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Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
I haven't read any of the apoilers to be oerfectly honest as I'm somehow unable to bring myself to read Crossroads. Its judst sitting there, waiting to be opened a 10th time only for me to drop it again. And this is someone who can read Winters Heart and enjoy himself.
 

Hobbun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,407
I haven't read any of the apoilers to be oerfectly honest as I'm somehow unable to bring myself to read Crossroads. Its judst sitting there, waiting to be opened a 10th time only for me to drop it again. And this is someone who can read Winters Heart and enjoy himself.

Crossroads is easily the most difficult book to get through. I think it took me almost a year to get through Winter's Heart and Crossroads (most of that due to Crossroads). But it does get better with Knife of Dreams and as I'm sure you've heard, the quality increases substantially for the last three books.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Crossroads is easily the most difficult book to get through. I think it took me almost a year to get through Winter's Heart and Crossroads (most of that due to Crossroads). But it does get better with Knife of Dreams and as I'm sure you've heard, the quality increases substantially for the last three books.
Made a mistake, damnit. >_< I meant Knife of Dreams. Actually did get through crossroads qhite easily, but I do think the fact that I basically skimmed the book is what's making Knife so hard to read. Cause I know I have to go through Crossroads again to remember a bunch.
 

blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
3,034
Made a mistake, damnit. >_< I meant Knife of Dreams. Actually did get through crossroads qhite easily, but I do think the fact that I basically skimmed the book is what's making Knife so hard to read. Cause I know I have to go through Crossroads again to remember a bunch.

Leigh Butler has got you covered.

Her WOT reread has a synopsis of each chapter. (just don't read the commentary if you haven't finished the series0

 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
More Lord of The Rings than Columbis Harry Potter sounds great, unless you mean the Hobbit ones then we're fucked. Yes an adaptation was always going to be what they will film, and that's fine. How they adapt it and what they understood or took away from the series will always bee the important bit and so far it seems that I'm on the same page as Rafe when it comes to how we interpret Jordan's Work. The last line about culture not race beinf the source of amazement is exactly what you want to hear for example.
 

Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
The more I read from people who have seen the scripts the more I come to accept that this show is not going to be very much like the books. And I have a feeling a lot of people, including the people in this thread, are going to be very very disappointed by what they had built up in there heads based on nothing really.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
The more I read from people who have seen the scripts the more I come to accept that this show is not going to be very much like the books. And I have a feeling a lot of people, including the people in this thread, are going to be very very disappointed by what they had built up in there heads based on nothing really.
I'm not expecting a line to line adaptation, but I'm also gonna give them the benefit of doubt that its not going to be as extensive a change as you yourself suggested.
 

Hobbun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,407
The more I read from people who have seen the scripts the more I come to accept that this show is not going to be very much like the books. And I have a feeling a lot of people, including the people in this thread, are going to be very very disappointed by what they had built up in there heads based on nothing really.

I also do not anticipate a line by line adaptation. I think it would actually be impossible and unrealistic for a tv series or movie franchise to do so. There is also aspects I feel could be cut in the books without too much issue
one of the things that comes immediately to mind, the Shaido.

But I also expect them to give a faithful adaptation of what makes the series "The Wheel of Time" and why we love it. And putting it on the chopping block where we will lose large portions, which it seems like you are suggesting, is not what I would feel is a faithful adaptation. And if they go down this route, then I feel people would have a right to be "very, very disappointed". But it's also why I still remain cautiously optimistic, if not skeptical.
 
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Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
But I also expect them to give a faithful adaptation of what makes the series "The Wheel of Time" and why we love it. And putting it on the chopping block where we will lose large portions, which it seems like you are suggesting, is not what I would feel is a faithful adaptation. And if they go down this route, then I feel people would have a right to be "very, very disappointed". But it's also why I still remain cautiously optimistic, if not skeptical.

