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Which Vault Hunter are you going with for your first playthrough?

  • Moze the Gunner

    Votes: 403 20.9%
  • Amara the Siren

    Votes: 504 26.1%
  • Zane the Operative

    Votes: 360 18.6%
  • FL4K the Beastmaster

    Votes: 664 34.4%

  • Total voters
    1,931

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,244
They are nerfing the broken weapons...
Lyuda, crossroad and cutsman are still god tier. Hex was bugged and not working as should.
Only exception is flakker, but it's still a good option on moze build.

Many of the supposed "buffs" were done on weapons that were trash not solely because of their damage or firing rate, but because of the way they actually shot the bullets. They still aren't much better to use. They nerfed the "god tier" weapons that made Mayhem 3 actually fun with any modifier, and now you're left with a selection of trash, especially in the grenade department. The Maggie buff is only a slight reversion of the previous nerf too which ruined it, and it's still not that good. A "15% buff" on garbage, is still garbage. At least the Laser-Sploder wasn't hit. Yet.

Things might change once they actually fix Mayhem 3, but as it stands right now, this is the weakest everyone has been, and Moze just took an even bigger dive off of a cliff than Fl4K previously did. Boss farming for everyone just got shit on too with the Projector nerf.

Glad I was already burned out playing the same two characters out of four for a few days now anyway, and also glad I gave up bothering trying to get a radiation Hex. Back to Diablo 3 until the 25th I guess.
 

Speedlynx

Member
Nov 22, 2017
827
If you think that nerfing three pieces of gear in a game with literally hundreds ruins the game, you really don't have anyone to blame but yourself.
Please don't be reductionist. This isn't just one instance. They nerfed King's/Queen's Call, they've nerfed Fl4k's skills(his main build), then Moze's skills (her main build), and now they've gutted Moze even more by overnerfing three popular weapons. Tons of hours farming gone right after increased loot week. You can't even stockpile legendaries to compensate for Gearbox's constant changes because of the bank limit.

Next they'll realize the huge mistake they've made with shield pickups and nerf big boom blaster. And I 100% expect Amara's mobbing skills to be nerfed next, along great mobbing guns like Brainstormer and Rowans Call. Oh you like nighthawkin? It would be a shame if something happened to it.

If this is the precedent BL3 has set I want no part of the game moving forward. This ain't Borderlands.
 

Deleted member 56580

User requested account closure
Banned
May 8, 2019
1,881
" Hey guys we know all 3 of the 'pet' builds suck ass and have no idea how to fix them so here's a little more health for em SHRUG and we will address this further at some other nebulous point in time"

and 4 hot fixes in and we have some improvements but TONS of nerfs to pretty much all the favorite things.
It's like they want NO FUN ALLOWED in my single fucking player game that I paid you assholes $60 for the pleasure of playing.

how about you spend some time working on improving the shitty aspects of your game instead of leaving the Fucking BEASTMASTER with no viable pet build, Crit build or really anything interesting at this point, to rot in a corner.

Nerfs are necessary I get it, but spending a month and4 hotfixes basically burning everything to the ground in the spirit of "build diversity" while ignoring long-standing issues is GETTING OLD.
Balance your nerfs with more buffs, more fixes, actual viability of pet/clone/bear at endgame.

I want to love this game. Gearbox is trying its hardest to make me despise it.
cant wait to see what the next HOTFIX brings. Maybe they will just get rid of FL4K pets line altogether lol!
/rant over
Sorry, I needed to vent. I feel like i am in an emotionally abusive relationship with BL3 at this point!

Fl4k's best build literally is a pet one since a long while tho. People just don't know how to play and cry like mad before actually trying things properly. Now I wasn't using Lyuda nor flakker that much so can't say I feel hit by the nerf, I've been in the brainstormer train since a long while, with the occasional radiation flakker here and then

I'm guessing Tina's nade is gonna be really good now

Also there are some purple weapons that people are really sleeping on, namely System Q and Quickie, these are insanely good. Same for the alien buzzurm

Also ² the laser guns are still destroying. One shotting PACKS of anointed mobs with one flakker shot was definitely op anyway
 
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Ganryu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
505
The guys complaining about nerfs should go back to BL2 where we have only 2 weapons and one shield... Super fun
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,279
The guys complaining about nerfs should go back to BL2 where we have only 2 weapons and one shield... Super fun
Game has barely been out a month and people are basically proclaiming they already know all possible build combinations with the 200 legendaries + annointed perks. Shits silly. Also got people claiming an 8% damage reduction ruins a gun while a 25% damage increase doesn't do shit.

I still say increase the bank size to like 400 per character and it's all good
 
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Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
I'm not that miffed by any specific nerfs. I just don't get the concept of nerfs in PvE games. The fun for a lot of people is just having a lot of crazy powerful weapons and powers to mess around with and find the fastest ways to melt bosses and get more good gear to experiment.

