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Oct 27, 2017
13,464
I couldn't copy everything because it's a really long article but here's some highlights:
http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/te...ntense-conditions-life-under-elon-musk-2018-8

"Elon basically does what he wants, whenever he wants," the person who witnessed the apparent date told Business Insider. (Tesla disputes this was a date and said this was primarily a business dinner that the person was invited to).

And it might also be Tesla's biggest weakness. The scrappy, feel-good company, built in Musk's image, also bears many of his flaws — a place where long hours, chaos, callousness, and contradictions can grind workers down, many employees said.

All the people we spoke with are either currently employed by Tesla or have been in the past year. They've held a variety of jobs, from entry level to managers, in engineering, production, and sales, at the Fremont headquarters and factory, the "Gigafactory" in Nevada and other locations. Some requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the press, while others were authorized by Tesla and spoke with us in unmonitored, private conversations.

"People quit within the first two hours, people quit after a week," Galescu said. "There was one guy who was fresh out of high school, 18 years old, never had a job before and was excited to work: 'I want to work seven days a week, 12 hours a day!' By about the fifth day, he was on the floor crying." The guy quit soon after.
Bathrooms at the facility — which employs over 2,400 people and could eventually house 10,000 — are scarce, often messy, and the lines to use them can be long, several employees told us.

Once, someone recounted, the men's bathroom was so busy that an employee put toilet paper down next to a clogged toilet and defecated right there.

The work is fast-paced and unpredictable. Making the numbers supersedes everything. Employees can be drafted without warning and put on an unfamiliar production line with a few minutes of training. During "burst builds" the production system is revved up to test whether it can perform at a certain rate.

The happiest Tesla employees, including Stewart, described themselves as workaholic types who want to work 70-plus hours a week.
"There's a big cult-like following for Elon," one software engineer said. "No company have I worked for, in our quarterly meetings, do you clap when a CEO walks into the podium. So that's just something that people do at Tesla."

Much more at the link.

Mod Edit: Please remember to only post excerpts of articles in OPs. Some of these excerpts have been truncated.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
Would need to be a cult to accept that or a very generous stock opportunity to make mega bucks.

It's still kinda baffling they struggle to make cars, obviously more to it than usual but it's not some trailblazing feat.
 

karkii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
899
Let me guess. America has no regulations about how many toilets there should be in the company facilities? Where I live it's one toilet per 20 men or 15 women.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,215
The work is fast-paced and unpredictable. Making the numbers supersedes everything. Employees can be drafted without warning and put on an unfamiliar production line with a few minutes of training. During "burst builds" the production system is revved up to test whether it can perform at a certain rate.

That doesn't sound right. There is literally a science to assembly line production, which hedges on predictability. Most auto makers have their production timed to the second.
 

Joker13

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
830
On his arm was an attractive brunette wearing a dress and heels that clacked as they strolled across the gleaming white floors. Neither wore protective gear, such as a hard hat or glasses, as they toured the facility. A puzzled factory worker watched the pair enter a conference room where a romantic dinner for two complete with tablecloth awaited them.

literally tony stark
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,889
But some complained this system could do more harm than good. Another former executive claimed that Musk would forward employee emails to the VP in charge with a simple three-letter directive: "WTF." Panicked recipients would stop what they were doing and research the issue.

"It would cause huge scrambles, and you would spend days chasing down some issue that wasn't a real problem," this person said. "Giving people a license to email Elon created a bunch of problems with everyday work. There's a reason why the chain of command exists."

Man I would hate this kind of thing. It could be the employee's fault, it could be the VP's fault, but if the ceo just shoots an accusatory "WTF" email without seeking for explanations first, it would piss me off so much.
 

ImaginaShawn

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,532
I have conflicted feelings, I can see that Musk is going mad, but I do believe that Tesla's success is very important. In order for car manufacturers move away from fossil fuels Tesla really has to steal their lunch for a few years. The entire electric car / solar power revolution was built around his cult of personality.

I think the best thing that could happen is to remove him as CEO and have a more competent person take over, but keep him as a figurehead. Tesla also needs to be unionized within the next year.
 

Fridge Freezer

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 21, 2018
260
But some complained this system could do more harm than good. Another former executive claimed that Musk would forward employee emails to the VP in charge with a simple three-letter directive: "WTF." Panicked recipients would stop what they were doing and research the issue.

"It would cause huge scrambles, and you would spend days chasing down some issue that wasn't a real problem," this person said. "Giving people a license to email Elon created a bunch of problems with everyday work. There's a reason why the chain of command exists."

If Musk's WTF emails can trigger a fire drill, it's nothing compared to his tweets.

I am no fan of Musk but this happens in most workplaces surely? I know I get ridiculous fire drills all the time that are just a waste of resources to get data/info that is not even going to be used; or if it is passed on will need further info/explanation.
 

CastorKrieg

Banned
Jul 5, 2018
272
This quote right there:

Some employees call the work grind "the Tesla life," meaning you're expected to put your life on hold at crunch time, giving everything you've got to the company.

Congratulations on trying to make another person rich.
 

