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Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
As if black people lack cultural impact. Superhero movie for the rescue! *facepalm*

My immediate reaction would be similar. I tell myself "In the last 4-5 years we had Fences, we had Moonlight, heck even Get Out!, all these are more significant than Black Panther and arguably far better movies, expecially the first 2".

But I realize the point is another. Black Panther's significance is that it's a celebration. It's not a movie about breaking down the issues of the african american community, about introspection on their struggles, it's not a dramatic representation or an exposè.
Black Panther is about celebrating the beauty and richness of black culture (and black people) in a thriumphant, joyful and bombastic way. It's not shallow, but it's burdening itself with the task of being somber or sad either. What makes BP different is that it's not a "black movie" that focuses on sufference, inequality or anger, but that ultimately says "look at us being magnificient and glorious, and yes, we've not forgotten about all that other stuff, but today we stay winning".

At least that's my perception; BP isn't a movie about the struggle for representation or equality, but it's the reward for the journey. A joyful moment. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got from the movie and the people celebrating it.
 

Kazuhira

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,190
I haven't seen it but most of my co-workers think it's a ok movie,and they don't understand this mighty high praise for it.
Similar situation with Wonder Woman,which i saw a few months ago but i thought it was pretty meh.
I'm not really into superheroes movies that much though,so maybe i'm missing some context and all the hype from being a fan of these type of movies.
And there's no such thing as 'best movie of all time',that's so silly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,983
I'm pretty sure we didn't have as many Moonlight threads as we have for Black Panther, or for any Marvel flick. How does the box office compare to Black Panther, or to any Marvel flick? That's what I ment. It was an awarded movie and all-around critically acclaimed for sure and rightfully so, but I was talking about the hype and interest around the movie. That Oscar flub with announcing the wrong winner garnered most clicks and attention for Moonlight. Not sure why would anyone be arguing against my wish of Moonlight getting much more recognition from the general audiences, or implying that it got enough already.

Moonlight is a very important film. However, it is a R-rated arthouse film, so it's not going to have the same appeal as a big studio venture aimed at and marketed to all audiences. Especially in the middle of the superhero era.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,764
Saw it, nice movie, that's it.

So it must now be best movie of all time because a good movie with a mostly black cast just earned it?
This is the attitude I was talking about.

The movie wasn't deliberately ranked as #1 of all time by anyone, BP fans or otherwise. The list was generated by an algorithm that weirdly takes into account performance, number of reviews, and other factors, and hardly the artistic merit of the film in question.

But yeah, it earned it because it's a good movie with a mostly black cast.

You. I think I like you!
I tried so hard to give it a shot.
 

Lappe

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,651
I don't really like superhero films outside of Logan, Defendor, Kick-Ass, The Dark Knight and such, and I really have a distaste for Marvel movies, but recently with Guardians Of The Galaxy and Thor: Ragnarok I feel they have very much improved. This was a good movie, and can see the pop-culture impact it is going to leave, but let's face it.
It's not even in the top 500 movies of all time (and none of the superhero fluff is either), If you are looking at them as cinema / art experiences, and I'm not talking about Hollywood movies only, because It might surprise some of you, that they actually make movies around the world.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,764
It's not even in the top 500 movies of all time (and none of the superhero fluff is either), If you are looking at them as cinema / art experiences, and I'm not talking about Hollywood movies only, because It might surprise some of you, that they actually make movies around the world.
I feel like this is unnecessarily pretentious.
 

hotcyder

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,861
I wish Moonlight had this Black Panther hype around it, I really do. But still, I'm glad that Black Panther is doing well critically and commercially. It's definitely a positive thing considering the black representation.

Thing is 6 year old black kids aren't going to watch Moonlight, but they're sure as hell are going to watch Black Panther. There's seeing representation at the Oscars for a Drama, and then there's seeing it in a Disney produced tent pole.
 

Bran Van

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,540
I'll settle for one of the best movie soundtracks of all time.

Not even the best comic book movie in the past 6 months though
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,544
Netherlands
Saw BP last week and while i really enjoyed it.. it isn't even in my top 3 marvel movies let alone top 3 movies of all time.
 

Deleted member 29806

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,047
Germany
The movie wasn't deliberately ranked as #1 of all time by anyone, BP fans or otherwise. The list was generated by an algorithm that weirdly takes into account performance, number of reviews, and other factors, and hardly the artistic merit of the film in question.
Sure, you are right, still it is the result of a massive overhype of the movie - like when half of the topics on front page were Black Panther related.
 

