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Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,187
Good directors also make duds. Hell, there are directors that keep falling upwards that all they do is make duds. Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson are proved talented filmmakers and the trashing of them usually feels like over petty shit like they directing Marvel films and getting caught between fandom wars. They are great, Rian Johnson is great, there is even room for trash filmmakers like Zack Snyder at Netflix. I'm sure that Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson are bound to make excellent films in their future, they have proved themselves time and time again. Claiming they aren't talented is simply inaccurate.

Never said Rian Johnson is not great.

But the Russo Brothers? Nah, making Endgame is not enough to make them some of the best filmmakers when they releases The Gray Man, Extraction, Cherry afterwards. You can't put The Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson when the former made Cherry and The Gray Man and the latter did Knives Out, which is by far one of the best movies in recent years.

Extraction 2 is going to be another trash in the making. If you are talented you ain't going to release 3 duds in a row in a short period of time.
 

Mancha

alt account
Banned
Oct 23, 2021
2,520
I do think there is at least some issue with the Russos - unlike Rian Johnson, who launched a franchise of his own with extremely high critical acclaim, they've repeatedly delivered critical blunders outside of Marvel - transitioning out of the MCU. They have a history of great TV work, but when left to their own devices they tend to stumble.

Johnson was an auteur before Star Wars and he'll be an auteur afterwards, but I don't think the Russos have that kind of X-Factor. They're good company men who deliver great results when someone else (Dan Harmon, Kevin Feige, Mitch Hurwitz, etc) is around to guide them but their own projects struggle.

I disagree. I think that Johnson will eventually make a dud. It will happen, sadly. It happens to all great directors. I think that the Russo Brothers stepping out of the Marvel Studios shadow and doing work with Netflix and previously Apple is good for their careers, even if the films aren't critically acclaimed. They will be fine, and become better directors for it.

I'm not saying they are the best of their generation, but they are definitely competent. I am actually trying to make room to watch Gray Man eventually, once the madness of marathons I'm doing slows down a bit.
 

Whitemex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,573
Chicago
Came in expecting to read some new news but i see this thread has turned into a debate about the Russos and Rian Johnson....yeesh
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,951
Black Adam tested the same as Batgirl. At the same point. Just said on the Twitter space by Umberto Gonzales.
People underestimate how hard it is to watch an unfinished movie and to look passed unfinished effects, non-existent or very temporary grading, a lack of finished sound effects, temp music, etc.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,671
Kinda bizarre if it was cancelled, since it somehow made it past the pilot and they already put it on the schedule. Are you sure they weren't just speculating about how quickly it will get cancelled?
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
14,128
Just said in the twitter space that Wonder Woman/Gal Gadot has a cameo in some upcoming dc film.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,385
I've never soo much concern and drama over something cancelled when 99,98% of people being concerned didn't see one second of the movie lol

Several days have been passed and people still miss or ignore this point.

I think you're missing a massive point too.

The reality is that a lot of Hollywood doesn't give a shit about the Batgirl movie itself.
It's actors loosing residuals, bonuses, or major career opportunities being cancelled.

There was a great tweet this week about how every lawyer in Hollywood got a phone call this week about it.
It's going to cause contract rewrites all over town.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
I've never soo much concern and drama over something cancelled when 99,98% of people being concerned didn't see one second of the movie lol
Lmao garbage take.

It's a almost as if pulling Batgirl was not only unprecedented in the broad sense but that it also denies an opportunity for new levels of representation both in front of and behind the camera. But keep minimizing this weird, chilling move.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
Never said Rian Johnson is not great.

But the Russo Brothers? Nah, making Endgame is not enough to make them some of the best filmmakers when they releases The Gray Man, Extraction, Cherry afterwards. You can't put The Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson when the former made Cherry and The Gray Man and the latter did Knives Out, which is by far one of the best movies in recent years.

Extraction 2 is going to be another trash in the making. If you are talented you ain't going to release 3 duds in a row in a short period of time.
The Russos didn't direct either Extraction, they just produce them (and Joe Russo co-writes them). And tbh as far as dumb action movies go, I thought it was way better than Gray Man.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,076
When trade magazines call the move "unprecedented" it's a big deal, so while I agree that this may have been a situational type thing, it also shows a lack of commitment to being supported in your project.

The fact they cancelled a project with a diversity focus in directing and casting for a high profile DC character film also sends a certain message imo.

It is unprecedented. We don't need trades to tell us that. Like I said in my next post I wonder if Disney had the ability to write off New Mutants after the Fox acquisition or is it reserved only for mergers not acquisitions. If it's allowed to happen with acquisitions also and still hasn't then this move is even dirtier.

If it can only happen with a merger then this would be a very rare occurrence or as far as Zazlav sees it, a rare opportunity to save a ton of money. The thing is he's still releasing Flash and I think still wants Walter Hamada to head the DC division so it doesn't look like he's doing any of this to "reset" anything at all. So that excuse doesn't fly.

Either way hopefully creatives will able to make contracts with WB that has protections against this sort of thing going forward.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,776
Richmond, VA
Disney is already losing billions on D+ and soon they will start to slowdown.

I don't know where this comes from with such certainty. We just saw Paramount doubling down for the foreseeable future, and there are no signs whatsoever that Disney is taking it's foot off the gas either. Could they? Sure. Is there any evidence of it? No.
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,701
After that locked Gotham Knights thread it had me thinking...

