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Wowfunhappy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
Annoying as it may be, they probably don't have enough of a team in place to retroactively add subs to past games.

The statement all but said they'll add subtitles to games going forward, which realistically is the best that can be hoped for.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,359
Parts Unknown
I can't even think of a AAA game that doesn't have subtitles that came out within the past few years
I always turn them on, even though I'm hearing, because audio mixing sucks a lot of times in action games.
 

ashtaar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,518
To be clear are they saying they won't patch it in?
If so I wish I could ungift this, bought for my younger siblings bday because it was their first game but this is pretty tone deaf
Has anyone started a hashtag to @ toys for bob and acti?
 

SomaXD

Member
Oct 27, 2017
786
Ugh... im not hh/deaf but i always use subtitles for the convenience... but fuck activision for this shit.

Trx5u3j.jpg
 

Deleted member 9100

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
I'm surprised it's not required to have subtitles. As far as I'm aware, tv shows and movies are required to have them.

Personally I always use subtitles in games. I may not hear everything in a conversation and having subtitles definitely helps since unlike movies or tv you can't rewind a scene.

This actually makes me think of something I haven't really seen in video games that would be interesting. The ability to rewind and fast forward a cutscene.
 

Drain You

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,986
Connecticut
I really hate consuming any media without subtitles. TV/Movies/Games/Youtube they are always turned on if available. Hopefully they patch it.
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,097
They added the map and Sparx gem finder to Spyro 1 so it not's like they were against adding new features to it at all.
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
Colombia
I remember the last game I played that didn't have subtitles was Assassin's Creed. The original. Eleven fucking years ago. Get a damn grip. I don't even have listening difficulties, but this frustrates me to no end.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,138
Subs and inverted camera controls are the first things I run to options menus for before beginning a game. And alot of games have 'em lately. Guess this needs to become an official thing. So you heard 'em MS/Sony/Nintendo. Make subs a requirement. And Acti? Patch in subs to this collection. Not just for english, but for each language you've covered vocally.
 

Freddo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,639
Småland, Sweden
As someone born with a poor hearing, I ALWAYS turn on subtitles. The last game I played that didn't support subtitles is Singularity, and it was published by Activision too...
 

Chaserjoey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,648
Subtitles need to be mandatory, as is the ability to access options before the game actually starts. Missing out on information in that first cutscene because you can't toggle options really sucks.

Shame on Activision for this. It's inexcusable.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
Annoying as it may be, they probably don't have enough of a team in place to retroactively add subs to past games.

The statement all but said they'll add subtitles to games going forward, which realistically is the best that can be hoped for.
A team?

They have the game script. UE4 has subtitle support. It's a case of syncing subtitles then to the game cutscenes.

Considering people add subtitles to movies etc in their spare time, this shouldn't even be a factor.

Apparently Toys For Bob don't bother with subtitle support for Skylanders either, so they're just being negligent to people with hearing loss.
 

Setsune

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,649
I just assumed they'd be there, like every other major modern release in 2018. What an awful thing to leave out.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,321
A team?

They have the game script. UE4 has subtitle support. It's a case of syncing subtitles then to the game cutscenes.

Considering people add subtitles to movies etc in their spare time, this shouldn't even be a factor.

Apparently Toys For Bob don't bother with subtitle support for Skylanders either, so they're just being negligent to people with hearing loss.

As someone that has worked in subtitling and localization for Netflix, it's a lot more work than you think. Now with a source script available for a single language(English), the actual needs are less demanding as the actual localization effort is dramatically cut.

But consider that the script and subtitling for the hearing impaired are actually not the same. The script doesn't usually take into account an off-screen audio cue or sound that is unspoken but the actors may react to. How can the deaf hear a gunshot unless told? Music as well. Do the Spyro games ever have an audio focused mini game or a special musical tone that is necessary for progress but not part of a cutscene or scripted?

Often the inclusion of such additional descriptive insertions are paramount for the hearing impaired and require a lot of additional work. Consider Spyro is three full games that weigh in at what 10-15 hours each? They all will need a context check, editor, and multiple retiming passes to ensure proper quality...assuming they care to put in true effort to do the job correctly.

But what about different markets? French(Parisian and/or Canadian), Spanish(Latin American and/or Castilian), Japanese, Chinese(traditional and others?), etc... Not all deaf understand English, nor is this game only available in one market. The production balloons dramatically editing, checking, timing, retiming, fixing, etc... for all. This will require contracting multiple staff and teams to get this right(and believe me people complain like crazy when a subpar effort or slight mistake, typo, or mistranslation is found).

