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OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857




Remember these are not alt right or breitbart type journalists.

Again she talks about politics and that is equated by journalists as criticising Jews. Why is she specifically targeted by seemingly left of Center journalists hand in hand with the alt right crowd ?
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Again she talks about politics and that is equated by journalists as criticising Jews. Why is she specifically targeted by seemingly left of Center journalists hand in hand with the alt right crowd ?
Because the "liberal media" is a myth.

Political journalists are likelier to be pro-LGBT than the general population. Beyond that they are vapid and shallow husks who've been conditioned to take every GOP talking point at face value and treat every Democrat with skepticism at best.
 

blinky

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,329
The "dual loyalty" thing really is anti-semitic. People used to trot that canard out against Catholics too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
She can't say shit.
Last time proved that, from her own camp no less.

Nothing she said there was incorrect. People have to stop with the bullshit.
A lot of people support Israel's actions, or they wouldn't try to deliberately mischaracterise her statements as Anti-Semitism.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,114
Rep. Omar elaborated that when she hears her Jewish constituents offer criticisms of Palestinians, she doesn't automatically equate them as Islamophobic but is "fearful" that people are painting her as anti-Semitic because she is a Muslim. Omar continued, "What I'm fearful of — because Rashida and I are Muslim — that a lot of our Jewish colleagues, a lot of our constituents, a lot of our allies, go to thinking that everything we say about Israel to be anti-Semitic because we are Muslim," she explained.​

"To me, it's something that becomes designed to end the debate because you get in this space of – yes, I know what intolerance looks like and I'm sensitive when someone says, 'The words you used Ilhan, are resemblance of intolerance.' And I am cautious of that and I feel pained by that. But it's almost as if, every single time we say something regardless of what it is we say…we get to be labeled something. And that ends the discussion. Because we end up defending that and nobody ever gets to have the broader debate of what is happening with Palestine."​

"So for me, I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country," Rep. Omar exclaimed, seeming to suggest, as Tlaib had in a tweet of her own, dual loyalty among a particular group of Americans. Loud rounds of applause and shouts of affirmation punctuated the event's heavy focus on Israel.​

And oh hey, guess what? We're not having the debate of what is happening in Palestine because we're busy debating whether she's anti-Semitic.
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
AOC's domestic policy + Omar's foreign policy rolled into one is actually an objectively good democrat politician.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
The "dual loyalty" thing really is anti-semitic. People used to trot that canard out against Catholics too.
It is a real antisemitic trope, but it is misapplied here in order to shut down any attempt to criticize Israel.
Which is par for the course and hardly a new thing.
 

Deleted member 31923

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
5,826
Because the "liberal media" is a myth.

Political journalists are likelier to be pro-LGBT than the general population. Beyond that they are vapid and shallow husks who've been conditioned to take every GOP talking point at face value and treat every Democrat with skepticism at best.

This. When people say the Comey letter (probably) cost Hillary the election, that's only half true. It was the wall to wall coverage during the last 2 weeks of the campaign by the so called liberal media that crushed her hard.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,658
Watch the media call her an angry anti-semite because she dares to be an opinionated muslim woman.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
1) Black
2) Muslim
3) Woman

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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
And oh hey, guess what? We're not having the debate of what is happening in Palestine because we're busy debating whether she's anti-Semitic.
It's not like there is any news that we'd rather have people not pay attention to because Evil Black Muslim Woman is trying to do holocaust 2.0.



oh....
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,094
The dual loyalty comments are attacks people use against Muslims as well. Why the hell use terminology like that to state a point?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
The "dual loyalty" thing really is anti-semitic. People used to trot that canard out against Catholics too.
Honestly more american Catholics should be put on blast for not using their reach to demand church action over sexual abuse, ie. serving the church over american people.

In both cases the superficial alignment with discriminatory tropes is covering up the very real crimes she is speaking on.
 

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,228
Honestly more american Catholics should be put on blast for not using their reach to demand church action over sexual abuse, ie. serving the church over american people.

In both cases the superficial alignment with discriminatory tropes is covering up the very real crimes she is speaking on.

...That has never been what people - the KKK, etc. - meant when they said that Catholics held a dual loyalty to the Pope.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
The dual loyalty comments are attacks people use against Muslims as well. Why the hell use terminology like that to state a point?
Dual Loyalty was a huge part of European antisemitism during 19th and the first half of the 20th century, and one of the most famous cases of blatant antisemitism - the Dreyfus affair, was made around the accusation of dual loyalty.

Israel and is supporters are once again trying to tie any criticism of Israel to the worst example of antisemitism they can think of, because hey, it's easier than to defend apartheid.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
imo these repeated incidents are harming her. Maybe she would be better off putting out a single statement. Stating (and explaining/clarifynig when pertinent) her views and stick to that. This is just leading to the same thing again and again. Its a sensitive topic and needs to be addressed appropriately.
 

Meauxse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,251
New Orleans, LA
There a singular country that is the representative of General Jewish ideals. I don't believe there is that equivalent for Muslim or Catholics so that comparison is a bit bunk.

It is specifically here that criticizing the state immediately translates, incorrectly, to criticizing the religion or people of that religion.

So when Ilhan speaks of a dual nationalism of the American pro Israel radicals, it is super fucking clear what she means and is saying but the conversation is shut down because "anti-semitism."

