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Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Yeah that post is pretty sus, NGL. I've seen comments on Reddit and Twitter from chuds raging about this that are worded almost verbatim as the post you quoted.

Anyone with any knowledge of prior GG games will know that 'grooming' was never part of Bridget's backstory and it's incredibly sus that this is only now being brought up as a 'concern' following her becoming trans.
One thing people forget is Bridget was raised as a girl because the town would have probably killed or exiled her at a young age had they knew her parents gave birth to two same sex twins.

It wasn't done because her parents wanted a daughter. For all we know they treated her as a boy when she was home.
I've said as much previously but Bridget's existing backstory is both something that barely had any weight even when it was written 20 years ago (it literally amounted to "haha Johnny hit on a boy") and something that still influences writing Bridget as questioning their gender identity.

Bridget is raised to present female from birth to avoid being killed and in XX is motivated by proving herself as a strong, ideal man who will disspell her hometown's superstitions... while still wearing her nun habit. Come Strive we learn that she has fulfilled these ambitions and become a world-renowned bounty hunter, but still lacks the fulfillment she's been seeking since she first appeared... and she still wears her nun habit.

Bridget's story is one of seeking self-actualization, she just can't find that because the only thing she 100% definitely knows is that self-actualization can't be found by presenting as female, except fulfilling all her other ambitions led her to the same emptiness. If anything, what her backstory influences now is that being forced to crossdress as a child made accepting her gender identity more of a struggle, because identifying as a woman is what she was running away from.

I'm a cis man and I don't want to speak above my station, but I feel like this is really only questionable on the broadest, most surface level possible, because that most surface level is all that existed when Bridget's backstory amounted to a fighting game bio circa 2002. More importantly, it can't be fucking grooming if in the same breath Bridget is bad because ArcSys is shoving SJW politics in their game and bending over for woke Americans.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
What words should I use instead?
For starters 'transgenderism' isn't the term (neither is 'transgendered,' for completeness' sake) to be used, it's just 'trans' and 'transgender.'

You also want to avoid 'grooming,' as a comment, since its use when it comes to queer discussions is to go "innocent child perverted by gay pedophiles." Bridget hasn't been influenced by her parents her entire time she's been in on-screen in Guilty Gear (IIRC she wasn't even raised by them either, but at a church), so we're not viewing a character being forced by their parents to present as female, especially since they themselves didn't want for their AMAB child to crossdress as a result of superstition, one they defied to save Bridget's life.

I don't necessarily know if you're speaking in good faith or not, but I feel like if you are then I can at least take a chance to explain things rather than let this slide and let you keep on saying it. We're taught horrible bullshit so long that it's hard to recognize it's worth questioning, the reason I'm taking the time to do this is because I can earnestly believe someone can buy into right wing talking points completely through cultural osmosis, but the bottom line is that you're hearing why it's wrong and what you can to do avoid contributing to that wrong, and it's up to you if you'll keep going.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
Going straight from transphobic dogwhistles to just asking questions is totally not suspect at all
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
14,047

anime-hoodie.gif
 

Hamlock

Banned
Oct 7, 2021
42
For starters 'transgenderism' isn't the term (neither is 'transgendered,' for completeness' sake) to be used, it's just 'trans' and 'transgender.'

You also want to avoid 'grooming,' as a comment, since its use when it comes to queer discussions is to go "innocent child perverted by gay pedophiles." Bridget hasn't been influenced by her parents her entire time she's been in on-screen in Guilty Gear (IIRC she wasn't even raised by them either, but at a church), so we're not viewing a character being forced by their parents to present as female, especially since they themselves didn't want for their AMAB child to crossdress as a result of superstition, one they defied to save Bridget's life.

