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Battletech |KS| Turn-based tactical mech combat, Harebrained Schemes, Spring 2018
- Thread starter Lime
- Start date
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"Succession ERA" is pretty neat.
Weirdly, it never occurred to me to call my BT OT "ERA of Succession Wars"... but the my title has been around longer than ERA so i never modified it.
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Re:Clans
HBS indicated that if there are sequels, they may well feature Clans. I do wonder how they will portray them though. Technologically, the Clans are so much better Clan vs IS games don't really work without strict abstract balancing system (eg point values), strict enforcement of Clan honor behavior, or massively nerfing Clan technology so that it is mostly different rather than better (and they have more of advanced tech while it would be uncommon among Spheroid forces).
A game that is set within the Clan space only would work though. Only Clans against Clans.
Weirdly, it never occurred to me to call my BT OT "ERA of Succession Wars"... but the my title has been around longer than ERA so i never modified it.
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Re:Clans
HBS indicated that if there are sequels, they may well feature Clans. I do wonder how they will portray them though. Technologically, the Clans are so much better Clan vs IS games don't really work without strict abstract balancing system (eg point values), strict enforcement of Clan honor behavior, or massively nerfing Clan technology so that it is mostly different rather than better (and they have more of advanced tech while it would be uncommon among Spheroid forces).
A game that is set within the Clan space only would work though. Only Clans against Clans.
That would be a bad idea. The whole point of Clan equipment is that it's lighter, more compact and more powerful than its IS equivalents.
An easy way to balance the overpowered Clan mechs would be to have Clan pilots strictly adhere to their warrior code, which would cause them to be tactically inflexible. That's what happened in lore, IS forces repeatedly ambushed, ganged up on, and generally broke every rule of engagement the Clans use among themselves.
So, I kinda thought this, but when I looked into it, it's actually confirmed in the game. And while the Combine themselves might not sell it, the market would eventually get their hands on them through salvage.
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/3926
I like this.
I was thinking reducing damage and range values mostly. So Clan tech would run hotter but be more compact and light than the Spheroid tech but not be actually better. I wouldn't touch construction rules, except for a total technology refresh after a time skip soft reboot.
But even so, Clan 'Mechs would own on one on one situations, because they have more armor, mobility and firepower for the same weight class as their IS equivalents.
Yeah, this works for the AI.
But how do you enforce this if the player is a Clan player (really, there should be a Clan campaign option, not just having them as enemies)?
And even better, how do you enforce this in multiplayer with IS vs Clan match? Honor and dueling system doesn't work if the opponent is free to ignore that, because they can't win one on one situations.
I'm just inclined to declare the enemy dezgra should i play Clan, and use any means to eliminate them if there is no strict enforcement for honor and dueling.
Yeah, and i'm waiting for a Jihad-era game or a Dark Age-era game.
None of these isn't gonna happen.
Presumably any sequels will use MWO models as much as possible. I expect there's a chance they will get some new ones to fill some gaps (eg the Hatchetman, i believe someone at HBS really liked that and wants melee weapons too), but overall it is gonna be MWO 'Mechs.
As such, the logical sequel is set in 3050, with the Clans added, along with some new 'Mechs such as the Raven. (That got cut from this game because they didn't come up with ECM and BAP functions.)
Then, if the series will last long enough, 3060s with Operation Bulldog or FedCom Civil War, since MWO has several 'Mechs from that era, and more coming probably.
EDIT Incidentally, the same applies to MechWarrior V and that series' future.
It is a major failing in BattleTech franchise really. That it is so stuck on early to mid 31st century.
The Star League-era would provide various interesting options, for stories especially.
The Jihad offers a good villain in the Word of Blake and their Manei Domini cyborgs and other super tech, while Spheroids and Clans work together as much as they fight.
The Dark Age era makes mixed technology a standard option, so all factions can field IS 'Mechs, Clan 'Mechs or 'Mechs that combine technology from both tech bases.
But no, it is all the same goddamn 3025-3050s. It has its good parts, but i think it is a time to move on.
The Star League-era would provide various interesting options, for stories especially.
The Jihad offers a good villain in the Word of Blake and their Manei Domini cyborgs and other super tech, while Spheroids and Clans work together as much as they fight.
The Dark Age era makes mixed technology a standard option, so all factions can field IS 'Mechs, Clan 'Mechs or 'Mechs that combine technology from both tech bases.
