That white dudes take offense to the reality of the advantages/privilege that demographic gets?
Much better said than my post.The generic white male protagonist criticism has next to no value in critiquing an individual work, but it's an excellent tool for critiquing an entire industry that insists on doing the same exclusionary thing over and over again. Just like the Bechdel Test.
I'm having trouble thinking of games starring blonde or red headed white dudes. I noticed this when playing Wolfenstein and seeing BJ with blonde hair and blue eyes.
After getting a PM demanding I further explain my distaste and worry for the protagonist of RDR2, it struck me that any time people complain about how generic a protagonist is and that protag is a white dude, there's a subset of posters who get really indignant about those complaints. It happened with Days Gone's Bikerman#334, and now it's happening with RDR2's guy.
We've all seen the Generic White Man protag collage at some point. Indeed, there's been an abundance of nondescript, designed-by-committee white dudes as the protags in games. It seemed really prevalent in the mid 2000s on into the early 2010s.
There's been plenty of white male protagonists who've been distinctive and memorable—I don't recall seeing anyone complain about any white GTA (or rockstar, ore-RDR2 reveal) protagonist being generic. However, when there's another generic white dude protag, it's even worse because it's only reinforcing that stereotype.
How do you feel about the generic white guy player character trend and the negativity surrounding the stereotype? If you're a white guy, do you feel persecuted or shamed by it, and how come, if so?
The way I see it, generic is generic. Generic is uninteresting, black or white, male or female.
The idea of uplifting "equality" via the diminishment of one particular race/color seems counterintuitive. We can have games with diverse leading characters and even character creators without having to completely shit on "white males" or wipe them away from all future games. Some of you are becoming that which you despise.
The way I see it, generic is generic. Generic is uninteresting, black or white, male or female.
I mean I see your point, don't get me wrong, I'm just talking about it from a very specific perspective. Wider representation is just as important, of course, it just wouldn't serve much of a purpose for the story other than checking off that "representation" box if it was still an uninteresting character.
This sort of indifference helps no one.I couldn't care less about skin color or gender, tbh. Just give me a good story.
Or long-haired ones (in non-Anime games). And I mean real long hair, not Solid Snake/Geralt "long" hair. Gabriel Belmont in LoS2 is the only mainstream western example that comes to my mind.The crazy thing is that even among white leads there isn't that much diversity. Where are my curly haired white dudes?
Now now, leave the stubble alone!Same for me. It's a stereotypical male character look in dystopian games, and it's starting to become tiresome. You're telling me you can find an abundance of bullets and gasoline in the post-apocalyptic world, but not a razor to shave your face?
Nah, that's just your crazy scenario you developed in your head as a means to some big conspiracy where Game Developers are trying to push this world view. It's not that sinister or evil as you like to think.Nah, the issue is with the reproduction of white supremacy and patriarchy. As long as Game developers and publishers keep centering white dudes, they're reinforcing sexist and racist norms in society
Nah, that's just your crazy scenario you developed in your head as a means to some big conspiracy where Game Developers are trying to push this world view. It's not that sinister or evil as you like to think.
No, I get what you are saying -- but if he means that the industry is unconsciously feeding into something bigger, then I understand.Wut? It doesn't need to be some big conspiracy that devs/publishers are all actively coordinating. They can play a part in contributing to the issue without realizing it or trying to do so. Or they simply do it out of misguided attempts to reach more success.
Unless you're trying to argue video games and the gaming industry don't have racism and male-centrism problems. If that's what you're getting at, then forget I said anything
No, I get what you are saying -- but if he means that the industry is unconsciously feeding into something bigger, then I understand.
But I do feel like this issue is way blown out of proportion nowadays, I think there is a good balance in games released now. It was something that was as it was, people voiced they want it another way, so the industry slowly adapted. I don't understand how people get so up in arms about it... there was never any ill will towards anyone, it was all just growing pains of a young industry.
Look through the games of 2018 and 2019, the amount that exclusively star a White Male is not very big. Acting as if this is an ongoing issue that is pushed by the "WHITE PATRIARCHY" is insanely ignorant.
"PREACH!!!, i just really dislike his looks... so generic it's actually kind of offensive. It honestly kills any hype for me, i just can't empathize with him.
Ding Ding Ding.
I want to like the Protag (game looks great though) but I feel like if the apocalypse wasn't happening he'd call football players ungrateful thugs for not standing for the pledge. Gives me unwelcome feelings in the whole game actually from the characters we've seen so far."[End Quote]
This really bugs me. Maybe this isn't the place for a rant, but I have to speak my mind.
