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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,228
As great as the Gen 1 Pokemon were and are to many people since they're so old we had years of analyzing their mechanics.

Many are pretty well documented, like the Speed Stat affecting CRIT rates, which made Alakazam, Jolteon, and Starmie powerhouses.

However, did you know Safari Zone mechanics and Pokeball mechanics were also busted?

In the Gen 1 Safari Zone, you couldn't weaken Pokemon or Status them, making them easier to catch. You need to throw rocks or provide bait. And you can only use special Pokeballs--Safari Balls. Apparently, once you do the calculation, it's actually better to just chuck Safari balls lol.

Moreover, the Great Ball is the best ball in G1, not the Ultra Ball--not counting the Master Ball here since there's only one, without glitches.

If you want to learn more about the Gen 1 Safari Zone mechanics, a creator made a very detailed breakdown here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JnPGL8xsXY

The same creator also figured that Kurt's special Pokeballs in Gen 2 are also busted lol.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiX5Zbz7Vyc

No one really used the Special Pokeballs in Gen 2, so the bugs weren't discovered and documented until many years later. Obviously fixed in HGSS.

I vaguely remember using the Special Pokeballs in Gen 2 as a kid. They didn't work so I gave up using them since they were a rare resource in those games. It was easier to buy conventional pokeballs from shops.

Moreover, the only status that affects the catch rate in Gen 2 are Sleep and Freeze. Burn, Poison, and Paralysis did not work to affect catch rate. They forgot to code the other status effects.

I never used Sleep, I used Paralyze. I guess it was placebo! As Paralyze did not affect catch rates, at all. At least in Gen 2.
 
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Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,377
I was always frustrated that I read guides and my experiences didn't match up. This explains a lot of that. Lol
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,890
A lot of games in the SNES/GB eras were absolute patchworks. One of the main stats (MEvade) in the original SNES version of FFVI didn't work at all.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,228
I was always frustrated that I read guides and my experiences didn't match up. This explains a lot of that. Lol
The Love Ball is busted, well as described. It actually works for same sex Pokemon only. Pokemon was progressive lol.

Plus it only works with the same species. So two Nidoqueens would be the best catch rate in this example.

However, the description says the opposite and doesn't mention that it had to be same species.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,377
Wasn't there a stat in the first Demon Souls or Dark Souls game that also did nothing?
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,808
next thing your gonna tell me is that getting their hp in the red doesnt actually improve catch rate much
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,258
A buddy got pissed because he put so much time into one of the earlier games the time counter reset from a max of 256 hours to 0.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,228
A lot of games in the SNES/GB eras were absolute patchworks. One of the main stats (MEvade) in the original SNES version of FFVI didn't work at all.
Oh, FFVI was hilarious.

So was Secret of Mana.

Pokemon Gen 1 only had 5 credited programmers. So it was a tiny team. I'm sure that didn't help with finding bugs.
 

Paroni

Member
Dec 17, 2020
3,422
That happens. Armor in Cruelty Squad didn't do anything for two years, and the funniest part is that I don't think anyone ever even noticed it.

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Oct 27, 2017
42,700
I'm forever grateful I've never had to program anything as complex as a game in assembly. I'd have never gotten into programming probably if there weren't higher level languages at the time (yes I know C was already out for decades at that point)
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,228
next thing your gonna tell me is that getting their hp in the red doesnt actually improve catch rate much
So that actually does work in Gen 2. I haven't seen the Gen 1 video.

Gen 3 fixed a lot btw. Brand new engine and cleaned up a lot of legacy bugs since it was built from the ground up.

Gen 1/2 were huge messes lol. But, again, they had very small teams behind them.

However, this is just with minor bugs on some battle calculations. The games are beloved still and were obviously enjoyed and surpassed their dev budgets by many factors.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,228
How much better was the great ball than the ultra ball in gen 1? I never heard that one
He has a video, but there's an article. It's very complex


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ0YL9r0B3I

www.dragonflycave.com

Gen I Capture Mechanics


This means that Great Balls are actually better than Ultra Balls in many cases, by design! Pokémon with very high catch rates, in particular, will be way easier to catch in a Great Ball than an Ultra Ball, especially when not afflicted with a status condition, and even Pokémon with lower catch rates should be a little easier to catch in a Great Ball if there's no status, assuming the cap on the HP factor isn't tripped. When is that cap tripped? Well...
 
Dec 19, 2022
260
Wasn't there a stat in the first Demon Souls or Dark Souls game that also did nothing?
Resistance in Dark Souls 1? It does something, but since the actual effect is so meager, it's a much better choice to just use proper armor or rings, like if you want more poison res for example, and it's basically consensus to never put points into the res stat.
 
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RingoGaSuki

Member
Apr 22, 2019
2,445
5 year old me was right, Great Balls always were the better ball. I just had a feeling they worked better, nice to see I was right!

It left a lasting effect on me, I still prefer to just use Great Balls, even in Gen 3 and up where the bugs were fixed
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,943
A lot of games in the SNES/GB eras were absolute patchworks. One of the main stats (MEvade) in the original SNES version of FFVI didn't work at all.
Yeah, it's been a common trend in FF games over the years.

I remember that the Magic Defence stats of armour were broken in the original FF7 and didn't actually apply when equipped. One of the most egregious bugs I remember is Steiners Thunder Slash in FF9; because of a programming error, it permanently has 0% accuracy and will never actually hit an enemy. This didn't apply to Beatrix for whatever reason.

I dunno if those bugs were fixed in subsequent re-releases.
 

Mario_Bones

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,522
Australia
I'm forever grateful I've never had to program anything as complex as a game in assembly. I'd have never gotten into programming probably if there weren't higher level languages at the time (yes I know C was already out for decades at that point)
Having looked at the code from the Crystal disassembly I can fully understand why Gens 1 and 2 are broken hahaha, assembly is so bizarre after being accustomed to higher level languages
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,797
The most complex things I've written in Assembly have been prime number generators and simple loops, I can't imagine writing an entire game in it especially an RPG with 151+ critters - in the 90s. I've peered at the source code and my eyes glazed over.
 

foxuzamaki

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,567
If you want a more recent funny example, in xenoblade 3 there's a mechanic of cooking and eating to get temp stat boosts in the game, there are multiple recipes you can learn throughout the game, until like a month later either from datamining or because they eventually patched it, it turns out none of the cooking recipes worked, except the very 1st free one they give you which is for a middling Stat.
None at all, and every recipe you've gotten would cost materials you've picked up in the world, so you'd just be wasting materials on a placebo.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,228
it must have been hell to test these things before going to production
Only five testers.

nintendo.fandom.com

Pokémon Red and Blue/credits

These are the credits from Pokémon Red and Blue. Satoshi Tajiri Takenori Oota Shigeki Morimoto Tetsuya Watanabe Junichi Masuda Sousuke Tamada Ken Sugimori Atsuko Nishida Junichi Masuda Junichi Masuda Satoshi Tajiri Ken Sugimori Atsuko Nishida Motofumi Fuziwara Shigeki Morimoto Satoshi Oota Rena...

Only five programmers as well. But from what I heard of those days, programmers did some basic testing as well.