Yeah, and I'm not trying to be a pessmist. But in this case I feel like I'm trying to be a realist. Huge parts of this book series are going to have to be cut for the tv show. I'm talking huge sections. Whole plots, characters, the works. Even if you base the show on what fans consider the best books (the first four and last four), that is still EIGHT GIANT ass books that are larger than the entire Harry Potter series or the entire GoT series. And look how much had to be cut from GoT after 8 entire seasons for just that book series.

The Wheel of Time just can't reasonably have an adaptation of 14 800 page books (yes I'm exagerating....but only a bit) that stays true to the source material, not even close.

Maybe I'll eat my words, but I sincerely doubt it.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Yeah, and I'm not trying to be a pessmist. But in this case I feel like I'm trying to be a realist. Huge parts of this book series are going to have to be cut for the tv show. I'm talking huge sections. Whole plots, characters, the works. Even if you base the show on what fans consider the best books (the first four and last four), that is still EIGHT GIANT ass books that are larger than the entire Harry Potter series or the entire GoT series. And look how much had to be cut from GoT after 8 entire seasons for just that book series.

The Wheel of Time just can't reasonably have an adaptation of 14 800 page books (yes I'm exagerating....but only a bit) that stays true to the source material, not even close.

Maybe I'll eat my words, but I sincerely doubt it.
The cuts from GoT where hamfisted as shit with no plan even for next season let alone the whole storyline. It's not about how much has to be cut, but how to do it in a planned and intelligent manner. WoT has literal books worth of fluff that you can cut without affecting any of the story.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,940
I also do not anticipate a line by line adaptation. I think it would actually be impossible and unrealistic for a tv series or movie franchise to do so. There is also aspects I feel could be cut in the books without too much issue
one of the things that comes immediately to mind, the Shaido.

But I also expect them to give a faithful adaptation of what makes the series "The Wheel of Time" and why we love it. And putting it on the chopping block where we will lose large portions, which it seems like you are suggesting, is not what I would feel is a faithful adaptation. And if they go down this route, then I feel people would have a right to be "very, very disappointed". But it's also why I still remain cautiously optimistic, if not skeptical.

Personally as long as the world feels like the Wheel of Time and general story beats are there, they can cut it up and change it how they wish. I think if they go into each book/story arc with the mind of "What needs to be there, and how do we achieve the path to it?", and less about all the details of the book about how 'it' got to that point I think the adaption can stand on its own, but they better have a team of editors who can see both sides of the coin. Not stray so far you can't call it Wheel of Time but not stray too much in the wheel of time details where it becomes... too much like the Wheel of time >.> if you get my meaning. I fully expect whole story arcs to be cut or cut off at the knees or handled differently. Shaido story after book 5 definitely has no place in the story other then to pad one of the main characters arc.

The cuts from GoT where hamfisted as shit with no plan even for next season let alone the whole storyline. It's not about how much has to be cut, but how to do it in a planned and intelligent manner. WoT has literal books worth of fluff that you can cut without affecting any of the story.

It also doesn't help that Song of Ice and Fire isn't finished in book form. We know Martin gave a general idea of where things end up, but absolutely zero details on the path to get there beyond what he had already written. We know there are plenty of threads to snip in Wheel of Time because we actually know what affect they ended up having on the overall story. As such not only do we know what can be cut, we know where alterations and deviations can occur, hell I fully expect we might see major characters or even factions merge for the sake of making the story easier to digest for tv, and as such despite the literal thousands of characters or history used in the story, we might even see new characters with new arcs facilitate adapting an element cut or certain characters in certain arcs changing to meet a desired story change. People need to be prepared for this as its the nature of visual adaptions in any medium.
 
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Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
The cuts from GoT where hamfisted as shit with no plan even for next season let alone the whole storyline. It's not about how much has to be cut, but how to do it in a planned and intelligent manner. WoT has literal books worth of fluff that you can cut without affecting any of the story.

If you cut half of the books (so half of the material) it's still larger in word count than the entire Song of Ice and Fire (so far and probably even after 2 more books). If not very close. And that is cutting HALF THE BOOKS.

After 8 seasons GoT still couldn't stuff all of the content of SoIF into the show.