I don't necessarily know if you're speaking in good faith or not, but I feel like if you are then I can at least take a chance to explain things rather than let this slide and let you keep on saying it. We're taught horrible bullshit so long that it's hard to recognize it's worth questioning, the reason I'm taking the time to do this is because I can earnestly believe someone can buy into right wing talking points completely through cultural osmosis, but the bottom line is that you're hearing why it's wrong and what you can to do avoid contributing to that wrong, and it's up to you if you'll keep going.
Thank you, I just found some trans people outside of ResetEra complaining about Bridget transitioning and what it implies, but it's clear that there are other perspectives to this as well.
 

Melpomene

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 9, 2019
18,330
Bridget disproving the village superstition and earning the right to live her life on her terms very much includes if those terms happen to involve independently deciding to identify as female. I feel like squaring the current situation with her backstory is nowhere near the arduous task some people seem to want it to be. If anything it's an additional fuck you to that same prescriptivism.
 

cairngorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
651
This is very cute and I really like Bridget redesign. I remember when I played XX as a kid she inspired me to get yoyos
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,571
Florida
r/kappa has always been very transphobic but they went full mask off for this

1 second looking at it and im surprised that subreddit is allowed to stay open.

GGST reads like a much more earnestly written character. XX used to have upskirt win poses in a game that was full already of fetishistic-tropey content, worse when Bridget was almost assuredly juvenile and gamers were using slurs to describe their conflicted attraction to this character. Not that Strive is the most mature game (see: everyone sweating over Jack-o pose, ignoring that the characters wacky trick or treat persona is due to having a child's mind), but there's a world of difference coming from XX.

Took a peek, the banner itself makes me feel like this is just a straight up chud subreddit and nothing else. Am I wrong?

Funny enough it's from when porn was explicitly allowed. I remember back in around 2013/2014 when they actually sponsored cool players like Poongko and it was more of a shitpost/meme fgc reddit. Honestly the porn ban, the departure of a lot of the sponsor organizers like Dr. Mike, and just the general negativity about fighting games in general (SFV, Tekken 7, Strive) basically made it a shadow of its former self.

The state of r/kappa doesn't surprise me at all. Honestly, they've always been like this, any community that prides itself for "pushing the limits with edgy humor/memes" is basically guaranteed to end up like this because they open the door to bigots.
 

Legacy

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,704
Bridget is cool, the trans thing makes sense too.

My mind was blown (eons ago GG X2 on the og Xbox) when I found out Bridget was a he.
 

Rackham

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,532
Don't know much about Guilty Gear. Why is she dancing during her idle? Does she have a music motif? Music and yoyos?
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,324
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Bridget is cool, the trans thing makes sense too.

My mind was blown (eons ago GG X2 on the og Xbox) when I found out Bridget was a he.
You mean "she." Active pronouns are retroactive for trans people, even fictional.
I highly doubt it. You've probably found some sock puppets.
There are definitely sock puppets on Twitter but never discount Hanlon's razor on social media. With the right actively propagating the notion that trans youth are victims of "grooming" one can't discount "well intentioned" people from not using their critical thinking skills.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Honestly seeing how wholesome and inclusive Guilty Gear is makes me want to give it a try even though I'm bad at 2D fighters. I guess there's no crossplay so Playstation would be preferred over PC for the player-count?
 

Nama

A Big Deal
Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,344
Honestly seeing how wholesome and inclusive Guilty Gear is makes me want to give it a try even though I'm bad at 2D fighters. I guess there's no crossplay so Playstation would be preferred over PC for the player-count?
GG scews towards PC actually but crossplay is coming mid September so pick up what you feel most comfortable with. Or on sale believe PC is on sale atm.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,457
Honestly seeing how wholesome and inclusive Guilty Gear is makes me want to give it a try even though I'm bad at 2D fighters. I guess there's no crossplay so Playstation would be preferred over PC for the player-count?
But that's the secret chief, we're all bad at the game.

