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entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,643
This is about them being personally biased.

This individual and others have literally stated they have been paid by the company that is making the game. Just because they weren't paid for the purpose of astroturfing doesn't mean they don't have a conflict of interest.

This is also in the context that the game is coming under fire for review codes that are being arbitrarily limited.

If you are interviewing someone, the aspects of works they admire in their field (especially creative ones) absolutely have implications on their output. This is true even in technical fields like mine.



There are absolutely people who are positive without astroturfing and devs that can share an opinion without needing to project that there is an overly positive general consensus.



I believe the price point and future implication of industry acceptance is a huge portion of this divisiveness.

I think it is pretty shitty of you to say that threads for Forspoken might be created because of astro turfing. There isn't an unusual amount of threads, not more than what a big game usually gets before their release date anyway.

This game was under fire way before the review codes thing was a problem. And games have been sold at USD 70 for the past 2+ years.
 

Lord Fanny

Member
Apr 25, 2020
26,068
This is about them being personally biased.

This individual and others have literally stated they have been paid by the company that is making the game. Just because they weren't paid for the purpose of astroturfing doesn't mean they don't have a conflict of interest.

This is also in the context that the game is coming under fire for review codes that are being arbitrarily limited.

If you are interviewing someone, the aspects of works they admire in their field (especially creative ones) absolutely have implications on their output. This is true even in technical fields like mine.



There are absolutely people who are positive without astroturfing and devs that can share an opinion without needing to project that there is an overly positive general consensus.



I believe the price point and future implication of industry acceptance is a huge portion of this divisiveness.

You are posting like literal nonsense.
 

DatManOvaDer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,919
Imagine implying that Forspoken, FORSPOKEN, is the game being astroturfed for on this forum. Not only has it not had a number of threads about it that's out of the ordinary, the threads it does get just consist of people shitting on it relentlessly and disproportionately
 

Bardeh

Member
Jun 15, 2018
2,748
User Banned (5 days): Hostility towards other users; history of similar infractions
Great post. It's frankly insane how much hate I've seen from people regarding this game, while other games with much bigger issues just get free passes constantly (CP2077 Transphobia, Persona 5 Homophobia, Etc) but suddenly this game is the game that has everyone up at arms. It's ridiculous when you consider this is supposed to be the "Calm & Collected" Forum and it's just full of people waiting to dunk their hot takes in a thread that they have no skin in.

If the game releases and in the OT I'm still seeing this constant bullshit I'm straight up requesting a deactivation. I'm not going to stay in a forum where actually interesting games are shittalked constantly when the game hasn't even launched for fucks sake.

lmao

BE NICE ABOUT THIS GAME OR I'M LEAVING AND NEVER COMING BACK

youve lost your goddamn mind
 

Deleted member 3038

Oct 25, 2017
3,569
lmao

BE NICE ABOUT THIS GAME OR I'M LEAVING AND NEVER COMING BACK

youve lost your goddamn mind

Clearly you've completely ignored the post I quoted and all the other posts stating the bias against this game, but it's ok feel free to say that I've "lost my goddamn mind".
 
Apr 5, 2022
1,371
Clearly you've completely ignored the post I quoted and all the other posts stating the bias against this game, but it's ok feel free to say that I've "lost my goddamn mind".

Just forget that person who was mocking you. Just remember if this game does remotely well then you know who will be eating their "just deserts" just like when people ate theirs when Guardians of the Galaxy came out because they couldnt trust "the developers" after Avengers which wasn't even that bad of a game and what happened when it came out? Guardians of the Galaxy is one fine game to play especially if you're a fan of GOTG or Marvel, I thought the story in both GOTG and Avengers were alright. People will always have their "hot takes" on a video game but at the end of the day, it's all a matter of preference but you're right. The hilarity when it comes to "bashing" this game when people gave other games just a "glance" and some nitpicks is just funny. I thought the demo was alright and made me want to play the full game so I can hear more of the music, see more of the characters and story.
 

