Red white and blue
you know, like the colour of the French fla- wait, no...
Anyhoo, greetings, fellow traitors and saboteurs.
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BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
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Red white and blue
you know, like the colour of the French fla- wait, no...
Anyhoo, greetings, fellow traitors and saboteurs.
One of the things you quickly learn with history is never to underestimate what a dumbass with a lot of power can do.
OP
OP
I genuinely hope so. As violently pro-remain as I am, I don't want this thread to just be an echo chamber if it can be helped.
That said, I'm sure I and others would continue to challenge the accuracy some of the more generous claims made my pro-leavers if they're like they were last time around.
Assuming most of the rest of you are Brits living in Britain, has Brexit made you re-evaluate where you plan to live in the future. If so how far along are your plans?
I moved to Germany 6 years ago and couldn't be happier with that decision.
I moved to Germany 6 years ago and couldn't be happier with that decision.
I was always open to moving abroad without having any firm plan to, and I'm probably still in the same boat.
Lived abroad a few years ago and if everything goes really bad that is an option, but we like being near our grandparents - we want our children to know them as people, not randoms they might see once a year, as a couple on both sides can't really travel anymore.
HM:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/30/apple-pay-back-taxes-eu-ruling-ireland-state-aid
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/04/amazon-eu-tax-irish-government-apple
Seems like to me the EU isn't always pro-corporations? Not sure what you're referring to.
I voted remain, but I am now firmly of the opinion we are leaving, so stop moaning, or remoaning ( I know cheesy) and lets get on with it
OP
OP
Not necessarily Brexit-specific, but do you think a modern democracy should discount the possibility of changing one's mind, disagreeing, protesting, etc? Surely it's the epitome of folly to follow through with something you know to be damaging just because you said you would?
If it were so black and white, surely the EU membership debate should have been put to bed forever when we signed up in the 70s? When would be an acceptable time to revisit the subject if/when we do leave?
Never get on a sinking ship with Olivomer, he will burn the lifeboats and open the hatches. :D
It has honestly made me consider living in Ireland, ideally before we're out and I lose my rights as an EU citizen (hoping Brits abroad will be allowed to stay). Unfortunately that means I have only a year and a half to build up a CV that will be attractive enough that I might get hired in a Sector (Museums) that doesn't really have the widest array of job openings, and I've only recently finished my Uni course. Ireland because it'd probably be the easiest EU nation for me to adjust to, which given my autism and limited palette (dear god do my tastebuds suck), is a major consideration for me.
I voted remain, and I am a firm believer of still fighting for our EU membership. Currently it looks like we are on track for a no deal Brexit, I don't even want to imagine what that would do to our economy.
Very good points, and you are of course correct, there should be in normal circumstances all of the above, I am just sick of it, there are so many issues in our society that are now not getting any traction as Brexit is all encompassing, infact it made news the other day when at PMQ the commentator noted it took 12 mins before Brexit was raised, I want it sorted so. Education, NHS etc start gettting the main focus again
I was living in Britain 3 months ago. I'm now living in Spain.
That's the bit that terrifies me - we've somehow gone from a 52% win for Leave - where nobody really knew what they were voting for - to a head on crash scenario that I can't believe anyone with much common sense wants. All because of this 'will of the people' being used to powergrab.
I honestly feel that there won't be a no deal scenario, firstly I don't see that getting through Parliament and secondly the tories are not that stupid
One would hope anyway
Nothing - if it happens the government will collapse before we leave. The Tories need a deal as badly as they claim the EU wants one.
How do you pay the bills for public services if these clowns crash the country to save the Tory party and their careers.
I hoped we wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EU, but there we go.
I do think there will be a last minute fudge of a deal, but this just makes all our ministers look idiotic beyond belief.
This, and I am glad huw posted, as this reminded me, The Lib Dem's performance at the elections showed that the country as a whole does not have a huge appetite for a second referendum... other issues aside they were the party of no Brexit and it had little to no affect on their performance
People know they are fucking useless, that is why they are trailing behind a man prepared to spend 200 billion on missiles that he will lock away.
I feel like I'm living with a bunch of kamikaze pilots in the UK.
You're presuming a lot here but none of us knows what the future holds, we'll just have to see it play out. One thing I guarantee that would fix all this is to cancel Brexit, problem solved.
To follow from earlier; I'm happy to crack eggs and talk shop with a leaver, it's just particularly difficult to do so online
One thing that struck me just now was how brexit compares to the Iraq war, an odd comparison perhaps and maybe one already made in the other place. I see these as two phenomena that came about with popular support and disdain in seemingly equal measure. At some point the Iraq war fell out of public favour and forever dented that labour government's reputation, seemingly because people realised they weren't necessarily getting what they wanted, or what they had been told, and something far uglier had come about instead.
It seems very difficult to find someone who would argue strongly for the Iraq war nowadays, will the same be true of brexit?
One thing that struck me just now was how brexit compares to the Iraq war, an odd comparison perhaps and maybe one already made in the other place. I see these as two phenomena that came about with popular support and disdain in seemingly equal measure. At some point the Iraq war fell out of public favour and forever dented that labour government's reputation, seemingly because people realised they weren't necessarily getting what they wanted, or what they had been told, and something far uglier had come about instead.
It seems very difficult to find someone who would argue strongly for the Iraq war nowadays, will the same be true of brexit?