ShaheedMalik

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,968
My immediate reaction would be similar. I tell myself "In the last 4-5 years we had Fences, we had Moonlight, heck even Get Out!, all these are more significant than Black Panther and arguably far better movies, expecially the first 2".
That's a no dawg.

Fences doesn't empower. Fences still deals with being oppressed.

Moonlight is empowering for the Black LGBT community.

Black Panther is empowering for Africans, African Americans, and Black people period.
 

Lappe

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,651
I feel like this is unnecessarily pretentious.
It's not trying to be. But it's like comparing a comic strip on your sunday paper to something that might be sitting in a museum etc.
I really don't see how Hollywood blockbusters can be viewed as cinema, unless you have a mind of a 10 yr old, and you're life revolves around comic books and video games.

Now there are FAR more better movies about African culture than a fuckin Marvel movie, c'moon. This is definetly good for kids, and will definetly spark some inspiration.
Even African cinema has some excellent standouts in the recent years, miles above this.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,067
My immediate reaction would be similar. I tell myself "In the last 4-5 years we had Fences, we had Moonlight, heck even Get Out!, all these are more significant than Black Panther and arguably far better movies, expecially the first 2".
I agree.

Black Panther outgrossed all those those movies combined in four days. This isn't painting black people as some niche, cinemaphile subject, it's placing black people as front and centre of a cultural behemoth that millions of people the world over will see. That makes it more significant.

That and it's an amazing movie, glad for all it's success and those it has touched across the races, ethnicities, continents and genders. Especially those who aren't used to this level of representation.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,764
It's not trying to be. But it's like comparing a comic strip on your sunday paper to something that might be sitting in a museum etc.
I really don't see how Hollywood blockbusters can be viewed as cinema, unless you have a mind of a 10 yr old, and you're life revolves around comic books and video games.
Are you absolutely sure you're trying to not be pretentious?

Because if this is you while trying to temper your elitism when it comes to the definitions of film and what films can and cannot be considered important as milestones or to certain cultures, I don't want to hear you in a normal conversation. And I say this as a film student.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,637
It's not trying to be. But it's like comparing a comic strip on your sunday paper to something that might be sitting in a museum etc.
I really don't see how Hollywood blockbusters can be viewed as cinema, unless you have a mind of a 10 yr old, and you're life revolves around comic books and video games.

Now there are FAR more better movies about African culture than a fuckin Marvel movie, c'moon. This is definetly good for kids, and will definetly spark some inspiration.
Even African cinema has some excellent standouts in the recent years, miles above this.
Get over yourself...
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
That's a no dawg.

Fences doesn't empower. Fences still deals with being oppressed.

Moonlight is empowering for the Black LGBT community.

Black Panther is empowering for Africans, African Americans, and Black people period.

Yeah, that's what I tried to address in the rest of my post. BP isn't about addressing the past struggles of black people but celebrating them in an unapologetic, unmediated way.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,886
Finland
Thing is 6 year old black kids aren't going to watch Moonlight, but they're sure as hell are going to watch Black Panther. There's seeing representation at the Oscars for a Drama, and then there's seeing it in a Disney produced tent pole.
Moonlight is a very important film. However, it is a R-rated arthouse film, so it's not going to have the same appeal as a big studio venture aimed at and marketed to all audiences. Especially in the middle of the superhero era.
Yeah the rating is a good point about boxoffice. But still, Deadpool 783 million and Moonlight 65. So the R-rating isn't really an explanation. But yeah my point was that I'm extremely disappointed that films like Moonlight don't have the same appeal and hype culture behind it. That's how it is, I just wish it wasn't.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
I really don't see how Hollywood blockbusters can be viewed as cinema, unless you have a mind of a 10 yr old, and you're life revolves around comic books and video games.
So we're just gonna pretend that the movie about space wizards isn't consistently hailed as one of the greatest pieces of cinema ever?
 

ShaheedMalik

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,968
Yeah the rating is a good point about boxoffice. But still, Deadpool 783 million and Moonlight 65. So the R-rating isn't really an explanation. But yeah my point was that I'm extremely disappointed that movies like Moonlight don't have the same appeal and hype culture behind it. That's how it is, I just wish it wasn't.

