It's not anything like that. Voting for Trump is a choice. I'm required by law to pay taxes, it's not a choice.
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Are we over-labeling the alt-right?
- Thread starter Deleted member 4461
- Start date
I've heard!
So is not voting, and voting third party. Both are just as bad as indirectly supporting Nazis, according to many.
I've had to break ties with parts of my family for other reasons. You only get one life, no point having toxic people about
That's just a false statement. She's a subjectively good person. She will do anything for those she cares about, so she's good to you. She chooses to hurt others for being born a certain way, so she's evil to those she hurts.
Hell, any party can indirectly support anything if you look hard enough. Privileged progressive democrats for example, were responsible for legalizing certain forms of discrimination towards our local, underprivileged, and most vulnerable queer children in my city not too long ago! Yet another reason why I refuse to judge people based on party, or affiliate myself to a party.
"If Hillary Clinton is elected, there'll never be another male President. Vote Trump''
Scott Adams is a crackpot.
Scott Adams is a crackpot.
OP
OP
No, I'm saying all three of those things don't necessarily make someone alt-right. We agree on the first two, but you disagree on Trump.
The sentiment is that people who chose not to vote enabled this to happen. But no, it's not as bad.
Trump's not called a bigot because of his party, he's called a bigot because of his words and actions.
All the same types of characters trotting out the same types of false equivalences.
She likes Trump, she didn't vote for him.
She does things for lots of people. Including adopting my friend because his mother's home was foreclosed, when I was younger. Heck, for all you know, she may have done more good, for more people, than quite a few steadfast and absolutist liberals you know.
I get that. I think I'm just projecting my experiences onto others. My in-laws fucked up for sure, but I don't consider them toxic people. I've seen truely toxic people (several of which are Trump voters. :P)
Eh. You can choose not to pay federal taxes too. In fact, people tried organizing this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...protest-trump-watch-out-for-irs/#3132dc297707
Granted, this was right after the election, and we don't know how those folks are doing right now.
Ultimately, it's about what kind of consequences you're willing to suffer. Negative informal sanctions from friends and family? Or negative formal sanctions from the government? Are you more "Mahatma Ghandi", or more "Keyboardwarrior111"?
That's not how you presented it at all, but sure, we agree in the first two (though "conservative" has much much more crossover). You're comparing different things though. You're talking about someone's stated ideology (what they say they stand for/self label as), and I'm talking about someone's actions (what they show they stand for through conscious action).
I'm not the only one who thinks that. There were people earlier who did a much better job of describing the alt right eco system, how it operates, and where someone like Adams fits in.
It's a hate group, Adams seems to hate women. Maybe other groups too, I haven't dug. Has he spoke out against trumps muslim bans, or in support of black lives matter? Those would be the two things I'd look at next if I were more interested. He lost me at that conspiracy theory list.
I'm glad he holds some progressive views, that's better than holding none. But you can still be alt right. I imagine a ton of the young Nazis we've seen recently are progressive as hell on drug reform. Doesn't mean I'd hesitate labelling them alt right lol.
Ok, so she likes people getting hurt. She loves helping some people, but feels fine about hurting others. Could care less how many you say she helps, how that compares to liberals I may or may not know, and so on. If she likes someone who is hurting LGBTQ people, is abusive, lies on a daily basis, hurts muslims, hurts immigrants, hurts the poor, and so on, she is not an objectively good person.
We're underlabeling the GOP; they're all racist, dumb and evil. It's not an alt-right thing, it's a right thing.
The fact that you literally can not pay federal taxes is not the same thing as not voting for Trump.
I knew nobody would reply and debate this. It's common for someone to provide a logical argument and it get ignored because there is no gotcha opportunity. If you provide a Libertarian or normal Republican right wing view its is ignored or you are thrown in with the rest.
There was a thread where everyone was calling Evangelical Christians hypocrites because they voted for Trump and he had affairs. I offered articles and polls to why they voted for Trump, which is they think he as flawed vessel would best protect the the perceived Christian Nation. That does not make them hypocritical. It makes them a one issue voter. That also does not make them racist for voting for him. All that dialogue and reference just got ignored and the constant same hottakes are posted. Nobody wants to discuss they want to take their shot and move on.
