none. the game is already budgeted and has started (pre)production.
and the exclusive playstation deal probably covered 80% of the games development cost.
[Bloomberg] Sales of FFXVI, VII Rebirth, and Foamstars failed to meet expectations
- Thread starter Clippy
- Start date
and the exclusive playstation deal probably covered 80% of the games development cost.
Lol I can't believe people are still spreading this delulu stuff as if they work at Square Enix.
yeah, good point. the lack of synergy between 14 and the sp games is crazy. There should be cross promotions, incentives constantly. But there is little to nothing. We know that live service enjoyers will buy whole ass games if it gives them something unique in the game they love, call of duty exploits this every year with the paid releases providing bonuses for warzone. I'm not saying square should force you to spend 80 euros on games you dont want to play just for some unique items, but... certainly, there should be something at least.
at least 14 has a 16 quest now... but 16 still has nothing from 14. Maybe the pc release..? Once again, for all of its flaws, 15 had a whole ass quest dedicated to ff14.
Wall of text BS answer to try and explain why their FF theme park games can't include other characters/games is just that. Sakurai can do Cloud, Hero, Sephiroth, and Riku in Smash but their own internal teams can't figure this stuff out?
I know plenty of people in my FC that literally do not play any other games and I knew people that similar back when I played WoW. It's an issue, just like how there are a lot of casual gamers that just play CoD or Fortnite.
Also Yoshi P says that shit but doesn't let me take a break without my house demolishing. 🙄
I know plenty of people in my FC that literally do not play any other games and I knew people that similar back when I played WoW. It's an issue, just like how there are a lot of casual gamers that just play CoD or Fortnite.
Also Yoshi P says that shit but doesn't let me take a break without my house demolishing. 🙄
Ultimately it's bad news for fans of both games. It was said earlier, but the true bad ending came to pass, neither XVI or Rebirth sold well and in all likelihood Remake part 3 will also suffer for it. I don't think there's much to say, the 100 page Rebirth sales thread has covered most based on how it happened. I think the interesting thing will be the "What's next?" what does Final Fantasy XVII have to do to correct course?
Exclusivity is down so that's one thing, but making it as appealing as possible is another. That's something I don't think just looking at Rebirth or XVI or even XV will enough to accomplish. Square will need to find the answer there i guess, but I'm curious what their interim strategy is going to be like. They're not seriously only banking on Dawntrail (which according to the devs seems to be doing well preorder wise) and Visions of Mana right? If summer passes with nothing I'd be surprised especially after this stock hit like god damn ballsy if so.
Exclusivity is down so that's one thing, but making it as appealing as possible is another. That's something I don't think just looking at Rebirth or XVI or even XV will enough to accomplish. Square will need to find the answer there i guess, but I'm curious what their interim strategy is going to be like. They're not seriously only banking on Dawntrail (which according to the devs seems to be doing well preorder wise) and Visions of Mana right? If summer passes with nothing I'd be surprised especially after this stock hit like god damn ballsy if so.
Yeah, that's basically what I have been saying! I'm curious to see if the series can really break out big or if it is going to end up stalling out at a certain point.
If Persona manages to break out of that sales range it could be telling the genre does actually have broader appeal, but if it gets stuck in the same ballpark then maybe that is really just the cap of what JRPGs can manage.
For me it seems like FF has fallen from a series that transcends the JRPG genre to something that only really sells to genre fans. SE may need to just accept that and instead focus on delivering games at reasonable scales that sell consistently well but not amazing.
I find it interesting that the games didn't meet targets but didn't necessarily sell bad.
Shareholders' thirst for infinite growth strikes again.
That said, it seems like a no-brainier to release these on PC and Switch 2 as soon as possible. The longer they wait, the worse sales will get on those platforms.
Shareholders' thirst for infinite growth strikes again.
That said, it seems like a no-brainier to release these on PC and Switch 2 as soon as possible. The longer they wait, the worse sales will get on those platforms.
To be fair, if theyre targeting a 2027 release as they said, its reasonable to have this conclusion.
The lack of an identity was fine in the PS2 era where games didn't take 5-6 years to get out the door because if a game was a misfire then you move on to the next one. Significantly less risk was involved and creatives also had more opportunity to experiment resulting in things that resonated with parts of the core base.
Square Enix made a bad deal by binding it´s most iconic franchise to a sony console in the last 5 years.
Seeing Elden Ring, a Jrpg, seel more the 20 millions worlwide on the two big consoles and on pc must be really burning.