1) To say any individual character is generic simply based on how they look is such a closed minded and utterly stupid deduction that it borders on racism in this case. Not only is it a deduction that a white male in biker attire cannot have complex character or history, but it also shows that you, judging a book by its cover, think less of an individual because of how they look. Do you walk down the street and pass people thinking, "OMG another generic white person, I can't relate to them." You are basing complexity of character on the color of someone's skin. Talk about racism. This leads to point 2.
2) You can't relate to someone you perceive as generic? AKA You can't relate to someone who isn't like you? Personally, those are the very people you should be coming in contact with (or should be playing as) so you can LEARN to relate. Isn't the point that we are all humans and no matter what our color, situation, origin, preferences, we have the common thread of being human and therefore can find common ground. The fact that you "can't relate" only shows me that he is the very person you should be playing as in order to expand your obviously small world view.
3) The second quote deducts so much about an individual, again based on simply what he looks like. Quote: Gives me unwelcome feelings in the whole game actually from the characters we've seen so far.As someone from Oregon, there are certainly bikers and I would imagine that over by Bend, where this is based, that there are people who dress like this guy. If anything it places him in a world so he fits within reality. Apparently though, simply being white and dressing like him automatically makes him have certain views. I don't dress like him and am not in a biker gang, but I certainly have no issues playing as him because it's his story, not mine.
4) Whether or not the main character is a male or white or whatever, the most important thing in any creator's story is that the characters fit. So far, this character seems to fit within the world they have built. A character can be poorly developed or not have compelling motivations or be poorly acted, etc etc. None of these things leads to a character being "generic". This word as you use it loses all meaning. Generic cannot be perceived from the surface and I would argue that it is rarely found within the animus of most characters. The only time it could become "generic" is if most characters had the same exact motivation for taking the same exact actions as other characters.
5) By all means, if the game comes out and the character has poor motivations or isn't believable within the context of the story, etc etc. or isn't even interesting then criticize. But the oft pled "generic" term is so over played, so simplistic, and so lazy that it makes you look stupid at best and racist at worst.
Thanks for your time!
As an artist myself I am severely alarmed at how few character designs these days pass a simple fucking silhouette test. Things are so damned non-distinct these days its painful. Thats without touching upon the shooter craze of generic soldier/space marine. Try throwing up the silhouettes of thirty of those guys from various games and watch people struggle to guess them right.
You wanna be iconic? Make something that holds up to a silhouette test. Its a basic part of every art students education and every artist in general can attest to its truth. Games have ignored this heavily for awhile in many top projects.
Rockstar white male characters don't really fit the "generic" post
i just think we have to define what "generic" means
Obviously not all white dudes protagonist are generic, I'm playing Max Payne for example, but it does feel a lot of games just throw one there because they couldn't come up with anything, like Rage. They should at least let you create your own character.
there should be two categoriesYeah, there are too many cookie cutter (safe, moist) characters that may as well be customizable. It does no one any favors to treat "white 30-something dude" as the default to the point that design becomes synonymous with "generic."
With infinite alts, one has nothing to fear
Did you see reactions to GTA: San Andreas' protagonist? I still remember a classmate saying they wouldn't play the game because of it ...If you skip a game because of the main character's skin color or gender, you may have a problem that extends beyond your hobby.
i have seen a few people say they won't play RDR 2 cause the protagonist is a white guy tooDid you see reactions to GTA: San Andreas' protagonist? I still remember a classmate saying they wouldn't play the game because of it ...
Did you see reactions to GTA: San Andreas' protagonist? I still remember a classmate saying they wouldn't play the game because of it ...
Do you really think these two things are equivalent? That refusing to play a game because the protagonist is too samey as those before him, is the same thing as refusing to play a game because the protagonist is black?i have seen a few people say they won't play RDR 2 cause the protagonist is a white guy too
its ridiculous to say that their "samey" though, especially Rockstar's charactersDo you really think these two things are equivalent? That refusing to play a game because the protagonist is too samey as those before him, is the same thing as refusing to play a game because the protagonist is black?
That isn't the point.its ridiculous to say that their "samey" though, especially Rockstar's characters
you can't tell me that Niko Bellic, Michael, Trevor, John Marston are all the "same" characters, even though their all "white".
Rockstar makes interesting protagonists