SteveMeister

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,821
I like that he's there all the time and involved.
But the problem is that he expects every employee to put forth the same level of effort, and that's an unreasonable request, particularly for an extended period of time, and especially in a manufacturing facility where there is physical danger. You simply can't expect that everyone be willing or even able to work 70-80-90 hours a week. Hell, he obviously can't do it without pharmaceutical help and look where that's got him with his ridiculous tweets and emails.
Musk needs a long vacation and Tesla needs management that he lets do their jobs, properly.
 

gcubed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,788
the cult is strong enough outside of tesla that I can't imagine how crazy some people are that work there.
 

Exile20

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
That doesn't sound right. There is literally a science to assembly line production, which hedges on predictability. Most auto makers have their production timed to the second.

That makes sense to me. Tesla is not a true auto company and the Musk has no clue what he is doing other than having a vision.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,230
The happiest Tesla employees, including Stewart, described themselves as workaholic types who want to work 70-plus hours a week.

This mentality is toxic as fuck and something people in tech have been trying to break from the last 5-10 years of "Start up hustle". These people are assholes

I am no fan of Musk but this happens in most workplaces surely? I know I get ridiculous fire drills all the time that are just a waste of resources to get data/info that is not even going to be used; or if it is passed on will need further info/explanation.

yes this can be normal, but it's also a problem period. No CEO should be sending emails from random employees saying "WTF" and expecting things to be fixed ASAP. Especially in situations centered around assembly lines.

Musk is great, like any megahuman he's going to receive this proxy-hate

You can fuck right off with this mentality. It's what allows the shit like "tesla life" to be prominent and continue to abuse people's work ethic.

I have conflicted feelings, I can see that Musk is going mad, but I do believe that Tesla's success is very important. In order for car manufacturers move away from fossil fuels Tesla really has to steal their lunch for a few years. The entire electric car / solar power revolution was built around his cult of personality.

I think the best thing that could happen is to remove him as CEO and have a more competent person take over, but keep him as a figurehead. Tesla also needs to be unionized within the next year.

Tesla, as a brand & company, pushing auto is fine. The issue is the person doing the pushing. Tesla can 100% succeed with Musk and to think otherwise is ludicrous.
 

Shizza

Member
Oct 27, 2017
168
Let me guess. America has no regulations about how many toilets there should be in the company facilities? Where I live it's one toilet per 20 men or 15 women.

On the contrary, they're governed by the California Plumbing Code, which has specific requirements for plumbing fixtures required.
 

JetmanJay

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,507
I know a few ex-employees of Space-X so I've heard some horror stories. They don't retain workers too long either.,,
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I have conflicted feelings, I can see that Musk is going mad, but I do believe that Tesla's success is very important. In order for car manufacturers move away from fossil fuels Tesla really has to steal their lunch for a few years. The entire electric car / solar power revolution was built around his cult of personality.

I think the best thing that could happen is to remove him as CEO and have a more competent person take over, but keep him as a figurehead. Tesla also needs to be unionized within the next year.
Progress at the expense of the people is not worth it. And having Tesla as a figurehead won't solve anything as long as his tweets can burn value. Cutting him out entirely would be the best option
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
The stereotypical "I USED TO LAY TILE IN THE BAKING SUN THIS IS NOTHING" worker is one of the most insufferable type of employee.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,230

3.4/5 on Glassdoor isn't particularly good

That said, it'd be nice of Glassdoor separated roles like sales & marketing from product & engineering

I'm genuinely curious - what's worse, the cult of Elon or the cult of Steve?

Elon, 100%

It was less the cult of Steve, and more the cult of Apple
 

New Fang

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,542
That bathroom bit is nuts. Why wouldn't you at least get such a standard thing right?
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109
I believe there are regulations, dictated by the state

OSHA actually has regulations. They are:

15 employees, 1 toilet
16-35 employees, 2 toliets
36-55 employees, 3 toilets
56-80 employees, 4 toilets
81-110 employees,5 toilets
111-150 employees, 6 toilets
Every 40 additional employees past 150: 1 toilet per 40 people

Urinals can decrease the number of male toilets available to 2/3rds of this if there are enough of them.

For assembly work, you have to tag someone in as a temporary replacement to go to the bathroom. I am guessing that these mandatory numbers are on the low side for an assembly line, since you don't want anyone waiting in a line for any length of time. It isn't hard to imagine 10 people wanting to peel off a line of 150 people to go on a restroom break, and that leaves 4 people waiting. And that's not even close to a worst case scenario. If a few toilets back up, it would start causing chaos fairly quickly. Maybe pay the janitors more.
 

Barzul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,965
He really should just hire a capable COO. It's the same stuff that happened during his PayPal days where Levchin and Thiel wanted him out after the Xdotcom merger. I really don't think he's that good of a CEO to handle the day to day stuff. He can just keep the title and hire a COO for the heavy lifting.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Why do human beings put up with being mistreated this way? It's an American sickness, I tell you.