Seeing Dragon quest monsters, Square enix own published game, sell more then FF XVI in japan last year must have been eye opening.
Sony is digging a hole for itself in the japanese market and Square Enix fallowed.
Seeing Elden Ring, a Jrpg, seel more the 20 millions worlwide on the two big consoles and on pc must be really burning.
Seeing Dragon quest monsters, Square enix own published game, sell more then FF XVI in japan last year must have been eye opening.
Sony is digging a hole for itself in the japanese market and Square Enix fallowed.
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Not surprising and, honestly? Good. The money hats were getting a bit long in the tooth at the start of this console gen. The fact that Square was dumb enough to sign an exclusivity contract for a trilogy of games that will take 10+ years to make is on them. This industry changes exponentially in a decades time, making it extra stupid for Square to take whatever small amount of money from Sony to limit your most popular IP to a small base of 30M PS5 users and ignore the Steam/Windows/Xbox
I look forward to FF16 on GamePass tho
I look forward to FF16 on GamePass tho
Yeah, especially if they expected increasing returns the trilogy plan makes little sense. People who didn't play the first one or had their fill with it are unlikely to return for next parts, and and timed exclusivity just made things worse. Of course sequels to part one are not going to sell as much regardless all the production values and effort. Part 3 is likely doomed to sell even less just due to even more people having enough and new players still not picking it up without playing first ones.
I'm a Rebirth Stan and this is nonsense. We already know the success of Remake helped define the scope of Rebirth. Part 3 surely won't be cancelled, but the poor sales of Rebirth will definitely impact how much they're willing to invest.
My guess would be they'll strip down some of the side content and expansion and focus on delivering the key story content. Honestly Rebirth already satisfied the content feast aspect of an FF game, so Part 3 being more focused sounds fine by me.
Conclusion of what? Obviously Part 3 will still be released. Sunk costs and all. But the idea that it has been "budgeted" and hence impossible to be impacted by any change is not how businesses work at all. Resources can always be diverted, things can be cut, opportunity costs have to be weighed against profitability of the product, etc.
I won't even begin to entertain the nonsense idea that Sony is covering 80% of the development lmao.
Absolute nonsense.
If it is, it missed the mark entirely.
Anecdotal evidence and all, but the one person I know who is really into FF14 really disliked FF16. Gave up on it after a few hours. She loved FF15 though. And she also loved some of the old games (specifically FF7 & 9), although she didn't like Remake.
In contrast, Granblue Fantasy: Relink seems to be well regarded among fans of the gatcha series.
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Real shame because XVI is a return to quality for me after a long drought in the series and feel like it's way mor deserving of success than XIII and XV.
Can't speak for Remake/Rebirth. Didn't enjoy Remake. Frustrated me in quite a few ways but respect it's also a big quality jump from XIII and XV too.
I don't think simply releasing on Xbox would have done anything here though. PC maybe.
Can't speak for Remake/Rebirth. Didn't enjoy Remake. Frustrated me in quite a few ways but respect it's also a big quality jump from XIII and XV too.
I don't think simply releasing on Xbox would have done anything here though. PC maybe.
yeah theres no way sony covering 80% of the costs lmao thats crazy
Still salty that this basically results in less AA games, which is where Square have been shining in the last few years of me. XVI was a severe disappointment, but VIIR was fantastic. The problem with the two of them though is exclusivity, especially now we're nearly a year on from XVI's release. How can it grow when it's stuck on the one console? I have no clue why they didn't get a PC release out to coincide with the release of the 2nd DLC.
DQ XII is also just an oddity too, and I'm sure with the fact they seem to be potentially banking on it to be a AAA release despite it being more niche (in the West) they will also be disappointed in sales numbers. Games are just taking too long to come out, and then when they do, they're stifled by things like exclusivity. Mostly though I think it is just Square overestimating their sales numbers, when they fundamentally make what are now considered to be niche games.
DQ XII is also just an oddity too, and I'm sure with the fact they seem to be potentially banking on it to be a AAA release despite it being more niche (in the West) they will also be disappointed in sales numbers. Games are just taking too long to come out, and then when they do, they're stifled by things like exclusivity. Mostly though I think it is just Square overestimating their sales numbers, when they fundamentally make what are now considered to be niche games.
I don't disagree with the first part because it's been months and they mentioned already finishing the story of part 3, but come on man look at the OP, SE literally said it didn't meet initial expectations, it definitely didn't have that much covered by the deal let's be serious.
Oh sorry, I was referring to that it was already in pre-production and most likely have a budget to work with already.