For the record I am an atheist libertarian that didn't vote for Trump nor Hillary. I did vote for Obama though.
I also got called out for playing both sides for being a libertarian which is ridiculous. I can support gay marriage and want smaller government Hell they work hand in hand.
Voting for Trump is deliberately malicious, not voting or voting third party is just privileged, dumb and short-sighted. There is a difference.
I think the problem is that it's a slippery slope. Once someone gets the ideation, it's very likely that it will continue onto more racist ideas.
Just look at Faith Goldy. Reporter at Vice news, rising star in the alt-Right movement. Wants to go to Charlottesville. Vice refuses because they know it's being headed up by Spencer and Duke and they don't want to associate with them. Goldy GOES HERSELF WITH HER OWN MONEY and covers the event freelance. Then the cascade begins. First she says Richard Spencer has some good points. Then she says being a proponent of white culture doesn't mean one is a racist. Then she goes straight into Red Ice "The only way to save the west is for whites to maintain their majority" bullshit. Vice and Jordan Peterson both cut ties with her because they got too batshit for them. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND.
Just look at Faith Goldy. Reporter at Vice news, rising star in the alt-Right movement. Wants to go to Charlottesville. Vice refuses because they know it's being headed up by Spencer and Duke and they don't want to associate with them. Goldy GOES HERSELF WITH HER OWN MONEY and covers the event freelance. Then the cascade begins. First she says Richard Spencer has some good points. Then she says being a proponent of white culture doesn't mean one is a racist. Then she goes straight into Red Ice "The only way to save the west is for whites to maintain their majority" bullshit. Vice and Jordan Peterson both cut ties with her because they got too batshit for them. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND.
I suppose the idea is to actually state why you think they are (to spur discussion of the topic) rather than just throw it out there. It is an oddly random warning all things considered though, lol.
That link says they'll make you, and you'll be penalized for it.
You're trying to equate that to the belligerent racist who announced his candidacy while calling Mexicans rapists, after leading a racially motivated smear campaign against our first black president, predicated on him being a secret muslim spy.
Yeah not voting or associating with that is just like not paying taxes. Lmao.
So proud even my conservative folks denounced Trump early. He was never anything but a joke in our house. Believe me.
I hope it would. Generalizing a group is not allowed. That equivalency is also false. Are you implying its true? Do you think that POCs that voted for Trump are racist? Are you accusing the 63 million that voted for Trump to all be racist? This is what this thread is about. Over generalizing.
Yea it's being overused lately. It's a simple way of calling someone a racist so people are starting to throw those words around without engaging in a conversation. It's a quick fix to dismiss someone with a different opinion than yours. Avoiding a true conversation is becoming pretty popular. I've noticed it's bad to ask questions to some people when you're trying to have a better understanding. To those people that is now a alt right tactic.
Also, people just love labels. Someone called me a libertarian on here the other day when that is factually inaccurate. It gave me a chuckle though.
Also, people just love labels. Someone called me a libertarian on here the other day when that is factually inaccurate. It gave me a chuckle though.
It's not a generalization, it's a statement of fact; Trump is a bigot, his policies are bigoted, a vote for him is a vote for bigotry, ergo any and all Trump supporters are bigots.
That's a very ignorant and unproductive mindset to have.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Trump does have views on other issues, does he not? There are many single issue voters.
You can obviously say those people SUPPORTED a bigot. But labeling them all as bigots is very stupid.
I think we've underidentified such people in the past leading to re-normalization of more white supremecist bullshit. Look at the pushback we get sometimes with even refering to Milo as a Nazi despite wearing Nazi paraphernalia, coresponding and strategizing with Nazis, and promoting bigoted ideology. Donald Trump hired white supremecists for important positions, re-tweeted Nazis, has a history of white supremecy, drew directly from the historical Nazi playbook in his campaign, etc. I'm not going to buy into people being overlabled "alt-right", an already sanitized term for a varierty of increasingly normalized evil viewpoints.
I dont think you understand what a fact is. If you would like to offer your opinion that is always welcome.