Beelzebufo

Member
Jun 1, 2022
4,074
Canada
Absolutely fascinating how much people love to hate this game. I'm genuinely not sure I've seen a game receive this much venom pre-release before, at least nothing that has looked this…fine?

And no, I'm not writing off genuine issues like the awful writing and the poor technical state of the demo, but good god you'd think the game was actively giving players cardiac arrest or something.

If you all think it's bad here, don't even think of checking out Twitter's takes on the game. Even bigger gaming Twitter accounts are dragging this game through the mud hard.
 
staff post - chill out

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,045
Official Staff Communication
Ok, now that the crazy comments have been banned how about we all step back for a second, take a deep breath, and once again find our centers.

Guys, it's a game. Some people will like it and some people won't. There's no need to be at each other's throats over this. If it's a hit, that's awesome. If it's a miss, that happens from time to time.

We're all supposed to be here to talk about games and our hobbies, to take part in fun discussions. If a discussion stops being fun for you, it's ok to take a step back from it.

And remember: if someone is going too far and breaking the rules, please contact us. If someone is personally attacking you, if they're going in way too hard on someone, let us know.
 

Namtox

Member
Nov 3, 2017
983
I got this game early, I didn't get Harvestella until the day of release. I got Triangle Stategy a week late, but Diofield I got a week early.

It doesn't mean anything insidious, it just seems random.
 

Shan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,976
Absolutely fascinating how much people love to hate this game. I'm genuinely not sure I've seen a game receive this much venom pre-release before, at least nothing that has looked this…fine?

And no, I'm not writing off genuine issues like the awful writing and the poor technical state of the demo, but good god you'd think the game was actively giving players cardiac arrest or something.

If you all think it's bad here, don't even think of checking out Twitter's takes on the game. Even bigger gaming Twitter accounts are dragging this game through the mud hard.
The reception from pre-demo versus post-demo is fascinating. Pre-demo it still had some hate but it was mostly because of that one trailer they released but beside that I remember reading mostly positive things about it. Lots of hype around it.

But when the demo released? Godamn, the negativity's been drowning the positivity.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Its fine. Posters have made it quite clear that open hostility to developers is okay and any sort of positivity/measured approach is not okay for this game. I'll be speaking to a moderator soon to talk about possible deactivation of this account. Again I am not going to risk my professional career and livelihood for sharing an opinion on a game I have no involvement in.
I wish you wouldn't. Your presence is appreciated and not just as a person working in the industry, but as a generally thoughtful poster.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,477
community-A2v2.gif
 

zaxil456

Member
Aug 4, 2020
1,602
The reception from pre-demo versus post-demo is fascinating. Pre-demo it still had some hate but it was mostly because of that one trailer they released but beside that I remember reading mostly positive things about it. Lots of hype around it.

But when the demo released? Godamn, the negativity's been drowning the positivity.

I remember nothing but negativity even before the demo.
 

Ambient

Member
Dec 23, 2017
7,258
This seems like a launch game people would have forgotten about but instead it's coming out years into the generation.
 

Tesser

Writer/Critic at Hardcore Gamer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
893
Question: Has there ever been a game where the reviews came out only a day or so before release and it ended up being an amazing or a good game?

Yep, quite a few games set an embargo for the day before release - it's not that uncommon - and actually turn out good/great. Most recent example I can think of is Pentiment; released Nov 15, reviews dropped a day earlier and it's currently sitting at 86/100 on OpenCritic.
 

PshycoNinja

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,238
Los Angeles
i really hope posters like that are a minority. i hope you'll give moderation a chance to action posters like that before you deactivate your account. i would hate for this forum to chase away yet another industry person with stupid Gamer Rage :/ i mean you must do what you think is best for your own peace of mind and career. i guess i just want to express support and that i think the way people treated you in this thread is really saddening

Lol seriously get out while you can. The amount of hate this forum has delved into is sickening. Seriously, Era is like the most toxic, negative gaming site I've been a part of.

Just wanted to follow-up with the same. It's always interesting seeing a dev tag chime in since y'all are the one's most involved. It's just extra shitty over a game demonstrably being overhated.

