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Bernie really out here cutting ads with Joe Rogan's endorsement (SEE STAFF POST)
- Thread starter GrapeApes
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I mean, we can look at Dave Rubin too who tries less successfully to do the same thing, featuring guests from both sides of the aisle. The thing that needs to be looked at is whether he does so in a balanced way, or whether the way he handles his guests is similar to Rubin, where he is more prone to question and criticize people on the left and more likely to defend and agree with people on the right.
I'm saying this board isn't the appropriate place for fanfic
Okay, that's great. Now can we deal with Bernie's privileged voters telling black people and other marginalized groups to wait their turn shut up and be quiet while we expand the tent and welcome in deplorables without being interested in rehabilitating their views and creating reliable democratic voters for the future? We've been sold down this river before and the fact that so many in this thread, and others, are silencing our concerns and talking over us is pretty disgusting.
As has been stated numerous times, elections have consequences and the top of the ticket is inconsequential compared to down ballot races at the state and municipal level where more important legislation is enacted and has a more immediate effect on a lot of people. Joe Rogan's cishet white voters angry at "political correctness" aren't subscribing to progressive policies because of this endorsement, it does nothing to change their ignorant bigoted ideology so how exactly is welcoming them into the fold actually pushing anything forward? How is it making Bernie's voters realize there is a separation between economic and racial justice?
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Perhaps my interpretation of the comment was different than yours. I didn't see it as Islamaphobic or excusing the fact that John McCain's "defense" could be seen in that manner by others.
As I said though, considering a large part of my family are Muslim, I'm as aware of you as the thinly veiled Islamophobia that gets a pass on this site. Just didn't appreciate being lumped in.
This is all undermining the fact that Democrats outnumber Republicans anyway. In a race between energized Democrats and energized Republicans, we just win by default.
I'd be willing to bet one of my Lucio hats you could get more people on board with trying to break down systemic barriers to voting than by going on Joe Rogan.
I'd be willing to bet one of my Lucio hats you could get more people on board with trying to break down systemic barriers to voting than by going on Joe Rogan.
Is this a reading comprehension issue or are you just intentionally being disingenuous?
He is courting a demographic proven to have a widespread preference for socially conservative red meat. I posed the obvious (rhetorical) question. Obviously he isn't, but if not what good does it do to court them only to ultimately be rejected in favor of Trump who will?
It's a play for the margins of an electorate he gets nothing from unless he wins the nom, and undermines in similar ways his ability to get the nom.
What is the point in them voting for the top of a ticket, holding onto their bigoted views and doing it in spite of being intolerant bigots who aren't going to vote for other Democrats up and down the ticket?
Again, what's the fucking end game here? How are any helpful policies and legislation going to be passed and enacted if these people are not actually being rehabilitated and ideologically course corrected?
Bernie could do so much good here by actually having gone on the podcast and actually, you know, challenging the shit Joe Rogan subscribes to and espouses to his army of cishet fragile white males. Did he do that? No. Could have challenged Rogan's racism, homophobia and transphobia. Did he do that? No.
I'm not finding anything, so I'm just confused as to what you meant.
There is no evidence of this. Absolutely none whatsoever.
Go Bernie! Fuck black, trans, LGBTQ concerns! Vote for our guy and once our privilege is satisfied maybe we'll throw ya a crumb!
Yep, really dislike this treating LGBT folks and people of color as a monolith on this issue when they're as divided too.
Centrists: we should court reasonable republicans!
also centrists: Bernie is the devil for gathering independents.
also centrists: Bernie is the devil for gathering independents.
This entire thread has been dismissing the grievances of Joe Rogan's racism and transphobia because the potential votes of the apathetic white men who listen to him are more important.
Would you mind being specific about the "so much good" Bernie could have done by going directly at Rogan on his show? It would certainly please his base, but that group of people is unshakeable regardless. How would his campaign have benefitted from directly dressing down Rogan, an influential celebrity with a huge dedicated following, for his bigotry?
Yep, sitting here as a Black and Hispanic guy reading others continually refer to people who feel differently on the matter as white is just ridiculous and unnecessary. I understand that others have their opinions, but folks are generally divided on this based on what I've seen.
Or the continued assumptions that if you're not as fussed with this, you're a diehard Bernie supporter.
You're honestly asking why Bernie shouldn't take a bigot to task for his bigotry??
If his alt-right supporters are unshakeable in their beliefs then what makes you think they'll vote for Bernie? Why bother trying to get their vote??
If this was Warren or Biden, people would go through roof.
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I'm kinda curious about this changing views of the people you're getting theory to make them a dem voting bloc in the future. In this theory the bloc you're trying to win back are probably Obama-Trump voters and maybe Obama-Romney voters.
Of course, in the first place, these voters had voted for Obama. I remember at the time a lot of people thinking racism was solved because Obama was voted in so overwhelmingly, that the Republican party was going to be gone for a generation, etc. But... obviously none of that happened. I suppose the next part of the theory would go into Obama not delivering transformational change, but if you think a Bernie presidency with, on the upper end rosy projection for any candidate, 51 Senators is going to be getting transformational change...? That's also assuming the theory the only reason there was backlash from Obama is the lack of fundamentally changing the system with a 60 vote majority for less than a year is correct.
