At this point of time I don't see how she can be ignorant about the meaning behind the term "people who menstruate".
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At the Height of the Attack on Trans Folk, Cenk and Ana of The Young Turks Decide to Dabble in Some Old News Transphobia
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
This is why 'progressive' is largely meaningless as a descriptor, because it has no theoretical or ideological basis. It's a hodgepodge of whatever political and economic reforms a nominally socially liberal person finds palatable. "As a socialist I'm committed to the liberation of the working class and the oppressed and colonized peoples" is an ideological line you can hold yourself (and be held) to. There's no specific commitment for "progressives" beyond the vibes because it's not a clearly defined project.
What you actually see with a lot of these people is they identified as "antiestablishment" over progressive or leftist. Almost all of these types have drifted to the right over the years and it's what you see with TYT giving us people like Jimmy Dore.
You got to think real hard about what you're saying if any of these people are agreeing with you.
OP
OP
View: https://twitter.com/AnaKasparian/status/1638787481821917185?s=20
Ana failing the shut the fuck up jesus christ challenge
So is stuff like this a backfiring of older feminist points where they'd define women's struggle in sort of essentialist ways for positive effect like "girls rule they see more blood than men at younger ages/a man will never know the pain of being a woman (having periods)"?
Cenk has always been an asshole and I never liked Ana and this behavior further accentuates the reasons why. They deliberately play into contrarian or conservatives talking points just to get people mad at them and they act "brave" for refusing to apologize for it. They're just grifters who think being left-wing means attacking democrats but liking Bernie. It's lazy and it's profoundly anti-intellectual. A lot of left-wing personalities unfortunately fall into this playbook which is why the American Left is difficult to take seriously from the perspective of regular people.
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobia
Honestly? I understand where she's coming from. Transgender people don't need to be centered in every single conversation. For example, if we're talking about abortion, it's okay -- and, I'd argue, the right thing to do -- to say "women" and "women's rights." And "women need access to abortion." And then, when appropriate or called for, expand that conversation to include trans men and non-binary people. Because it's ten-year-old girls that are being raped in this country and being forced to give birth. Ten-year-old girls.
And don't think I haven't noticed that, when it comes to "inclusive" language like this, it's only women who are having their place in their conversation subsumed by other people.
While some of those terms might be overly clinical, it's not hard to imagine how/why trans people might need to be included in various issues regarding menstruation, etc. It's a all rectangles are squares kinda situation. TYT are being willfully ignorant about why these terms exist even if they're somewhat imperfect rhetorically.
OP
OP
You realize that a trans man can still be pregnant and need access to abortion, right? It's fine to be specific about who some of the people are who need this access, but it doesn't make sense to purposefully exclude a group either.
Women aren't defined by genitalia though, hence why the language is used.
Language and science evolve and people need to adapt, of course there's context but come one she's literally punching down trans people just to get a win in the meaning of words Olympics and to appease dingus debate lords on the internet.
It's fucking terrible. TYT is fucking terrible.
We already have the playbook for this I think
1) Triple down
2) Post the most heinous dms/comments they may incite because of their behavior, downplay what they originally said
3) Dismiss all complainers as overly sensitive people who need to stop being so online and mention how online isn't a real place
4) Gain cred as controversial rebels who will stand up for people in the left that aren't like those "too online" folks
5) Continue as before with a bigger platform with another win on your belt
I had a similar thought earlier, that I had never heard the expression "people with prostates" used for cis-men or trans-women. Whether it is or not I can't say but whichever the case it certainly doesn't get the same attention.
A cursory search shows it is kind of used, but most of what comes up is reactionary and not medical.
It may have something to do with the rights of women and people with uteruses being actively attacked--and thus at the forefront of the discussion. I dunno, just maybe that's why we hear about it more often.
Your example includes what she's complaining about though? Institutions speaking to all people who have a uterus, and not just cisgender women who have them?
No one is stopping anyone from saying women need access to abortion either. We rightfully saw such calls and statements consistently during the removal of Roe vs. Wade.
This comes across way more snide than I hope you meant it.
Not really. As a trans woman who's recently gone through fertility preservation I can assure you that that side of things also has inclusive language. Perhaps consider it's more the case that you're not aware of all the areas that it comes up in.
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Trans people are 3-5 more times more likely to be the victim of a sex crime than cis women. Are you aware that many trans boys have uteruses?
Also, the overwhelming majority of trans people go out for women's rights and improvements to women's reproductive care. If you believe that the fight trans people are interested in is that language is perfect rather than that rights are protected and enforced, you're falling prey to right wing tactics to divide us.
I can see how this term, originally meant for inclusion could be brought up in ways to exclude a specific subsection of women, but I think to make this claim you have to be a bit more specific with examples of this happening on a notable scale.