Deleted member 13037
Guest
We are over labeling the alt-right, yes. It's just the right without the "civility" they've been using to mask themselves.
yep
and specifically for saying that LIBERAL trump voters who voted for trump are racist, because, as they accurately pointed out, trump was not the better liberal alternative over hillary on any single issue
so if you say you are liberal, but still voted for trump, there really cannot have been anything other than his racism that could have possibly appealed to you
(as opposed to if you say you are right wing on economical issues, in which case it is conceivable you voted for trump for economic policy that would benefit you rather than for his racism)
(i guess a possible alternative to being a racist if you are a liberal who voted for trump would be to be really fucking dumb and/or uninformed)
so it was a ridiculous moderation action, and i can only assume the mod misunderstood the post
(i have also seen off-site that alt-right people/trolls say they like to spam the report button on innocent posts in order to make the moderators exhausted enough by all the reports that they slap a token warning on there to shut those reports up, so i guess that may have been another possible explanation for what went on with that particular moderating decision)
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OP
OP
No, I'm not just talking about stated ideology - I'm talking beliefs. It's related, but different. Adams has left-leaning beliefs despite supporting the alt-right's god.
Again, you should read the blog post linked in the OP. He doesn't hate women, even with his shitty joke. There's nothing other than that joke that paints him that way.
As for BLM... get this, he twisted things into saying BLM should be a natural ally with Republicans.
And the Muslim ban? He says "that's just the world we live in" and that it will also help "protect the immigrants who are already here."
His beliefs are wild, and I've said this many times. But I used him as an example because there are many people with wild or simply ignorant beliefs that aren't alt-right. Adams included.
Just because I don't think he's alt-right doesn't mean I agree with his bullshit.
Adams is alt right.
I've seen other Hillary related examples of obvious misogyny.
But yes I agree that's he's wildly ignorant. That often goes hand in hand with being alt right, like adams.
And yes, I read it. Maybe you should read the thread and notice the areas I directly quoted from the ridiculous blog post?
You describe how he has pretty ridiculous, contrarian views towards other marginalized groups. Yet you assume that wouldn't apply to thoughts on women? Especially when he could hand wave it so easily as "well that's the way the world is" lol.
Lumping them together like that is somewhat reductionist and lacking in nuance, I think. At the very least, I'd say being on the Right is a very different position to the other two. Like, one can be firmly on the Right and not advocate genocide or ethnic cleansing.
Exactly. The more normal these ideas are with people, the greater chance they have to take hold. John Wayne was one of my grandfather's favorite actors. He was also a racist asshole. And yet he's still considered a legend. Why?
The very worst people have often been seen as good people to their loved ones. It's one-sided to bring up your mom as an example that because she's a good person to you and others you know, that she's objectively good to everyone. How do I know she would be good or not discriminatory towards minorities like Trump is? I don't, she isn't a public figure who I can find about on the internet about her views on various things. You have all the information and none of us do, so there isn't much of a debate here.
Sure, they don't outright advocate genocide.
Just the policies that make it impossible for minorities to have decent standards of living.
They don't want an army to go in and kill them, just have them die in the streets.
OP
OP
I responded to what you picked out... I haven't seen anything there that shows misogyny. Even now, your response is "I've seen other things."
Honestly though, ignorance isn't the sole property of the alt-right. Even if you have some evidence of misogyny... That makes him a misogynist.
Alt-right, to me, is a spin-off of the far right that includes more libertarian views & the idea of white supremacy.
I didn't say "outright".
Yes, they will do precisely that to both minorities and the working class to keep their traditional hierarchical structures in place. That's the Right's thing. It doesn't make them the same as either of the other two, who - at least in the case of the Far-Right - advocate and aim to murder minorities.
Some people genuinely don't see Trump as hurting people. To say those people like hurting people is to prescribe intent to a act they aren't even acknowledging.
Yeah I come from country that was occupied by actual nazis(norway) and I don't like when people use that term as some buzzword to label everyone to the right of them in politics. Generalizing huge swaths of people and comparing them to some of the worst mass murderers in history is not cool nor has it any root in reality at all.