Nothing has seemed crazy broken. If they want more weapons and builds to be fun and viable I'd think the better solution would be to buff things that are under performing and going unused.

That's just me though and I tend to bore of end games fast as I'd rather move on to other games than repeat content a ton anyway so maybe the nerfs make sense for the service gamers that grind these end games for hundreds or thousands of hours.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,382
Interesting that the change to shield boosters was listed under bug fixes. Do you think that was just convenient or that it was actually a bug?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Wow they gutted the fuck out of Hex, Firestorm and Flakker. Lyuda got hit too, but not destroyed. I didn't really use any those much, but damn they are acting worse than Bungie.

People saying they will just play offline do know that once they drop the big patch all these changes will be unavoidable.

Please leave Amara alone. So far they have.
 

SirMossyBloke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,855
I'm not that miffed by any specific nerfs. I just don't get the concept of nerfs in PvE games.

Player retention. If you're already melting bosses in 5 seconds after a month, how quickly do you think people will be bored?

You could always not nerf the guns and make the bosses harder, but what happens to people that can't melt the bosses beforehand?

It's always a tricky thing to manage, it's just made worse by Gearbox obviously not checking some gear properly before release.
 

Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
Also got people claiming an 8% damage reduction ruins a gun while a 25% damage increase doesn't do shit.

I mean some of the guns they gave "25% damage increase" too are so shitty that you could double their damage and they still wouldn't be worth using....

Increasing the damage on a gun that shoots one bullet at a time when you have the option to use a gun that shoots 8 bullets at a time that ricochet to nearby targets and reload into your magazine automatically....why would anyone give a shit that you increased the damage on the first gun?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Cutsman nerf won't do shit now that people know you can switch to Trick Unforgiven to massively boost crit damage. The elemental damage mod nerf will hurt more.183 percent was ridiculous though. So it will still be gpod.
 

Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
Player retention. If you're already melting bosses in 5 seconds after a month, how quickly do you think people will be bored?

You could always not nerf the guns and make the bosses harder, but what happens to people that can't melt the bosses beforehand?

It's always a tricky thing to manage, it's just made worse by Gearbox obviously not checking some gear properly before release.

I suppose. I'd rather them just do frequent special events with harder versions of bosses in between the DLC expansions that raise level caps and introduce harder enemies, KI do kf like Destiny nightfalls and daily heroic missions. Some rotating more difficult versions of existing missions and bosses.

It also seems that with no microtransactions that players retention isn't as huge a deal in terms of wanting constant engagement. As long as they market the DLC well, and get the first one out on time and high quality, they're golden. They just need to sell those season packs and individual expansion standalones. Keeping people engaged helps sales of course, but once they've sold a season pass it doesn't really matter that much how long people play vs shelving and waiting for the next DLC to drop. Unlike games that want people playing daily/weekly and dropping cash on cosmetics etc.

I'd think rotating harder events would keep people engaged and more likely to buy the pass/dlc vs just obsessing over balance of the endgame stuff in the base game.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,146
Crossroads still shreds Graveward on Mayhem 3, even with a -50% SMG damage modifier. The Hex nerf is definitely noticeable, but it's still a good grenade on grenade-specced Gunners.


I didn't use any of the other guns that were heavily nerfed. One gun I was using prior to this hotfix, was the Devil's Foursum. I've got a radiation Foursum, and it was crazy with my Gunner. It got buffed slightly, so hey--I'll accept that!
 

SavoryTruffle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,409
Please don't be reductionist. This isn't just one instance. They nerfed King's/Queen's Call, they've nerfed Fl4k's skills(his main build), then Moze's skills (her main build), and now they've gutted Moze even more by overnerfing three popular weapons. Tons of hours farming gone right after increased loot week. You can't even stockpile legendaries to compensate for Gearbox's constant changes because of the bank limit.

Next they'll realize the huge mistake they've made with shield pickups and nerf big boom blaster. And I 100% expect Amara's mobbing skills to be nerfed next, along great mobbing guns like Brainstormer and Rowans Call. Oh you like nighthawkin? It would be a shame if something happened to it.

If this is the precedent BL3 has set I want no part of the game moving forward. This ain't Borderlands.

If anything I generally go out of my way to try and understand how people feel about these kinds of things. Actually being reductionist would probably get me banned, all things considered. Not that it really matters. People are generally responding the same way they responded when the first set of changes hit. Each additional set of changes has gotten the same response. Very few people have changed their take based on the particularities of the changes. It's mostly been the same response from the beginning in this game and that response has been the same response I've seen almost every time in almost every game where changes have been a thing almost uniformly for over a decade now.