But no, it is all the same goddamn 3025-3050s. It has its good parts, but i think it is a time to move on.
The franchise doesn't get enough video games to warrant calling it a failing regardless of which era they decide to go with. The only other official Battletech game is MWO and it isn't exactly very popular compared to other F2P games.
This isn't a call of duty, once a year franchise here.
This isn't a call of duty, once a year franchise here.
I am talking about BattleTech in general, including and mostly the tabletop and sourcebooks and all that.
Point values for multi, rigid behavior for AI. Pretty straightforward.
Yeah, well, that was time when FASA was around and things were moving on. Timeline and the game sorta moved on with every main rulebook release, the introductory box was stuck on 3025 though.
Then FASA got shuttered (both MS owned FASA Interactive and the FASA that did the tabletop games), WizKids rebooted BT as Dark Age (with, amusingly enough, Jordan Weissman in the helm just like here), and FanPro/later Catalyst GameLabs started working on the Jihad.
Timeline ALMOST moved on actually. MechAssault games are nominally set during the Jihad, and Total Warfare edition of tabletop BattleTech rules is set in the early Jihad.
But afterwards there has been no movement whatsoever. The Dark Age got eventually converted to BattleTech tabletop rules but there was never a new rulebook edition that would update things, not until BattleMech Manual released last year... except that thing doesn't deal with lore at all unlike previous rulebooks.
And most things have been filling out earlier times. Or going back to 3025, just like this game.
And yeah, it'd be cool to get some slightly later stuff. MechAssault... I think mostly 2, but they showed up in 1, actually had the Word of Blake as a major factor, that was dope.
Indeed, you fight the Word of Blake constantly in MA2 (never played MA1 so no idea about that). It is all nonsensical depictions actually, though there are some spiritual links to official Jihad: The Word of Blake did turn to wunderwaffe, various super and special weapons, when they realized they couldn't quite win as easily as they thought.
While there were no gigantic 'Mechs like MA2 end boss, or weird hexapodal spider 'Mech like that one half-game boss was, the Word of Blake did create a super heavy BattleMech called the Omega weighting 150 tons or so (aside from massive amount of armor, the thing was actually kinda unimpressive), they created new cockpit type that interfaces the user via neural implant and armor (a bit like in Pacific Rim), and they experimented with robotic BattleMechs.
Other cool stuff the Word of Blake had were the elite Manei Domini cyborgs, many of them using neural link to control their 'Mechs rather than the usual neurohelmet. And they piloted their own OmniMech series, the Celestials, with appropriate spikes of villainy.
Mostly, what I like about the Word of Blake is that they're a slightly more... approachable(?) take on the sort of themes you see in Dune or 40k, without the latter's excessiveness. Technological mysticism, religious extremism, all sorts of cool stuff.
The Word of Blake is what the ComStar was around 3025 or before, except taken up to eleven. Post-Fourth Succession War ComStar started to open up, reduce its mysticism. This lead to the split at the end of the Clan Invasion in 3052. (Don't know if you know or not, but i figured i'd put this stuff for others if nothing else.)
I do like that too, and that is why i like their use of cyborgs and technological "miracles". It fits their extreme nature.
Oh okay. I just assumed you meant Battletech video game wise.
Well yeah, the franchise is 30 years old and has to work to get a new fanbase to overcome attrition, because Battletech hasn't really been relevant in decades until this game. 3025 gets so much play because it's a good status quo for beginners to learn about the setting and to route them into all the built up lore, instead of dumping all the accumulated post-3025 history on them at once and turning them off.
And playing that era is so boring usually, everything's been done for you already.
What i advocate is to move the timeline on, a fresh era. Let players play that, let them affect the future of things, let them be involved, instead of watching their favorite factions steam roll over things (FedSuns), get steamrolled (CapCon), get ignored until ignominious breakup (FWL), or get sorta ignored (Lyrans and Draconis Combine).
With timeskip, the rules can be tweaked and weapons and equipment can be overhauled, so that newbies can actually use wider, better balanced equipment set, in more smartly playing game.
Using intro set doesn't help in that if people like it, they get stuck to it. "later tech is OP" or something. And so, everything else is ignored anyway. If they don't like it, they don't stay to try other stuff.