It'll be a shame to see you go and I'd wish you'd stay but understandable if you're just sick of it. The site is an absolute toxic hellhole about this game for some reason and its embarrassing.

I wish you wouldn't. Your presence is appreciated and not just as a person working in the industry, but as a generally thoughtful poster.

I genuinely appreciate all the kind words and support. And I really appreciate the mods and admins work on the forum. I know they all do their best.

Regardless, I am still considering it. Me possibly losing food on the table and a roof over my head for stating heartfelt opinions is not a great trade off. Doxxing is a real thing I have dealt with a lot.

This may be going into too much detail but I have been in the industry for over a decade now. I enjoy my job very much despite regularly not being able to go see family, because I believe if I can do for one person what Kingdom Hearts did for me when I was 11 during a time my parents were going through a messy divorce... it would be worth it. Games have the ability to transform and even save people, because it saved me.

I worked on a lot of games in my time in the industry. A lot. I can take criticism because, and this should be shocking to no one, every game gets criticized. Its a part of the job to take that criticism, even if the person wishes the worst on you, you take it as valid criticism.

Despite working on games many have expressed is their favorite game of all time, ever since working on FFXV I have received near constant passive-aggressiveness, harassment, and even death threats. What I find most interesting is those that send me harassment and death threats for FFXV, on their online presence talk about other games I worked on being the best game ever and wish the devs all the praise and good fortune in their lives and careers. Its wild.

Games are extremely hard to make and are extremely taxing on us. We want people to have the best experience when people play our games. I have never worked for a single dev that wants to "scam" people out of their money, and every single one thinks about the players experience. Your enjoyment matters to us. If you are not having fun on any game I have worked on I am personally sorry you feel that way. Please know any game myself or any of my colleagues have worked on we put everything into it.

That said it is always extremely disheartening when people take the least charitable approach for why a dev who DID NOT WORK ON THE GAME wants to see the full product before making any criticisms and doesn't want to give credence to the dog whistles this game in particular brings out of people.

And for reference, yes, harassment and death threats do get to us. A lot. Some of us go to therapy because of it. When we released Final Fantasy XV I was so proud of the team and game. I never thought when working on it I would be inundated for YEARS with harassment and death threats and questions about if I even deserved to have a job in the industry. The only thing that got me through those years is my family/friends and a reddit post I actually have printed out from someone stating how the game changed their life and made them rethink life choices and how they are now going back to school and reconnected with family.

That is why I make games. Because they can have a profound effect like that. And that post I read every time I have a hard day or get another death threat. It gets me through and want to work hard for the people who do care and the future people I can impact positively.

Sorry this is long and ramble-y and has very little to do with Forspoken. But that is the reason the posts earlier made me not feel welcome and unsafe. I hope everyone can be measured when talking about Forspoken criticisms going forward.

And for those quoted thanks for the support. I am still going to think on it and likely still deactivate.

As for the mods and admins, thank you for all your hard work and efforts.

Happy gaming everyone...
 
Last edited:
Apr 5, 2022
1,371
I genuinely appreciate all the kind words and support. And I really appreciate the mods and admins work on the forum. I know they all do their best.

Regardless, I am still considering it. Me possibly losing food on the table and a roof over my head for stating heartfelt opinions is not a great trade off. Doxxing is a real thing I have dealt with a lot.

This may be going into too much detail but I have been in the industry for over a decade now. I enjoy my job very much despite regularly not being able to go see family, because I believe if I can do for one person what Kingdom Hearts did for me when I was 11 during a time my parents were going through a messy divorce... it would be worth it. Games have the ability to transform and even save people, because it saved me.

I worked on a lot of games in my time in the industry. A lot. I can take criticism because, and this should be shocking to no one, every game gets criticized. Its a part of the job to take that criticism, even if the person wishes the worst on you, you take it as valid criticism.

Despite working on games many have expressed is their favorite game of all time, ever since working on FFXV I have received near constant passive-aggressiveness, harassment, and even death threats. What I find most interesting is those that send me harassment and death threats for FFXV, on their online presence talk about other games I worked on being the best game ever and wish the devs all the praise and good fortune in their lives and careers. Its wild.