The tories are more than capable to manage a crisis into a decades long recession before throwing the towel in. I fear you assume far too much good faith in them.
I think the Iraq war analogy is a good one. Despite the protests, it did have popular support at the time, and by a higher margin than Brexit. Although I favoured the diplomatic/UN/weapons inspector route, I didn't think things could get much worse than the situation with Saddam - so I didn't vigorously oppose the war.
Public opinion only changed when we realised what a mess it was and how we had no plan beyond "get rid of Saddam".
Most people assumed there was some sort of plan for post-Saddam and money to pay for rebuilding Iraq - but it turned out that no-one had thought that far ahead. It turned out that giving people the right to vote doesn't automatically provide a workable solution when the population is fundamentally split.
I think anti-Brexit opinion will rise as the impacts are felt. There's a limit to how far the public will accept "It's the EU's fault" just like there was a limit to "But Saddam was a really evil man".
I expect a lot of leavers will invent some alternative Brexit that might've worked, just like some people think there's a way we could've won the Iraq war without fucking up the country. But no-one will support the Brexit we get and May/Boris/Fox/Davis/Gove will have Blair-like reputation damage.
Public opinion only changed when we realised what a mess it was and how we had no plan beyond "get rid of Saddam".
Most people assumed there was some sort of plan for post-Saddam and money to pay for rebuilding Iraq - but it turned out that no-one had thought that far ahead. It turned out that giving people the right to vote doesn't automatically provide a workable solution when the population is fundamentally split.
I think anti-Brexit opinion will rise as the impacts are felt. There's a limit to how far the public will accept "It's the EU's fault" just like there was a limit to "But Saddam was a really evil man".
I expect a lot of leavers will invent some alternative Brexit that might've worked, just like some people think there's a way we could've won the Iraq war without fucking up the country. But no-one will support the Brexit we get and May/Boris/Fox/Davis/Gove will have Blair-like reputation damage.
Interestingly, the headline for Laurie Penny's article in the NewStatesman this week is "We are governed by Peter Pans who refuse to do the adult thing - look after the next generation"
According to polls 30%~ of the population will never change their mind no matter how bad things get, they think leaving is worth any cost. We just need enough people from the remaining 20%~ of the population to come to terms that what they voted for is undeliverable and that they were lied to. If remain can inch its way to 60% (also aided by more young people coming of voting age!) politicians won't be able to ignore that.
We will allow you to recall your Article 50 notification.
Welcome back to the family, you will now however loose all your previous opt outs and will have to join the Euro, I hope you understand!
I still don't have to speak French though, right?
I've said this before, but stuff like this should be taken with a grain of salt. "Is leaving the EU worth losing £100 a week to you?" is a lot less immediate than "We've left the EU, give me that £100 you said you'd happily give up." Essentially, I'm saying a lot of those people are all talk and no trousers.
I've said this before, but stuff like this should be taken with a grain of salt. "Is leaving the EU worth losing £100 a week to you?" is a lot less immediate than "We've left the EU, give me that £100 you said you'd happily give up." Essentially, I'm saying a lot of those people are all talk and no trousers.
Nein, das ist natuerlich quatsch. Deutsch wird jetzt die primaere Amtssprache, niemand wird gezwungen Franzoesisch zu sprechen.
Judging by my cousins 5 years of German lessons in the UK, language training is rather rubbish....
Oh, we're shocking at it. The whole 'everyone speaks English' attitude is very noticeable in every school I've taught in. I usually get the 'I don't believe in God, so why do I need Religious Studies' instead
The Lib Dem performance != the performance of the Remain voting bloc.
Quite a lot of voting analysis has come out after the election and there's a reasonable amount of literature to to dictate that it was the Remain/Brexit split that blocked May from getting a majority and contributed to Corbyn's rise.
The LDs faced a lot of issues at the election, but chiefly the campaign failed to address the wave of support for Corbyn as the anti-Tory/anti-Brexit force, the latter of which he was happy to take even if Labour are not really that anti-Brexit, and the campaign also managed to get itself tangled in an idiotic debate surrounding Farron and LGBT topics, which Farron and the party as a whole should have handled better.
It's the sort of defence that Mogg likes making but it's grossly simplistic.
At the end of the day both the two main parties and the papers framed the question as May vs Corbyn, not about Brexit. Folks voted on that basis, with a side of Remainers and Leavers being far more willing to back Corbyn and May respectively.
Indeed if you look at the clamour for a referendum on the final deal it's gotten stronger since the election (see: the recent Yougov question on the topic) - so if anything there's more of a demand now than there was prior.
A referendum on the final deal (or a general election with a party winning a majority based on exiting from Brexit) is the route to us not leaving Europe - I think the public is growing warmer toward the idea of not leaving, and thus the natural way of doing that will also gain in support.
Brace yourselves, I think Quiche will be on the next wave in an hour or two's time.
If you use the search function at the top searching by member brings up a list and their avatar he's there.
It's pretty nifty.
OP
OP
Sorry to get sentimental, but I just wanted to say it's great to see so many familiar faces back together again. Regardless of whether or not we agree or disagree on the glorious mess of taking back control, it's good to have the gang back together again.
It's our solemn duty to huddle together, moaning about the state of the world and bickering with each other from time to time. It's the right thing to do. It's the British thing to do.
It's our solemn duty to huddle together, moaning about the state of the world and bickering with each other from time to time. It's the right thing to do. It's the British thing to do.
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