The thing is, BT being stuck to 3025 hasn't helped it to get any new players so far, not really. Alpha Strike didn't do that either. It needs a fresh angle, and best way to provide for that is either a hard reboot, or moving the timeline on and doing a soft reboot.
Everyone seen all the let's plays out there? It's looking like a solid game with tonnes of customisation, I like the idea of being able to take on the harder contracts when it starts getting a bit easy. Also, the music is phenomenal for such a small game, bravo.
I don't watch streams but based on comments, i have some reservations.
One thing i haven't seen any comments about is the AI. How good is it? Because the beta skirmish AI was awful, i almost lost only once and that was mostly because i played badly.
One thing i haven't seen any comments about is the AI. How good is it? Because the beta skirmish AI was awful, i almost lost only once and that was mostly because i played badly.
So, what's your pro-tips here? I played a couple of games and they all went extremely badly.
In the beta, the AI was big on defeat in detail. I picked good defensive spot (hills and forests, combination being ideal), and waited for them to come to me, and the AI obliged usually by effectively sending units one by one at me rather than slowing down faster units. If i played more aggressively, i kept my 'Mechs close together and focus fired enemies down one by one.
The AI did better when its forces were clumped together. But this is not because it was smarter but because there was more firepower pointed at me at once.
Now, it is possible my tendency for defensive playing was the issue for the AI. Perhaps the story missions require extra aggression, and perhaps the AI works better in such situations. And extra enemies like vehicles will change things, if they will soften my forces before AI 'Mechs.
Also, i tended to build my lance with specific tactics in mind, pilot and 'Mech choices. I didn't use premade lances much, they didn't look appealing.
I figure the basic gameplay was solid overall though, despite the AI problem. It was reasonably fun and looked nice.
Currently my concerns, along with the AI, are the campaign gameplay aspects and story. I'm also worrying whether i can build some 'Mech variants that aren't actually available, eg Banshee 3S.
EDIT Funny, but now that i think of this, despite my complaints about the UI being poor when it comes to showing information, the gameplay itself was fairly intuitive. It was clear when it was good idea to use abilities like Brace/Guard/Bulwark/whatever it was called.
That sounds like it could be the thing, tbh. I played extremely aggressively, and the AI did a good job of capitalizing on any units I had positioned away from the others - part of it was that I pretty badly overestimated the ability of my guys to do damage, so flanking a pair of Light Mechs to take out a Medium while keeping my own big guys at range to provide fire support usually ended up with my lights getting rolled and the mediums killed not long after. Any missions that require us to split up the squad or go to them are gonna be much more in their wheelhouse.
I do feel as though the Skirmish mode is tuned more for PvP. In the campaign, there's the perpetual metagame of having to deal with repair expenses, refits, downtime, etc, and contracts will often throw considerably more than one lance at you, including vehicles, turrets and whatnot.
I'm unsure if the Banshee 3S will be doable, since there are no engine refits in the game. Heat balance of loadouts is also rather different from TT.
Force concentration used from defensive positions is effective. Tactically defensive, strategically offensive, by using slow and steady advance from good position to another good position.
Picking 'Mechs for this purpose favors heavier units but mobility can't be sacrificed too much, didn't do great with the Atlas really.
Unfortunate but in 3025-era, mobile firepower can't be really achieved. Mediums like Wolverine and Griffin have proper mobility for this role but they lack armor or firepower and will have trouble fighting with heavier but slower 'Mechs like the Orion, especially if those are not alone. The Dragon is just overgrown medium, and there are no faster heavies.
Lights felt way too weak in the game. Not enough firepower, and extra mobility wasn't terribly useful since i didn't need to know where the enemy was really. My attempts at using light 'Mechs made them distractions at best, cannon fodder at worst. The initiative system didn't really give them enough value, i feel.
Picking 'Mechs for this purpose favors heavier units but mobility can't be sacrificed too much, didn't do great with the Atlas really.
Unfortunate but in 3025-era, mobile firepower can't be really achieved. Mediums like Wolverine and Griffin have proper mobility for this role but they lack armor or firepower and will have trouble fighting with heavier but slower 'Mechs like the Orion, especially if those are not alone. The Dragon is just overgrown medium, and there are no faster heavies.
Lights felt way too weak in the game. Not enough firepower, and extra mobility wasn't terribly useful since i didn't need to know where the enemy was really. My attempts at using light 'Mechs made them distractions at best, cannon fodder at worst. The initiative system didn't really give them enough value, i feel.