Games are extremely hard to make and are extremely taxing on us. We want people to have the best experience when people play our games. I have never worked for a single dev that wants to "scam" people out of their money, and every single one thinks about the players experience. Your enjoyment matters to us. If you are not having fun on any game I have worked on I am personally sorry you feel that way. Please know any game myself or any of my colleagues have worked on we put everything into it.

That said it is always extremely disheartening when people take the least charitable approach for why a dev who DID NOT WORK ON THE GAME wants to see the full product before making any criticisms and doesn't want to give credence to the dog whistles this game in particular brings out of people.

And for reference, yes, harassment and death threats do get to us. A lot. Some of us go to therapy because of it. When we released Final Fantasy XV I was so proud of the team and game. I never thought when working on it I would be inundated for YEARS with harassment and death threats and questions about if I even deserved to have a job in the industry. The only thing that got me through those years is my family/friends and a reddit post I actually have printed out from someone stating how the game changed their life and made them rethink life choices and how they are now going back to school and reconnected with family.

That is why I make games. Because they can have a profound effect like that. And that post I read every time I have a hard day or get another death threat. It gets me through and want to work hard for the people who do care and the future people I can impact positively.

Sorry this is long and ramble-y and has very little to do with Forspoken. But that is the reason the posts earlier made me not feel welcome and unsafe. I hope everyone can be measured when talking about Forspoken criticisms going forward.

And for those quoted thanks for the support. I am still going to think on it and likely still deactivate.

As for the mods and admins, thank you for all your hard work and efforts.

Happy gaming everyone...

<3 I really hope you don't go, people like you deserve all the support in the world, I wouldnt know how game development works but much love to you or to any developer who passionately work hard, I'm glad that you do good for the people who just want to simply enjoy/play games while taking in the world and try to resonate with the characters within said game. I'm so sorry for any bad treatment you've received by harsh/mean people, you certainly don't deserve it. I hope you reconsider and stick around, as for the rest of the people who tagged? I appreciate that! To the mods/adminstrators for setting some people straight in this thread? I love y'all and continue to do what you do to keep this place safe!
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
I genuinely appreciate all the kind words and support. And I really appreciate the mods and admins work on the forum. I know they all do their best.

Regardless, I am still considering it. Me possibly losing food on the table and a roof over my head for stating heartfelt opinions is not a great trade off. Doxxing is a real thing I have dealt with a lot.

This may be going into too much detail but I have been in the industry for over a decade now. I enjoy my job very much despite regularly not being able to go see family, because I believe if I can do for one person what Kingdom Hearts did for me when I was 11 during a time my parents were going through a messy divorce... it would be worth it. Games have the ability to transform and even save people, because it saved me.

I worked on a lot of games in my time in the industry. A lot. I can take criticism because, and this should be shocking to no one, every game gets criticized. Its a part of the job to take that criticism, even if the person wishes the worst on you, you take it as valid criticism.

Despite working on games many have expressed is their favorite game of all time, ever since working on FFXV I have received near constant passive-aggressiveness, harassment, and even death threats. What I find most interesting is those that send me harassment and death threats for FFXV, on their online presence talk about other games I worked on being the best game ever and wish the devs all the praise and good fortune in their lives and careers. Its wild.

Games are extremely hard to make and are extremely taxing on us. We want people to have the best experience when people play our games. I have never worked for a single dev that wants to "scam" people out of their money, and every single one thinks about the players experience. Your enjoyment matters to us. If you are not having fun on any game I have worked on I am personally sorry you feel that way. Please know any game myself or any of my colleagues have worked on we put everything into it.

That said it is always extremely disheartening when people take the least charitable approach for why a dev who DID NOT WORK ON THE GAME wants to see the full product before making any criticisms and doesn't want to give credence to the dog whistles this game in particular brings out of people.