Just process that.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I don't think they would have to really cut *that* much. Wheel of Time has roughly ten times the number of words as the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The Extended Edition movies total 11 hours if you take out the credits. So, if you figure 10 episodes per season, a little over an hour each episode, then they could do Wheel of Time with the same amount of cut content as LotR in 10 seasons. 10 seasons seems reasonable for a huge epic fantasy they want to replace Game of Thrones.
 
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Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
If you cut half of the books (so half of the material) it's still larger in word count than the entire Song of Ice and Fire (so far and probably even after 2 more books). If not very close. And that is cutting HALF THE BOOKS.

After 8 seasons GoT still couldn't stuff all of the content of SoIF into the show.

Just process that.
Words don't translate directly into seconds on the screen. If you've read the books you know how much of it is descriptions, internal thoughts and intricate descriptions of the magic system.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's certainly doable with some decent planning and budget.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,235
New Jersey
WoT has a crazy number of locations that even ASOIAF can't match. That's going to dictate cuts as much as anything.

And it's like this from the start of the books. Two Rivers, Baerlon, Caemlyn, the Ways, Fal Dara, the Blight, and the Eye are all major locations just in the first book. The Great Hunt isn't as bad, but it still has Fal Dara, Tar Valon, Cairhien, and Falme. And later in the books where you have 8 concurrent plotlines all about characters who teleport around when needed, it's too much.
 
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milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,760
Australia
I haven't read any of the apoilers to be oerfectly honest as I'm somehow unable to bring myself to read Crossroads. Its judst sitting there, waiting to be opened a 10th time only for me to drop it again. And this is someone who can read Winters Heart and enjoy himself.

Stick it out. I took a few years break after Knife of Dreams and dreaded reading the last few books but found Sanderson's books easier to read.
 

Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
Words don't translate directly into seconds on the screen. If you've read the books you know how much of it is descriptions, internal thoughts and intricate descriptions of the magic system.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's certainly doable with some decent planning and budget.

We are gonna have to agree to disagree my man. The sheer number of characters, locations and plot lines means this show is going to see huge changes from the books. It's essentially a fact.
 

Reven Wolf

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
Currently going through Heart of Winter, definitely feel the slowdown, but I think the overall series is something that could be adapted to a series, and I'm fairly optimistic!

Of course Sanderson's books are easy to read. His prose is literally kindergarten level.
Hyperbole here we come!

I found the pacing better than Jordan's style which suits me because I'm an incredibly slow reader.
I can appreciate Jordan's style, but yeah, he tends to get bogged down a bit too frequently. I actually found that in audiobook format it works much better, as I avoid the temptation of skipping stuff.
 
Oct 28, 2017
650
How about a more productive discussion: What "fluff" would you all cut from the WoT show if you were running it? Do any factions get cut entirely? I'm only through book 12 right now, but seems like Children of Light and the Prophet could more or less get cut without much impact to the story.

Where I'm at, Perrin is about to clash with Galad's children to save Gil's peeps, so still TBD if anything meaningful comes from that. But otherwise I can't think of too much impact their faction has payed on the story.
 

V_Arnold

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,166
Hungary
I have read the whole saga at least six or seven times, I am very confident in stating that I am one of the series's most hardcore fans, but I have no idea how people do not understand that there will inevitably be changes and differences to the characters. Otherwise, we would have no chance of this ever making to television.

Lets be absolutely clear. NOTHING that the tv show will do can take away the experience that we have based on reading the books. That is the most important point. However, it can absolutely make history in regards to fantasy tv shows if it is executed correctly. This has potential beyond GOT or even Witcher. The show has good thematics, varied character backgrounds, no single "more important than anyone else" protagonist (and I will debate you to hell and back if you think Rand is the only one that matters in this show, which is soooo not true.), and it has so many complex, powerful and competent women too.

