They werent okay in the 1700s either but that probably didnt stop people back then . Whats your point? At what specific point in humanity's time line should everyone have instantly known better? Cant we just be happy they've matured?
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Attn Kevin Hart! Even Family Guy is Doing it Better than You: Family Guy 'phasing out' gay jokes because they are no longer 'acceptable'
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
I get that some people won't like this statement, but as long as its not openly insulting (i.e. not really a joke meaning they knew no one would laugh) then I am of the belief that in comedy nothing can be off limits. The greats of comedy didn't keep anything off the board. Look at guys like George Carlin, Sam Kinison and Robin Williams, they didn't censor themselves from any topics because that is comedy. To make us laugh at the dark and morbid topics that we all deal with on a daily basis, to bring some light to that darkness, and sometimes make people look at things in a way that they didn't before (i.e. showing how ridiculous some people's logic is, but this isn't in all cases). To me when we start to sensor comedy and tell people what they can and can't laugh about we will kill comedy and there will be no more light in the darkness of the world.
Jesus, this is a stupid comment. You wanna apply that to racism and sexism too? "Gosh when is enough enough already just be thankful you aren't getting lynched anymore!"
George Carlin frequently punched up, not down. Shitting on minorities in your comedy isn't comedy. Saying you'll beat your kid for being gay isn't comedy.
Also, that last sentence is obnoxious and you should feel terrible for writing it.
They still make new episodes and it's still popular.
It's actually had some good stuff the past couple years. Bounced back a bit.
Yeah, gay jokes on Family Guy are remotely similar to being lynched, sure. And I made the stupid, hyperbolic comment.
My point is that humanity are animals and we have millennia of disgusting attitudes and actions to back that up under our belt. I don't expect the best of what we can offer from humans hundreds of years ago. Should people have been better in 2005 like the other poster said? Ideally, but that's not how progress works.
Expecting someone to grow up after 10 years isn't difficult. Especially when you're picked to host an important event where LGBT people and/or LGBT media is up for awards.
Kevin Hart has proven that he's learned nothing from this.
I mean, honestly, I think you can make jokes involving whatever, but in addition to being offensively punching down and attacking minorities, a lot of what Family Guy does is also shitty jokes that are nothing BUT that. Like, in addition to being really crappy and hurtful to a vulnerable group of people, jokes that hinge entirely on "ew, trans people are gross, right guys?" are pretty terrible jokes regardless, even ignoring how highly problematic they are. Stuff like that is just awful, awful "comedy" all around, and I don't think anyone should be lamenting it going away.
?? I wasn't even talking about Hart..... I'm not a fan to start with and I'd expect the same as you from him. I was talking about Family Guy.
Isn't the point of family guy to give everyone shit? Prejudice equality or what ever? If you give everyone shit it's not a big deal imo. I don't care if they remove it, never rly cared for the show but i mean its a seemingly arbitrary decision in the grand scheme of things imo. Could of removed middle eastern jokes instead and it would be the same. I don't understand the decision.
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No that's south park.
Family guys point is to entertain those with a bad sense of humour
Ive not once heard anything from Kevin Hart saying he would beat his kid for being gay. Where did I say that beating your kid in any sense was ok? And in the time of the tweets that Hart is getting attacked for it wasn't as socially bad to use the terms he used. I specifically said excluding anything that was not intended as a joke that they knew people wouldn't laugh.
I am very anti-censorship and will never be convinced that humor and laughter doesn't bring joy to the world we live in that has A LOT of bad in it. I may have been a bit heavy handed on it, I'll give you that much, but the point still stands that humor helps people in dark times.
I don't like Family Guy's humor either and I would classify that quote as not even attempting to be a joke and openly homophobic (as I said in my original post I think that crosses a line into insulting and not being comedy). But the other extreme is some people say you can not say any jokes that involve a gay person, or even the gay community (and not as lazy as Family Guy may) in a legitimate joke, even if they are not in the focus of the joke. There is a line where it goes from comedy to insulting/bullying. Most comics know where that line is.
I brought this point up during the Oscar debate, and not really to defend Hart as much as to point out the hipocracy since Seth hosted only a few years ago and was still making homophobic/transphopic jokes on Family Guy as recently as the last season.
I have never understood why Era hates family guy so much. If anything they bring to light how racist and white supremacist some part of the US are.
The abortion episode is the best way to explain the people against it, why their arguments do not make sense. The skin check even ends with ok but why is Iran the bad guy when SA was the one who attacked the USA?
It makes sense. Many people say you are gay because you have a chose to, but the episode is about telling you being Gay is not something you chose, but who you are. Peter was terrified afterwards because he had 12 dudes on top of him.
The abortion episode is the best way to explain the people against it, why their arguments do not make sense. The skin check even ends with ok but why is Iran the bad guy when SA was the one who attacked the USA?
It makes sense. Many people say you are gay because you have a chose to, but the episode is about telling you being Gay is not something you chose, but who you are. Peter was terrified afterwards because he had 12 dudes on top of him.
I'ma stop you right there. Calling someone a "fag" has never been okay. It was never socially okay. It definitely wasn't OK in 2009/2010.
Also, there is literally a comedy special where one of his bits is that if he came across his son playing with a dollhouse, that he'd take the dollhouse and break it over his son's head.