People fucking hate nerfs. People really fucking hate nerfs. Holy fucking shit do people hate nerfs.

There does not seem to be a limit to the hatred. There does not seem to be any possible outcome that will be widely accepted under any circumstances other than simply never nerfing anything ever period. Anything aside from that extreme end point is absolutely unacceptable and will completely ruin the game totally irregardless of circumstance.

It's not an Era thing. It's not a BL thing. It's absolutely everywhere. And it has been so for a very long time.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Yeah for the time being I'll go back to Monster Hunter. Way more balanced and I don't have to fear the shit I grinded for for hours on end will be utterly useless the next day. I get that some stuff is too powerful, but the nerfs to Flakker and Hex are so ridiculius they get borderline unplayable, and the buffs feel like they just slap random percentages on random weapons.
 

Talonluck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
448
Gilbert, Arizona
Patch is fine so far, didn't really use the weapons nerfed except lucians call which feels fine. It was definitely too accurate given its a minigun.

Love the boosters auto picking up. Huge qol there.

I do feel for those who spent so much time on the nerfed guns. Whish they'd adopt a buff not need policy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,981
Player retention. If you're already melting bosses in 5 seconds after a month, how quickly do you think people will be bored?

You could always not nerf the guns and make the bosses harder, but what happens to people that can't melt the bosses beforehand?

It's always a tricky thing to manage, it's just made worse by Gearbox obviously not checking some gear properly before release.
Exactly. And the point is driven home by the fact that it's relatively cheap to respec your character. The game encourages experimentation and that's a big strength imo, don't make the game about killing one NPC in the endgame over and over
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
They are nerfing the broken weapons...
Lyuda, crossroad and cutsman are still god tier. Hex was bugged and not working as should.
Only exception is flakker, but it's still a good option on moze build.

But why? There's no progression. There's no competitive element. There's nothing to balance for until dlc arrives. The loot space situation is so bad people have probably only really been holding onto stuff that's been nerfed into the fucking ground.

Borderlands 3 is a worse, less fun game than it was at launch. Nerfing drop rates, exp, weapons, and skills repeatedly doesn't make anything about the game better in this case.

Nerfs are an essential part of game balance. You can't buff stuff all the time without severely affecting game balance/philosophy. If your initial balance pass left so much broken shit, rebalancing everything up to that broken shit is going to end disastrously. Nerfs are often good. The nerfs in Borderlands 3 since launch have done nothing to make the game better.

More than anything, it just feels like they're scrambling to try to artificially slow players to prevent them from realizing there's nothing to do once they beat the game, hit the level cap, and pick up a few good guns. "Gotta stop this farming!" It seems Gearbox learned at least one thing from Bungie.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
29,019
I hope the patch takes a while longer. I just started using the offline loot tink farm. Just shoot the backpack of a frozen hoarder for as long as you want and all the world drops outside of legendary class mods are yours eventually.
Damn, lol.

I just realized the other day they just run around dropping money. I was about to fight Mouth Piece and was wondering where all this money came from.
 

Jahranimo

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,027
Anyone see a difference with the pets' survivability? Probably still shit is what I'm expecting.
 

jinkx

Member
Sep 11, 2019
310
Ok, I finally finished the game and I liked the ending (more than Borderlands 2). Final boss is pretty fun

Lilith is such a badass, love her so much

Props to gearbox on nailing LGBT representation too

Now, to TVHM!
 
Oct 28, 2017
206
Brisbane, Australia
I hate the severe nerfs. Why not let the people enjoy their OP fun. It's not like it's ruining the fun of others.

Everyone i know is going to be playing offline only now because of them, making my co-op sessions become less and less :(

Honestly, i love spamming the shit out of Hex grenades. I don't do it because it makes the game easier...but i love just melting fuckers that way. I think Iron Bear is fucking useless in that department, so let me have my fun my way :P

EDIT: Also...give me more fucking bank slots!!!!!
 

Oracle

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,932
I'm still early in the game but any tips on weapon management ? Should I consistently rock the top 3 or 4 that have the highest score and sell the rest ? Keep doing that until I get good legendaries ?
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,279
Off the stream:
More bank space on the way
Dedicated loot drops
Next week's event greatly boosts anointed drop rate
Mayhem modifier adjustments; lesser gun damage penalties and far lower bullet reflect chance
No huge balance passes for awhile
Hinted at either being able to get into iron bear more frequently or having a reason to go into iron bear more frequently
Hinted at some kind of damage resistance coming to pets along with damage scaling
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Off the stream:
More bank space on the way
Dedicated loot drops
Next week's event greatly boosts anointed drop rate
Mayhem modifier adjustments; lesser gun damage penalties and far lower bullet reflect chance
No huge balance passes for awhile
Hinted at either being able to get into iron bear more frequently or having a reason to go into iron bear more frequently
Hinted at some kind of damage resistance coming to pets along with damage scaling
Dope

