Tbf what we used to get were games that never really got fixed with bugs addressed in v1.1 versions, this is probably the inevitably consequence of making increasingly complex software.True, I still hate that they do it though
And it does seem to be a growing trend over the years, but that's probably also because games get more and more features
Got this Smallant short recommended to me and I had to laugh
View: https://youtube.com/shorts/4kb5QXQ3Zek?si=DXoypOnsfZ5x8PlE
Xenoblade 3 and the Zelda Duology are on Switch and run much better than S and V. Its not the platform, its the developerI see quotes like this all the time regarding Game Freak. They're in charge of one of the best selling game franchises there is, bringing in a HUGE amount of money with each release. Is there a reason why they're not a larger team with the capability to attract high level talent?
I get the answer is probably going to be a variation of "the games keep selling despite the technical issues, so why would they look to invest and improve?", it just seems so silly to me that one of the biggest franchises in gaming has recently released in such shoddy states and that people keep making this excuse for it.
If an EA or Ubisoft pulled this sort of thing they'd be raked over the coals for it. Game Freak and Nintendo seem to get a pass of sorts (despite the vocal criticism they get, there is just as vocal a defence).
Wonder why they keep pushing for these open world experiences that the platform can't handle instead of a more traditional experience polished to a mirror sheen, with fantastic 2D art and animation?
Granted, neither xenoblade or zelda are 4 player coop games; it was the wrong choice by the studio but I don't doubt it's the crux of their issues.Xenoblade 3 and the Zelda Duology are on Switch and run much better than S and V. Its not the platform, its the developer
Also Gamefreak isnt Nintendo
Gamefreak has to know that if they gonna be ambitious (and have coop) they gonna need to spend more time on these games. They cant keep growing the series and put these games out every 2 years. Its untenable nowGranted, neither xenoblade or zelda are 4 player coop games; it was the wrong choice by the studio but I don't doubt it's the crux of their issues.
They want their cake- 4 player coop, and eat it too- releasing at their desired cadence and this is what we get. Sorta like Obsidian choosing the large scope of New Vegas despite them openly accepting an 18 month turnaround time. I don't think S/V is "technical incompetence" like "oh they're not swapping data out of memory efficiently"; it's more of a "you chose to add features to this that completely fucked over the ability to make this run well."Gamefreak has to know that if they gonna be ambitious (and have coop) they gonna need to spend more time on these games. They cant keep growing the series and put these games out every 2 years. Its untenable now
The audience explicitly said they support both games and the state they launched on with how they sold.
There's no greed in it, the state of Pokémon is exactly what the audience have declared explicitly to the Pokémon company that is acceptable. Nothing will change until people actually stop buying them, and slashing the content in the games didn't stop the sales, releasing broken messes didn't stop the sales, so the next game is going to be more of the same, and anyone who bought them while also acting as if they still have any right to complain when everything the Pokémon company has bring doing was a known quantity can only blame themselves.
If we're gonna use your analogy, the person working the drivethrough was reprimanded for mishearing 3 customers while the soft serve machine person broke the machine and 2 fryers and got a promotion.
I get that game dev and art in general is collaborative and should be a community, but I refuse to believe that there wouldn't be a little bit of jealousy/envy/anger/etc at seeing a competitor get to consistently fail up when other 'players' take more heat for far less.
Even if they were co-op they would've still ensured the performance was better. Each of those are orders of magnitude most complex than SV. Not to mention, it's not like the performance issues aren't there when played solo.Granted, neither xenoblade or zelda are 4 player coop games; it was the wrong choice by the studio but I don't doubt it's the crux of their issues.
I do think the reception Pokemon has currently isn't as great as some people like to admit. Last week we had a Christmas party with people working in Japan. When Pokemon got brought up the first thing someone said was "Pokemon, isn't it absolutely terrible". Even people in Japan who don't follow gaming news that closely all basically knew how terrible Scarlet/Violet are from a technical standpoint.
This isn't a case of a reset era bubble. That the games are selling well is also a terrible excuse. Some of the worst movies ever made are amongst the most popular ones
It was a counter argument against the narrative that the only people complaining about Scarlet/violet are a small part of the fandom (mostly people on social media/era). The horrible technical state the games are in is well knownOne person at an obscure party making a comment is carrying a lot of weight with this one. Pokemon S/V has technical issues for sure, but this is hyperbole of a different color.
Technology isn't the only issue, but it is a fundamental issue and I don't think better "choices" will change the fact that they don't have the technical skills or leadership to make the games they keep trying to.I think the impact of both technology and tools is generally overrated, though this is a criticism I have of how games are looked at in general. Like, any game with 4 player coop is more complex than large apes in Xenoblade 3 or floating castles. Like switching to another engine won't do anything if they shove in drop in/out 4 player coop and try to force the game to run as closely as possible to a native resolution. Gamefreak is more than capable of simply just making better choices with the stack they have now.
Didn't they say they are gonna slow down with the releases and try not to rush it after how SV went?Is this how long we may have to wait for the next generation of Pokemon games? I was honestly hoping they'd come around the end of 2024.
