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NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,388
When it comes to superheroes, for the majority of people the immediate characters that always come to mind are the classics such as Superman, Iron Man, Captain America and the like. Sadly it's rare that a superhero who isn't a straight white male will ever be mentioned. However, the team at Crystal Dynamics decided that they're going to flip the script when it comes to Marvel's Avengers. Despite this being an Avengers game, not a single one of them is truly the lead in the campaign. The hero of this story is Kamala Khan, a.k.a Ms Marvel, the first Muslim American-Pakistani hero in the Marvel universe - making this game pretty huge for Muslims around the world, including myself.

Representation is something that people of colour and folks from different faiths have been wanting in video games for as long as I can remember. It's something that we've started to slowly see an increase of in recent years with the likes of Overwatch adding Ana Amari, an Egyptian character who wears a hijab, and even Call of Duty: Modern Warfare attempted to break away from its stereotypical representation of Arabs and Muslims by letting you play an Arab soldier called Farrah in the singleplayer campaign.

However, we've never really had a triple-A game where being Muslim was a core part of a lead character, so when I started playing the campaign of Marvel Avengers, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Kamala Khan wasn't just a side character to the Avengers, in fact it was quite the opposite! The Avengers were the side characters to Kamala Khan's story. This was very much a Ms. Marvel story.

In the very first hour of Marvel Avengers that authentic perspective that Amanat wanted immediately comes into play. Within minutes I instantly started to feel that representation that I very rarely get from games. The moments where Kamala refers to her father as Abu and when her father calls her Beta instantly made me connect with her. I had flashes of my aunty calling me Beta whenever she'd come visit me, and memories of seeing her call her father Abu whenever we had massive family gatherings for Eid. But it doesn't stop there, as there's another moment later in the opening where Abu is asking Kamala if she wants to go to the Mosque with the family, and it just made me think of my own mum every Friday asking me whether I'd like to go with her for the Friday prayer. It's just all these small moments that really bring forward the representation that Muslims like me have been craving to see in a video game.

More: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-09-07-avengers-kamala-khan-is-this-years-most-important-hero
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,313
Kamala reprenstation is great, even if I have my issues with the writing of the character.
But I gotta be honest, I played almost 10 hours of this game and if I didn't knew she was Muslim beforehand, I wouldn't have known playing the game.

Edit : Looks like it just flew over my head. I need to pay more attention lol
 
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Menome

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,434
I've loved Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel ever since she was introduced back in 2014, and I urge anybody who has been introduced to her by the game, to go and read her series from its beginning. It's one of the few "New Heroes" Marvel has gotten 100% on-point, on level with Miles Morales.
 

Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
I think it's lovely people get representations of their daily life, besides inclusivity it does make for a better, more interesting narrative if you get to make your characters feel like real people with their routines and chores.
That said, as a spaniard, I'd love it if spanish representation had no churches nearby.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,854
Sandra Saad was on Kevin Smith's Fatman Beyond and they casted the right person, she's fantastic and is very much like Kamala.

Starts at the 28 minute mark.

I would be down if she played the live action version as well, if she's interested.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
I like her very much so far.

Kamala reprenstation is great, even if I have my issues with the writing of the character.
But I gotta be honest, I played almost 10 hours of this game and if I didn't knew she was Muslim beforehand, I wouldn't have known playing the game.

Her talking about the burkini her mom gave her (because muslim women use them for sport (she explains in the game)) was the first time they talked about it directly imo.
 

JeffJeff

Member
Jul 13, 2020
66
Kamala reprenstation is great, even if I have my issues with the writing of the character.
But I gotta be honest, I played almost 10 hours of this game and if I didn't knew she was Muslim beforehand, I wouldn't have known playing the game.

They talk about it right after the intro mission, just before she sneaks out to her secret base.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
"But she's not in the movies and no one knows her!"

Or whatever dumb shit people were composing about when she was announced as the lead.

Love Kamala and can't wait for her D+ show.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,411
Kamala reprenstation is great, even if I have my issues with the writing of the character.
But I gotta be honest, I played almost 10 hours of this game and if I didn't knew she was Muslim beforehand, I wouldn't have known playing the game.
I knew next to nothing about her outside of seeing pictures of her and I found out by playing the game.
 

