Anti-Semitism pervades European life, says EU report

['3y Kingdom]

This shouldn't really be surprising to anyone. All too many right wingers openly fanning the flames, all too many left wingers letting their opinions on Israel color their commentary about Jews as a whole and forcing their own definitions of antisemitism upon others.

 

[Colonel Getafe]

I don't "dismiss" anything about this survey except the assertion that any criticism/boycott of Israel is anti-Semitic. Those data points unfortunately skew the top-line numbers somewhat, but the core finding — that anti-Semitism is a major problem in Europe (and elsewhere) — I entirely agree with.

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I might be wrong here, but isn't BDS about boycotting businesses that export from settlements? That's a different thing altogether from boycotting on the basis of someone being Israeli and something I can get behind completely.

Also, the poster saying I'm apologising for fascism...bring your receipts, because I've spent far more time and energy writing about and engaging with anti-fascism than they ever will, and I'm willing to bet that they don't have similar views about the removal of Saddam Hussein.

I'm also happy to go toe-to-toe with anyone saying I'm ignoring the historical context, as I've got a bookshelf full of arguments that extend beyond the fall of the ottoman empire and I've taken the time to learn from multiple accounts and viewpoints, not just the one im instinctively sympathetic toward.

 

[Dekuman]

Not a shock really. Discussing global affairs with Europeans their opposition to US policy and Israel always seemed off. The anti Americanism i understand but hate for Israel seem to often go too far to the point of indulging in conspiracy theories.

 

[zer0blivion]

Maybe don't come into a thread about scientific study of antisemitism to play your both sides meme card? This is not democrats v republicans and your rhetoric does not apply.

It's a conflict. There are two sides, who are both aggressive. One has more means than the other, it does not mean that the other sides actions can be hand waved away with 'both sidesism'. People are dying because of it. On both sides. Israel's MO is you hit us, we will hit you back, harder. That is what enables Bibi.

Anyone who is actually looking to help the Palestinians would recognise that suicide bombing is not the way out. Much the same as they need to acknowledge that Israel's actions are routinely atrocious and disproportionate. Israelis are radicalised by Palestinian violence and Palestinians are radicalised by Israeli violence. The difference is that Israel can punch infinitely harder. It isn't a moral or aesthetic or political or philosophical difference. By and large they hate each other because of things that have actually happened.

Just don't demonize all of them. I haven't once said here that Palestine is equally to blame or that all Palestinians are terrorists. You're creating a straw man to paint your prejudice upon.

It's usually by now that someone accuses me of being an Israeli astroturfer, the truth is that I'm just listening to victims.

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Accuse me of making straw man arguments and then create your own. Brilliant.

It's disingenuous to say both sides are to blame when one side has all the power and is using that power to maintain an apartheid ethnostate by ethnic cleansing and other war crimes with impunity (thanks to the US veto power in the UN). Calling out both-sides bullshit is not a meme.

If you're going to conflate all Israelis with the actions of their government, why are you surprised when people do the same thing to Palestinians? You're literally saying that it's okay that Israeli citizens are murdered.

Innocent people shouldn't be murdered. It's not a hard stance to understand.

Edit: I'd also say I can't believe how many posters seem to refuse the idea that the left could have anti-semites...but I can.

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Did you quote the wrong person? Do me a favour and quote where I conflated Israeli citizens with their government or said that it was okay for them to be murdered. I'll wait.

I don't doubt that there are people on the left who are anti-semitic, but I do think the left is over-represented in this study due to the amount of respondents who believe that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic (38% weighted 12 country average) or support for BDS is anti-semitic (82% 12 country weighted average).

 

[julian]

I'm not going to talk bout it here. I refused to get dragged into it here, other schmucks may go in for it, but for this one moment I'm not being a schmuck.

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I had a whole long stupid post all written out and everything!

....but you're right. Fine. :(

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Not surprising, they get it from all sides now, including liberals and Islamic immigrants who should know better.

