Attempting to post this as delicately as possible...thoughts on this line in Taylor Swift's new song?

[Stuggernaut]

Wait... what am I missing here. Are people upset because she only mentions racism vs all the other horrible shit that was prevalent back then? Or is she not supposed to talk about racism for whatever reason?

I've never put much stock in her lyrical poetry vs catchy rhymes and hooks...so what are people expecting here?

 

[Nida]

Btw the problem with the line is not that it sounds racist, it's because it's a white girl randomly and casually throwing racial struggles on a song without actually having anything to say about it just to show how much of an ally she is.

Like, she could have achieved the same thing by just talking about sexism at the time which she's in a position to talk about genuinely since she's a woman, but no, she must appropriate PoC's experiences because everyone must know how much she cares about them.

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Would talking about children pining for a bygone era of America without mentioning slavery sort of be rose-tinted glasses? You don't think people would be livid at her for not pointing out something so monstrous, no matter her background?

 

[NekoCat]

Yeah, as others have said, the context makes it clear that she's just criticizing the idea of romanticizing a problematic past. But it is pretty clumsy and awkward.

 

[deimosmasque]

they idolize the 50s cuz it was post war, women had to leave their jobs and get back in the kitchen, and the hippies didnt 'ruin' everything yet

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Yeah but it's all Civil War now. Back before the women ever got out of the kitchen.

 

[Ashionok]

the line in itself isn't bad, its definitely written pretty awkward though

 

[Volimar]

Btw the problem with the line is not that it sounds racist, it's because it's a white girl randomly and casually throwing racial struggles on a song without actually having anything to say about it just to show how much of an ally she is.

Like, she could have achieved the same thing by just talking about sexism at the time which she's in a position to talk about genuinely since she's a woman, but no, she must appropriate PoC's experiences because everyone must know how much she cares about them.

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It's not that she's trying to show she's an ally. She's poking holes in that childish fantasy that we have weird weekend threads about all the time. It's not about the racism, and it wouldn't be about sexism if she said that instead. It's about that ignorance of the past that we could change one thing and then just plop ourselves down and it would be so romantic with the horses and the corsets and whatnot. But reality isn't that simple.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Btw the problem with the line is not that it sounds racist, it's because it's a white girl randomly and casually throwing racial struggles on a song without actually having anything to say about it just to show how much of an ally she is.

Like, she could have achieved the same thing by just talking about sexism at the time which she's in a position to talk about genuinely since she's a woman, but no, she must appropriate PoC's experiences because everyone must know how much she cares about them.

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It's not really a random line though, based on the full verse. The very next line is about women being sold off for marriage. The lyrics are cheesy as fuck, but there's a purpose to it beyond looking like an ally.

 

[WardFail]

Btw the problem with the line is not that it sounds racist, it's because it's a white girl randomly and casually throwing racial struggles on a song without actually having anything to say about it just to show how much of an ally she is.

Like, she could have achieved the same thing by just talking about sexism at the time which she's in a position to talk about genuinely since she's a woman, but no, she must appropriate PoC's experiences because everyone must know how much she cares about them.

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Honestly I think she probably threw in the racist part so the narrative wouldn't be that she wanted to go back to 1830's to have a live in maid and owning people to work her land. Meh, I personally don't see anything wrong with the line or the song but it's awkwardly put in.

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

I could see the interpretation that she's minimizing the industrial system of slavery to "racism", which definitely feels glib. Also rich entitled white person leveraging black oppression for dramatic effect. I could see how it would make people uncomfortable. I'm a white, cishet, able-bodied male living in another country and it still rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Leo]

Would talking about children pining for a bygone era of America without mentioning slavery sort of be rose-tinted glasses? You don't think people would be livid at her for not pointing out something so monstrous, no matter her background?

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Honestly, it would be just her talking about her experience. Other struggles notwithstanding, she doesn't want to go back to the 1830 because she's experienced sexism and she knows it was much worse back then. Don't really see how anyone would have a problem with that, it's not like she would be denying racism existed just because she didn't mention it.

What makes this line more hilariously bad and shallow is that, at a time when Swift though it was a good move for her, this was her take on an era where colonialism and slavery was okay:


View: https://youtu.be/IdneKLhsWOQ?si=O6_jxSbi3kbx9iNc

 

[WardFail]

It's not that she's trying to show she's an ally. She's poking holes in that childish fantasy that we have weird weekend threads about all the time. It's not about the racism, and it wouldn't be about sexism if she said that instead. It's about that ignorance of the past that we could change one thing and then just plop ourselves down and it would be so romantic with the horses and the corsets and whatnot. But reality isn't that simple.

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I think this is it entirely it right here. I don't think she needs to add linear notes or release a dissertation to the song to remind us that your experiences of the thoughts evoked in the song may differ based on your race, creed or religion.

 

[ArchedThunder]

OP needs the full verse, the line removed from context completely changes the meaning.