IHaveIce

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,759
I've loved Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel ever since she was introduced back in 2014, and I urge anybody who has been introduced to her by the game, to go and read her series from its beginning. It's one of the few "New Heroes" Marvel has gotten 100% on-point, on level with Miles Morales.
I would argue that Kamala is even better written than Miles
 

Menome

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,434
Kamala reprenstation is great, even if I have my issues with the writing of the character.
But I gotta be honest, I played almost 10 hours of this game and if I didn't knew she was Muslim beforehand, I wouldn't have known playing the game.

She calls her father "Abu", the post A-Day section starts off with her father asking if she wants to join her friends going to a Prayer-Camp weekend held by the local mosque. She talks about the fact her costume incorporates a burkini. This is all in the first few hours. 🤷‍♀️


I guess the French dub made some changes then because I really don't remember ?

Okay, can't speak for the French translation/localisation. They might have not carried it across quite as well?
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,737
Germany
Sandra Saad was on Kevin Smith's Fatman Beyond and they casted the right person, she's fantastic and is very much like Kamala.

Starts at the 28 minute mark.

I would be down if she played the live action version as well, if she's interested.


Yeah. She was a great choice for casting. I hope they continue this with Black Panther etc.
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,313
She calls her father "Abu", the post A-Day section starts off with her father asking if she wants to join her friends going to a Prayer-Camp weekend held by the local mosque. She talks about the fact her costume incorporates a burkini. This is all in the first few hours. 🤷‍♀️

I've never heard any of my muslim friends call their father Abu so I thought that was a Pakistani thing.
If the character resonated with the right people, then that's all good. I was just trying to say that it didn't feel obvious when I played.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,310
Greater Vancouver
I would argue that Kamala is even better written than Miles
If we're talking comics, she's drastically better written than Miles. In no small part to the fact that she was written by a muslim woman vs Bendis trying to write a kid in a biracial household to replace Peter came out extremely fucking flat with no truly driving stories. Even in the PS4 game, he felt so blandly underwritten. Spider-Verse was the best thing that could have happened to that character, and brought so much life and idealism and power to him.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I didn't care about her before the game, now I do.

i think it stemmed from me thinking I had to play as her the whole game. She definitely has some great moments and lines. Her abilities and move set are great.
 

Hakimy

Member
Nov 9, 2017
550
I don't know why people in Western media use the word "Abu" in a wrong way. In arabic "Abu" usually means the "father of". My name is Mohammed so people give my father a nickname of "Abu Mohammed". If I had a son called Omar people will call me "Abu Omar" and so on. Sometimes it used to to describe things related to a certain person like if he is known for doing good deeds we call him "father of the good deeds" or like he is so generous so we say "father of generosity" or in our language "Abu Al Karam" but nobody is called "Abu" just like that. Not sure if Pakistanis use it this way but since the word is actually Arabic this is how we use it in the Arab world. Using the word "Abu" alone doesn't make sense.

Edit: thanks to the people who corrected me 👍🏻
 
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Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,583
Germany
Kamala reprenstation is great, even if I have my issues with the writing of the character.
But I gotta be honest, I played almost 10 hours of this game and if I didn't knew she was Muslim beforehand, I wouldn't have known playing the game.
You wouldn't have known from her father saying she was supposed to go to the Muslim Girls retreat or from her DIY costume being made from a Burkini which she says (direct quote) "Is something Muslim athletes like to wear"?

edit: just saw you were playing in French, so yeah the translation might have been weird. They definitely mention her being muslim multiple times in the English translation
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Yeah, so I've got alot of respect for this aspect of the game. Real good stuff from SE.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
The article is pretty good, until the very end at least. What is it with gamers and having to be so "fair-minded" when it comes to evaluating their art? Why was it necessary to bring up that the game has issues and jank, when closing out perhaps one of this year's most important arguments? Is the singular focus and celebration of seeing representation realized in a game just not allowed?
 

Fezan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,274
As much as I like seeing Kamla in high profile game I also wish they should have chosen the right voice actress for the role. Not every brown Muslim character is Arab
 

Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,920
London
I like her very much so far.