Quite possible. While i won all my games, i did take losses usually. Losing 3 out of 4 'Mechs wasn't unusual, but win's a win in Skirmish.
Winning with no losses felt a bit dissatisfying...
For fuck's sake. I don't disagree with limiting customization in order to promote individual 'Mechs but... fuck, that hurts. The Banshee 3S is one of the few variants that do replace the engine after all, and it becomes of one the finest assault 'Mechs circa 3025 with that swap.
I hope folks will be able to mod that in ASAP.
(Another variant worry is availability of Grand Dragon. There is only DRG-1N IIRC, but will it have energy slot in the right arm? If not, another 'Mech may need.)
Well, the body of the game takes place in 3025, and the 3S wasn't introduced until 3026. The Grand Dragon is 3050. (edit: sorry, that's the official follow-up design. I see the DRG-1G is circa 3024.)
It seems like there are plans to explore further into the timeline and introduce all the new mechs, variants, and lostech that implies. And folks are already planning to mod in period-correct variants that are not already included, although there is some worry that this will complicate the salvage game. To some degree, it seems like HBS simplified the available variants in part because much of their capability can be reproduced in the MechLab.
While it would be timeline accurate, 'Mech variant availability, when they don't use any newer tech, is one thing where i'd flex a bit. I mean, logically there are already some things that make little sense, such as the Dragon itself, it isn't common outside the Draconis Combine and FedSuns-Drac and Lyran-Drac borders; or the Cataphract that is a "high-tech"/prototype Capellan 'Mech, i don't think it is really available to mercs.
Still hope someone mods those "missing" variants in.
Still hope someone mods those "missing" variants in.
I believe there is unannounced 'lostech' in the game. Someone accidentally leaked an Atlas II.
Yeah, i remember the beta files included bunch of LosTech, like Gauss rifles.
Atlas II... now that's... well. Canonically, every single Atlas II pilot took part in General Kerensky's Exodus. Thus, the 'Mech is canonically only found among the Clan second-line forces until the Jihad and recovery of the Hegemony Memory Core circa 3070 which included the plans for the 'Mech.
Strictly speaking i can see there being Star League caches that included Atlas IIs, and someone could've found one. Still, it is a bit weird.
But, here's one caveat. Given that the game uses MWO modes, any Atlas "II" in this game won't look like the real Atlas II (probably, technically it is close enough modifying the Atlas model to that shouldn't be too difficult). So perhaps it won't be a real Atlas II, rather just a modified 'Mech called that? We'll see. Gonna be interesting either way.
Yeah, it was using a stock Atlas model. The context isn't yet known, but people are assuming a SL cache.
Anyway, all that to say that: there's always hope! The game is very moddable and the grognards are persistent.
Hey, i am one of those grognards. I still disapprove of the new Aurigan Coalition. Fortunately they picked a good name for it at least.
Anyone who has watched the streams: Do we know how many planets and locations are in the game? Which territories are available?
I presume the Aurigan Coaltion territory is the primary area but what about the nearby Great House territories or beyond?
I presume the Aurigan Coaltion territory is the primary area but what about the nearby Great House territories or beyond?
I see. Basically they're going for a self-contained story for now, probably?
Makes sense in that if BT is not a financial success, there is little point in making it a series, and in such case a self-contained game works best.
Still don't agree with the idea of the Aurigan Coalition. The claim behind it is that it gives more freedom to devs. Yet if it is but a minor kingdom, what does it matter? There is space for lords within larger Successor States declaring independence during the waning days of the Third Succession War and the game revolving around that.
I also wonder about the are because it seems to be a poor fit for sequels, unless the intent is really to go for self-contained games set within different time periods (and this assuming there is a long-term plan at all). The Clans invade from the Coreward Inner Sphere/Periphery, the Aurigan Coalition is set in Rimward Inner Sphere/Periphery! If a sequel will deal with the Clans, then we're going to work in "restrictive canonical" areas anyway, unless things are set circa early 3050 when the Clans sweep everything from their path in the Periphery and we're fighting there (wouldn't exactly give access to Star League tech either). Of course, there is "empty" space on both sides of the Clan invasion corridors, so something akin the Aurigan Coalition could be created to either area.
Makes sense in that if BT is not a financial success, there is little point in making it a series, and in such case a self-contained game works best.