Moonlight's parallel is movies like The Wood. Moonlight made 65 on, I'm sure, a minimal budget.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,764
Sure, you are right, still it is the result of a massive overhype of the movie - like when half of the topics on front page were Black Panther related.
You could just ignore the topics instead of shitting on people for being genuinely excited about positive blockbuster film representation for black people and the sociopolitical themes of the film. That might be more productive.

Best movie of all time? Lmao

Okay. It's just a fun popcorn movie. No real film theorist will ever take that list seriously.
I feel like I need to keep repeating what's actually in the op.

I also wouldn't classify BP as "just" a fun popcorn movie, although it is also that.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
This is the attitude I was talking about.

The movie wasn't deliberately ranked as #1 of all time by anyone, BP fans or otherwise. The list was generated by an algorithm that weirdly takes into account performance, number of reviews, and other factors, and hardly the artistic merit of the film in question.

But yeah, it earned it because it's a good movie with a mostly black cast.

Can I be an asshole for a second?

A few days before the movie was out, I came out and said that the reviews were making me optimistic that the inherent qualities of the movie, divorced from its significance for the black community, were good enough to prevent anyone from trying to pull the "it's reviewing so well because PC/people are afraid to be honest about the movie", and people jumped on me (don't know if you remember) saying I had ulterior motives. I was precisely talking about what we're seeing here.

In fact I think RT's mistake/stunt hurts the movie because by managing to put an unearned (and unrequested) label on it it exposes it to criticism and comparisons that would have never happened otherwise. Black Panther is one of the best movies ever in its own category? Cool, let's put it against Truffaut and watch the flames catch up.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,748
Sure, you are right, still it is the result of a massive overhype of the movie - like when half of the topics on front page were Black Panther related.

It's almost like there's a significant cultural relevance that you're ignoring so you can simply call the film "overhyped"

Maybe half the pages on the front page speaks to the excitement and popularity of the film and not "overhype"?

Literally you've never seen a film like that and you're wondering why people are going crazy over it; think harder
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,074
So we're just gonna pretend that the movie about space wizards isn't consistently hailed as one of the greatest pieces of cinema ever?

Is it though? They never get Star Wars an Oscar, even when it deserved one. And, while I think ESB is the Greatest Movie of All Time and it typically ranks high in critic polls, I don't know any serious critic hailing it as the best movie of all time.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,296
Majority of Black movies tend to deal with our tragedy and present day troubles. I'm well fucking aware of the shit we've been through and what we presently face. I tired of seeing our ass get beat on film.

Black Panther is a celebration of African Culture and Identity. A celebration.

The fact that this thread is ALOT of white people saying that slave and civil rights films are more significant and important and deserve more hype than a fictional empowerment film says ALOT.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
I also wouldn't classify BP as "just" a fun popcorn movie, although it is also that.

Yeah, expecially because compared to the movies that actually belong to its genre and category BP is basically unprecedented in terms of dept and in many ways writing.

Really, this entire thing is basically the same as seeing a new Black Panther arc coming out in the comicbook universe and being praised as one of the best if not the best comicbook series ever, it ranking number one in the best reviewed items on Amazon's literature page, and people yelling "Oh really, how does it compare to John Irving and Harper Lee?".
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,748
Yeah the rating is a good point about boxoffice. But still, Deadpool 783 million and Moonlight 65. So the R-rating isn't really an explanation. But yeah my point was that I'm extremely disappointed that films like Moonlight don't have the same appeal and hype culture behind it. That's how it is, I just wish it wasn't.

Your commitment to pitting a black movie versus another black movie in completely different genres against each other I necessarily is very noted.

You believe black people should only get hype for small personal art house films about abuse and struggle, which obliviously ignores a big reason why black panther is so refreshing to Black audiences

Majority of Black movies tend to deal with our tragedy and present day troubles. I'm well fucking aware of the shit we've been through and what we presently face. I tired of seeing our ass get beat on film.

Black Panther is a celebration of African Culture and Identity. A celebration.

The fact that this thread is ALOT of white people saying that slave and civil rights films are more significant and important and deserve more hype than a fictional empowerment film says ALOT.

It's like they can only see black pain be celebrated in cinema. A film like this that causes so many black celebration must be "overhyped" and somehow "sad" that we support it
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,296
Your commitment to pitting a black movie versus another black movie in completely different genres against each other I necessarily is very noted.