Her talking about the burkini her mom gave her (because muslim women use them for sport (she explains in the game)) was the first time they talked about it directly imo.
Her dad talks about a retreat with the girls from the mosque too. It's there but it's not at the forefront. Which isn't a bad thing in my opinion.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
The article is pretty good, until the very end at least. What is it with gamers and having to be so "fair-minded" when it comes to evaluating their art? Why was it necessary to bring up that the game has issues and jank, when closing out perhaps one of this year's most important arguments? Is the singular focus and celebration of seeing representation realized in a game just not allowed?
I agree that it doesn't need that caveat but I'm guessing it's a pre-emptive argument ahead of the comments that a game doesn't have to be seen as the best thing in the world when it comes to design and technical issues by someone to have elements of it that are worthy of high praise.
 

The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland
I don't know why people in Western media use the word "Abu" in a wrong way. In arabic "Abu" usually means the "father of". My name is Mohammed so people give my father a nickname of "Abu Mohammed". If I had a son called Omar people will call me "Abu Omar" and so on. Sometimes it used to to describe things related to a certain person like if he is known for doing good deeds we call him "father of the good deeds" or like he is so generous so we say "father of generosity" or in our language "Abu Al Karam" but nobody is called "Abu" just like that. Not sure if Pakistanis use it this way but since the word is actually Arabic this is how we use it in the Arab world. Using the word "Abu" alone doesn't make sense.
Yes, that is how we use it. In Urdu (and various languages in the country) it's an Arabic loanword which only means father. So it's not a case of people in Western media using it wrong; it's a case where the word exists in many languages and they're using it correctly here for their character (Kamala is of Pakistani background).
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,657
Kamala is easily the most likeable character I've seen in a game in quite some time. It's a pretty huge thing for a Pakastani woman to be the main protagonist in a AAA game like this. She really is the driving force of the narrative. The final action sequence of the campaign nearly had me jump out of my chair in excitement. Campaign is legit so good. And that is due in large part to Kamala. If this campaign was just 10 hours of the Avengers being dysfunctional and yelling at each other. I'd probably have tapped out.
 

Mandalorian

Alt account
Banned
Jun 18, 2020
1,171
I wholeheartedly agree this. I am not Muslim. I am a Brazilian PoC that knows exactly what it means being poorly represented in the mainstream media, and I can't stress enough how much of a powerful character Ms. Marvel aka Kamala Khan is. And I am not talking just about power levels, although she is pretty powerful in the game. I'm talking about how precious her character arc is, how important and bold it is that they have made Kamala not just one of the Avengers, but the heart of this story and, well, this iteration of the Avengers. We can discuss power levels, Metacritic scores and GOTY lists all day, but trust me on this one: I'm happy to know that one of my favorite games of the year features a Muslim girl that reminds a lot of myself growing up, a nerd just trying to do good because that is the right thing to do, regardless how corny that is.



Representation matters.

And Crystal Dynamics, if you are listening, my guy Sunspot could use some love as well:

deodato-sunspot.jpg
 

Ser_Luke

Self-requested ban
Banned
Apr 30, 2019
822
Very slightly off topic but, I can't wait for her series on Disney+ I hope the rumors about Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel for it and acting as a mentor for her are true.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
23,859
Quite a lovable character, Kamala and Her dad are well cast in the game and don't fall into those very south asian stereotypes, I'm glad that they did justice to that. I was honestly very worried!
 

Kaivan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
Absolutely.

A Muslim, South Asian, and a woman as the lead character in a AAA Marvel game, it can't get any better than this. Kudos to Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix for greenlighting this.
 

Zapages

Member
Oct 28, 2017
460
I don't know why people in Western media use the word "Abu" in a wrong way. In arabic "Abu" usually means the "father of". My name is Mohammed so people give my father a nickname of "Abu Mohammed". If I had a son called Omar people will call me "Abu Omar" and so on. Sometimes it used to to describe things related to a certain person like if he is known for doing good deeds we call him "father of the good deeds" or like he is so generous so we say "father of generosity" or in our language "Abu Al Karam" but nobody is called "Abu" just like that. Not sure if Pakistanis use it this way but since the word is actually Arabic this is how we use it in the Arab world. Using the word "Abu" alone doesn't make sense.

It is mostly a south Asian thing. I'm also American Pakistani so I can corelate with things.