I know, I know, "It's either that or don't have a job". How about workers band together and show their power, and demand to be treated like human beings? This self-defeating binary thinking has got to stop. It's just what the big capitalists growing rich off your exhaustion and stress want you to think.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,230
He really should just hire a capable COO. It's the same stuff that happened during his PayPal days where Levchin and Thiel wanted him out after the Xdotcom merger. I really don't think he's that good of a CEO to handle the day to day stuff. He can just keep the title and hire a COO for the heavy lifting.

I can't imagine A. the amount of scrutiny Elon will put any candidate through and B. any COO worth their weight putting up with his shit

I feel like there were a lot of black turtlenecks in the mid/late 2000s though. lol

There's no doubt that people praised, and continue to praise, Jobs but I think it's very different. Mostly in that social media has amplified a lot of the cultness around Musk, whereas Jobs was kept to message boards & blog sites. More importantly, Jobs was always made the show about Apple so this led to more criticisms levied at Apple as a whole versus straight up Jobs hate. The Jobs hate didn't really seem to come until later in his tenure & with the stories coming out about his brutal managerial style (like the Me issue). Musk, for the most part, has largely been the entire face of Tesla & SpaceX. This has led to more attacks/defenses of Musk and worshipping of Musk as a savior.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I am no fan of Musk but this happens in most workplaces surely? I know I get ridiculous fire drills all the time that are just a waste of resources to get data/info that is not even going to be used; or if it is passed on will need further info/explanation.
It does happen in workplaces, but it's usually a sign of poor management. The more it happens, the more alarm bells should be going off in your head.

First off, it shows that the guy in charge thinks he's above his own company structure and can completely disrespect everyone's time by pulling them away from whatever they're doing to do whatever he wishes, whenever he wishes. Imagine working at a place where your boss can pull you away from your desk at any time for hours or days, regardless of what you're doing and regardless of your schedule. It happens, but it always sucks when it does. That act not only interrupts whatever you're doing, but also screws over anyone who was scheduled to meet with you during that time, which causes further delays in progress. Pulling away someone on a dime like that is, while sometimes necessary, hugely disruptive to multiple people in the company and should only be done if something big happens. Not on the whims of a WTF email that sounds like "I'm too important to investigate this, but you drop everything and do it."

Second, it shows a lack of ability to manage properly. A good manager knows what's important and what's not, and will deal appropriate resources accordingly. Musk is presumably surrounded by high-level executives and other highly qualified/skilled people. If he gets a direct line to any employee complaints but regularly goes off his rocker and pulls people around him to "fix it now", then he's likely regularly making those same executives drop everything they're doing to track down the people who can do something about that complaint.

For example, if an employee mentions an IT problem his team is running into, a mid-level manager in his field would likely know who to talk to to fix that, or at least know someone who knows who to talk to. Talk to the CEO about that, and the CEO flips out and yells at his nearest executive to fix it, except said executive has likely never touched the field or department related to the complaint, so he has no idea who to talk to. That guy then has to go on a wild goose chase that involves wading through the corporate ladder, asking who's related to this, who to talk to, and so on, over and over before he eventually finds who can actually fix the original complaint. It's inefficient and very frustrating for everyone involved in said chase, when it could have all been avoided by just asking someone more in touch with your original problem instead of the CEO. That's why someone guy in the article mentioned there's a reason for corporate structure.
 

Nick Nehidnyk

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,806
That doesn't sound right. There is literally a science to assembly line production, which hedges on predictability. Most auto makers have their production timed to the second.
I think this might explain how a luxury car manufacturer could have so many form and fit problems with their first hatchback
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
That doesn't sound right. There is literally a science to assembly line production, which hedges on predictability. Most auto makers have their production timed to the second.

Have you worked in a production job/assembly? I can't attest specifically to assembly of cars because many of them are union workers, but most of the assembly production jobs I have been to would do that exact thing. They would throw you where they need you, even if you had no training, they would probably have one person who just gives you the rundown and expect you to do it yourself.

That isn't a Musk thing, that is an assembly job thing. Its literally them moving workforce to where its needed and trying to see how fast they can make it go with said workforce. Nothing abnormal as far as manufacturing sectors go.

Manufacturing is monotonous and can suck if you aren't being paid well for it. The things these workers complain about doesn't make me think "Musk" is terrible, to me it further pushes the fact that U.S worker rights laws are incredibly bad.

EDIT: Do you mean just the predictability in your post?
 
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El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,059
For those of you who wonder why aristocratic systems lasted so long in human history (and why in some places they continue to linger) the answer is right here. Some humans seem genetically pre-inclined to bend over for people in power.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,215
Have you worked in a production job/assembly? I can't attest specifically to assembly of cars because many of them are union workers, but most of the assembly production jobs I have been to would do that exact thing. They would throw you where they need you, even if you had no training, they would probably have one person who just gives you the rundown and expect you to do it yourself.

That isn't a Musk thing, that is an assembly job thing. Its literally them moving workforce to where its needed and trying to see how fast they can make it go with said workforce. Nothing abnormal as far as manufacturing sectors go.

Manufacturing is monotonous and can suck if you aren't being paid well for it. The things these workers complain about doesn't make me think "Musk" is terrible, to me it further pushes the fact that U.S worker rights laws are incredibly bad.

EDIT: Do you mean just the predictability in your post?
The predictability