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Apple fires back in court, says Epic Games CEO asked for special treatment [Tim Sweeney Denies]
- Thread starter Xando
- Start date
For me, it's pretty simple. I can want Apple to be better in a lot of ways while also thinking they have the legal right to operate as they do.
You're in the neighborhood but apple's rules can't themselves be illegal.
I feel that people say they want more open platform is a myth because when stuff comes out on stuff other then steam people bitch left and right so I don't understand why people always talk about this. Just mine personal thought
mark zuckerberg, elon musk - it's a not all that uncommon phenomenon nowadays. &, hey, feel free to laugh all you want, because that's what they're all doing, as well. all the way to the bank...
Don't think it would be open though. It's just being forced to use something else. EGS has been just as much of a walled garden on PC because they buy so many games out - they would do the same on mobile.
Epic tried to bully their way to a better deal, this whole "disrupt Apple's monopoly" shit is just to justify it to everyone else stupid enough to believe it at face value.
Read the first sentence again.
And I think you left out this part from Apple's response:
The only people I've ever met who've had issues with Android are people who have never used it and then talk about how iOS is the best.
As they get "new" features people have already been enjoying for years on Android.
I imagine they've been long expecting a lawsuit over this from some entity, and have thoroughly prepared themselves for it. There's already government probes underway in the US and EU in this regard, so this fight with Epic is just the precursor.
You can say that, but that's essentially the behavior that Microsoft got litigated for(and lost an anti-trust suit over). Mobile devices with iOS and Android are now as ubiquitous as PCs are/were. The idea that Apple can have such control is not going to hold up long term. If we wouldn't accept it on a PC, it's probably not going to be accepted on mobile devices.
Tim Sweeney Response
Of course I don't believe that Epic are only doing this for the good of everyone and not primarily their own bottom line. That's BS, even if Sweeney seems like someone who's pretty invested in the principle of opposing walled gardens.
I know he said he's not "asking for a special deal" like the one with Amazon as the outcome of this process, didn't know about the tweets saying he never "asked about one" before. Not a good look if that's true. I guess he will frame this as asking for a temporary change to their contract with Apple until they've changed the rules for everyone.
But his argument is that smartphones have taken the place of PCs in most people's lives and the old business model of one app store as the only place you can get software for billions of devices is monopolistic and too restrictive. Someone has to kick down the door and make things better for everyone in the process (like Netflix for "reader apps"), so why not Epic?
that''s the bad news. the good news: it don't really matter, at that point...
He's really clinging to that subtext to shield himself, isn't he? Nobody of sound mind believes for a second that he's doing this for other developers.
The OP and thread title is somewhat sensationalist, in that it makes it seem as though Tim Sweeney or Epic wanted a special deal others shouldn't or wouldn't be privy to, beyond circumventing Apples payment restrictions, when in actuality the email from Tim Sweeney was just a declaration of their intent to do what they eventually did.
No where is Tim/Epic implicated as suggesting they should be the only ones who ought to be allowed to circumvent Apples payment restrictions, they just happen to be the first ones to make that move, and made the intent clear in a preliminary email.
I really wish there were stricter measures on Era with how thread articles are framed and worded. Too often are they sensationalised or mis-characterised.
No where is Tim/Epic implicated as suggesting they should be the only ones who ought to be allowed to circumvent Apples payment restrictions, they just happen to be the first ones to make that move, and made the intent clear in a preliminary email.
I really wish there were stricter measures on Era with how thread articles are framed and worded. Too often are they sensationalised or mis-characterised.
Epic said the purpose of their lawsuit was not to get a special deal...when there is evidence that they intitated the motions the triggered lawsuit because they got denied a special deal.
I just find it really hard to see how he's honestly opposed to walled gardens when they're perfectly fine locking up exclusives for a year on their store. A more limited 'walled garden' but aren't they kinda the same thing even though it's not permanent?
