The black people are telling you where you are going wrong
fucking stop
Brad Bird gives tone deaf response on why we never see Frozone’s wife in the Incredibles
- Thread starter RastaMentality
- Start date
fucking stop
Damn
Who knew that reading is fucking fundamental
I ain't tryna be aggressive towards you, just the other motherfuckers who don't read
no, we're the real racists. don't you see?!
We clearly need to put away our picket fences and boycotts that we so obviously had ready because muhfuckas keep reacting as if we said death to Pixar
Nobodies told me though. Why are you getting aggressive? Because you are making something out of nothing?
Where did the creator specifically say she was a black woman? He didn't. You're all stereotyping what a black woman sounds like so no. You fucking stop.
OP
OP
if someone acknowledges an existing stereotype, they're the ones stereotyping? what?
I already linked you to a quote from Brad Bird that I posted earlier but I guess you don't want to click a link?
Why would he segue from talking about Frozone's wife to mentioning that Frozone was the first black walk-around character at Disneyland if she isn't black?
this is some reaching ass shit
Is this seriously the best example she could find to make this tweet?
No one is buying your "concern" about a black woman. Like Lotus wrote "transparent".
Who's more outraged?
The people posting for most of these 9 pages trying to elaborate on their points?
Or the people who are bending over backwards to make this about folks being outraged?
The world may never know.
The people posting for most of these 9 pages trying to elaborate on their points?
Or the people who are bending over backwards to make this about folks being outraged?
The world may never know.
Yeah honestly I thought the first few pages were going alright but things took a really stupid turn
The whole point is to get rid of the harmful stereotypes.
People using these harmful stereotypes to back up and use as evidemce, claims of racially motivated things are just strengthening the harmfulnes of said stereotypes instead of combatting it.
Like I said. Speaking with a sassy voice is not exclusive to black women and black people voice non black characters all the time.
With no proof there's no argument to be made. Instead posters don't come back with valid arguments. Instead they come back with agressive posts and sarcastic posts instead of engaging in a valid discussion.
It honestly annoys me. Why can't there be a discussion without resorting to intellectually dishonest talking points? Folks can disagree and discuss without resorting to that.
I've never seen her as black, always seen her as ethnic, but not black
some sort of Mediterranean or some shit
Because she's Frozones wife and that was the natural evolution of the conversation.
Your post is reaching.
Same...
Basically where I'm at
enlighten us as to what kind of representation he could be talking about
Well, that's why people are bringing it up. The only female black character being relegated to a joke.
READ. THE. THREAD.
Example:
I noticed you're in the UK, Venom. Maybe things aren't the same there. But in the US this is very much a stereotype that becomes problematic when it's the only form of representation black women get in these movies.
fried chicken and watermelon aren't exclusive either fam.
His quote isn't a conversation. It's an answer to a question about whether or not Honey will be seen in the movie. There is no logical reason for him to mention that Frozone is the first black walk-around character at Disneyland if he didn't create Honey to also be black. He made that statement very specifically because it wouldn't apply to Honey if she wasn't black. There were other PoC walk-around characters at Disneyland before Frozone. They just weren't black.
There's nothing reaching about my post or the quote.
Posts like these are the reason we can't have a proper discussion about it.
What the fuck.
He's not the one saying that though. Thats the author. Did you even read what you quoted?
We've been having a proper discussion
You have come into this conversation wrong, been told you are wrong, by multiple people, and continue to not understand why
Them yelling at each other is the entire point of the scene. Unless Frozone's disorganization was important character development. It's the juxtaposition of a super hero having a domestic moment about his costume. They are both irritated, that's the joke.
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. LOL .You can't pull color on shit this trivial. Considering the argument is over whether people are reading too much into it.
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. LOL .You can't pull color on shit this trivial. Considering the argument is over whether people are reading too much into it.
Remember to link back to this thread the next time we have a race topic, y'all.
Mirage seemed Eastern European to me.
You're not trying to have any type of discussion here. You think everyone should agree with what you believe and questioning your motivation when discussing black women is perfectly valid.
Excluding this discussion, when have you ever defended black women against stereotyping/racism?
But you also have other women of different colour speaking like that both in the UK and USA. Thats my whole fucking point. If non black people speak like that as well, how can people she is definitely a black character using only that as evidence.
thanks for explaining the joke. none of us were able to grasp on why it was funny. too bad it's completely aside the point
She was voiced by Elizabeth Pena(RIP) so I always kinda assumed she was Hispanic.
