Ok then what about VW, BMW, and Mercedes? Their electric vehicles aren't crap
WASHINGTON—The Biden administration is preparing to raise tariffs on clean-energy goods from China in the coming days, with the levy on Chinese electric vehicles set to roughly quadruple, according to people familiar with the matter.
A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.
The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S.-made electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000.
But the rapid emergence of low-priced EVs from China could shake up the global auto industry in ways not seen since Japanese makers exploded on the scene during the oil crises of the 1970s. BYD, which stands for "Build Your Dreams," could be a nightmare for the U.S. auto industry.
"Any car company that's not paying attention to them as a competitor is going to be lost when they hit their market," said Sam Fiorani, a vice president at AutoForecast Solutions near Philadelphia. "BYD's entry into the U.S. market isn't an if. It's a when."
Outside of China, EVs are often pricey, aimed at a higher-income niche market. But Chinese brands that are not yet global household names are offering affordable options that will appeal to the masses — just as the U.S., European and many other governments are encouraging a shift away from gasoline-powered vehicles to fight climate change.
"The Western markets did not democratize EVs. They gentrified EVs," said Bill Russo, the founder of the Automobility Ltd. consultancy in Shanghai. "And when you gentrify, you limit the size of the market. China is all about democratizing EVs, and that's what will ultimately lead Chinese companies to be successful as they go global."
Inside a huge garage in an industrial area west of Detroit, a company called Caresoft Global tore apart and reassembled a bright green Seagull that its China office purchased and shipped to the U.S.
Company President Terry Woychowski, a former chief engineer on General Motors' big pickup trucks, said the car is a "clarion call" for the U.S. auto industry, which is years behind China in designing low-cost EVs.
After the teardown, Woychowski, who has been in the auto business for 45 years, said he was left wondering if U.S. automakers can adjust. "Things will have to change in some radical ways in order to be able to compete," he said.
BYD designs all aspects of its vehicles with cost and efficiency in mind. For instance, the Seagull has only one windshield wiper, eliminating one motor and one arm, saving on weight, cost and labor to install.
U.S. automakers don't often design vehicles this way and incur excess engineering costs, Woychowski said. Hoses, for instance, have to meet longstanding requirements in combustion engines for strength and ability to carry fluid under high pressure, many of which aren't needed for electric vehicles, he added.
So Detroit needs to quickly re-learn a lot of design and engineering to keep up while shedding practices from a century of building vehicles. The trick will be determining which procedures to keep for safety and quality, and which to jettison because they aren't needed, he said.
"You're going to have to come and be extremely serious about this, and you better park your paradigms at the door," Woychowski said. "Because you're going to have to do things differently."
If I needed a car I'd get that Seagull in a heartbeat. Small, efficient, cheap... I don't need large, inefficient, expensive...Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry
Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry
The car, Seagull, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China.apnews.com
...For instance, the Seagull has only one windshield wiper, eliminating one motor...
Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry
Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry
The car, Seagull, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China.apnews.com
Maybe it would be a good idea to start cost cutting by using 1 motor for 2 wipers.
I believe that person has absolutely no clue about cars.
We capitalism'd our way into this mess, we will capitalism our way out of it.
Being generous I think it's a matter of bringing down complexity. There are lots of parts in that assembly. Every piece costs money and could break.Maybe it would be a good idea to start cost cutting by using 1 motor for 2 wipers.
I believe that person has absolutely no clue about cars.
Being generous I think it's a matter of bringing down complexity. There are lots of parts in that assembly. Every piece costs money and could break.
We capitalism'd our way into this mess, we will capitalism our way out of it.
Can't pose much of a threat if BYD is banned due to national security reasons.Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry
Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry
The car, Seagull, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China.apnews.com
It saves on one wiper arm though - which I'll point out is nothing new either. Quite a few smaller cars use(d) a single wiper design, like Audi A2. It's just that probably the minimal added complexity to have two wipers is worth the larger visibility that two wipers provide during the rain.Sure, but they said it needs only 1 wiper motor while other cars need 2.
Which is complete nonsense.
Used to be the case with South Korean cars as well, but look at things now. I'm not old enough to have seen it first hand, but I've been told that even Japanese cars had the same stigma in US at one point, which seems laughable today.Fair or not there is a negative perception of build quality in Chinese manufacturing, no one who is looking at a Tesla is going to look at these budget vehicles as a serious alternative, at least not in America.
What I find baffling about this discourse is that China has been manufacturing sub-$5k vehicles for years and this has never been a threat in the west because no one actually wants those cars here. They sell to a domestic and south East Asian audience and that's about it.
Fair or not there is a negative perception of build quality in Chinese manufacturing, no one who is looking at a Tesla is going to look at these budget vehicles as a serious alternative, at least not in America.
What I find baffling about this discourse is that China has been manufacturing sub-$5k vehicles for years and this has never been a threat in the west because no one actually wants those cars here. They sell to a domestic and south East Asian audience and that's about it.
Fair or not there is a negative perception of build quality in Chinese manufacturing, no one who is looking at a Tesla is going to look at these budget vehicles as a serious alternative, at least not in America.
same