No wonder things are rough for them. S-E has mastered the art of selling games to corporations instead of building brands and selling to as many consumers as possible.
Of course this kind of corporate stupidity will backfire.
Of course this kind of corporate stupidity will backfire.
Buy FFXVII and get this exclusive mount/glamour in FFXIV.
I disagree, I think FF has a very strong identity. One that isn't really linked to specific gameplay mechanics but rather what you think of when you think of a major FF game. It's not "every game is different" + big budget. It's "Japanese style linear story RPG" + "cinematic story telling" + "big budget." And of course all the cultural touchstones that make FF what it is - the different summons, chocobos, moogles, mix of high-tech scifi stuff and fantasy with swords and magic. It's a pretty unique identity that pretty much only FF carries today in the industry.
However, this is an identity that is not very compatible with what the large mainstream audience would resonate with.
When selling a few million copies was considered the top of the gaming industry, FF was one of the kings along with other brands and genres.
When selling close to 10 million was considered the top of the gaming industry, FF could still compete even though they were no longer close to the top5.
When selling 10-20 million is considered the starting tier for the top of the gaming industry, what FF is simply cannot compete anymore.
The problem is not that FF doesn't have an identity or doesn't have an audience. It does. But the escalating costs that S-E wants to invest in to compete at the top level is disproportional to the cap of the success that FF can actually attain because of what it is.
I also think that after decades of making games that were geared at all ages or teens making an M-rated game with gore, sex scenes, and swearing was a big misfire. Would have been fine for a spin-off, but I think it was a mistake to do it in a main numbered entry. I think a lot of the appeal of the series was that it could tackle heavy subjects while not getting overly graphic.
No thanks, they're ugly as sin.
Developers need to stop mixing pixel art with modern 2D aesthetics. lol
I think it's a bit of a mistake to assume that because someone is playing FF14 they like final fantasy as a whole.
FFXIV is an MMORPG, it's a multiplayer experience, the fact that it has a phenomenal (essentially) single player storyline might honestly just be incidental to a lot of these people. They might just be there because they can play with their friends not because it's final fantasy and getting them excited for a new mainline FF might just be a fools errand.
It's like assuming most of the people who play world of warcraft even care about the RTS's or would even play a new one.
FFXIV is an MMORPG, it's a multiplayer experience, the fact that it has a phenomenal (essentially) single player storyline might honestly just be incidental to a lot of these people. They might just be there because they can play with their friends not because it's final fantasy and getting them excited for a new mainline FF might just be a fools errand.
It's like assuming most of the people who play world of warcraft even care about the RTS's or would even play a new one.
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Agreed, in my FC we have multiple "gamers" who play plenty of other games but not FF.
The people who do started playing those games BEFORE XIV (like myself).
I don't think the scope of part 3 will be impacted for various reasons, but I have to admit I actually belly laughed at the idea of the Sony deal covering 80%. Fucking hell. Not even in the same state, leave alone zip code.
Also agree with everyone saying the FFXIV audience would be very hard to win over to their SP games. MMO gamers are some of the stickiest audiences by design, and the main series doesn't really have a ton of overlap with the core appeal of the MMO.
They should absolutely have pushed FFXVI to PC to appeal to the XIV audience, but I really doubt they'll find much success that way. They're just different audiences.
I think XVI was at the tipping point of going viral after the demo which leaned most strongly into that tone. Strong early sales really show it resonated.
The problem is they didn't commit to that style for the rest of the game, so the legs just disappeared overnight.
I was skeptical with all the pre-release marketing but the demo got me on board with their vision. Then the actual game ended up being a slight disappointment for me personally.
They should absolutely have pushed FFXVI to PC to appeal to the XIV audience, but I really doubt they'll find much success that way. They're just different audiences.
I think XVI was at the tipping point of going viral after the demo which leaned most strongly into that tone. Strong early sales really show it resonated.
The problem is they didn't commit to that style for the rest of the game, so the legs just disappeared overnight.
I was skeptical with all the pre-release marketing but the demo got me on board with their vision. Then the actual game ended up being a slight disappointment for me personally.
it will be super hard task to convert ff14 players to play sp ff games
many people that played the game does not give a fuck about final fantasy at all, like 80-90% of my friendlists and fc in ff14 never and does not have any interests in playing other ff games, then add vast percentages of playerbase that only play the game for RP/socializing, its a nah
many people that played the game does not give a fuck about final fantasy at all, like 80-90% of my friendlists and fc in ff14 never and does not have any interests in playing other ff games, then add vast percentages of playerbase that only play the game for RP/socializing, its a nah
I don't remember, but wasn't the announcement of the remake project a bit of a case of 'break glass in case of emergency' thing?