As a non-lawyer I think Sweeney's demand that an EGS store not only be allowed, but given all the same access as the App Store and be promoted on the App Store is probably going to be a sticking point. People mocked Apple's claim that it was about user security but that probably has some credence here. From a customer perspective if you download a game from a launcher that was on the App store and it bricks your phone you would hold Apple liable but Apple would have had no hand in approving the game on the launcher.
Sweet talking Tim. This guy is a slimy as fuck politician in disguise. In all honestly, in my experience, most CEO's of major companies are.
That is a weakass justification for that entire negotiation tactic.
It's not like that sentence has any legal or leveraging power, he could have easily said "I hope you send a box of blueberry waffles to all registered iOS devs as a token of good faith" and it would be equally as relevant to the discussion.
Because there are people, even in this forum, that believes and support this moron and his company.
Exactly. He requests Apple allow EGS on iOS and follows up by only hoping they will provide the same for others. If Sweeney is really fighting for the little guy and acting on altruism then there shouldn't be two distinguished statements there -- just one requesting Apple open up to everyone.
That is completely irrelevant in this context though. Obviously Tim/Epic are doing this for their own benefit, but if such a move were to become the norm, it would undoubtedly benefit other publishers and developers too, and the point Tim was making is that he wasn't asking for a "special deal" that only benefited Epic, rather that they would be the first to make this move that had the potential and intent to benefit ALL content creators selling on iOS.
Yeah that's kinda the same thing I was thinking but couldn't really put it into words. I mean, it's a quick throw in for him to say it when it's very apparent the meat of what he's talking about is his store.
Bingo, its an offical written requests vs a feel good 'i hope you do this out of the goodness of your heart'
Nothing normal about this. Companies find another leverage if initial backdoor negotiation didn't go through instead of throwing tantrum and bringing its business partner to court when it didnt get what it wants.
Do this thing for me or I sue, you can maybe throw a bone to those folks over there if you want.
It does, because it's direct evidence against Epic's claimed reasons for the lawsuit in the first place.
...no its not. Its a deal so they can get onto the App store with their own Store with zero fees to Apple, but forcing Apple to let them onto the iOS, the equivlence of saying Steam should host the EGS.
Nope. Unless you want to argue that that single sentence near the end of a long and detailed request letter implicitly expands the scope of all the previously requested terms of the negotiation on its own in which case, go ahead. I'm eager to hear such an argument.
Its a deal for Epic, and if somebody else gets something, thats cool.
yeah I have been on Android for a long time now. iOS was definitely too restrictive for me. Android isn't as open as I'd like though, still think Google and the Play Store is a little too dominant. They seem to be taking back the reigns inch by inch. At least there is Samsung out there I guess.
idk, I just don't like platforms as large as iOS and Android having any kind of restrictions. They should be a completely open platform in terms of app distribution. Those computing platforms are far too important to be closed off.
yeah I think people just want stuff to come to their preferred platform, and with PC Gaming it's usually Steam.
well when I talk about platforms, I am talking about the OS. Windows is an open platform in terms of that you don't have to have anyone's permission to put something on there. So you have a open and competitive marketplace. Customers can choose to shop wherever, as well as devs.
In the past, he criticized MS for trying to turn the PC software market into a less open space, more similar to smartphones. So I think there's more than just profit on is mind, even if it's probably the main motivator.
You can get software from a number of places on PCs, there's healthy competition. They compete on price, offer different bundles, give better visibility to their offers and some have exclusives.
If you define a market close enough, you can look at everything as a monopoly (e.g. EGS has a 12 month monopoly on selling Control to PC gamers). Epic are doing this with the ultimate goal of establishing a store that's competitive with the currently dominant Steam, I don't think their plan is to pay for free games and timed exclusives in perpetuity. More serious competition would benefit everyone, but I see how those timed exclusives look hypocritical to PC gamers and that Epic are not helping their own cause with their shitty store that lacks all the features people have come to expect. Makes it hard to take their argument about competition leading to innovation and a better situation for consumers seriously.
