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BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,968
Australia
I feel like a dickhead for supporting her now. I truly believed her that she was offered a max 4k for the role and that was it. The story has changed completely now and not only does she look like a mug, but she's ruining the actual legitimate conversation around voice actors pay.

I will in future hold my tongue until the full story appears

Respect for admitting you were wrong, but I honestly don't know if the bolded is necessarily right. The fact is that in the vast majority of cases, a VA speaking out against game companies for offering garbage pay is going to be telling the truth, and in important part of the fight for those VAs is believing them and supporting them early, not waiting around for a "full story" that will likely never come.

Union base pay scale is $956.75 for up to 3 voices in a 4-hour day. So around $250/hr.
Otherwise correct, gig pay needs to account for time spent auditioning, sponsored health insurance, paid leave and other benefits that regular workers get.

That said, one can't expect to earn enough money to last a year on a 20hour gig, which is what Taylor seems to imply with her use of "living wage".

Ah, yes, sorry, I was mixing up a grand a session with a grand an hour. Thanks for correcting me. Non-union VA gigs must be barely enough to survive on.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,065
why is she so adamant to die on this hill....you ain't fooling anyone.
 

ROMASS

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 15, 2018
590
That last thread screams panic mode to me.
Also keeping with ambiguous statements, no proof, and random accusations.
Yet, looks like there's more truth here than in the 4 videos she had all the time to film, retake and reword.

She said in the first videos that she had a friend translating her letter for her.
Wouldn't that break any NDA she had at that point? Not a great way to conduct negotiations if so.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,197
Toronto
Very impressive feat to keep up the accusatory tone in a thread where you just... entirely confirm the reporting you still insist is a lie???

Wew I'm looking forward to everyone ducking behind "he said she said" and "healthy skepticism" coming back now that the story's all confirmed straight from her own tweets.

Jason: "She asked for 6 figures"
The internet: "wow, she wanted 100,000 that's crazy"
Taylor: "that's a lie, I never once asked for $250,000"
This was my absolute favourite part of the exchange omg, the most blatant example of a strawman argument, knocking down an exact figure that literally nobody stated in order to avoid the actual claim of "6 figures" which was largely discussed as 100k. It's not a coincidence that she doesn't state what her actual ask was beyond the "living wage" phrase which is literally insane to expect from a singular weekend gig.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,931
Wow it's really hard to grasp what she wanted.

She claims she's only offered $4,000 in Bayonetta 3
Bloomberg disputes that she's actually offered $3000-$4000 per session. With an educated guess that it takes 4-5 session to voice the game, this lands her in $12000 - $20000 for total offer. Which she declined, and ultimately Platinum only offered $4000 for a cameo appearance.
She then claimed $4000 for 5 session are total fabrications while also confirming she was offered $15000 total in the same thread??

Like I don't get what her argument is now. She's just trying to dismantle the article by saying the minute details are wrong but the end result is the same.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,385

It's a bit weird he's putting it like that, because him calling the situation "complicated" in his article (despite his evidence) made it seem like he's not taking a side either, thus supporting the view that the story was murky and not clear cut.

Where does she got that $450 mil figure from?? Did she count Smash Bros game as well?
I think the number's derived from VGChartz, but with multiple errors along the way.

If you search for Bayonetta on VGChartz and just add everything together (note: by doing that you add the total franchise sales to the indiviual titles' sales thus counting them double or even triple, but it's not obvious if you don't know what you're looking at) you arrive at roughly 8 million copies sold. If you multiple 8 million by 60USD (the price of a game, not taking into account sales, royalties, retail etc) you get 480 million USD, which is close enough to the 450 million she quotes.
 

Mickagau

Member
Dec 11, 2018
2,196
France
Wow it's really hard to grasp what she wanted.

She claims she's only offered $4,000 in Bayonetta 3
Bloomberg disputes that she's actually offered $3000-$4000 per session. With an educated guess that it takes 4-5 session to voice the game, this lands her in $12000 - $20000 for total offer. Which she declined, and ultimately Platinum only offered $4000 for a cameo appearance.
She then claimed $4000 for 5 session are total fabrications while also confirming she was offered $15000 total in the same thread??

Like I don't get what her argument is now. She's just trying to dismantle the article by saying the minute details are wrong but the end result is the same.
A Kotaku article about her counter claim appeared in my timeline, titled "Bayonetta's Original Voice Actor Disputes Claims, Says She Only Asked For 'A Fair, Living Wage" and I read it...and was SO confused by it because she basically validated the Bloomberg report.
 

Ausroachman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,417
Wish I got paid 15 000 for the equivalent of 20 or 30 hours work.

Would love my work to give me an entire years worth of salary for 1 week of effort, but that's not how life works.

She's really got tickets on herself
 

LiS Matt

Member
Jan 19, 2018
1,097
Yep, in some ways this is even damaging to VAs rights and fights. :(
Yeah that's my fear. Whenever this legitimately comes up in issues people on the business side can point to this whole situation, by which point most of the detail will be forgotten and only the sentiment (greedy/manipulating truth/whatever) will remain
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,034
CT
What'll be more embarrassing today then this response will be the people who'll continue to cape for Taylor after this.
 

m4st4

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,505
Bayo 3 will be even tastier this Friday after long working hours. Hale ftw and looks like an awesome entry in the series already.
 

Morisaki

Member
Oct 29, 2017
177
I think my take away from this is that way too many people lack critical thinking. (Even though I should know better.)