Certainly us fans were hoping it would help bring FF to the forefront again, but with the delays, splitting it up into parts, exclusivity and late ports, fucking around with the story, that hope didn't come true.
I wonder, despite Remake part 1's impressive sales, how many were turned off by the 'twist' in the story? Pretty sure that contributed to the weaker sales of Rebirth - people going 'what the fuck did all that mean' after finishing Remake and decided not to come back.
It certainly cooled down my enthusiasm somewhat, eventhough I was already commited to experiencing the whole trilogy. (*cough*and it happened again with Rebirth*cough*)
I dont think anyones implying that you can wholesale make the ff14 crowd buy all other SP ff titles. However, it is a gigantic crowd and it is a bit foolish to not even attempt to incentivize interest by doing cross promotions and whatnot.
also, there absolutely was quite a bit of interest from 14 players towards 16 pre release, but it has definitely somewhat flattened overtime as presumably not 14 players are on pc (?)
One cannot say this with such confidence when SE hasn't even tried to tap into the XIV playerbase in regards to getting them interested in other FF titles at all. Entertaining this line of thinking isn't too far removed from arguing that going multiplatform with a day and date PC release won't actually do anything either because FF is too tied to Sony or something.
We already have a big portion of that fanbase loudly declaring that they'd follow Ishikawa to whatever new project she may be writing. That has to count for something and it might be worth pursuing, because the current state of things is not working.
I have a feeling that FF XVI is Square Enix looking at the sales of The Witcher 3 and saying "I want that."
It always seems that they are very reactive to what is successful in the industry and try to imitate it. I mean, Foamstars....
FF def needs a gameplay identity which it has lost since FFX. People pretending all the games are so so so different imo are kind deluding themselves to win weird arguments. FF gameplay from I to X has been different in the same ways Street Fighter gameplay has been different you can go into the nitty gritty and yes illustrate that there are meaningful differences but overall Street Fighter was still a fighting game the same way FF was a turn based game (or call it atb game I dunno what terminology people wanna use to not get up in a jiffy I personally would prefer to say they were JRPGs but then people would go crazy in other ways I assume).
You don't have that anymore after 10. There is more binding gameplay identity between BotW and Skyward sword in my opinion vs FF13 and FF15.
You don't have that anymore after 10. There is more binding gameplay identity between BotW and Skyward sword in my opinion vs FF13 and FF15.
all the pc bros in here taking some serious copium
Games stink, no one wants bloated CG pseudo-timeline wank fests that aren't impressive in an era where actual gameplay and story can be found in thousands of cheaper, more fun games
Games stink, no one wants bloated CG pseudo-timeline wank fests that aren't impressive in an era where actual gameplay and story can be found in thousands of cheaper, more fun games
I'm not sure the PC releases will make up for the lost sales on console. Maybe the PC will meet expectations but I see no reason for it to overperform.
Late port, probably will be full price at that, from a company that hasn't really treated PC all that well in the past.
Not sure people will be clamoring for FFXVI now that the hype is over or Rebirth when Remake wasn't a massive seller due to Epic exclusivity, just judging by number of Steam reviews.
Late port, probably will be full price at that, from a company that hasn't really treated PC all that well in the past.
Not sure people will be clamoring for FFXVI now that the hype is over or Rebirth when Remake wasn't a massive seller due to Epic exclusivity, just judging by number of Steam reviews.
I think that's been a problem with FF for a while. FF13 was the same thing - they really wanted to get that big AAA Western game money and so they tried to copy the style and it didn't really work. Love the game, but it's a complete mess.
I'd not say it's toxic to state a fact, the game had a slow start and JRPG legs are not known for being very strong let's say. The series has the potential to crack 8-10 million when handled right, this will never dream to get there and it's likely to there in terms of cost, the writing was on the wall. As long as the power creep growth keeps coming so will need to sell more, not significantly less.
Right now the game has the honor of beating Xenoblade and Tales, but not by nearly as much as one would expect. It's not gloating, some of us are worried about the franchise, I found the direction of the game very 'time to grow our userbase' and the isn't what happened.
Definitely agree with this! People twist themselves into knots trying to say "every FF game is totally different from the last", and yet there's a clear line of gameplay and storytelling evolution that connects FF1-X.
Then they started going crazy from XII onwards. Heck I'd argue even just the XIII trilogy play more differently from each other than any individual entry in the entire run of IV-IX.