God I hope not. I totally called SV's problems when it was revealed they were really coming out with an open world mainline game just three years after the much more conventional game (SwSh) that they couldn't even finish half of. They need more time.Is this how long we may have to wait for the next generation of Pokemon games? I was honestly hoping they'd come around the end of 2024.
Is this how long we may have to wait for the next generation of Pokemon games? I was honestly hoping they'd come around the end of 2024.
I'm saying there are no technical skills anyone can offer them to make the games meaningfully different given what they want the games to be. Monolith isn't making a meaningfully better 4 player drop-in-drop-out coop game.the fact that they don't have the technical skills or leadership to make the games they keep trying to.
I mean, this is mostly just an invented fiction though right? They are no other peer games that are dumb enough to attempt 4 player coop in an open world game to compare to.
It's meaningful for the game to be coop because the game has to be designed for relatively seamless integration of players to be in and out without much if any change to the game world; it's honestly a more ambitious and interesting and challenging thing to implement versus anything really Xenoblade and Zelda does, but like, there's a reason they don't and it's probably because it's extremely difficult to do. Multiplayer games almost universally are more complex and ambitious projects than single player ones ever are.You mention Xenoblade isn't a multiplayer game. So what? You realize if the game is made to scale to 4 players online, it should be near flawless when played with a single player offline, but it isn't even in that situation.
Umm actually the tools and engine you use make a massive difference. Instead of spending so much time tacking on features to their 3DS dinosaur of an engine they could use a middleware engine that has them built in. They could have non ass lighting and world streamingBecause engines aren't as big of a deal as gamers like to think. Using a new one doesn't make things easier by default and it certainly doesn't improve things by default.
Oh, please go into detail about how the engine and tools were constructed, and how level streaming were designed to operate!Umm actually the tools and engine you use make a massive difference. Instead of spending so much time tacking on features to their 3DS dinosaur of an engine they could use a middleware engine that has them built in. They could have non ass lighting and world streaming
I'm confused as what you're getting at? You can't tell that the world streaming solution they currently have absolutely sucks?Oh, please go into detail about how the engine and tools were constructed, and how level streaming were designed to operate!
You have no idea what the actual problem is or whether it would persist based on actual choices they've made. Using a different engine doesn't make things any different if the design they implemented in the first place is what caused the problemI'm confused as what you're getting at? You can't tell that the world streaming solution they currently have absolutely sucks?
I mean unless they strip the systems out of these middleware engines and replace them with Their own solutions lol. All we know is the game absolutely fails at basic features that middleware engines have had since 360/PS3. The LOD system is an abominationYou have no idea what the actual problem is or whether it would persist based on actual choices they've made.
As soon as they showed off coop it was over IMO.I still can't believe they released it in the state it was in.
I mean you're wrong, though I'd love to see these better 360/PS3 multiplayer RPGS. this is why it's tiring not talking to senior engineers; people think they can throw a different tool or "code" at something and the pixie dust will fix things.I mean unless they strip the systems out of these middleware engines and replace them with Their own solutions lol. All we know is the game absolutely fails at basic features that middleware engines have had since 360/PS3
It was over as soon as they showed off an open world game three years after they failed to complete their last traditional linear game lol I'm pretty sure I said so in the announcement trailer. it's crazy that people still were caught off guard
Do you want me to compile a list of games from that area with better streaming and LOD systems? I don't know what being a senior engineer has to do with it, a toddler can look at the end results. They would save significant time by employing middleware rather than constructing their own solutions from scratch on an engine which doesn't support them. Same reason why CD Projekt Red did it and they actually produce games people find technically impressiveAs soon as they showed off coop it was over IMO.
I mean you're wrong, though I'd love to see these better 360/PS3 multiplayer RPGS. this is why it's tiring not talking to senior engineers; people think they can throw a different tool or "code" at something and the pixie dust will fix things.
No one's implying that. You're twisting people's words and not understanding they've shown absolutely no ability to design a performant engine for large open worlds. You can bring up how it's seemingly impossible, as if MMOs haven't existed and tackled the problem for years, or how Legends Arceus which didn't have online co-op still looked like shit.As soon as they showed off coop it was over IMO.
I mean you're wrong, though I'd love to see these better 360/PS3 multiplayer RPGS. this is why it's tiring not talking to senior engineers; people think they can throw a different tool or "code" at something and the pixie dust will fix things.
I still can't believe they released it in the state it was in.
Don't forget that the wild area also had to drop res to very minimumNo one's implying that. You're twisting people's words and not understanding they've shown absolutely no ability to design a performant engine for large open worlds. You can bring up how it's seemingly impossible, as if MMOs haven't existed and tackled the problem for years, or how Legends Arceus which didn't have online co-op still looked like shit.
Their foundation is trash. Building on top of it will only make things worse. You choose to narrowly focus on online multiplayer/co-op as if that alone is causing all the issues when it isn't remotely close to being the only technical shortcoming. Even if it wasn't a feature the game would still look poor, only with slightly better performance.
They couldn't even get the Wild Area to run well. You going to pretend there are no other games that have done 4 player online co-op in an area that small either?