If you pull the trigger and have questions, come over to the OT, we'll help you out/direct you to relevant online resources.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,545
I think feminine guys are cool overall so always liked Bridgets old identity, but making her trans is cool too. I wonder if it's going to be the same in the JP dub or if this is a localisation change (a good one too!)
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
I think feminine guys are cool overall so always liked Bridgets old identity, but making her trans is cool too. I wonder if it's going to be the same in the JP dub or if this is a localisation change (a good one too!)

If you're curious about the Japanese script, I posted about it here:

Someone arcade uploaded the scenes in Japanese.


- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


When Goldlewis calls Bridget something like "princess" (ojou-chan), she responds with "I'm... a boy" (Uchi wa otoko desu).

She doesn't use the masculine "boku" as was used in XX. Instead, she uses "uchi", which is a feminine pronoun. This might be why Goldlewis says that she doesn't seem sure, because in the Japanese text, she's showcasing her femininity when she claims she's a boy.

At the end, she tells Goldlewis that it's alright to call her "ojou-chan".

So I think the intention is pretty clearly that Bridget is meant to be understood at female.
Relevant screenshots from the Japanese arcade mode, taken from that YouTube video.


screenshotmifuh.png

screenshot1xycf1.png

screenshot2jbivo.png



The first one can't be cleanly translated but it shows Bridget using a feminine pronoun. It's written in katakana despite not being a foreign word which might be meant to emphasize it - it's used similarly to italics at times.


For the second and third, a fairly literal translation would be:

「あぁ 元気でな お嬢ちゃん いや お坊さんか?」 "Ah, be healthy, young lady. No, young lad?"
「お嬢ちゃん でいいですよ」 "Lady is good!"


The Japanese is clear too, I think. Goldlewis gives Bridget a choice of whether she'd like to be called a girl or a boy. She chooses to be called a girl.
One mistake that I made is that Bridget doesn't consistently use masculine pronouns in XX, she uses the same feminine pronoun that she uses in Strive much of the time. But she uses the masculine pronoun when she's asserting her masculinity to I-no in the beginning of her story mode in #Reload, and she doesn't when she's doing the same with Goldlewis in the beginning of Strive's arcade mode.

The way that she says that she prefers to be "ojou-chan" is just a standard way of expressing a preference in Japanese.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,215
Honestly seeing how wholesome and inclusive Guilty Gear is makes me want to give it a try even though I'm bad at 2D fighters. I guess there's no crossplay so Playstation would be preferred over PC for the player-count?
Crossplay is coming. PC fanbase is larger I believe. Game is pretty fun to pick up and mess around with, at least in my limited experience.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,897
Pakistan
Honestly seeing how wholesome and inclusive Guilty Gear is makes me want to give it a try even though I'm bad at 2D fighters. I guess there's no crossplay so Playstation would be preferred over PC for the player-count?
There's gonna be a beta for Crossplay in Mid-September with the plan of having it included in the full game before the end of the year.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
GG scews towards PC actually but crossplay is coming mid September so pick up what you feel most comfortable with. Or on sale believe PC is on sale atm.

Crossplay is coming. PC fanbase is larger I believe. Game is pretty fun to pick up and mess around with, at least in my limited experience.

There's gonna be a beta for Crossplay in Mid-September with the plan of having it included in the full game before the end of the year.

Whoa so it does start to happen for fighting games, thanks for the heads-up that's awesome 🙂

But that's the secret chief, we're all bad at the game.

If you pull the trigger and have questions, come over to the OT, we'll help you out/direct you to relevant online resources.

Thanks for this 😊 The thing is, I'm bad at fighters in general yet I can always wing it at some levels in 3D but 2D fighters (sans Smash) are legit terrible for me. I played a bit of Blazblue before and I can handle Street Fighter at a basic level with Ryu or Ken but as soon as there's any comboing involved my brain and hands fall apart. That I feel is always easier in 3D fighters 😅
 

Trigger

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,948
Atlanta, GA
I'm all here for more diversity and inclusion. I might actually play the game now. lol I'm always tempted to support projects that give visibility to the queer community regardless of how much I might actually like the game.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,457
Bridget disproving the village superstition and earning the right to live her life on her terms very much includes if those terms happen to involve independently deciding to identify as female. I feel like squaring the current situation with her backstory is nowhere near the arduous task some people seem to want it to be. If anything it's an additional fuck you to that same prescriptivism.