It can lose some of its Robert Jordan-esque "oh, all women are controlling, all men are mules" mentality, and the base concepts of Wheel of Time can improve tenfold. Also, and I cant stress this enough, I absolutely think that one has to be very sheltered to truly think that a city cant have a cultural cohesion with people of different skin color coexisting. It absolutely can. And there was an influx of refugees and different skin-colored babies too when the Aiels crossed over to deal with Laman the Treekiller.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,235
New Jersey
How about a more productive discussion: What "fluff" would you all cut from the WoT show if you were running it? Do any factions get cut entirely? I'm only through book 12 right now, but seems like Children of Light and the Prophet could more or less get cut without much impact to the story.

Where I'm at, Perrin is about to clash with Galad's children to save Gil's peeps, so still TBD if anything meaningful comes from that. But otherwise I can't think of too much impact their faction has payed on the story.
Morgase's entire arc after being queen. The bowl of winds, actually probably everything in Ebou Dar. The Sea Folk and the Kin can go. The Shaido are only needed as a faction in the waste. Nothing really important happens with Illian, you can probably cut Sammael entirely.

The Children are probably most important for showing how people are afraid of the dragon and channelers/aes sedai, bu you don't need an elaborate organization to show that.
 

skillzilla81

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,054
I can't stand Sanderson's writing and only appreciate the final books because an ending is better than no ending.

But we rushed through so much stuff to get there. I never minded Jordan's pace at all, save book 10, because...jesus. lol He took a long time to build things up, but the payoff was always, always, always, always well worth it for me.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
What I'd love to see out of this show is art design and costuming that's accurate to the books. Most fantasy stories exist in a world that looks a lot like Medieval Europe. The Wheel of Time is an exception in that it takes place primarily in countries that look like Early Modern Europe (with bits of Asian imagery). So it should look more like the Tudors or the Borgias than the Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. I'd love to see the Defenders of the Stone dressed like the Pontifical Swiss Guard.

How about a more productive discussion: What "fluff" would you all cut from the WoT show if you were running it? Do any factions get cut entirely? I'm only through book 12 right now, but seems like Children of Light and the Prophet could more or less get cut without much impact to the story.
Even if the Children of the Light become less important later on, they are absolutely pivotal early on in the novels. Not only do they play important plot roles in books 1, 2, and 4, but they show how even humans who are strident enemies of the Dark One can still be horrible. But even being horrible people they still fought against the bad guys at Falme. They also serve as some of the most difficult enemies to deal with because you can't just kill them all the way you could with Trollocs. It'd be murder and there are tons of people who support them. Finally, the Children of the Light is one of the most visually interesting factions, and that alone would be enough to justify their existence in a visual medium like TV.

I have read the whole saga at least six or seven times, I am very confident in stating that I am one of the series's most hardcore fans, but I have no idea how people do not understand that there will inevitably be changes and differences to the characters. Otherwise, we would have no chance of this ever making to television.

Lets be absolutely clear. NOTHING that the tv show will do can take away the experience that we have based on reading the books. That is the most important point. However, it can absolutely make history in regards to fantasy tv shows if it is executed correctly. This has potential beyond GOT or even Witcher. The show has good thematics, varied character backgrounds, no single "more important than anyone else" protagonist (and I will debate you to hell and back if you think Rand is the only one that matters in this show, which is soooo not true.), and it has so many complex, powerful and competent women too.
I mostly agree. There was no way that the Wheel of Time could survive unchanged as a TV show. Adaptations in general shouldn't adhere too close to their parent materials, and the Wheel of Time is less well suited to a literal translation than most series. It's just too big and too ambitious to work. In particular, the Eye of the World needs to be altered because it would feel too much like a Fellowship of the Ring rehash otherwise. Also, Mat was an ass in the books until he got Healed. I can't imagine a TV show doing the same thing with probably the most popular character in the series.