Why does anyone think these voters are gonna be sticking around and that they're interested in Bernie for the reasons they think they are?
Of course, in the first place, these voters had voted for Obama. I remember at the time a lot of people thinking racism was solved because Obama was voted in so overwhelmingly, that the Republican party was going to be gone for a generation, etc. But... obviously none of that happened. I suppose the next part of the theory would go into Obama not delivering transformational change, but if you think a Bernie presidency with, on the upper end rosy projection for any candidate, 51 Senators is going to be getting transformational change...? That's also assuming the theory the only reason there was backlash from Obama is the lack of fundamentally changing the system with a 60 vote majority for less than a year is correct.
Why does anyone think these voters are gonna be sticking around and that they're interested in Bernie for the reasons they think they are?
I love the assumption that if you disagree with this you're a centrist that wants to court Republicans
When I think « human trafficking », helping undocumented workers find work in the US isn't the first thing that comes to mind, but this source isn't really giving me more context here, almost makes it sound as if it was consensual on the part of the smugglees here, no?
Don't know thst guy or his channel, but saying we shouldn't trust his views because he is guilty of human trafficking based on this source is pretty insane? What am I missing here?
Because Bernie or Liz's politics are the only acceptable way forward imo. The "Bernie is racist" macguffin is nonsense to me. I don't get why people are causing a stink about Bernie's racism when our other options, besides Warren, are more racist and did more damage to Black folks.
The "reasonable republicans" are non-social conservative Rs horrified by Trump and the "independents" are racists who want to expand government services to themselves while denying them to other groups.
That you think these things are actually contradictory says nothing about the people you're trying to mock and everything about you.
Not to mention I love wrapping all the bigotry aspects into "independents" to make it sound like it's different then trying to court reasonable republicans.
Also unless you also have an issue here, aren't you just as hypocritical only from the opposite direction?
This wasn't what you'd immediately assume given the location- standard issue border crossing stuff. The people being brought in here were being brought in from Russia/Eastern Europe.
Literally been said in this thread if you read through it.
People actually had the audacity to say that courting these people was more important than the issues affecting marginalized communities and once they're welcomed into the fold we can worry about the aforementioned issues. Sold down the river.
If they're unshakable, what is the point in courting them? To get Bernie Sanders elected? How does this help progressive policies advance if these "unshakable" bigots aren't going to vote for democratic candidates up and down the ticket. These are the people who actually have the power of getting policy enacted. Bernie can't do it on his own or with the stroke of a pen.
So how does the Democratic party benefit from welcoming these people in if they're voting for a man (because a man whose hateful rhetoric and bigotry they idolize tells them to) and not actually his ideas? How do marginalized groups benefit when we're just handwaving away their bigotry and dealing with it as a necessary evil to be swept under the rug? It makes absolutely no sense. The end game here is inherently flawed and poorly thought out.
Okay.
I think by not pushing for the candidate that has the best healthcare policy for the trans community it says everything I need to know about you.
Bernie has surrounded himself with some really questionable people in my opinion at least in the sense that they make shitty choices from time to time. Them doubling down on this isn't surprising.
Ok that's definitely immediately more sketchy, thanks for the clarification!
Basically kinda sounded like providing hotels with easily exploitable service staff they can underpay
I can't wait to see how Bernie addresses in the next debate.
Bernie Sanders has a long and troubling history of tone deaf at best and insidiously harmful at worst campaign staff.
I'm kinda curious who you think excelsiorlef supports in the primary. Cause you're kinda wrong.
How does this square with how allegedly every other Dem candidate tried to get booked on his show? It seems like their campaigns did the calculus on this and made the opposite conclusion.
Biden has been in first place nationally since before this squabble took place.
Understanding why Bernie decided to capitalize on the endorsement is not the same as agreeing with it or dismissing who and what Rogan is. You can say that it was a politically advantageous move while also acknowledging that Rogan is trash. Most people in here obviously understand who and what Rogan is. They just also understand who and what Bernie is. And Bernie is a politician. He would have been a fool not to capitalize on this attention. But as I have said many times it doesn't make it okay.
Understanding the decision is not the same as supporting the decision though. But I do get there have been people defending Rogan himself in here early on, but I also don't know if they were aware of his past comments. If they were aware and still defended him then yeah that's obviously bullshit, but most people I have seen are understanding that it was a good political move, but also still think Rogan is a trash can. So you and others can't just throw everyone in here under the same bus.
It'll be interesting to see how the other candidates respond as well
Yep. All because X candidate can't pass some ridiculous purity test with nothing less than a perfect score.
Sure, Rogan can be a dick, but if he can help Bernie (or any progressive) at the grass roots level, then let it be. Learn to pick your battles folks. Let's get this W against Trump. Nothing else matters for now. We can't make any meaningful steps forward unless we achieve that first.
All this infighting and scrutiny only helps the opposition. I really don't want to vote for Biden, but will if I have to. But I sure as hell don't want Trump.
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