And for reference, yes, harassment and death threats do get to us. A lot. Some of us go to therapy because of it. When we released Final Fantasy XV I was so proud of the team and game. I never thought when working on it I would be inundated for YEARS with harassment and death threats and questions about if I even deserved to have a job in the industry. The only thing that got me through those years is my family/friends and a reddit post I actually have printed out from someone stating how the game changed their life and made them rethink life choices and how they are now going back to school and reconnected with family.

That is why I make games. Because they can have a profound effect like that. And that post I read every time I have a hard day or get another death threat. It gets me through and want to work hard for the people who do care and the future people I can impact positively.

Sorry this is long and ramble-y and has very little to do with Forspoken. But that is the reason the posts earlier made me not feel welcome and unsafe. I hope everyone can be measured when talking about Forspoken criticisms going forward.

And for those quoted thanks for the support. I am still going to think on it and likely still deactivate.

As for the mods and admins, thank you for all your hard work and efforts.

Happy gaming everyone...
Always been happy to read your posts around here. If you have to leave for your mental and/or job safety, then you have to. But I'll miss seeing your posts here.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,734
Just remember if this game does remotely well then you know who will be eating their "just deserts"
I don't think this is going to be the case really, the people who have decided they don't like it or don't find it appealing aren't going to have a change of heart and if they did, I doubt they would say so. I don't know that they would look at good metacritic scores or sales figures and be hurt by it or anything but maybe I'm wrong. It would just be "the game doesn't deserve the praise it's getting and the people are wrong". There's no real accountability for people online but if it does well at least it'll be validation for the people who made it
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
I was really hoping to see a quality, fully realized game from the Luminous dev team here, one that wasn't kneecapped like FFXV was.

But SE's apparent lack of confidence in it is giving me pause.
 

Renteka-Bond

Chicken Chaser
Member
Dec 28, 2017
4,307
Clearwater, Florida
That is why I make games. Because they can have a profound effect like that. And that post I read every time I have a hard day or get another death threat. It gets me through and want to work hard for the people who do care and the future people I can impact positively.

Sorry this is long and ramble-y and has very little to do with Forspoken. But that is the reason the posts earlier made me not feel welcome and unsafe. I hope everyone can be measured when talking about Forspoken criticisms going forward.

And for those quoted thanks for the support. I am still going to think on it and likely still deactivate.

As for the mods and admins, thank you for all your hard work and efforts.

Happy gaming everyone...

Ultimately I wish you the best at whatever you end up deciding is best for you. I certainly can't and won't blame you in the slightest. Random users like me can basically just turn all this stuff off and not have to worry about it, so I understand how big the gulf is for someone who can't, especially with how incredibly fickle and malicious people can be, especially about games.

Even if it wasn't super relevant, your anecdote about the note is incredibly sweet and I hope it's something more devs get to see in the sea of garbage and overly-aggressive takes that float around out there. So many games have impacted my life for the better throughout the years that I would hate to see that passion snuffed out of the creators that put themselves into making them in the first place.

Hopefully come Tuesday when the game proper releases, more positive impressions can come out and at least put the game on neutral ground, lol. Forspoken certainly won't be the game that kills the negative interpretation around 'swimming in 7s', but if it can land its niche at the very least, it'll be in a good spot, I think.
 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,102
Pennsylvania
Personally I think Forspoken looks pretty good. I'll wait for reviews for it but I never thought it looked like a bad game. I did not play the demo though. I'll see how the reviews go and decide if I want to purchase it at launch or wait for a sale price like I so with any game.
 

Ciao

Member
Jun 14, 2018
4,896
Incredible how this game is divisive. There's a mix of people hating on the writing, people hating on the demo after only playing it for half a minute and I suspect a small fringe of people not super hyped at the idea of playing a black woman as protag. First time I see such negativity around what will probably end up as a decent but forgetable 7/10 experience.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,159
Official Staff Communication
Ok, now that the crazy comments have been banned how about we all step back for a second, take a deep breath, and once again find our centers.

Guys, it's a game. Some people will like it and some people won't. There's no need to be at each other's throats over this. If it's a hit, that's awesome. If it's a miss, that happens from time to time.