Granted, I fully endorse Activision do the work for as many markets as possible in which this game is available.(I don't expect the game to get near the options that a film production on a streaming service does, so at minimum English alone for NA unlike the EU, which well...), but my intent is just to highlight the tremendous effort that is involved to do subtitling proper. (But also Studios have tremendous guidelines in place for their content to abide by surrounding subtitling, dubbing, and localization whereas games...?)
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2017
2,304
Can you imagine buying these games for your hearing impaired child during Christmas only for them to open it up and realize they can't understand what's being said by any of the characters?
I'll buy the damn game and hand type the script for their lazy asses if they'll take what I write out (not that they didn't have a script to begin with). Nothing makes my blood boil more than a child having to experience hardship because a bunch of adults couldn't be bothered to do something simple, especially in a game that's for their enjoyment.

But consider that the script and subtitling for the hearing impaired are actually not the same.
I've used both subtitles and they definitely are a different breed. Still, this is work I've always taken for granted since seeing subtitles as an option in gaming. Typically I use the standard subtitles in almost any game I play, despite not being hearing impaired.
 

Phamit

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,943
Why doe they even mention that there is no industry standard for subtitles? Who cares? Their excuse is that nobody told them to do it or that they simply don't have to include it?

Reads like an apology from a YouTube personality.
 
OP
OP
stinkyguy666

stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
*You. I said you.
I'm not denying that the lack of subtile is a problem. I'm just saying the way this topic was not raise awareness, but instead to provoke a outrage. Its a shame because there is good arguments that some of the responses this thread is getting.
Okay I still don't get what you have against me personally and I feel like you might be projecting.

Seriously think about this rationally, what would I possibly gain out of concocting a false narrative here and provoking outrage? I don't care about starting any riots. At the end of the day all I want is for subtitles to be patched into these games and that's not going to happen if you sit idly by and blindly accept whatever corporate jargon is thrown at you.
 
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Peek-a-boo!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,207
Woodbridge
All I want is for subtitles to be patched into these games and that's not going to happen if you sit idly by and blindly accept whatever corporate jargon is thrown at you.

Likewise, and just don't worry about what that chap is saying, seeing as 99% of this thread is just likeminded folks pointing out that this is an inexcusable omission in this day and age.

I remember feeling aggrieved not to find any subtitles in Jak and Daxter, as well as the first Assassin's Creed, which is the first and last game from that series that I have played...

Amazing how there are still a lot of films on iTunes that doesn't even provide any form of subtitles, let alone English captions for the hard of hearing. Very frustrating!
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Okay I still don't get what you have against me personally and I feel like you might be projecting.

Seriously think about this rationally, what would I possibly gain out of concocting a false narrative here and provoking outrage? I don't care about starting any riots. At the end of the day all I want is for subtitles to be patched into these games and that's not going to happen if you sit idly by and blindly accept whatever corporate jargon is thrown at you.
I can agree on that. I just think you jumped in some conclusions and throw accusations on what they were thinking based on how you felt. That was not necessary to get your point across. You used a completely different tone now, one that I can relate too and support.

The best course of action in showing a company that you care is to not buy the games till they receive a update and and reach them telling why you didn't bought. And if you want to convince others to support the cause, a sound argument is more likely to convince people to actually commit to it.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
completely unacceptable, and very disrespectful to people who have impaired hearing.
i can't remember the last time i played a game without subtitles on.

Annoying as it may be, they probably don't have enough of a team in place to retroactively add subs to past games.

The statement all but said they'll add subtitles to games going forward, which realistically is the best that can be hoped for.
i may be completely wrong, but when it comes to patching and updating games, i don't think there's many things that would be easier than adding subtitles.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
Oh horseshit there is no industry standard for subtitles. Before Spyro (didnt know about Crash) I thought subtitles were REQUIRED to pass cert on every platform now because I actually cannot remember the last game I played without at least basic subtitle options and it was probably a middle of the gen PS2 game.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Oh horseshit there is no industry standard for subtitles. Before Spyro (didnt know about Crash) I thought subtitles were REQUIRED to pass cert on every platform now because I actually cannot remember the last game I played without at least basic subtitle options and it was probably a middle of the gen PS2 game.
Yeah, that Twitter thread going around is kind of sad. Like, yeah, it's hard. But tons of things about making games and software development in general are hard. That doesn't mean you don't do them. I'm with you, I can't even remember the last time I played a major game that didn't have subtitle support. Sometimes the support is better than others, sure. But still.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
Yeah, that Twitter thread going around is kind of sad. Like, yeah, it's hard. But tons of things about making games and software development in general are hard. That doesn't mean you don't do them. I'm with you, I can't even remember the last time I played a major game that didn't have subtitle support. Sometimes the support is better than others, sure. But still.