You believe black people should only get hype for small personal art house films about abuse and struggle, which obliviously ignores a big reason why black panther is so refreshing to Black audiences

Tell Em
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,764
Can I be an asshole for a second?

A few days before the movie was out, I came out and said that the reviews were making me optimistic that the inherent qualities of the movie, divorced from its significance for the black community, were good enough to prevent anyone from trying to pull the "it's reviewing so well because PC/people are afraid to be honest about the movie", and people jumped on me (don't know if you remember) saying I had ulterior motives. I was precisely talking about what we're seeing here.

In fact I think RT's mistake/stunt hurts the movie because by managing to put an unearned (and unrequested) label on it it exposes it to criticism and comparisons that would have never happened otherwise. Black Panther is one of the best movies ever in its own category? Cool, let's put it against Truffaut and watch the flames catch up.
Black Panther, along with other dubious nominations, being on the list doesn't matter because the list was generated by an algorithm that weighs factors both critics and laymen would not, at least in the same ways. It is a nice sentiment and really funny coincidence on top of the rest of the positive reception and analysis; nothing more or less.

The fact that people can't be bothered to understand this and need to let the world know how they really feel about a black superhero movie being in such a conversation is far, far, far more telling of them and their character than it is of Rotten Tomatoes.

Like, seriously, people got triggered by a list on a site most of them don't even like, and I feel I'm the only one willing to ask "Why?"
 

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,889
It's not Coogler's best film (or his second-best film), but it's good and, critically, it's still his. Too many of these films get handed off to young up-and-coming directors because they're easy to micromanage and willing to compromise their vision.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,748
Is it though? They never get Star Wars an Oscar, even when it deserved one. And, while I think ESB is the Greatest Movie of All Time and it typically ranks high in critic polls, I don't know any serious critic hailing it as the best movie of all time.

Turns out no serious critic is calling BP the "best" movie of all time but the algorithms had it ranked that high because of the amount of reviews and their overwhelming positivity towards the film

Of course can't have the revolutionary groundbreaking film celebrated for the "wrong" reasons like it did multiple things that no one has ever seen in the whole ass medium of film before
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,886
Finland
Your commitment to pitting a black movie versus another black movie in completely different genres against each other I necessarily is very noted.

You believe black people should only get hype for small personal art house films about abuse and struggle, which obliviously ignores a big reason why black panther is so refreshing to Black audiences
Oh please, I'm not pitting them against each other. You probably haven't read my posts in this thread, in the same first post where I mentioned Moonlight I also said that that I'm glad Black Panther is doing well and that it's a good thing for representation. They both could be extremely popular, Black Panther isn't taking anything away from Moonlight. Neither would had Moonlight being a box office hit taken away from Black Panther. Don't start that with me. My problem is that only the other one is this hyped, I'd prefer if both were. I also compared it to Deadpool box office, that's very white movie. Or that's how I remember it atleast.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
Every one keeps bringing up TDK when the superior film was the one before it, BB.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,983
It's not trying to be. But it's like comparing a comic strip on your sunday paper to something that might be sitting in a museum etc.
I really don't see how Hollywood blockbusters can be viewed as cinema, unless you have a mind of a 10 yr old, and you're life revolves around comic books and video games.

Now there are FAR more better movies about African culture than a fuckin Marvel movie, c'moon. This is definetly good for kids, and will definetly spark some inspiration.
Even African cinema has some excellent standouts in the recent years, miles above this.
If Hollywood blockbusters can't be viewed as cinema, then why are films like Raiders and Jaws constantly seen and placed high on lists like such as these.?
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,748
Man, people are so full of shit

We can say: no film with this high a budget, or in the genre, set in Africa, with an African main character, mostly black cast, by a black writer & director, inspired aesthetically from African cultures has ever made this much money before and has already outgrossed other recent films in the genre and broke a bunch of tickets sales/box office records has ever been made before

And some y'all assholes will be like "this isn't even the first black superhero movie, what about Blade?"
 

hotcyder

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,861
You'd almost think people are toeing around saying that The Dark Knight is to white people what Black Panther is for African Americans

Nearly every movie is made by, with and for a White audience, even when they think they aren't. Let Black Panther be the exception that sets the precedent.