We're all supposed to be here to talk about games and our hobbies, to take part in fun discussions. If a discussion stops being fun for you, it's ok to take a step back from it.

And remember: if someone is going too far and breaking the rules, please contact us. If someone is personally attacking you, if they're going in way too hard on someone, let us know.
We should make this a sticky at the top of every thread here tbh
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,746
It really feels like people are so eager for this game to fail.

Edit: oh wow I just posted after reading the first page. Seems like some shit went down
 
Jan 19, 2022
1,044
Doom 2016 was like the only time in recent memory that did stuff like this and the game turned out to be really good.
The game is going to be mediocre at best.
 

idiotmode

Member
Jul 30, 2022
163
Unrelated to all this but idk if it's been said but the literal full final boss fight is on YouTube so I'd be careful out there.
 

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,683
Unrelated to all this but idk if it's been said but the literal full final boss fight is on YouTube so I'd be careful out there.
Thank you for the heads up, made me have to delete all the forspoken "closer look" promos from SE from my watch history so i'm not recommended anything spoilery
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,678
Yeah there's a channel that has a lot of story scenes and most of the bosses up. It looks like the gameplay is on easy and they're also not particularly good at it, looking at just the footage of the Tanta Sila boss fight. Noped out extremely fast and gonna probably avoid YouTube for a few days.
 
Feb 21, 2022
2,047
I just watched some leaked footage of this game and it genuinely looks fun to me. It looks janky in some spots but I really dig what it's going for and the ways it's experimenting. I won't be buying it right away but certainly down the line when I have more time.

Also, the writing truly is as bad as everyone says. It actively detracts from the game. Whoever decided on this narrative tone for the game completely failed at their job.
 

idiotmode

Member
Jul 30, 2022
163
S'alright I'm probably not the best to ask however since I'm ultimately apprehensive but the bosses final phase looked pretty cool.

One thing I will say I will say about the footage I saw, and it may just be the player here but they need to pull that camera way back. It was like way to close at times could barely see shit happening.
 

mas8705

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,497
red-flag.gif


For all we know, maybe Forspoken will actually be better than we think. But usually more times than naught, a game with limited access to review copies is usually seen as a red flag. Guess we'll be finding out soon if the release is just a couple of days out. Hopefully, it will get a good enough reception.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,594
With the caveat that I'm negative on almost every aspect of the game, it was actually worse than I was expecting (the person playing does seem super bad though). It's giving me major deja vu of something else I can't call to mind either, and it's driving me nuts.

Maybe one of the Drakengard's? They're sorta a mush in my mind.

EDIT: They have the credits up there too and I quickly checked those to answer some questions I had. Takatsugu Nakazawa is still at Luminous (Tabata's right hand design guy who lead the combat and systems of OG Crisis Core, Type-0 and XV) and lead system design here too. The cinematic directors were Toshiyuki Momose (same role on some XV DLC and The 3rd Birthday) and Hidekazu Kato (similarly XV DLC). Iirc Takeshi Nozue filled that role on XV.
 
Last edited:

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,827
Tokyo
Fuck it, I decided to watch the final boss fight and I do not know what I was expecting but I wasn't expecting that...
Visual it looks nice that is all the positives I can say about it.
 

Master_Funk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,613
Im sure it will be fine, and most people are expecting it to be a 7/10 game anyway , so it wont be suprising at all if thats how it turns out.
 

Neutron

Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,806
The cinematic directors were Toshiyuki Momose (same role on some XV DLC and The 3rd Birthday) and Hidekazu Kato (similarly XV DLC). Iirc Takeshi Nozue filled that role on XV.

Does Forspoken have any Visual Works (or whatever they're called now) scenes? I thought Nozue only handled the pre-rendered CG stuff on FFXV - which I guess is the intro, the Luna scene, and the ending. In addition to Kingsglaive. Did he really direct the real-time scenes as well? Not that there were many..

EDIT - looks like he did do both? He's so damn talented, wish he'd been able to devote his whole energy to FFXV itself rather than splitting it with Kingsglaive.