 

[Messofanego]

I think using the 1830s as an example is weird because I know virtually nobody being nostalgic for that time period. There's racists that idolize the Civil War because of the Confederacy, but I don't even know if racists are reminiscing for that decade in particular. Other than that it's fine, just poorly written like a lot of her music

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People still get married at plantations (like Ryan Reynolds). There are slave cabin Airbnbs. Conservatives still go on about the southern strategy and the lost cause. There is plenty of nostalgia for that period.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Wait... what am I missing here. Are people upset because she only mentions racism vs all the other horrible shit that was prevalent back then? Or is she not supposed to talk about racism for whatever reason?

I've never put much stock in her lyrical poetry vs catchy rhymes and hooks...so what are people expecting here?

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She's not even doing that as this is the very next line

"And getting married off for the highest bid"

The whole point of the verse is criticizing the nostalgia some people cook up about different times in the past.

 

[Volimar]

I could see the interpretation that she's minimizing the industrial system of slavery to "racism", which definitely feels glib. Also rich entitled white person leveraging black oppression for dramatic effect. I could see how it would make people uncomfortable. I'm a white, cishet, able-bodied male living in another country and it still rubs me the wrong way.

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But that's not what she's doing. She's saying how wrong she was for having that childish fantasy where she could go back and fix the thing that she really didn't understand when she was young. Do you really think she's consciously boiling down all the sexism that happened then with the line about being married off to the highest bid? It's about how people romanticize these times and think in their ignorance that it was a wonderful time if not for the one switch they would flip. The point is that now she knows that it wasn't just racism or marrying women off that made those times bad.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's a bit awkward and corny but that tweet cut out the rest of the verse, eliminating the clear context behind the line.

She's looking back on those thoughts she had when she was younger in a negative light.

The OP should probably be updated with the full verse as well.

 

[Ferrio]

Seems pretty cut and dry, saying those days sucked and most people would be miserable.

Interesting mental exercise is trying to figure out how many times you would have died back then compared to now. I can easily think of 5+ times in my life (including my birth), and that's not taking into random colds/flus I got.

 

[Blindside]

As yes, Twitter: the first place I think to go to for in-depth discussion of lines within context.

(It is arguable that Twitter is one of the biggest reasons context collapse exists, alongside social media in general.)

 

[Volimar]

As yes, Twitter: the first place I think to go to for in-depth discussion of lines within context.

(It is arguable that Twitter is one of the biggest reasons context collapse exists, alongside social media in general.)

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It was even worse with the old character limit. At least now you can unroll tweet threads.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

One of the worst lines in the album. Like so bad that I was listening to it as background music, and I heard it, and went "what in the fuck?"

 

[ClickyCal']

OP needs the full verse, the line removed from context completely changes the meaning.

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It's a bit awkward and corny but that tweet cut out the rest of the verse, eliminating the clear context behind the line.

She's looking back on those thoughts she had when she was younger in a negative light.

The OP should probably be updated with the full verse as well.

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Added in the full verse.

 

[Ashionok]

yeah, twitter definitely isn't the place to find meaningful discussion about this stuff lol.

 

[louisacommie]

As a black person, I would love to go back to those times without the racism involved. Thats always my disqualifier when we have these discussions .

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I don't know if I could time travel and destroy racism as some cheat power thing I would want to deal later in the timeline, I mean it be fun to wipe out the British empire whenever plus if its the 1930s you get rid of the nazis too

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

But that's not what she's doing. She's saying how wrong she was for having that childish fantasy where she could go back and fix the thing that she really didn't understand when she was young. Do you really think she's consciously boiling down all the sexism that happened then with the line about being married off to the highest bid? It's about how people romanticize these times and think in their ignorance that it was a wonderful time if not for the one switch they would flip. The point is that now she knows that it wasn't just racism or marrying women off that made those times bad.

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I appreciate that was her intent, but it doesn't undo how clunky the line feels, nor does the artist's intent negate how it makes the listener feel.

 

[Nida]

If she does decide to become more politically involved this kind of thing is going to be rampant.

Not that people won't have valid reasons to take issue with her, I just see the right trying to poison her image.

And this comes from someone who is Swift ignorant.

 

[BabyDontHurtMe]

People still get married at plantations (like Ryan Reynolds). There are slave cabin Airbnbs. Conservatives still go on about the southern strategy and the lost cause. There is plenty of nostalgia for that period.

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I (stupidly) haven't considered that. That's definitely worth calling out then.

 

[dejay]

Oh look, it's doom-scrolling's first cousin; outrage-scrolling.

A - The line is fine in context
B - She's talking about a childhood experience.
C - She mentions being married off to the highest bidder in the very next line; it's not just about the non-white experience.

This is typical social media cherry picking for bait.

 

[Leveean]

Btw the problem with the line is not that it sounds racist, it's because it's a white girl randomly and casually throwing racial struggles on a song without actually having anything to say about it just to show how much of an ally she is.