It really isn't hard at all, but the people trying to use the lore as an argument here pretty clearly never cared about it before. Guilty Gear's story and characters very often covers the themes self realization and taking steps towards that all the time. These characters have never been meant to stay in one place, they've all evolved in the hopes of finding themselves in this world, and Bridget realizing and accepting she's trans is one of the most Guilty Gear thing that could have happened to her story.
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,604
I don't think people are trying to be actively malicious or anything, but please get rid of this notion that trans inclusivity is only a Western thing.
Trans people exist all over the world, and they receive support from all over the world.
It's not catering to Western sensibilities to include good trans representation in a game.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,571
Florida
It really isn't hard at all, but the people trying to use the lore as an argument here pretty clearly never cared about it before. Guilty Gear's story and characters very often covers the themes self realization and taking steps towards that all the time. These characters have never been meant to stay in one place, they've all evolved in the hopes of finding themselves in this world, and Bridget realizing and accepting she's trans is one of the most Guilty Gear thing that could have happened to her story.

The other elephant in the room that people are concern trolling over Bridget are intentionally avoiding acknowledging is Bridget was basically written as a gag in her first game. Her whole bounter hunting storyline in XX ended up with her:
  1. Getting tricked by I-No into trying to hunt the heroes instead.
  2. Giving up on hunting Dizzy and becoming friends with her instead.
  3. Traumatizing Johnny when he "learned the truth" after trying to hit on her.
And then the kicker is she didn't appear in another canon game again for 20 years.

I feel like the people specifically framing this new development as "throwing out Bridgets past strong lore" are fucking lying through their teeth. lol
 

OaklandKao

Member
Mar 21, 2022
2,913
I don't think people are trying to be actively malicious or anything, but please get rid of this notion that trans inclusivity is only a Western thing.
Trans people exist all over the world, and they receive support from all over the world.
It's not catering to Western sensibilities to include good trans representation in a game.
No, the Nichegamer market can't know that people in Japan aren't turboconservatives and aren't as hateful as they are!
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
I feel like the people specifically framing this new development as "throwing out Bridgets past strong lore" are fucking lying through their teeth. lol

The entire thing is bullshit trolling.
The whole """""""""""controversy"""""""""" comes from 4chan chuds both
1) hating trans people
2) loving their fetish bait

full stop. Any other excuse is just window dressing to make it seem like something legitimate.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,457
The other elephant in the room that people are concern trolling over Bridget are intentionally avoiding acknowledging is Bridget was basically written as a gag in her first game. Her whole bounter hunting storyline in XX ended up with her:
  1. Getting tricked by I-No into trying to hunt the heroes instead.
  2. Giving up on hunting Dizzy and becoming friends with her instead.
  3. Traumatizing Johnny when he "learned the truth" after trying to hit on her.
And then the kicker is she didn't appear in another canon game again for 20 years.

I feel like the people specifically framing this new development as "throwing out Bridgets past strong lore" are fucking lying through their teeth. lol

Yeah, GG has several characters that weren't very relevant in the grand scheme, and Bridget's story had very little going on.

But now I need my next season of the in game GG anime to give her the Xrd Robo-Ky treatment of gag-character to major player.
 

Grifter

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,582
I'm guessing your buddy didn't approve of the outcome of Bridget's character in Strive?

Yeah, sorry if details are incomplete. I had a redacted screenshot ready but didn't want to dump it here (and thought I might not've been being fair to his argument since I never played fighters for lore), but it ran the gamut of "placating the woke," shitting on representation, insisting it's a retcon.