What the fuck? I'm the only one trying to actually have a disussion about if we are 100% sure the character is black. There's no proof.
Also I work in HR for Amazon by day and I am a Door Supervisor by night so I come across drunken racism on a near nightly basis and yes I do defend it every single time because racism is something that should be fucking stamped out.
But to stamp it out people need to actually go after people commuting it. Not reach with threads like these for no reason.
Take a step back from this specific topic and think about stereotypes. Stereotypes of all manner. About men. Women. Different races and cultures. Sub-cultures. Now how many of those steroetypes are exclusive to just that one type of person? None of them.
Stereotypes do not need to be exclusive to be stereotypes. That's not how they are qualified.
So would it be racist if we saw a small scene of her and she's white while having that voice? If anything, I'd think that would be pretty progressive.
Actually, I thought science has debunked that whole "white voice, black voice" thing and it's almost entirely regional rather than biological. I feel like characters that have "mismatched voices" would help acceptance and stop shit like "hey, you talk white." Could also destigmatize accent jokes, which is always a plus.
What a dumb response. If something isn't exclusive to one particular subject, how can one then use that non exclusive evidence to say something is definitive in regards to subject it isn't exclusive to?
How often are those women of different color who speak like that portrayed in movies?
How often are women who speak like that portrayed as black women in movies?
That's the thing about stereotypes. Where I grew up, people are gonna see a black man having an argument with his off-screen sassy wife who's using AAVE and they're going to assume she's a black woman, and apply whatever image they have for that stereotype to her. And since there isn't enough representation of black women in our media, it's going to reinforce those stereotypes because there's nothing else to balance it out.
It doesn't matter if she's hypothetically not black. Doesn't matter if it's intentional. Doesn't matter if the scene is funny. What I just described is still going to happen.
And people are gonna feel certain ways about that.
Also, people are responding to you the way they are because they are trying to express how this affects them based on their lived experiences, and you seem to be doing everything in your power to dismiss what they're saying, and then complaining about their tone.
Example:
You're right, you're the only one having this discussion. Everyone else is having a different discussion, and you keep jumping into it to make it about this character's hypothetical skin color.
I have never seen you in any threads that have to do with race/racism, yet this is the one you choose to participate in?
People finding a stereotype of the "sassy black woman" problematic is your big issue?
Transparent.
You think that Frozone's wife isn't black? The character is voiced by a black woman and she's married to a black man, you really think Pixar envisioned her as a some other race? You're the one reaching here.
I'm not trying to say they are.
I'm trying to say this.
If a stereotype isn't exclusive to something, how can people then try to use that said stereotype as evidence for the particular thing it's not exclusive to?
Basically
Stereotype: Sassy black woman, said stereotype isn't exclusive to black women because people of other colour use a sassy voice also.
Character: sounds like a sassy woman.
People: That's racist! Even though a sassy voice has already been established not to be exclusive to black women.
Do you understand what I mean? There's no evidence whatsoever.
if anyone was in doubt before, you shouldn't have any after that reply.
Not at all, her voice tone is the crux of this conversion. Some people are try to sell it's due to racial stereotyping versus being in tone with the joke. So it appears to me some people seem to be oblivious to that connection.
Oh...disliking pervasive black stereotypes being used onscreen for comedy is a whoooooollllleeee other thing.
That's not what this thread is about (sorry, I didn't read the entire thread so I missed what people's stances were and that it went a whole other way)
His reason for not having the wife on screen is sound (and not racially motivated)
I can understand why people get offended when they watch black produced/acted tv shows in the 90's/2000's or watch Madea movies today...or when white people lean into those pervasive stereotypes.
I mean, it easily could have been a stereotypical white nagging, overbearing wife (think of Mrs Kravitz from Bewitched)...there are many variations of this throughout the decade.
This type of black woman/gf/wife character is even played up by black women themselves on reality shows...I'm afraid it's not going away. Especially when black producers/directors/writers/actors themselves see the comedy in this type of character and use it for comedy in their work
Eh, I mean, I sort of agree the gag works better without her appearing on screen? I guess he could have worded his response a little more tactfully though.
The threads I participate in are neither here nor there and have NOTHING to do with you.
Also so you're trying to say black actors don't voice people of other skin colour, black people only marry black people and that people reinforcing harmful stereotypes Is somehow a good thing but yet I'm the one reaching?
Ok, time for me to go bed.
"If you don't agree with my opinion then you clearly don't want to have a proper discussion."
As Lotus and I stated, transparent.