Yes there should also be better subtitling options but I thought no subtitles was completely gone like over a decade ago. Reading the thread it seems like Toys For Bob has been doing this for a while? That's just bad.
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,374
I was gonna post how Spyro has barely any story to warrant this, but then I realized deaf people exist.
Seems like a low effort thing but could help a lot.
A lot of the dragons you rescue give you verbal gameplay tutorials, so those that are deaf or hard of hearing can miss out on key details if they're not familiar with the original game or don't figure them out on their own.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
Yeah, fuck deaf people!

It's obviously small in the grand scheme of things, but still kinda sucks.

Don't say that, it's a big thing for the deaf communities as it exclude them from enjoying a product and straight up discrimination as they purposely choosing to not to include subtitles.

Annoying as it may be, they probably don't have enough of a team in place to retroactively add subs to past games.

Bullshit, as in Spyro 2 and 3 they went out of their way to include written dialogue for in-game but yet opted not to bother for the cut scene or for the dragon in Spyro 1, which by the way was the only way how the player learned how to play the game.

The game looks so good and when come to I play it, I am going to be disinterested in the story simply because of the lack of subtitles and struggle with Spyro 1 as I won't understand what the Dragons are saying. Which just frustrates me to no end.

All I ask is for the barrier to removed because the truth is, life is already hard for us disabled folks. We don't need people/company making it harder for us.

he statement all but said they'll add subtitles to games going forward, which realistically is the best that can be hoped for.

That statement is also horseshit as not once they say sorry, spouted stuff that had nothing to do why it wasn't in the game nor did they promise to include it in a future patch.

The Spyro remaster is not the only game where Activision messed up as the Crash Remaster lacks it, despite getting an update patch and being ported to other system, the Legend of Korra game lacks it, it's the sole reason why I refused to play it, and someone pointed out that the Skylander game never had them.

I simply no do believe that Activison is going to work to include them in future game as I actually complained about the lack of subtitles in the Korra game and I just got palmed off.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
Don't say that, it's a big thing for the deaf communities as it exclude them from enjoying a product and straight up discrimination as they purposely choosing to not to include subtitles.
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way, but truth is, most players won't care about it. The best we (as a community) can do is to tell Activision that this is unacceptable, but this reply doesn't give me much hope.
 

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,207
I play every game with subtitles on, and I was VERY unpleasantly surprised earlier today when I noticed that Spyro didn't have an option for them. I may wait on a patch before moving forward in the collection.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,543
Here's an illuminating twitter thread about why there isn't a standard way of implementing subtitles for videogames

It's long so I'll just embed the concluding posts and summarize the best I can

you know you should add subtitles, that it's the right thing to do andit's not fair to deaf or hard-of-hearing players, but you don't have time, the budget, or the staff, and if you ask ATVI for additional heads just to transcribe strings they're gonna laugh at you then fire you

so you ship without subtitles, because there is no industry standard, you don't have time to create and test your own, and while you know some people will be upset by this choice, if you ship with your current water renderer your graphics programmers will getting death threats

Key points:
1. Video Game makers need to be pressured financially to do so, and the most direct way of doing that is to enforce it with federal standards for accessibility in entertainment media, with hefty fines if they are violated.
2. As a corollary, video game producers do not prioritize adding a stable, tested and bug free subtitles experience for every localized language, where things like line breaks, screen width and font size all need to be thoroughly tested. It is not a trivial enterprise and surprise! game makers have zero incentive to please subtitle fans.
3. The model of subtitling for TV and film is not applicable, as it is too inflexible and doesn't take into account the interactive nature of video games, where subtitles may need to contain string replacements for player names, etc, nor are they dynamic enough to be swapped out for branching dialogue, "skip cutscene" buttons, etc.
4. Even when subtitles are present, because of #2, the task is given to low-level employees and the budgets/timetable to test and verify subtitle accuracy are tight, tight tight.

This is not to say we don't deserve better, but it should answer the 'why isn't subtitling standardized?' questions and hopefully get us to the more meaty discussion of 'how do we actually get game publishers to give a crap?' without resorting to the weary quiver of 'it's so easy!'/'lazy devs!'
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
Uh, is that a quote with someone's reaction inside it? Is that from the website, or from the OP? If it's from the OP, please don't.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,562
Ibis Island
I'm still mad about this and refuse to buy it until it's patched. There might not be a standard, but that doesn't mean you forego those of us who need it as unnecessary.