No nerf to Maliwan heavies or anointed militants along with no changes to proving ground rewards is really disappointing but the rest are needed.
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,224
Off the stream:
More bank space on the way
Dedicated loot drops
Next week's event greatly boosts anointed drop rate
Mayhem modifier adjustments; lesser gun damage penalties and far lower bullet reflect chance
No huge balance passes for awhile
Hinted at either being able to get into iron bear more frequently or having a reason to go into iron bear more frequently
Hinted at some kind of damage resistance coming to pets along with damage scaling

They need to deliver on all of these. The game needs every one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Off the stream:
More bank space on the way
Dedicated loot drops
Next week's event greatly boosts anointed drop rate
Mayhem modifier adjustments; lesser gun damage penalties and far lower bullet reflect chance
No huge balance passes for awhile
Hinted at either being able to get into iron bear more frequently or having a reason to go into iron bear more frequently
Hinted at some kind of damage resistance coming to pets along with damage scaling

Guess I'll be farming my thumbs off next week. Need the bank space. Like 200 minimum. I'd like to drop these mules.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,279
The way they talked about storage makes me wonder if they do something stupid like store guns in a JSON file instead of a proper sql database
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
Off the stream:
More bank space on the way
Dedicated loot drops
Next week's event greatly boosts anointed drop rate
Mayhem modifier adjustments; lesser gun damage penalties and far lower bullet reflect chance
No huge balance passes for awhile
Hinted at either being able to get into iron bear more frequently or having a reason to go into iron bear more frequently
Hinted at some kind of damage resistance coming to pets along with damage scaling

Bank space is absolutely essential and has to be the first priority. If I can only hold a handful of items at a time, what's the point in playing a loot game? Hoping they pull off an actual improvement and not some garbage like 75 loot slots.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,146

That's a pretty nice QOL change, but I must admit I love the lottery aspect to a lot of these world drops. During a single day's playthrough I got the following legendaries:

2 Hellwalker shotguns
The Butcher shotgun
2 Flakker shotguns
Hex grenade
Face Puncher shotgun
Handsome Jackhammer SMG
Crossroads SMG
Bloodletter class mod
2 Rowan's Call assault rifles
Devil's Foursum pistol
Hornet pistol

Among others that I never tried. Most of those were world drops, so it felt like I hit the jackpot.

Which, on a related note, I was really excited to try the Face Puncher shotgun on my melee-specced Siren...but, it was pretty underwhelming. I don't think the thing can get critical hits, so that severely limits the thing's ability and appeal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
That's a pretty nice QOL change, but I must admit I love the lottery aspect to a lot of these world drops. During a single day's playthrough I got the following legendaries:

2 Hellwalker shotguns
The Butcher shotgun
2 Flakker shotguns
Hex grenade
Face Puncher shotgun
Handsome Jackhammer SMG
Crossroads SMG
Bloodletter class mod
2 Rowan's Call assault rifles
Devil's Foursum pistol
Hornet pistol

Among others that I never tried. Most of those were world drops, so it felt like I hit the jackpot.

Which, on a related note, I was really excited to try the Face Puncher shotgun on my melee-specced Siren...but, it was pretty underwhelming. I don't think the thing can get critical hits, so that severely limits the thing's ability and appeal.

You sure about this? I have a couple that I haven't used yet, but I've read it's excellent for Amara melee builds. And it hasn't been nerfed at all so I don't know what eould change.
 

Gero

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,250
Off the stream:
More bank space on the way
Dedicated loot drops
Next week's event greatly boosts anointed drop rate
Mayhem modifier adjustments; lesser gun damage penalties and far lower bullet reflect chance
No huge balance passes for awhile
Hinted at either being able to get into iron bear more frequently or having a reason to go into iron bear more frequently
Hinted at some kind of damage resistance coming to pets along with damage scaling

Nothing about the big patch/performance?
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,382
The last two weeks at work have been so brutal that I've barely had time to play. When I get a play session in, it's usually just enough time for one story mission. I feel so behind. I'm around level 35 now and just finished Blood Drive. I miss being able to binge.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,146
You sure about this? I have a couple that I haven't used yet, but I've read it's excellent for Amara melee builds. And it hasn't been nerfed at all so I don't know what eould change.

The gun doesn't crit, but it does essentially make your melee attacks ranged. It works well for Amara melee builds, but right now I'm finding the Hellwalker to be better. Admittedly, I'm not 100% built for melee on my Amara. I've got the +melee damage skills(+350% melee damage via skills) but I don't have much +melee damage gear. If I was fully stocked with +melee damage gear, I'd probably find the Face Puncher to be better than the Hellwalker, but for right now the Hellwalker is serving me better.
 
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