Which basically means that on a public stage it is nigh impossible to criticize Isreal without opening yourself to fucked criticism of being an antisemite.
 
OP
OP

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
imo these repeated incidents are harming her. She would be better off putting out a single statement. Stating (and explaining/clarifynig when pertinent) her views and stick to that. This is just leading to the same thing again and again. Its a sensitive topic and needs to be addressed appropriately.

She shouldn't be told to keep quiet on a particular topic when she is right. It's just silencing her .
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,540
The dual loyalty comments are attacks people use against Muslims as well. Why the hell use terminology like that to state a point?
The "dual loyalty" thing really is anti-semitic. People used to trot that canard out against Catholics too.
This is the quote:

"I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country."

I can't read this as anything other than the effect of lobbying passing Anti-BDS laws forcing public payroll employees to swear fealty to Israel's interests or lose their jobs. Oh hey BDS was also a topic of discussion at the town hall that must have been the context.

The headlines aren't reflecting the actual comment and are saying things like "Omar accuses lobbyists of dual loyalty," a disingenuous phrasing to say the least.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
imo these repeated incidents are harming her. Maybe she would be better off putting out a single statement. Stating (and explaining/clarifynig when pertinent) her views and stick to that. This is just leading to the same thing again and again. Its a sensitive topic and needs to be addressed appropriately.
I seriously doubt a black mulsim woman can criticize Israel in a way that wouldn't get Israel and its supporters calling her an antisemite.
I personally can't even think of a whole lot white men who can even do it without being called antisemites.

I honestly think that putting all the burden on her to not give an opening for bad faith actors is kinda victim blaming, and also will not work.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I was one of the people going "I think she legitimately had stepped on lines (probably/hopefully unintentionally) and needed to address it" about the previous incident. This is a nothing-burger taking the words out of context.
I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country
This is not a statement about individual motivations, this is a statement specifically referring to differing visions of the relationship between the US and Israel. She's criticizing a viewpoint of "we should support them unequivocally" here. Supporting an allied nation shouldn't mean that you don't push back on them when appropriate in the same way you take a friend aside when they're acting like an asshole and check them.
 

adamsappel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
Why don't journalists ever bring up to these evangelical Christian politicians that they support Israel because it needs to exist to bring about Armageddon (also that they want this to happen), and that the Jews are supposed to convert to Christianity, and those who don't will be condemned to Hell? That seems a little bit anti-semitic to me.
 

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,213
South East Asia
Watch this be a bigger deal than Netanyahu's indictment or UN's comments on Israel's war crimes. I'm expecting some stellar gaslighting from Era "allies" too (and a certain someone in power), in the guise of "being better" and "higher standards".
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,114
The dual loyalty comments are attacks people use against Muslims as well. Why the hell use terminology like that to state a point?

She didn't say "dual loyalty" at all.

She said:

I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country

I guess you could interpret that to dual loyalty. Or you could read it as questioning our country's allegiance to a foreign country that disregards human rights to much and how it's ok to keep pushing that.

Suppose the same phrase could be said about Saudi Arabia. Maybe someone needs to bring them both up at the same time to not get hit with the antisemetic claims? But then the issues with either while sort of similar in that we can't seem to fucking question anything they do are pretty different with regards to why that is.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,658
It's kind of hard criticizing Israel and wording it in such a way that there is no room for interpretation in an anti-semitic way.

Even if you criticize their lobbying and AIPAC in the most neutral language possible, some people will still accuse you of anti-semitism because you're perpetuating the anti-semitic trope of Jews bribing/controlling the political scene.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,077
It is a factual statement. If you speak to many Republican voters and legislators, support for Israel goes beyond diplomacy and politics - but rather an ideological ambition, as others have indicated, due to religious prejudice.

The NYT's Daily podcast recently had an episode on US relations with Israel, going back to the 50s, and it was interesting to note that early Republicans contested that deepening ties to the Israeli state would jeopardise US interests in the region; they were worried about upsetting oil-producing gulf states.

Comparatively, we now live in a society that cannot universally condemn the treatment of Palestinians simply because the state in question is Israeli, and we cannot even remark on the overt, self-admitted, biases US legislators have towards that state.

What disappoints me, and worries me, is the Democratic Party's refusal to counter the GOP, even as Republicans made it a partisan issue when inviting Netanyahu to address Congress behind President Obama's back.

Ilhan Omar needs more support, but I'm sure her Democratic colleagues find it easier to call for Trump's impeachment than criticise Israel.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,250
Too bad shes not an old white guy. People would be applauding her courage if she was
 

harry the spy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,087
Like others pointed out, it is very similar to anti Catholic KKK-style criticism. To me it's a clear an anti-Semitic dog whistle (and yes you can criticize Israel heavily without being anti semitic).
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Like others pointed out, it is very similar to anti Catholic KKK-style criticism. To me it's a clear an anti-Semitic dog whistle (and yes you can criticize Israel heavily without being anti semitic).
Can you find me an example of someone criticizing Israel without being called an antisemite?
I mean, Obama had been called an antisemite and he mostly praised Israel.
 

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
Like others pointed out, it is very similar to anti Catholic KKK-style criticism. To me it's a clear an anti-Semitic dog whistle (and yes you can criticize Israel heavily without being anti semitic).


Dog whistle is probably the most over used word going. Not only that, she didn't even specify who was she talking about:

So for me, I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country,"

How is this antisemitic at all?
 
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