I feel that the potential of the show is much lower though. The biggest problem is that it's a bit too sincere in an age where where shows like Game of Thrones revelled in cynicism. It doesn't help that the main enemy is called "the Dark One".
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Yeah the visual style of the world is gonna fun to see, especially the reactions. Most non book readers are gonna be excited about a new fantasy series, and then hopefully get a shock when its not Medieval. Shit, Borgias and Tudors is a good reference point, but it goes beyond that. The forsaken are gonna be straight up Early Victorian, a lot of the mens formal wear is Late Baroque(lots of laces and frills is a common talking point), and women's fashion is somewhere between 400 years of European fashion. Then you have lots of mediterranean influences to the South, a whole lot of Asia up north and somewhere in between things got strange with bells in the hair and lingerie as everyday wear that sounded more daring then contemporary fashion.
And yeah the Children are a must. Those assholes are needed to point out that the world is a murky swamp of grah morality and just because you don't worship satan doesn't mean you can't commit war crimes.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Yeah the visual style of the world is gonna fun to see, especially the reactions. Most non book readers are gonna be excited about a new fantasy series, and then hopefully get a shock when its not Medieval. Shit, Borgias and Tudors is a good reference point, but it goes beyond that. The forsaken are gonna be straight up Early Victorian, a lot of the mens formal wear is Late Baroque(lots of laces and frills is a common talking point), and women's fashion is somewhere between 400 years of European fashion. Then you have lots of mediterranean influences to the South, a whole lot of Asia up north and somewhere in between things got strange with bells in the hair and lingerie as everyday wear that sounded more daring then contemporary fashion.
And yeah the Children are a must. Those assholes are needed to point out that the world is a murky swamp of grah morality and just because you don't worship satan doesn't mean you can't commit war crimes.
The most important part is how sick the Asha'man coats will be.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,760
Australia
I just did a Google Image search for "wheel of time fashion" and there are some really interesting interpretations of the fashion. Some it reminds me of the costumes from Outlander and Victoria.
 

Donos

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,545
You read through complete WoT six times V_Arnold ? Shiiiiieeet. Took me over 15 years or so (with one big break) to finish my first and only session...

Although I'm a way faster reader than back then, I still have no time to do a reread unfortunately :(
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,793
USA
And now we have to wait until October for more news. I think they are doing one WoT Wednesday a month on Twitter.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
I was hoping it wouldn't be a white guy and it's not. Pretty happy about that.

My only problem is that guy is waaaaaay too attractive to be Lan. They gotta ugly him up a bit.
Yeab this is the first casting I'm not entirely on board with. Actually slightly worried now, this cast is CW tier attractive and Lan should be a bit older looking than this. Moraine is like in her mid 80s and Lan is about 40, the hell they doing.

And now we have to wait until October for more news. I think they are doing one WoT Wednesday a month on Twitter.
Yep, 1 announcement per month.
 

skillzilla81

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,054
Yeab this is the first casting I'm not entirely on board with. Actually slightly worried now, this cast is CW tier attractive and Lan should be a bit older looking than this. Moraine is like in her mid 80s and Lan is about 40, the hell they doing.


Yep, 1 announcement per month.

Making it so that a 40+ year old man isn't creeping on somebody less than half his age when they get to the romance between he and Nynaeve.

Age problem is solved by saying there's some warder thing that slows aging. /shrug
 

PKthndr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,587
I thought the books made it clear that he was attractive? I remember it being stated multiple times that he was popular with women.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Making it so that a 40+ year old man isn't creeping on somebody less than half his age when they get to the romance between he and Nynaeve.

Age problem is solved by saying there's some warder thing that slows aging. /shrug
Eh I guess. Age differences really shouldn't matter after a certain point but I could see why they would want to avoid it. Still though, making Lan attractive feels like a negative, they are likely gonna skip over the fact that they love each other because of their pragmatism and hands on approach to life and skip straight to ooooh look how dreamy and badass of a Warrior he is. I hope to hell this isn't the case and I am absolutely wrong cause that basically means they have drastically altered Nyneave's character.
I thought the books made it clear that he was attractive? I remember it being stated multiple times that he was popular with women.
You're likely thinking of Galad Damodred, Wonder Douche Supreme. Lan was stonefaced with blue eyes and long slowly graying hair. I don't recall him as being attractive as mucn as having a darkness that mjght attract some.
 
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