Like, she could have achieved the same thing by just talking about sexism at the time which she's in a position to talk about genuinely since she's a woman, but no, she must appropriate PoC's experiences because everyone must know how much she cares about them.

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I'm having a hard time grasping how a brief callout of racism is "appropriating PoC experiences".

 

[Leo]

I'm having a hard time grasping how a brief callout of racism is "appropriating PoC experiences".

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Not saying this particular line is hugely problematic, just saying it's gratuitous shallow posturing, like a lot of things she does.

 

[gdt]

Think it's fine, and works in context.

Corny or clunky line or two is fine. Can't win then all.

 

[Sleuth Semanticist]

Yea I mean as I kid I fantasized about living in all sorts of past eras. I still think it'd be cool as shit to be a time-traveling tourist

But as an adult I also understand that in many points in time I'd wanna check out I wouldn't be safe, for any number of reasons

I can understand the lyric raising questions, but I don't think the sentiment is objectionable, even if expressed poorly. It's ultimately a lyric in a pop song.

 

[Blader]

Seems pretty clearly about the fallacy of nostalgia than actually wanting to live in the 1830s. That said, the songwriting on this album seems pretty bad.

People still get married at plantations (like Ryan Reynolds). There are slave cabin Airbnbs. Conservatives still go on about the southern strategy and the lost cause. There is plenty of nostalgia for that period.

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Not to be a pedant about it, but the lost cause was about the Confederacy. And the southern strategy is something else entirely (that's Nixon lol)

 

[Leo]

People still get married at plantations (like Ryan Reynolds). There are slave cabin Airbnbs. Conservatives still go on about the southern strategy and the lost cause. There is plenty of nostalgia for that period.

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When I was in college I visited a plantation on Louisiana as part of the landscape architecture program because they had a nice garden there or something. The stupid asshole who owned the placed and walked us through it spent the whole time talking about how those were great times and how the whole slavery thing is hugely exaggerated. He even mentioned they contacted him about shooting Jango there, but he didn't agree to it because he thought he script was biased and historically inaccurate.

 

[Dyle]

Even in the least charitable reading at least it's not as bad as Grimes actually living out her Huck Finn fantasy

 

[Fat4all]

He even mentioned they contacted him about shooting Jango there, but he didn't agree to it because he thought he script was biased and historically inaccurate.

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i doubt they gave him the script to read, sounds like horse shit he says to sound smug

at least it's not as bad as Grimes actually living out her Huck Finn fantasy

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lol

 

[Precious Tritium]

Seems fine in the context of the song. Saying she's advocating for being a trad wife is crazy.

 

[EchizenKurage]

Its a little awkward but I dont see the problem with not wanting racists in your time travel fantasy.

 

[Scottt]

RhymeZone: racists

 

[horkrux]

But if the romantization is built on a lie and you know this, why would you pick that time in the first place? Makes no sense. It's like you're only mentioning 1830 to follow it up with the criticism, because other people might often mention that time unironically. But then it's no longer about what time YOU want to go back to at all.

Weird

 

[EchizenKurage]

RhymeZone: racists

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Lol

 

[Fat4all]

RhymeZone: racists

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lol

 

[Trey]

she wants that bridgerton life, sounds about right

 

[Complicated]

Seems like she's just venting about how dumb her friends were when she was young as well as against the lure of nostalgia and simple narratives about the world. Pretty meh, but I guess it's spicy for someone as mainstream as her.

 

[Tuck]

Seems fine to me in context? She's basically saying it's easy to romanticize the past but it was actually quite shitty.

Still a bad song, and I don't think the lyrics are particularly good, but I also don't think they are promblematic, personally.

 

[Mattmo831]

I was told this was the songwriter of the century


Lyrics are not problematic though if that's what you're asking. Just shit writing

 

[Joe]

I think using the 1830s as an example is weird because I know virtually nobody being nostalgic for that time period. There's racists that idolize the Civil War because of the Confederacy, but I don't even know if racists are reminiscing for that decade in particular. Other than that it's fine, just poorly written like a lot of her music

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If you think there aren't a ton of people nostalgically romanticizing the early 19th century, I don't know what to tell you. A person could be buried alive beneath the number of romance book pages set in that era.

 

[JayCB64]

And here I thought it was just her fans who over analysed her lyrics, apparently those who don't like her are out for a few "Gotcha's" too, keeping it classy.

 

[MIMIC]

Seems like an awkward line but I don't see the problem (I'm black).

 

[ClickyCal']

And here I thought it was just her fans who over analysed her lyrics, apparently those who don't like her are out for a few "Gotcha's" too, keeping it classy.

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I actually do like her, not a swifty though. Didn't make thread to hate. Legitimately was wondering. My partner thought it was a bit odd, so I wanted to see.

 

[Bionic]

In the song "Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?" on the new album, Taylor sings the word:

narcotics

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Wow, endorse taking drugs much??? In the middle of an opioid crisis, she sings about freaking narcotics. Get this woman out of here #taylorsmithisoverparty