For parallels, there are cases where black people have mentioned feeling alienated by a term like POC or BIPOC because their particular section of struggle has been neglected in public spaces in particular ways and have brought examples. But if that's been happening here, surrounding this term and cis women, that's something that needs receipts imo, otherwise this just devolves into semantics about language which we all know can be used in different ways
I'm beyond nauseated at all of this anti-trans shit that's been exploding lately. Really no words left.
I think it would be awesome if someone created a sticky'd thread and had resources for people to use like how to help/donate.
I think it would be awesome if someone created a sticky'd thread and had resources for people to use like how to help/donate.
OP
OP
Help save and improve the lives of those facing prostate cancer
This Prostate Cancer Awareness Month, help change the future of prostate cancer
cancer.ca
Atlas of the receptive anal sex experience among people with prostates - PubMed
People with prostates experience pleasure in multiple areas during RAI. Contrary to some lay literature, the prostate region is not the subjective pleasure center for all individuals. Timing and location of pain during RAI may inform areas for intervention. Providing a language for pleasure and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Prostate Cancer Research Highlights | Prostate Cancer News
Get the latest research highlights from our prostate cancer research conducted and funded through ACS grants.
www.cancer.org
The Urology Care Foundation Gears Up for Prostate Cancer Awareness Month
Experts available to discuss early detection and treatment of prostate cancer BALTIMORE, Sept. 1, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- About 248,000 men each year are told they have prostate cancer—that is one...
Prostatic Artery Embolization for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia: A Health Technology Assessment
Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is a noncancerous enlargement of the prostate that commonly affects older people with prostates and may lead to obstructive urinary symptoms. Symptoms may initially be mild but tend to worsen over time. Prostatic artery ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Preventing Prostate Cancer - Unlock Food
Prostate cancer is the most common cancer in Canadian men. About 1 in 8 men will develop prostate cancer in their lifetime. You can take steps to help lower your risk of developing prostrate cancer.
www.unlockfood.ca
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/prostate-exam-56b5047a3df78c0b13541797.jpg)
What Happens During a Prostate Exam?
Learn about what happens during a prostate exam, when one may be recommended, and what conditions it can help detect.
Love me some receipts.Help save and improve the lives of those facing prostate cancer
This Prostate Cancer Awareness Month, help change the future of prostate cancer
Atlas of the receptive anal sex experience among people with prostates - PubMed
People with prostates experience pleasure in multiple areas during RAI. Contrary to some lay literature, the prostate region is not the subjective pleasure center for all individuals. Timing and location of pain during RAI may inform areas for intervention. Providing a language for pleasure and...
Prostate Cancer Research Highlights | Prostate Cancer News
Get the latest research highlights from our prostate cancer research conducted and funded through ACS grants.
The Urology Care Foundation Gears Up for Prostate Cancer Awareness Month
Experts available to discuss early detection and treatment of prostate cancer BALTIMORE, Sept. 1, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- About 248,000 men each year are told they have prostate cancer—that is one...auanet.mediaroom.com
Prostatic Artery Embolization for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia: A Health Technology Assessment
Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is a noncancerous enlargement of the prostate that commonly affects older people with prostates and may lead to obstructive urinary symptoms. Symptoms may initially be mild but tend to worsen over time. Prostatic artery ...
Preventing Prostate Cancer - Unlock Food
Prostate cancer is the most common cancer in Canadian men. About 1 in 8 men will develop prostate cancer in their lifetime. You can take steps to help lower your risk of developing prostrate cancer.www.unlockfood.ca
What Happens During a Prostate Exam?
Learn about what happens during a prostate exam, when one may be recommended, and what conditions it can help detect.www.verywellhealth.com
Oh, I totally have. Perhaps it's because there isn't a huge political football surrounding some aspect of men's health, but there's definitely a trend of gender identity politics being warped by patriarchy, where inclusive language only (or mostly) seems to subsume women, leaving men alone.
I'm gonna tell you a secret. Or rather, I'm gonna tell you my secret: language when describing groups of people first and foremost in terms of "people with X organ" and "menstruators" is gross, icky, and honestly, specifically for this, why would trans women want to tie themselves so closely with men, anyway? They know they have prostates. They know what medical needs reach them. It'd also seem kinda weird, right? Like, imagine if trans women pushed so forcefully to make people say "people with prostates" just so they'd be as included on this discussion as much as men on an issue... that primarily affects men. Like, if there's some issue with trans women getting treatment for prostate cancer, then yeah, sure, raise that issue -- and really, that'd probably be an issue on its own, rather than a general "prostate cancer" issue -- but I don't think you'd have a bunch of trans women gung-ho about centering them in a conversation about a biological issue that nearly only affects men.