Still don't agree with the idea of the Aurigan Coalition. The claim behind it is that it gives more freedom to devs. Yet if it is but a minor kingdom, what does it matter? There is space for lords within larger Successor States declaring independence during the waning days of the Third Succession War and the game revolving around that.
I also wonder about the are because it seems to be a poor fit for sequels, unless the intent is really to go for self-contained games set within different time periods (and this assuming there is a long-term plan at all). The Clans invade from the Coreward Inner Sphere/Periphery, the Aurigan Coalition is set in Rimward Inner Sphere/Periphery! If a sequel will deal with the Clans, then we're going to work in "restrictive canonical" areas anyway, unless things are set circa early 3050 when the Clans sweep everything from their path in the Periphery and we're fighting there (wouldn't exactly give access to Star League tech either). Of course, there is "empty" space on both sides of the Clan invasion corridors, so something akin the Aurigan Coalition could be created to either area.
Oh, right, another question.
Just how do Successor States tie into this game?
I wonder because we got all the nice wallpapers with their emblems with HBS BT aesthetic (currently using the FedSuns wallpaper). All five houses, plus ComStar.
Did they just make those because having the logos is probably necessary even if they won't be featured exactly?
Just how do Successor States tie into this game?
I wonder because we got all the nice wallpapers with their emblems with HBS BT aesthetic (currently using the FedSuns wallpaper). All five houses, plus ComStar.
Did they just make those because having the logos is probably necessary even if they won't be featured exactly?
I'm pretty sure I read a while back that the Successor States (the ones that border/are in proximity to the Aurigan Coalition, at any rate) will show up as possible mission sponsors, potentially with plot implications, like maybe throwing the entire region into the arms of the Capellans or the Federated Suns. Presumably, more distant factions have less plot involvement, but could show up occasionally if only to oppose the others.
http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/99/RimwardPeriphery3025.jpg?timestamp=20170221195513
Hrmm. Not sure how it could fall to the FedSuns, given that Taurian Concordant separates it from FedSuns. Of course, the FedSuns influence could extend to it...
Honestly, i think they didn't pick quite an optimal location for the Auriga. Move it a bit "south" and "west" and it floats in middle of space, nicely between the CapCon, FWL, Magistracy of Canopus and Taurian Concordant. Alternatively, stretch it to west so that it has more border with Capcon and even FWL and MoC.
Still, even as it is, it does arguably affect the local geopolitics, one reason i'm not fan of the nation in the first place.
I hope the game's story is good enough to change my mind. I'm just very skeptical :/
Hrmm. Not sure how it could fall to the FedSuns, given that Taurian Concordant separates it from FedSuns. Of course, the FedSuns influence could extend to it...
Honestly, i think they didn't pick quite an optimal location for the Auriga. Move it a bit "south" and "west" and it floats in middle of space, nicely between the CapCon, FWL, Magistracy of Canopus and Taurian Concordant. Alternatively, stretch it to west so that it has more border with Capcon and even FWL and MoC.
Still, even as it is, it does arguably affect the local geopolitics, one reason i'm not fan of the nation in the first place.
I hope the game's story is good enough to change my mind. I'm just very skeptical :/
To me it seems more like the "MW" side of the franchise is going extinct. MechWarrior was one of my favorite PC game series back in the day and then to see it today literally devolved into "MWO" which is nothing but endless 'grinding' or 'pay2play' definitely breaks my heart, which are two gaming trends that I definitely despise most in this day and age. MW games used to be just fun, and the multiplayer was merely a bonus to fool around where there was no pressure to grind period since it did not exist. MW5 by PGI, same as MWO, isn't going to save it either since there is little innovation being driven into what should be 'next-gen' MW. It just seems Microsoft does not really care about that IP if they are not taking a risk to have a better dev make it and pour in the cash with next-gen tech, for a PC Sim-Lite-Game MechWarrior, RTS MechCommander, and the console version MechAssault.
As far as Battletech, and as one of the backers, I think it will do well. The Beta itself ran surprisingly well and smooth. It's separate from the MW franchise and can distance itself from it being that it is purely a turn-based strategy game, which may draw in lots of different player types. Most of which may not know anything about Battletech, and will not really care to afterwards. I didn't really care to get into Shadowrun p&p for example, after playing HBS pc rendition of that (which I really enjoyed).
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