 

[Reverse Giraffe]

Did you miss the huge racist atrocities committed by the far left, communist Soviet Union as well?

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No, I didn't. Governments who commit horrible racist atrocities are not progressive. The USSR May have used leftist rhetoric to lie to their people but that is not progressive, either.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

I might be wrong here, but isn't BDS about boycotting businesses that export from settlements? That's a different thing altogether from boycotting on the basis of someone being Israeli and something I can get behind completely.

Also, the poster saying I'm apologising for fascism...bring your receipts, because I've spent far more time and energy writing about and engaging with anti-fascism than they ever will, and I'm willing to bet that they don't have similar views about the removal of Saddam Hussein.

I'm also happy to go toe-to-toe with anyone saying I'm ignoring the historical context, as I've got a bookshelf full of arguments that extend beyond the fall of the ottoman empire and I've taken the time to learn from multiple accounts and viewpoints, not just the one im instinctively sympathetic toward.

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BDS is about boycotting Israeli companies and institutions, and also non-Israeli companies that participate in the settlement industry/expansion.
That means for instance, that an Israeli speaker from an Israeli university would be boycotted because they represent an Israeli institution, but not someone who happens to have Israeli citizenship but does not promote or represent Israel, because that'd be discriminatory.

 

[Colonel Getafe]

BDS is about boycotting Israeli companies and institutions, and also non-Israeli companies that participate in the settlement industry/expansion.
That means for instance, that an Israeli speaker from an Israeli university would be boycotted because they represent an Israeli institution, but not someone who happens to have Israeli citizenship but does not promote or represent Israel, because that'd be discriminatory.

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Decidedly mixed feelings about that tbh. On the one hand it worked with South Africa, on the other im not enormously comfortable with scapegoating every single Israeli.

I know a few people who are involved in BDS and it's never really been sold to me that way before.

 

[Take5GiantSteps]

I can't even fake pretend shock.

 

[Kirblar]

Your country is going down the drain? No problem just spot a minority, label it as the root of all your problems, and keep on going towards your path of self-destruction.

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Pretty much. Poor minority? "They're stealing all your jobs!" Relatively well-off minority? "They're stealing all your money!"

The latter part is why anti-semitism ends up running into issues explicitly on the (economic) left because of the overlap between "big business is the enemy of working people stuff" (generally true) and illuminati-esque conspiracy theories melding together within the minds of racist/conspiratorial-minded people.

 

[Necromanti]

Finally, Zionism is the belief in a nation state for Jews. Do you know any other ethnic group who are criticised by westerners for wanting their own nation? Can you think of any other country that you want to wipe from the map? If the answer is no, you are a racist.

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The bolded is perhaps not the best way to phrase this given a growing number of members of a rather large (though loosely associated) ethnic group want an ethnostate.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

Decidedly mixed feelings about that tbh. On the one hand it worked with South Africa, on the other im not enormously comfortable with scapegoating every single Israeli.

I know a few people who are involved in BDS and it's never really been sold to me that way before.

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The way I see it:
1-It worked in the past, in an extremely similar situation.
2-It's working now, or else the Israeli government would not be so worried about it.
3-The Palestinians, the oppressed group, actively ask for it.
4-Israelis vote who they vote for. Their problem. Maybe this way they will change their minds, but without boycotts they never will.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I never said I assume a random Jewish person I meet wants to go off to Israel to shoot brown people. Mostly all American Jewish young men don't want to, but even calling out a very small minority that wants to is seen as anti-Semitic which is absurd.

Stop putting words into my mouth. That's what a POS does.

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Maybe you don't understand the point? That question,

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

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is about accusing Jews in general of being more loyal to Israel or Jews as a collective than to their own countries. It's the difference between "Do you dislike this Islamic terrorist?" and "Do you think Muslims are terrorists?" If you answer yes to the second one, you're Islamophobic.

Calling a particular individual out for a particular action is not the same as believing that there is an unpatriotic, Jewish fifth column among us that we need to guard against.