Let's put this another way: men can get breast cancer, too (about 1 in every 100 diagnosed cases of breast cancer are men, according to the CDC). But I think you'd -- rightly -- see heavy pushback against anyone trying to reframe this issue, this issue that so overwhelmingly affects women, in terms of "people with breasts."
OP
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I sure wish cis people would find a way to stop fucking "centering" us on every god damned thing. That would be fucking fantastic.
It's absolutely a medical term lol. Prostate cancer commercials used that term iirc.
Huh, well thanks. I guess I've just never had my radar up about it.Help save and improve the lives of those facing prostate cancer
This Prostate Cancer Awareness Month, help change the future of prostate cancer
Atlas of the receptive anal sex experience among people with prostates - PubMed
People with prostates experience pleasure in multiple areas during RAI. Contrary to some lay literature, the prostate region is not the subjective pleasure center for all individuals. Timing and location of pain during RAI may inform areas for intervention. Providing a language for pleasure and...
Prostate Cancer Research Highlights | Prostate Cancer News
Get the latest research highlights from our prostate cancer research conducted and funded through ACS grants.
The Urology Care Foundation Gears Up for Prostate Cancer Awareness Month
Experts available to discuss early detection and treatment of prostate cancer BALTIMORE, Sept. 1, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- About 248,000 men each year are told they have prostate cancer—that is one...
Prostatic Artery Embolization for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia: A Health Technology Assessment
Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is a noncancerous enlargement of the prostate that commonly affects older people with prostates and may lead to obstructive urinary symptoms. Symptoms may initially be mild but tend to worsen over time. Prostatic artery ...
Preventing Prostate Cancer - Unlock Food
Prostate cancer is the most common cancer in Canadian men. About 1 in 8 men will develop prostate cancer in their lifetime. You can take steps to help lower your risk of developing prostrate cancer.www.unlockfood.ca
What Happens During a Prostate Exam?
Learn about what happens during a prostate exam, when one may be recommended, and what conditions it can help detect.
This is nonsense. There are literally receipts about the use of "people with prostates" right above this post. And hey, if everyone is fucking aware that people with prostates need prostate checks then why the fuck do we still need to do awareness campaigns about them?
And there have already been multiple posts about why "people with a uterus" is a different group than "women". My wife doesn't have a uterus. My best friend's husband does. Maybe that's because there isn't a one to one overlap. Jesus christ gtfo with your terf defense talking points
Nobody says "Menstruating people" or "People with Uteruses" unless they're being inclusive in advertising or a medical professional.
You'd address a group of women as women, a group of men, as men. trans women are women, trans men are men. But guess what in both groups of women and trans men, there are those that do and don't have a uterus and those that do and don't get a period... So you adjust and correctly address those groups.
It should be noted that nearly all those examples, while using that specific terminology, come from organizations that still center men. Just click on through.
OP
OP
Because culture wars aren't fought there nearly as much... largely because the anti trans movement is entirely about framing women and children as victims of trans women, that's why trans women are presented as Predators and Trans Men as Victims.
The entire reason pregnant people catches fire in the culture war is a lot of fucking idiots think this is about including Trans Women not Trans Men... because they're fucking idiots.
I guess what confuses me here is that I was under the impression this was used in medical contexts mostly.
Sure, it'd be weird if we had a society where people walked around and referred to those without appendices as "non appendix havers" but it's not wrong for a doctor to mark you down as "doesn't have an appendix" and prescribe treatment and medical advice based on that.
I mean again it's not impossible for the Right to co-opt this somehow for sone devious purpose but again I don't think we have a lot of that happening here rn
You can maybe have a debate about how useful inclusive language is or isn't which would still be fucking ridiculous because inclusive language doesn't hurt anyone but my god are the tweets in the op dripping with condescension and smugness. I will never understand why people get so pressed about very mild shifts in language.
oh that's good
oh that's good
Literally only the Canadian Cancer Society one centers men, but also still refers to them as people with prostates.
I'm not sure how closely you followed the abortion debate in the US, but there was some very heavy pushback about how news organizations and reporters talked about this issue. A lot of people wanted journalists to stop saying "pregnant women" in place of "people with uteruses," and it drove me -- and many others -- up a wall. It's okay to just say "pregnant women" when talking about abortion.
The "People with Uteruses" pushback was a rightwing grift, the inclusive language that most people use is "Pregnant people"
I think a lot of your anecdotal experience is because trans men are often ignored in the transphobic discourse. TERFs tend to just pretend they don't exist when making their garbage arguments against trans rights.
but when we are talking about abortion we are not just talking about cis women. when you know your audience it's one thing, but when you are speaking in the broadest terms we shouldn't only be discussing these issues as relating only to cis women. the problem is she is taking general, inclusive language and making it about an attack on her specifically.
ok i was dumb for trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, you are just spewing transphobic bullshit
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