In Urdu, Abu became father. I call my Father just Abojan and my Mother Amijan. The jan/jaan is just an endearing way to call someone. Folks use variety of Abu, baba, daddy, and Dad for Father. While for Mother, I have seen it as Ami, mummmy, Mom, Mum, and etc...

What you are referring to in Urdu it will become Omar ke Abu. Urdu switches things around. The ke = of . Some old school folks still use that terminology when talking with their children. It usually will be the mother who talks to their husbands. Majority don't use it anymore as more English is being mixed into Urdu.

My Mother has masters in Urdu from Punjab university in Lahore so I found all these small differences in Urdu and reading about Arabic.

Anyway, back on topic kamala khan is a great for Muslim Americans from Pakistani origin... If I ever have a daughter, I'll try to give her some of her comics to get her into marvel.

It's like how my cousin's son who is going to a Islamic school went on a field trip to go watch star wars episode 7...
 

Hayeya

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,813
Canada
Wow, never knew anything about ms. Marvel and her back story before this game, and as a Muslim myself, i am so happy of what they did.
Muslims (or other ethnic/color minorities) stereotypes in games/movies/media must end.
 

The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland
I wholeheartedly agree this. I am not Muslim. I am a Brazilian PoC that knows exactly what it means being poorly represented in the mainstream media, and I can't stress enough how much of a powerful character Ms. Marvel aka Kamala Khan is. And I am not talking just about power levels, although she is pretty powerful in the game. I'm talking about how precious her character arc is, how important and bold it is that they have made Kamala not just one of the Avengers, but the heart of this story and, well, this iteration of the Avengers. We can discuss power levels, Metacritic scores and GOTY lists all day, but trust me on this one: I'm happy to know that one of my favorite games of the year features a Muslim girl that reminds a lot of myself growing up, a nerd just trying to do good because that is the right thing to do, regardless how corny that is.



Representation matters.

And Crystal Dynamics, if you are listening, my guy Sunspot could use some love as well:

deodato-sunspot.jpg

GreatIdioticHydatidtapeworm-small.gif

Her dad is absolutely fantastic from start to finish
Low-key the secondary protag of the game
Quite a lovable character, Kamala and Her dad are well cast in the game and don't fall into those very south asian stereotypes, I'm glad that they did justice to that. I was honestly very worried!
This was one of my worries. I love that CD handled it so well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,581
Despite all the games technical issues the game was worth the purchase for Kamala in the campaign alone.
She's about mid tier gameplay but story and characterization alone she destroys the other Avengers combined.


Never remotely got interested when I previously saw her character show up anywhere.
After the game her D+series immediately became the Marvel production I'm most excited about by far(way more than any new movie even)
 

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,052
Not a big fan of the character in general, but I'm glad she was chosen for the game and handled well for the representation it brings.
 

Mandalorian

Alt account
Banned
Jun 18, 2020
1,171
Very slightly off topic but, I can't wait for her series on Disney+ I hope the rumors about Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel for it and acting as a mentor for her are true.
I was talking about this the other day, but I kinda wish she ends up getting her own film instead. I did hear that the plan was to make a TV show with her by Marvel Studios but I am hoping that a conjunction of factors, the character breaking out in this game being one of them, make them consider going with a film instead. I just think it's important that she gets the big screen treatment, and the character already proved with this game that she can carry a big production with ease.
 

Kaivan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
Scratch that "of the year" and make it "of the decade" or "forever".

Wow, never knew anything about ms. Marvel and her back story before this game, and as a Muslim myself, i am so happy of what they did.
Muslims (or other ethnic/color minorities) stereotypes in games/movies/media must end.
Indeed. It's just heartbreaking every time I see a new game trailer with Arabian terrorists as the antagonists.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
To add to the "abu" situation of being used differently in different countries / languages, I was playing the demo in Spanish and I thought she was calling for her grandfather, because in Spanish grandfather is "abuelo", sometimes shortened to "abu" by kids.

I was wondering if there would be an etymological connection (since Spanish inherits a lot of words from Arabic), but apparently it comes from "avus" which means grandfather in Latin.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid

Patsy

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,280
Germany
She's the reason why I now want to desperately get the game once I have some money to spare. Watched the intro of her @ A-Day and just couldn't stop smiling and giggling. Both her & her dad are wonderful & hearing that that never changes makes me incredibly happy.