This isn't censorship. Free speech has always had consequences -- if your speech isn't acceptable in mainstream culture, you will be shamed for it. It's only "censorship" if you get jailed for it.
There are plenty of ways to incorporate gay jokes into your comedy. Would you like me to find you some standup examples that include humor about gay people but don't punch down?
Explain to me how "I would hit my son if he was gay" brings joy to gay people.
Hmm he stopped making gay jokes because he claims he grew up and matured, I'm assuming the same with Family Guy
I mean they still make jokes about how trans people are disgusting and monsters and frequent jokes on Quaqmire being a sexual predator so this show can still fuck off into the sun and explode.
User Banned (1 Week): Excusing transphobic rhetoric
*shrug* I laughed.
I hadn't heard that bit before, for the record not saying he didn't say it, and without context I find it to be in bad taste. And yes speech has consequences, but for people calling for his career to be ruined for statements made years ago seems a bit out of place. You may say it wasn't socially acceptable to use the term "fag" in 2009 and that may be true for your area/friend group. But there are many groups/places that used it (usually as an insult) very often in 2009. And using "gay" was used till very recently as slag (granted this was mostly by high school age people). Was it right, no, but was it done, yes.
The main point I'm trying to make is judge him on what he says and does now when it comes to social and cultural norms. If we held everyone to today's standard for things they did in the past most people over the age of 25 would be in trouble now.
I have already addressed that quote, I hadn't heard him say that, someone put what he said. If that was all the joke was about I would agree that it is in bad taste and not funny.
I dont think its about that joke specificalky, but the episode itself. Peter gets Muslim friends, proceeds to immediately convert to Islam and gets recruited into a terrorist organisation 5 seconds later
That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see how it pays off!
Of anyone who has interviewed him about this situation, the only question that hasn't been asked is if he'd still beat his kid for being gay. And his overall response to the situation is that he hasn't really changed at all. We shouldn't be giving homophobes opportunities for success.
The oft-cited example of what's going on now is Eddie Murphy. However, Eddie Murphy publicly went on record apologizing for his terrible AIDS jokes he made in the 80s. He did it without making himself the victim.
There are still many, many ways to provide good comedy. Going for the easy punching down of minorities isn't funny -- nor has it ever really been. There's a video by The Escapist called "The Big Picture" that they put out on Youtube recently. It's something I recommend you watch.
I was like this before before until I realized the best comedy knows its time and place. I don't think its about censorship, but how much better it can be with the right amount of context and timing.
but yeah, like others said punching down is usually a low move.
Not saying what Kevin said was right, or defending his stance on that. And would definitely agree he is handling all of this TERRIBLY and should have gone the route of Eddie Murphy.
I don't know where my statements have been misconstrued to think that I find punching down or insulting marginalized people to be the funniest thing. There are bad jokes, but the intention of the joke should be taken into consideration. If they had animosity towards the subject to me that is bullying and not really comedy and there are VERY VERY few cases where punching down is funny or ok (only thing I can think of is to stop a heckler and even then you are flirting with crossing the line).
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How do you know why Family Guy is doing it? Or really why Hart did? They could both go either way, frankly. I don't see a clear distinction between these two cases.
And I would agree that punching down isn't usually the right move. I don't think a comic could go on stage and make gay jokes and do well in most cases in today's society, and in my opinion that is a good sign for our society on that stance.
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Because we have them on the record saying why.
Hart: things are too sensitive these days
FG: we want to change
FG could be full of shit, but they address it better than Hart ever did.
And that's the joke of it all. This isn't hard.
I'm glad it comes from understanding, rather than "people are too easily offended". I can also relate to this change a bit. As I remember long time ago being a huge fan of very edgy humour, I laughed at basically anything. Without thinking how much someone can be hurt by it or how it enforces harmful stereotypes. Then at first my reaction changed to "oh no, somebody will be angry about this". And finally it came to "That's not funny". Now of course I still laugh to some dark humour, but I've definitely changed. And have much better understanding why it's not always "just a joke".
Oh well, I guess they haven't changed that much then.
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Hart said that recently about the backlash from his old comments, but he phased them out long before then and never really called it out or made a big thing about it at the time.
But taking FG at their word like that seems generous. One wouldn't simply say "I'm being cynical and doing this because of public perception."
Sure, I think it depends on the punchline though. I'm sure gay comedians in example manage to do funny jokes about their sexuality even. Or black comedians with funny observations about black culture, there's been plenty of those. But then there are jokes that perpetuate harmful stereotypes or mock.
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I'm not even. My point is they're saying it better, regardless if they mean it.
They're saying they want to stop, Hart was saying people are too sensitive so I have to stop.
My framing is entirely about how utterly embarrassing it is that the Producer's of fucking Family Guy are better at PR on homophobia than Kevin Hart.
A quote from that article: "The executive producers of Family Guyhave said the crude animated show has begun "trying to phase out" gay jokes."
What? Trying to phase out gay jokes? Rather than just, you know, stopping making gay jokes immediately?
Also, Family Guy is absolutely dreadful shit.
What? Trying to phase out gay jokes? Rather than just, you know, stopping making gay jokes immediately?
Also, Family Guy is absolutely dreadful shit.