Even now I see comments on Taylor's latest tweets to the effect of needing evidence from either Taylor and/or PG/Schreier.
But why do you need evidence when both sides pretty much agree on payment amount offered?
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,621
I've more or less stayed out of this whole thing, but did initially take her word for it. A baseline assumption of credibility is offered to anyone unknown through common decency, and believing someone claiming to have been wronged is not a failure. But I suppose what to take from this situation is to try to be more wary of kneejerking or committing too hard and early to a stance regarding a situation in the process of unfolding.
www.wired.com

Beware the Distraction of the Twitter Mob Campaign

A kerfuffle over Bayonetta voice actor Hellena Taylor’s pay reveals the often hollow structure of social media activism.

And like, could those accusing her of being a blue lives matter terf trumpist or whatever, include the basis for those allegations in their posts? It's so annoying and stupid when people just spread stuff without anything to support it. Whether the information you're sharing is true and relevant, I can not believe you, random internet person with no credentials. Spreading unsourced, unverified information is how you get ants.
 
Sep 20, 2021
619
Respect for admitting you were wrong, but I honestly don't know if the bolded is necessarily right. The fact is that in the vast majority of cases, a VA speaking out against game companies for offering garbage pay is going to be telling the truth, and in important part of the fight for those VAs is believing them and supporting them early, not waiting around for a "full story" that will likely never come.

It was very obvious that Taylors statements are very fishy. Someone who had been really interested in this thema, could for example just read a bit about the series sales numbers and would see that it is not such a big franchise. The numbers Taylor (her payment, the series worth) mentioned doesn't make sense in any way from the beginning (that a more prominent and probably more expensive VA had been cast as her successor should have been a hint too). But people who mentioned that Taylors statements have been not adding up or have blatant errors, have been insulted as corporate lovers and worse. Even in era threads.

Taylor insulting her successor, saying obviously false numbers and citing weird bible verses should have been at least a hint for people to think a bit but most had just venting and following the "bad corpo is bad to helpless employee" narrative. Taylor used that narrative to hurt the people she hates, because she thinks they did not pay her enough.

If I not missed anything Taylor even not said a word after her successor got harassed soon after Taylor published her lies and insults. That was another warn sign that Taylor might not be a nice person that you can trust blindly.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,385
Wow it's really hard to grasp what she wanted.

She claims she's only offered $4,000 in Bayonetta 3
Bloomberg disputes that she's actually offered $3000-$4000 per session. With an educated guess that it takes 4-5 session to voice the game, this lands her in $12000 - $20000 for total offer. Which she declined, and ultimately Platinum only offered $4000 for a cameo appearance.
She then claimed $4000 for 5 session are total fabrications while also confirming she was offered $15000 total in the same thread??

Like I don't get what her argument is now. She's just trying to dismantle the article by saying the minute details are wrong but the end result is the same.

She's likely just being manipulative. She owns the $15k claim to divert attention from her lying about it the first time around (it wasn't a lie because I admit to it), so she can instead portray less important details as lies to make the report seem false (also notice how she specifically says 4k per session is a lie when the report said 3k-4k - which likely boils down to 3k per regular session and 4k for the cameo session) and build up the strawman of $250k being a lie when that is a claim that hasn't actually been made. Also notice how she frames her tweets in a way that makes it appear as if her knowledge about the Bloomberg article is just second hand, which if pressed gives her a seemingly plausible excuse as to why she quotes the numbers wrong.

Why she's doing this though, I don't know. Maybe this all got bigger than she thought it would and now she's afraid that her being eternally attached to this story on Google will harm her non-VA prospects as well.
 
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Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Welp, she just dragged VA unions and actors through the mud spreading falsehood.

Corporate heads are so happy knowing AI VA is coming soon...
 

BlackLagoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,797
And honestly it's hard for me to believe she just got paid 3000 for the first game, after all this mess. She has completely broken NDAs before, she can show her past contracts, until then everything she says will be all lies to me.
She uses pounds in her tweet, not dollars, but just a bit over $3000 would be the union minimum for 4 four-hour sessions for a video game around 08-09. It's pretty plausible she accepted that since she was mostly doing non-union/dubbing work before that.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,838
Wow it's really hard to grasp what she wanted.

She claims she's only offered $4,000 in Bayonetta 3
Bloomberg disputes that she's actually offered $3000-$4000 per session. With an educated guess that it takes 4-5 session to voice the game, this lands her in $12000 - $20000 for total offer. Which she declined, and ultimately Platinum only offered $4000 for a cameo appearance.
She then claimed $4000 for 5 session are total fabrications while also confirming she was offered $15000 total in the same thread??

Like I don't get what her argument is now. She's just trying to dismantle the article by saying the minute details are wrong but the end result is the same.
Her videos are a lie of omission. She never said it was $4,000 for 5 sessions, but she implied it by saying that the final offer was $4,000 while leaving out the details of the initial 10,000 and 15,000 offers. So in these tweets she's trying to say that it's not her fault that everyone assumed it was $4,000 for 5 sessions.
 

Nikokuno

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jul 22, 2019
762
Screw her.

She is just pissed not to be the face of Bayonetta anymore. They give her 15k for a cameo, yet she turned it into something totally different.

"Maybe JS is wrong, maybe the source is from Nintendo/P+ so can't be trusted." Bunch of clowns.

And she's still riding that 450M figure like it's true.

Also fuck the stupid ass people on Twitter turning that into a "Women can't be trusted" propaganda.
 
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