If this "protect the DC brand with quality" bs is true,
For the love of god WB stop with the "Batman died or disappeared" now others have to protect the city.
or dumb shit like not letting Jerome on Gotham be called anything more than "J"
or other shows like Arrow stealing characters and plots and not allowing Batman to be involved with it
or Titans having Bruce Wayne as a character and active Batman but beyond a shadowy dream sequence Batman can't actually appear despite Bruce Wayne hanging in multiple episodes.
not even allowed to be sitting in the cave suited with mask off

That shit hurts your brands.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,277
Providence, RI
After that locked Gotham Knights thread it had me thinking...

If this "protect the DC brand with quality" bs is true,
For the love of god WB stop with the "Batman died or disappeared" now others have to protect the city.
or dumb shit like not letting Jerome on Gotham be called anything more than "J"
or other shows like Arrow stealing characters and plots and not allowing Batman to be involved with it
or Titans having Bruce Wayne as a character and active Batman but beyond a shadowy dream sequence Batman can't actually appear despite Bruce Wayne hanging in multiple episodes.


That shit hurts your brands.

"stealing characters and plots"

lol come on
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,701
"stealing characters and plots"

lol come on
The whole Ra's & Nyssa thing(Nyssa was good but god that was an awful section of that show)

but that reminded me of another point.
Suicide Squad getting blocked from Arrow because a movie was coming out.
That kinda of stuff is such a detriment to the brand imo while they think its protecting the movie stuff
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,782
Blocking characters is dumb. Nothing wrong with sharing characters and plots in different adaption though.

WB has always been weird about that. They stopped allowing Bat-related characters (outside of Batman himself) in JLU because there was another Batman cartoon on at the same time.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,533
After that locked Gotham Knights thread it had me thinking...

If this "protect the DC brand with quality" bs is true,
For the love of god WB stop with the "Batman died or disappeared" now others have to protect the city.
or dumb shit like not letting Jerome on Gotham be called anything more than "J"
or other shows like Arrow stealing characters and plots and not allowing Batman to be involved with it
or Titans having Bruce Wayne as a character and active Batman but beyond a shadowy dream sequence Batman can't actually appear despite Bruce Wayne hanging in multiple episodes.
not even allowed to be sitting in the cave suited with mask off

That shit hurts your brands.

They'll never make a proper big budget Batman show where he's the main character, maybe they should just stop altogether then
 

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,992
They'll never make a proper big budget Batman show where he's the main character, maybe they should just stop altogether then
It's honestly wild to me that they don't have a prestige Batman show in the works for Max. Lol I just deleted a whole rant about it because everyone here already knows the deal, but man… it's money being left on the table at this point. Audiences can handle multiple takes on the character at once!
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,186
Good directors also make duds. Hell, there are directors that keep falling upwards that all they do is make duds. Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson are proved talented filmmakers and the trashing of them usually feels like over petty shit like they directing Marvel films and getting caught between fandom wars. They are great, Rian Johnson is great, there is even room for trash filmmakers like Zack Snyder at Netflix. I'm sure that Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson are bound to make excellent films in their future, they have proved themselves time and time again. Claiming they aren't talented is simply inaccurate.

Please do not put the mediocrity of the Russos next to Rian Johnson.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,186
Okay mister Nightwing isn't a good character, that's enough bad takes for the weekend.

See, no one ever reads on Era. I said he wasn't cool, not that he wasn't a good character. Nightwing is not cool. I stand by that 100%.

Russos are mediocre directors that cannot sit at the same table as Rian Johnson.
 

jey_16

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,330
'Batgirl' Died for our Sins - fascinating article (might be paywalled)

The Batgirl test screening scores were lower than recent DC fare, I'm told. And I talked to someone who attended a screening and said it played like a CW pilot: low stakes, thin characters, light action, and a twisty, convoluted plot. When viewers were asked after the screening if the movie felt "big"—Warners' effort to discern whether it could justify the elevated budget by releasing it theatrically—they emphatically responded "no," according to this source. Meaning no amount of reshoots or C.G.I. would polish this direct-to-video turd into a theatrical diamond.

That's not necessarily DC chief Walter Hamada's fault; he was making the pricey streaming movie that Jason Kilar, the former WarnerMedia C.E.O. under AT&T, and Toby Emmerich, the ex-Warners film chief, told him to make. A $90 million CW pilot was the strategy, not an anomaly, though presumably they asked Hamada to make it a good CW pilot.

But now, like so many recent pivots at Warners under its various owners, there's a new leader and a new strategy. Less Netflix-style volume, more HBO-style quality (but broader!), and superhero movies should be events for theaters first. Zaslav and C.F.O. Gunnar Wiedenfels, the Butcher's Hatchet Man, both newcomers to the film business, just aren't going to spend that amount of money on direct-to-streaming movies. "We cannot find an economic case for it," Zaslav said on the company earnings call today. What he really means is that the stock market no longer values wild spending for sub growth. And he's got so many financial pressures to deal with.

The article has a lot more i get why the new execs though why lose more money (after the $90m) on a middling HBO max film when you can get a tax break by dumping it. Throwing billions away chasing streaming content isn't going to last when no one apart from Netflix is making any money on it

In the first place though, it seems insane to me to spend $90m on a Batgirl film that is going straight to streaming. Spend that budget on a few TV shows maybe? No one was signing up to HBO Max for this. Hollywood gone mad